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The reason why ques are dead.
tamujiin
Member Posts: 321 Arc User
The reason why ques are dead, is pretty simple. When Delta rising launched, they stated that most ELITE ( edited ) ques will no longer be puggable.
Therefore people, started making CHANNELS in game to KNOW they are playing with capable players. Along with the fact, you get stuck alot with people that DO NOT KNOW what they are doing, or just like to TRIBBLE stuff up on purpose in a pug, there are even other factors, like....
1. You have "zones" like the voth ground battle zone, and the Undine Space Battle zone, or the Kobali prime advaneture zone, or even New Romulas, and Nukara.... Where you get dilithium from easily...
2. You have the DPS channels.
10k, and more channels, used to be 10k, 20k, 30k, 50k, and these are the popular channels nowadays...
You have people that run in "multi-fleet alliances".( could number quiet a few here in itself ).
You have EliteSTF
You have Publicelitestf
Probably an insane amount more i have no clue about....
Nobody that plays this game, and knows anything anyway, would pug an elite, at least if they are solo, therefore, the ques will appear on the QUICK join as dead. Anybody that knows anything, knows, you don't need to do anything que wise, when yer going between levels 50 and 60.. All marks are in zones, and it is easier to get yer rep marks solely from the daily reward boxes, enough for a few days.
Alot of people make private matches as well, to avoid certain GLITCHES and PENALTIES cryptic rarely even addresses, or acknowledges exist, because they are "minor annoyances", and yes thats all they are.
I guess i would have to say to those unsociable people, why are you pugging stuff? This is an MMO, a sociable game, and you should you know, get to know more people, if you are struggling.
Therefore people, started making CHANNELS in game to KNOW they are playing with capable players. Along with the fact, you get stuck alot with people that DO NOT KNOW what they are doing, or just like to TRIBBLE stuff up on purpose in a pug, there are even other factors, like....
1. You have "zones" like the voth ground battle zone, and the Undine Space Battle zone, or the Kobali prime advaneture zone, or even New Romulas, and Nukara.... Where you get dilithium from easily...
2. You have the DPS channels.
10k, and more channels, used to be 10k, 20k, 30k, 50k, and these are the popular channels nowadays...
You have people that run in "multi-fleet alliances".( could number quiet a few here in itself ).
You have EliteSTF
You have Publicelitestf
Probably an insane amount more i have no clue about....
Nobody that plays this game, and knows anything anyway, would pug an elite, at least if they are solo, therefore, the ques will appear on the QUICK join as dead. Anybody that knows anything, knows, you don't need to do anything que wise, when yer going between levels 50 and 60.. All marks are in zones, and it is easier to get yer rep marks solely from the daily reward boxes, enough for a few days.
Alot of people make private matches as well, to avoid certain GLITCHES and PENALTIES cryptic rarely even addresses, or acknowledges exist, because they are "minor annoyances", and yes thats all they are.
I guess i would have to say to those unsociable people, why are you pugging stuff? This is an MMO, a sociable game, and you should you know, get to know more people, if you are struggling.
Post edited by tamujiin on
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Are their more queues than those?
Because I will avoid them.
Infect ground advanced would be nice to try but there is nobody else playing it....
This game being a prime example.
Maybe the powers that be in STO should begin to kill off each and every channel that is DPS/STF related.
And make a rule about not ever creating these again.
Maybe heavy penalties on this might have some effect.
Taking away EC, Dil, ....
Or if you do communicate, immediately block them.
But cryptic wants to force people to be social.
That won't end well.
Got a link to that?
Cause you know, everybody's got their reasons for why the queues are the way they are...and well, imho, the queues being the way they are started long before DR was ever mentioned. It was a combination of things, which had little to do with the queues being something one could pug or not...though the nature of some players in pugs could make things far more difficult than necessary.
The #'s are not a ranking, rather they are just a means of organization.
#1) For those that are running them to get E-Marks for gear, they only have to run them so many times to get those E-Marks for gear. Then they no longer have to run them. Without a constant flow of new players or new characters that want those E-Marks, then the queues will wither. If there's no demand, there's no supply of players. This is going to work toward killing the queues.
