By destabilizing the sphere network in "Zero Hour" the Delphic Expanse became normal space. Hence it is not some far unreachable place.
Let me reiterate, the Delphic Expanse no longer exists. It returned to being normal space. The Thermobaric clouds, the spatial anomalies, it's gone. The planets and species within that region of warped space are fine, but the "expanse" effect is gone. Maybe it should be referred to strictly as the Delphic Sector Block or something.
cant wait until we run out of xindi races to use. reminders of ENT make me uncomfortable.
of course it is weird we have all these ships of various races and we can't actually play as any of them. I mean they are federation/kdf/romulan officers according to the doff system
It's worse than that a little. The Xindi were explicitly shown in Surface Tension to be members of the Federation. So the first question is why the heck has it taken them so long to get their butts in gear since their interstellar government is at war? second why are they giving out gear to the Romulans and the Klingons too? Allies or not. We don't see Klingons in Atroxs. Even Starfleet aligned Romulans can't fly those.
And by that logic only Starfleet should actually get Xindi as playable. I'm not saying that as some the Federation gets everything thing, it's just they are a literal Federation race, it's only logical. As much as I want a Suliban on my Starfleet crew, I'd find it acceptable if they were Republic only...or at least released to the Republic first. Maybe Romulans should get Suliban for free while Starfleet has to pay for a C-store unlock or something. F*&^ it, just release it to the alien generator across the board.
Klingons also need a fresh species in the deck. Maybe they could pick up the Talarians. While their weaponry was substandard, they were cunning and a patriarchal warrior culture, something the Klingons could certainly appreciate.
"Rise like Lions after slumber, In unvanquishable number, Shake your chains to earth like dew, Which in sleep had fallen on you-Ye are many they are few"
An interesting list of things on offer. I must admit to being amused by the plasmatic biomatter weaponry... folks who've wearing the Enterprise-era flight suit and the largest of the engineer kit 'backpacks' are doubtless chuckling at these (leaving aside the color of the, ah, biomatter)...
Now that that's accomplished, the only way this game would be worth playing is if you make the elite ships in stf act like they have a sense of preservation and use boff skills intelligently. Maybe let the npc's use surgical strikes, ionic turbulence, viral torpedoes, or any of the other "nerfed" skills. I would keep playing just to see the tears.
If I recall correctly, Herald ships do in fact make use of some of those skills.
When comparing this to the previous BO-Double-Tap scenario, you have to factor in Cost of Opportunity. Superweapon Ingenuity's CoO is arguably far higher, as it requires using one of your Starship Trait slots - a more limited commodity than Boff seats.
As such, I can say with some confidence that this Trait is unlikely to be "fixed" or "nerfed," with the POSSIBLE exception of extending the lockout period a bit. Even that's not very likely.
How many Starship Traits actually enhance vaping?
How many of the above, if any, can perform any better than a double-tap BO?
... on top of EVERYTHING vapers already have?
And lastly... why? I thought the design mindset was to step away from vaping mechanics, as it was stated in the past by the devs.
When comparing this to the previous BO-Double-Tap scenario, you have to factor in Cost of Opportunity. Superweapon Ingenuity's CoO is arguably far higher, as it requires using one of your Starship Trait slots - a more limited commodity than Boff seats.
As such, I can say with some confidence that this Trait is unlikely to be "fixed" or "nerfed," with the POSSIBLE exception of extending the lockout period a bit. Even that's not very likely.
BO is a pvp skill, anything that can reliably create kills is priceless, transcending opportunity cost for the most part. when the goal is getting kills against single high value targets, what trait even competes with it?
it's not exactly appealing to PVE'ers because BO is pretty DPS neutral, on top of sharing a system cooldown with FAW. let the proc give them 3 or 4 BO1s to every target in range simultaneously, and there might be an balanced opportunity cost vs running FAW, wile keeping another trait slot in play.
we find ourselves here often, another strictly PVP reliant addition and we are left scratching our heads why. another 1 shot aid into a meta that has about 10 to many 1 shot aides, and is dead largely because of 1 shot aids. with help from the 10 to many strait to hull exploit damage sources, and skills that have no hard counter, let alone a possible way to confront or mitigate them to any extent.