#2) Above and beyond this though, Cryptic has been making E-Marks more and more available outside of queues. This started before DR, continued with DR, since DR, and they're even adding in the 100:1 trade-in for Marks to E-Marks with Season 10. So even though the demand for E-Marks may be at the same level as it was in #1, the demand to get them from running queues is nowhere what it might have been. In some cases, the ability to earn the E-Marks outside of the queues blows away the ability to earn them inside the queues. For others, earning them outside the queues offers less pressure and a more casual approach. This is going to work toward killing the queues.
#3) Speaking of Marks, though, it's not just about the E-Marks. Cryptic also added in the Daily Bonus Boxes which reward additional Marks to make it easier for folks to do their Reputation Projects without having to hit up any queues for the Marks. There are also a variety of missions that reward the Marks and even various queues that provide ways to grab a selection of Marks. All sorts of things that let players avoid the queues to get what they're looking for, yeah? The Delta Recruitment event even added in the Marks one could grab from having a Delta Recruit run through the story content as an account unlock. Making things easier to get outside of the queues for many...this is going to work toward killing the queues.
#4) Along similar lines, even before Delta Rising it was far easier/efficient, whatever positive adjective you want to use, to get Dilithium from activities outside of a queue than in it. With the "nerf" of the Dil in the queues while adding Dil to missions all over the place, this served further to draw those seeking Dilithium from the queues to elsewhere. This is going to work toward killing the queues.
#5) Following along that thought process, there were folks that ran queues hoping to get decent loot drops they could sell on the Exchange. Or maybe they just hoped for drops of stuff they wanted, eh? Then there was the revamp of the R&D system and one didn't quite need to depend on those loot drops for either. This is going to work toward killing the queues.
#6) Course, the public queues had started to die off long before much of that - because of player behavior. There would be the folks afking/leeching/hoping to be carried, and some folks just didn't find that to be fun, yeah? So more and more folks sought out people that were prepared and looking to do the actual run, right? More and more folks headed off to various channels to do their runs. This is going to work toward killing the queues.
#7) Course, those folks weren't the only folks driving folks away from the queues. Some people thought it funny to troll people running the queues. Through a myriad of actions, they'd cause all sorts of problems for groups. So more and more folks sought out people that were not going to troll, finding ways to avoid those trolls, yeah? More and more folks headed off to various channels to do their runs. This is going to work toward killing the queues.
#8) Sure, but what about R&D Mats? Those VR Mats that one can only get from the queues? Well, the price of those on the Exchange has dropped severely since their introduction. Cause a bunch of those folks doing their channel/friends/fleet runs and so forth are selling them. There's also the R&D Assistance as well as the R&D Boxes. There are R&D Promo Events (there's another one coming up the third week of May). But still, if one wanted to procure them from runs, wouldn't it get into the situation of wanting to avoid the folks leeching/trolling/ruining and so they'd be hitting up various channels themselves? This is going to work toward killing the queues.
That combination of dwindling need to bother with queues and players themselves ruining runs...how could the queues not continue dying off?
Outside of the Elites, and even with some of the Elites...they're something that's easy to pug as long as folks are halfway prepared and there's no dead weight nor trolling going on there.
All sorts of reasons, otherwise, why the public queues are dying off...yet, as you mention - channels are thriving. Some folks just like running the content, yeah? And well, the thing stopping them from enjoying those runs would be other players...so they find players that won't do that.
So, imho, the biggest cause of the death of the public queues would be players...
What you mean is "... there is nobody else pugging it..."
Join a good fleet and you'll see that plenty of people are having fun playing IGE.
As for the OP, he's right and I don't see the problem. I would be out of my mind to want to pug any queues when I can play with people I know on TS with a guarantee that everyone has the basic skills needed and there's no trolls that will intentionally fail the mission.
I pug things because I need marks. I'm not social because I have to deal with stupid people all day long. I play a Star Trek MMO because there isn't a current Trek game for any system, nor one that lets me customize my own ships and crews.
Also - they said Elite wont' be puggable. Advanced was always toted as "Exactly like the Elite you used to know!" - ergo - easily puggable by geared players.
There are not that many people playing in private channels. Imagine the average casual player doing 3-10k dps that has never visited the forums. They may have no clue those channels even exist and are just busy going "Wheeeeeeee" in an adventure zone.
Game is dead bro. That's it. But the illusion continues that the game is healthy and alive because there are enough people that buy every ship pack that comes out to keep them creating content for now. But it will slow or stop soon enough.
In the game I play, not this game, there are multiple private channels running the queues and the pug queues still pop for my class in about 1-2 minutes tops at any time of day. While the queues for DPS players are so full that they actually have to wait for their pop not because there's not enough players but because there's too many.... That's what a healthy MMO looks like.
You are fed, correct?
Because that isn't what the kdf is about. It is about being ignored by the devs for so long every fleet you join has one person in it after an hour: and that's you. And that has been consistent over 5 years.
What MMO would that be? Feel free to inbox me, of you feel that mentioning another game might get you in hot water. I am sincerely curious.
They make a wondrous mess of things. Brave amateurs, they do their part.
During these runs - I've always said a simple 'Hi team :-)' at the beginning. Usually, not one bothered to respond. It was to try to get a feeling how people are in pugs nowadays & perhaps even try to help some of them to learn the ropes of the STF; if they would want to. It's downright saddening to see, how anti-social people in this game are - and that comes from someone who suffers from social anxiety in real life. So when people manage to be even more 'anti-social' than me; then eh.. I'm sorry to say, but that's just sad.
I'd say that some more experienced people, who got tired of people failing the missions somewhat drove people off, and now it's one of reasons, why people don't bother pugging/talking in STFs, because mostly, what has been seen, was negativity or insults...
Surely, the queues have issues of their own - but, Any problem is rarely just one-sided thing. There are always two sides of the coin, so to speak. While we can't make direct alterations to the game, in terms of development, we can, at the very least, start with ourselves, as the community, what we can do better, so people don't feel alienated, perhaps?
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My character Tsin'xing
Then the leveling queues would be bumping, yeah?
What's that? Yeah, there are actually queues available while somebody is leveling. But those died off when you could level a character faster than I can...doh, already levelved...type out this post.
My character Tsin'xing
Im strictly speaking elites, who in their right mind, that knows what they are doing, is going to do advanced or normal? Salvage tech alone, worth the run in elites, not to mention the mats, and marks.
And PRE delta rising, 80% of the game did not know how to build a ship to get 10k dps out of... which STILL makes runs, FAST yet enjoyable.
THANKS to channels like the DPS channels, the game has about a 75% rate of not knowing what a 10k build is. SO those channels WORK.... albiet they suck activity from **** fleets, that do not work together, which slowly in my book, is becoming a plus plus, instead of being so adament about not likeing those channels because of what they do activity wise for a fleet.
Yet in the end its an easy way to find out who is the elitist in the fleet, and who just wants to have fun running stuff together so, yeah, those channels affect the game A LOT.
And now, with the Delta recruitment, we have about 90,000 other new players to teach how to do stuff.
A lot of DECENT good fleets, are tied up right now getting to know new people to the game. And running actual story missions.
SO whatever, my point being is, the ANTI-social, "i work with stupid people all day, so i want to play an mmo solo style trying to pug everything", people, end up whining on the forums because they cannot do anything in a pug group.....
When in reality it needs teamwork, even in the ADVANCED space ques like ISA now. Which i do NOT want changed AT ALL as they REQUIRE a team that works together and knows what to do.
I actually want these ELITE, and even harder.
Aka you want to run Infected? Pick it up from X contact... fly to the Sibiran System... then Boom pew pew pew.
You want to Run the outside Nukara? Pick up the mission, go to Nukara Prime and reach the cave.
1. Fleet Starbase 5-Man Alert.
2. Crystalline Catastrophe.
3. Starbase 24.
4. Borg Disconnected.
yah ive come to find out on these forums, no one cares about a wall of text, or point your trying to make like that, no offense, i stopped reading after you questioned what i said, without actually knowing how to play the game obviously, by reading your first paragraph. No offense. Shorten it up.
The past is the past, and the game is better today then it ever has been, so the past is irrelevant. The people that would bring up the RELEVANT point you made, have since left the game, or died out, expecially the fleets like Starfleet Dental, we all know who would purposly ruin a que. Infiltrate a fleet, and "delete it" etc etc etc which is more damaging to a community then anything, as it does mean people loose interest in the game, due to poor moderation.