BO is a pvp skill, anything that can reliably create kills is priceless, transcending opportunity cost for the most part. when the goal is getting kills against single high value targets, what trait even competes with it?
it's not exactly appealing to PVE'ers because BO is pretty DPS neutral, on top of sharing a system cooldown with FAW. let the proc give them 3 or 4 BO1s to every target in range simultaneously, and there might be an balanced opportunity cost vs running FAW, wile keeping another trait slot in play.
we find ourselves here often, another strictly PVP reliant addition and we are left scratching our heads why. another 1 shot aid into a meta that has about 10 to many 1 shot aides, and is dead largely because of 1 shot aids. with help from the 10 to many strait to hull exploit damage sources, and skills that have no hard counter, let alone a possible way to confront or mitigate them to any extent.
Actually there's already something like 3 or 4 BOs in PvE : you just need to use beams or dual beam banks crafted with the mod [ over ].
It's a type of beams I use to buy at the exchange for farming xp for a few chars of mine because they are cheap and fun.
With 2 or 3 beams or dual beams with the mod [ over ] you might sometimes see about 2 or 3 consecutive beam overloads I because of the way things proc in this game that you already know and the funny part is that mod may proc not only on the beams with that mod but also on the other beams or dual beams you have equipped.
However, from a quick test I did, I wouldn't recommend it in PvE : the "lucky" beam is stuck for about 2-3 seconds on that BO 1 ( a BO1, not a BO3) , and your FAW cycle is screwed up, while a couple of the many FAW shots from a Crtdx4 beam may do as much DPS as that BO1 in less time : mind you, this is a quick test, so I might be wrong but that's what I saw.
In PvP ? Well, a BO1 is not over-kill ... unless the previous BO3 critted in the 90k range and, on top of that, you got the improved temporal insight immunity.
But I don't know whether there's a trait worth being sacrificed for this one for a tac ...
Actually, with the 4 seconds immunity granted by the improved temporal insight, do you really need Superweapon ingenuity?
BO is a pvp skill, anything that can reliably create kills is priceless, transcending opportunity cost for the most part. when the goal is getting kills against single high value targets, what trait even competes with it?
it's not exactly appealing to PVE'ers because BO is pretty DPS neutral, on top of sharing a system cooldown with FAW. let the proc give them 3 or 4 BO1s to every target in range simultaneously, and there might be an balanced opportunity cost vs running FAW, wile keeping another trait slot in play.
we find ourselves here often, another strictly PVP reliant addition and we are left scratching our heads why. another 1 shot aid into a meta that has about 10 to many 1 shot aides, and is dead largely because of 1 shot aids. with help from the 10 to many strait to hull exploit damage sources, and skills that have no hard counter, let alone a possible way to confront or mitigate them to any extent.
Mate why even care at this point. For the last months the changes to the game meta speak loud and clear we don't give a **** about PvP. It is not like they hate it but they simply don't care.
Game design is a challenging, especially Balance. It was chosen to make actual HP sponges instead of giving the NPCs Stats and Buffs so they could Buff them self to Player lvl and be effectively as tough as they are right now, but with the benefit that sub nuke and other de buffs would unable more legit play styles. It is really disappointing as the Devs aim for a weak asymmetrical play styles of hybrid classes with out the enforce of the trinity. So here we are with PvE out of Balance dragging PvP with it.
Just let it go, PvP is dead unless you're an exploiting wale who likes to stump noobs.
Play the Game for what it is, space barbie in a Star Trek Theme park.
If PvP were dead, then Cryptic would stop adding things to kill it. So obviously it's not dead, and that's why Cryptic needs to keep adding things to try to kill it.
Seriously, go through and look at how many things have next to zero use for PvE but make PvP that much worse, eh?
I got a little discouraged when 2nd deflectors were nerfed so that aux didn't effect radiation damage. Got more discouraged when they "nerfed" the embassy consoles to being stronger. Then I read the double BO trait. I'm a semi pvper, but the pve content has left me just so bored. I really hope that the heralds will be much more challenging than advertised, since I think this is the nail in the coffin for pvp. And I know Borticus defended it, and to a certain degree, he's right, you do have to give up a trait, but if you're lucky enough to survive a Bo 3, the bo1 would probably finish you off. Although I think it would be hilarious to see a double tap beam overload 3/1 with a double tap high yield 3/1...
If PvP were dead, then Cryptic would stop adding things to kill it. So obviously it's not dead, and that's why Cryptic needs to keep adding things to try to kill it.
Seriously, go through and look at how many things have next to zero use for PvE but make PvP that much worse, eh?
As I said, PvP is dead unless you are an exploiter and or wale who likes to stomp noobs. It is not like killing PvP is what the Devs are aiming for, if that would be true, they would just remove it like they did with the exploration cluster and you know the outcry would be not even as big as it was with the exploration clusters.
Edit:
..by the way I am usually on the same side as you, to be frank in my opinion you're one of the most important and honourable individuals in the community.
Malon Battlecruiser is just their armed dumping transports. Is it cannon that their Battlecruisers were fitting with storage and dumping tanks also?
"Malon waste exporters had many sores on their skin due to theta radiation exposure. The Malon used analeptic compound injections to counter the freighter blight" from Memory Alpha.
When comparing this to the previous BO-Double-Tap scenario, you have to factor in Cost of Opportunity. Superweapon Ingenuity's CoO is arguably far higher, as it requires using one of your Starship Trait slots - a more limited commodity than Boff seats.
As such, I can say with some confidence that this Trait is unlikely to be "fixed" or "nerfed," with the POSSIBLE exception of extending the lockout period a bit. Even that's not very likely.
As much as I love the snarky "smart" response, the opportunity cost for vaper builds is zero (Well, whatever EC or equivalent $ they have to spend compared to time to make said amount is the actual opportunity cost). As it is, they can vape fine, and at the most they would use 2-3 traits max depending on faction. Any extra ones they slotted were just for fluff as Romulans in particular just use every escape console plus the singularity jump to get away quickly after attempting a vape.
Like drunk said, this is another useless PvE ability that ruins PvP. Let me guess, it was tested using the "average" PvE build yet again.
Tell you what Borticus, you let us stack Diplomat and Gravimetric Scientist doffs, and I'll consider the trait "balanced".
In light of the Heralds' onslaught, the remaining races of the Xindi Council have finally been convinced to add their considerable resources to those already offered by their Aquatic and Reptilian relatives. Their latest ships and experimental weaponry are now being offered to those willing to take a stand against the Demons of Air and Darkness.
No bridge officer this time? I'd have thought a Xindi Primate BOff would have been a cinch.
Well we do have all the Xindi primate parts in the alien tailor. Putting them together to make an "official" Xindi primate officer would every so totally undermine that "Hey, do it yourself!" impetus for STO under-represented STO species (Ex. Denobulan, Efrosian, Deltan, Vorta, Ocampa, Benzite, Kretaasan, Lissepian, ect.)
Bipedal mammal and senior Foundry author.
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It's an intriguing design indeed. I do like the (edit) dreadnought a bit, but as most Lockbox ships, it's likely to be far beyond my financial reach.
EDIT 2:
How many Starship Traits actually enhance vaping?
How many of the above, if any, can perform any better than a double-tap BO?
... on top of EVERYTHING vapers already have?
And lastly... why? I thought the design mindset was to step away from vaping mechanics, as it was stated in the past by the devs.
^ If this trait can take BO and use double-tap to turn it into essentially a guaranteed kill, then the opportunity cost won't matter. If the enemy is dead in the first volley, it starts to matter a bit less what your setup is...that, and the fact that not all traits are equally useful, so if someone is making do with pedal to the metal 'cause they haven't purchased many ships, this will be a clear replacement if they use BO as a skill.
...Just let it go, PvP is dead unless you're an exploiting whale who likes to stump noobs.
Play the Game for what it is, space barbie in a Star Trek Theme park.
Isn't the game experience so much more pleasant one ya clue in on this? :rolleyes:
When comparing this to the previous BO-Double-Tap scenario, you have to factor in Cost of Opportunity. Superweapon Ingenuity's CoO is arguably far higher, as it requires using one of your Starship Trait slots - a more limited commodity than Boff seats.
As such, I can say with some confidence that this Trait is unlikely to be "fixed" or "nerfed," with the POSSIBLE exception of extending the lockout period a bit. Even that's not very likely.
What's the opportunity cost for a Vaper?
They don't need a full loadout of traits in order to get their flash kills.
For the people that will benefit from this the most (Romulans), there arguably aren't even 4 Starship Traits that are worth it. There's no opportunity cost for them.
Further, this appears to be an entirely PvP-specific addition; the PvE crowd avoids BO like the plague since FAW is better for both single target and AoE anyways, and everything there is AoE focus. This is further evidenced by looking at the desirability of the [Over] mod, prices on the Exchange of gear with the [Over] mod vs those with [Pen] or [CrtDx3/4], and the fact that many people consider a weapon "ruined" when you put [Over] on it, second only to [Dmg].
First: They don't look at balance with PvP in mind.
Second: They just don't get what high skill, full gear players will do with something. Bort made it sound like there are so many god-mode traits in PvP. Feds have some pretty good ones, sure, but there's only one 'must-have' trait, and that's AHOD, which from what I imagine, has basically removed a need for Reciprocity on tac captains. But even if it hasn't, that's still just two great traits.
Now, just as a thought here, if I wanted to murderize someone in PvP via Beam Overload, I'd probably pick a Romulan (battle cloaks+crit severity bonuses), which means my relevant traits are AHOD, possibly Supremacy, possibly the Faeht, and for sure this one. I don't see the opportunity cost.
Sure, it's "just" beam overload 1, not the overload 3/2 that was possible before. Now it's just a guaranteed crit BO3/BO1 insta-hit. Well, gee, not like that'll hit you hard, and not like you can follow that up with anything else that's instantaneous high spike (cough dyson 3-set cough cough isokinetic cannon cough).
And this is why I can't make myself care about PvP. It's so god-forsaken and I have too many other things to care about. I get why you feel bad, you have my sympathy, but it's just not worth it to me to care.
When comparing this to the previous BO-Double-Tap scenario, you have to factor in Cost of Opportunity. Superweapon Ingenuity's CoO is arguably far higher, as it requires using one of your Starship Trait slots - a more limited commodity than Boff seats.
As such, I can say with some confidence that this Trait is unlikely to be "fixed" or "nerfed," with the POSSIBLE exception of extending the lockout period a bit. Even that's not very likely.
Let me give you another factor that's going to heavily play into this; If you're using Beam Overload, you're using the Beam Overload Penetration DOff (Energy Weapons Specialist). Everyone that uses BO uses that. They go hand in hand.
Now, BO has a 100% CrtH. You're going to get hammered from that. But thanks to the DOff, you're get hammered by the "free" BO 1 with an extra 30-35% shield penetration.
That's nearly enough to pop you right there, let alone what the other weapons your attacker is using are doing.
The Double Tap was removed because it was deemed OP, by the Devs no less, back when it didn't crit 100% of the time and it drained weapons power - there was opportunity cost there because it required clever power management; either the use of batteries (long CD), Marion Francis Dulmer (DEM DOff) and using DEM on ships with limited Eng BO abilties, or other tricks to make it work.
That was opportunity cost; giving up your only Lt Eng slot (and consequently a huge chunk of healing potential) and 1 out of 5 DOffs for a hilariously underpowered ability with a long CD, for the sole reason of using it's DOff, just to have an 8 second window to get both BOs in. Here, there is no opportunity cost.
I thought this was Star Trek Online, where we're flying massive capital ships, not Starfighters Online where you're snuffed out in the blink of an eye.
Comments
The ability does look good though, I look forward to buckling hulls.
Let me reiterate, the Delphic Expanse no longer exists. It returned to being normal space. The Thermobaric clouds, the spatial anomalies, it's gone. The planets and species within that region of warped space are fine, but the "expanse" effect is gone. Maybe it should be referred to strictly as the Delphic Sector Block or something.
It's worse than that a little. The Xindi were explicitly shown in Surface Tension to be members of the Federation. So the first question is why the heck has it taken them so long to get their butts in gear since their interstellar government is at war? second why are they giving out gear to the Romulans and the Klingons too? Allies or not. We don't see Klingons in Atroxs. Even Starfleet aligned Romulans can't fly those.
And by that logic only Starfleet should actually get Xindi as playable. I'm not saying that as some the Federation gets everything thing, it's just they are a literal Federation race, it's only logical. As much as I want a Suliban on my Starfleet crew, I'd find it acceptable if they were Republic only...or at least released to the Republic first. Maybe Romulans should get Suliban for free while Starfleet has to pay for a C-store unlock or something. F*&^ it, just release it to the alien generator across the board.
Klingons also need a fresh species in the deck. Maybe they could pick up the Talarians. While their weaponry was substandard, they were cunning and a patriarchal warrior culture, something the Klingons could certainly appreciate.
It's a waste if so.
gave me a great laugh with that one XD
If I recall correctly, Herald ships do in fact make use of some of those skills.
It's an intriguing design indeed. I do like the (edit) dreadnought a bit, but as most Lockbox ships, it's likely to be far beyond my financial reach.
EDIT 2:
How many Starship Traits actually enhance vaping?
How many of the above, if any, can perform any better than a double-tap BO?
... on top of EVERYTHING vapers already have?
And lastly... why? I thought the design mindset was to step away from vaping mechanics, as it was stated in the past by the devs.
STO Screenshot Archive
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BO is a pvp skill, anything that can reliably create kills is priceless, transcending opportunity cost for the most part. when the goal is getting kills against single high value targets, what trait even competes with it?
it's not exactly appealing to PVE'ers because BO is pretty DPS neutral, on top of sharing a system cooldown with FAW. let the proc give them 3 or 4 BO1s to every target in range simultaneously, and there might be an balanced opportunity cost vs running FAW, wile keeping another trait slot in play.
we find ourselves here often, another strictly PVP reliant addition and we are left scratching our heads why. another 1 shot aid into a meta that has about 10 to many 1 shot aides, and is dead largely because of 1 shot aids. with help from the 10 to many strait to hull exploit damage sources, and skills that have no hard counter, let alone a possible way to confront or mitigate them to any extent.
Actually there's already something like 3 or 4 BOs in PvE : you just need to use beams or dual beam banks crafted with the mod [ over ].
It's a type of beams I use to buy at the exchange for farming xp for a few chars of mine because they are cheap and fun.
With 2 or 3 beams or dual beams with the mod [ over ] you might sometimes see about 2 or 3 consecutive beam overloads I because of the way things proc in this game that you already know and the funny part is that mod may proc not only on the beams with that mod but also on the other beams or dual beams you have equipped.
However, from a quick test I did, I wouldn't recommend it in PvE : the "lucky" beam is stuck for about 2-3 seconds on that BO 1 ( a BO1, not a BO3) , and your FAW cycle is screwed up, while a couple of the many FAW shots from a Crtdx4 beam may do as much DPS as that BO1 in less time : mind you, this is a quick test, so I might be wrong but that's what I saw.
In PvP ? Well, a BO1 is not over-kill ... unless the previous BO3 critted in the 90k range and, on top of that, you got the improved temporal insight immunity.
But I don't know whether there's a trait worth being sacrificed for this one for a tac ...
Actually, with the 4 seconds immunity granted by the improved temporal insight, do you really need Superweapon ingenuity?
Game design is a challenging, especially Balance. It was chosen to make actual HP sponges instead of giving the NPCs Stats and Buffs so they could Buff them self to Player lvl and be effectively as tough as they are right now, but with the benefit that sub nuke and other de buffs would unable more legit play styles. It is really disappointing as the Devs aim for a weak asymmetrical play styles of hybrid classes with out the enforce of the trinity. So here we are with PvE out of Balance dragging PvP with it.
Just let it go, PvP is dead unless you're an exploiting wale who likes to stump noobs.
Play the Game for what it is, space barbie in a Star Trek Theme park.
Seriously, go through and look at how many things have next to zero use for PvE but make PvP that much worse, eh?
As I said, PvP is dead unless you are an exploiter and or wale who likes to stomp noobs. It is not like killing PvP is what the Devs are aiming for, if that would be true, they would just remove it like they did with the exploration cluster and you know the outcry would be not even as big as it was with the exploration clusters.
Edit:
..by the way I am usually on the same side as you, to be frank in my opinion you're one of the most important and honourable individuals in the community.
Edit:
sry you are right. I would like to know the Bonus as well.
"Malon waste exporters had many sores on their skin due to theta radiation exposure. The Malon used analeptic compound injections to counter the freighter blight" from Memory Alpha.
http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/Malon_export_vessel,_eleventh_gradient
"A Malon export vessel, eleventh gradient was a freighter-type vessel operated by the waste export industry of the Malon."
Same ship as being presented. I hope calling it a battlecruiser is a typo.
As much as I love the snarky "smart" response, the opportunity cost for vaper builds is zero (Well, whatever EC or equivalent $ they have to spend compared to time to make said amount is the actual opportunity cost). As it is, they can vape fine, and at the most they would use 2-3 traits max depending on faction. Any extra ones they slotted were just for fluff as Romulans in particular just use every escape console plus the singularity jump to get away quickly after attempting a vape.
Like drunk said, this is another useless PvE ability that ruins PvP. Let me guess, it was tested using the "average" PvE build yet again.
Tell you what Borticus, you let us stack Diplomat and Gravimetric Scientist doffs, and I'll consider the trait "balanced".
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q2eynNh5xHM
No bridge officer this time? I'd have thought a Xindi Primate BOff would have been a cinch.
We have the species parts, traits, and even a costume to pack them with.
Well we do have all the Xindi primate parts in the alien tailor. Putting them together to make an "official" Xindi primate officer would every so totally undermine that "Hey, do it yourself!" impetus for STO under-represented STO species (Ex. Denobulan, Efrosian, Deltan, Vorta, Ocampa, Benzite, Kretaasan, Lissepian, ect.)
Notable missions: Apex [AEI], Gemini [SSF], Trident [AEI], Evolution's Smile [SSF], Transcendence
Looking for something new to play? I've started building Foundry missions again in visual novel form!
^ If this trait can take BO and use double-tap to turn it into essentially a guaranteed kill, then the opportunity cost won't matter. If the enemy is dead in the first volley, it starts to matter a bit less what your setup is...that, and the fact that not all traits are equally useful, so if someone is making do with pedal to the metal 'cause they haven't purchased many ships, this will be a clear replacement if they use BO as a skill.
Isn't the game experience so much more pleasant one ya clue in on this? :rolleyes:
What's the opportunity cost for a Vaper?
They don't need a full loadout of traits in order to get their flash kills.
For the people that will benefit from this the most (Romulans), there arguably aren't even 4 Starship Traits that are worth it. There's no opportunity cost for them.
Further, this appears to be an entirely PvP-specific addition; the PvE crowd avoids BO like the plague since FAW is better for both single target and AoE anyways, and everything there is AoE focus. This is further evidenced by looking at the desirability of the [Over] mod, prices on the Exchange of gear with the [Over] mod vs those with [Pen] or [CrtDx3/4], and the fact that many people consider a weapon "ruined" when you put [Over] on it, second only to [Dmg].
The Malon ship will be nice. I hope to get one as well for a deal. I may use it on my Romulan or KDF. I'm not sure on this one yet.
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Fleet Admiral Stowe - Dominion War Vet.
Exactly! Even for a fed tac escort jokey where are no opportunity cost in PvP. This trait is a must have for every DBB BO escort.:rolleyes:
Frankly even with all the fuss now, deep inside we all know it will get nerfed down the road anyway lol.
Edit:
A spot on Quote from Mastajdog.
(source: https://www.reddit.com/r/sto/comments/32zkad/why_did_cryptic_go_through_the_trouble_of_nerfing/)
Let me give you another factor that's going to heavily play into this; If you're using Beam Overload, you're using the Beam Overload Penetration DOff (Energy Weapons Specialist). Everyone that uses BO uses that. They go hand in hand.
Now, BO has a 100% CrtH. You're going to get hammered from that. But thanks to the DOff, you're get hammered by the "free" BO 1 with an extra 30-35% shield penetration.
That's nearly enough to pop you right there, let alone what the other weapons your attacker is using are doing.
The Double Tap was removed because it was deemed OP, by the Devs no less, back when it didn't crit 100% of the time and it drained weapons power - there was opportunity cost there because it required clever power management; either the use of batteries (long CD), Marion Francis Dulmer (DEM DOff) and using DEM on ships with limited Eng BO abilties, or other tricks to make it work.
That was opportunity cost; giving up your only Lt Eng slot (and consequently a huge chunk of healing potential) and 1 out of 5 DOffs for a hilariously underpowered ability with a long CD, for the sole reason of using it's DOff, just to have an 8 second window to get both BOs in. Here, there is no opportunity cost.
I thought this was Star Trek Online, where we're flying massive capital ships, not Starfighters Online where you're snuffed out in the blink of an eye.
When do we get the Kanzo Carrier though?!