All that is dying, because they no longer have the support of Bran Flakes, or other Community moderators or managers, its quiet obvious.
This game has a HUGE potential still, and with the CURRENT lack of SUBJUGATION of information on the forums, i appreciate this current staff fully, as i did not support it in the past.
The last thing Cryptic needs to realize is, 90% of trekkies, are MATURE adults, so your TREKKIE backing, is adults, your "shoot em up sci-fi space shooter fans" who know nothing of star trek, are 90% anyway going to be kids, with POOR information on how they want the game to move forward. No offense to the young ones.
Small chunks of people left the game each season since LoR launched because they were dissatisfied with the "changes". These are people who sociably, cannot accept change. There is a huge group of players, ( my group anyway ) who appreciate the changes, as the game was pretty lame from a sociable player standpoint up until LoR launched.
Goes without saying, they stopped catering to unsociable groups, and players, who have to troll and be jerkfaces, as that is the rep this game WAS getting.
You should read people's post completely before replying so you do not look stupid.
This isn't; "I will write down two sentences just so you can be happy with a quick reply". The guy is giving you facts you don't even take a moment to read, facts that were present then and are even still present today. How can you even have a conversation with them if you don't take the time to read anything? He is talking about the past and present in his post, and if you can not learn from the past, what do you expect from the future? You don't want to read long post?.. Get out of the forums then. You read the word "past" and right there you came to thing the whole post was about the "past" when it isn't.
And who the hell told you that the game is better now?
There are even less things going on now then it ever was before, lol!
I'm a freaking PvP'er. Don't come and cry about the lack of attention the KDF has because it has gotten 10 times more than PvP has ever had.
And I know of fleets that will accept KDF characters and that will help you. I'm actually a member of 2 of them: 12th Fleet and UFP.
So instead of crying, get up and look around. You'll find people to team up with.
Yes there were a lot of long standing issues, but crappy rewards and mandatory optionals were what killed participation.
I think you would see a quick surge in PUGs participation if you restore the queues to where they were last year at this time - with additional elite queues.
The elite DPS guys could still have their fun and the casual players could have what keeps them happy.
I don't whine on the forums - the only threads I usually post in are the Galaxy thread, foundry reviews, and if I see someone who needs help. I have no trouble completing the content. I'm sitting on probably five hundred of each elite token.
Do I think Elite should be extremely difficult, requiring dedicated and amazing players? Absolutely. There are people who's entire gameplay is based on the challenge. On proving their builds and their dedication. Should these elite tests of skill and dedication be completed by 5 random knuckleheads in a queue? Absolutely not.
However - there are a great deal of players like me. Who's builds are very good, who have no problems with the harder content, but just want to get their advanced token and mark package for the day, then go play content they find more fun. The queues are dead because Cryptic took an extremely casual game and gave it a difficulty spike that the majority of it's current player base couldn't deal with.
Does it affect you? Probably not. Does it affect me? Not in the least - if someone doesn't intentionally fail the missions I can usually carry it alone. Does it affect Tom, Rich, and Harry - who's play an hour a week, and barely have any idea which end of their phaser is dangerous? Yeah, it does. And those players - who were used to, and liked, their casual game have gone on.
While the queues are part of the problem, a bigger part is players like you popping in and insisting that "Because I enjoy the content, everyone else must suck and they don't play right".
I edited my post as i had an ERROR due to chubby stubby manly fingers, Re read it. please. Wasnt done with what i was saying
The fact we as a group of 400 members or so have been having a blast doing other things lately beside ISE over and over and over again, the group i lead, in game, who rarely take to the forums because of ****** comments like that, has told me.
Crying? I am not. I just choose not to do queued events that are not pugable.
I would rather not do queues whatsoever and only do solo stuff but cryptic wants me to group with sociopaths.
If I group with sociopaths it better be easy for them to do it
Eh'? see my point why i talk the way i do on the forums? I agree 100% with your first sentence as well. This is the difference between a good group, and a ****ty group... letting asswhipes that have to be mean to people into it, which in the end blows up in yer face, cause you the player, inevitably have ot choose sides in a dramam argument you dont really give a **** about.
This is why ZERO tolerance for drama has worked so well in our group, cause it, yer out, play into it, yer out. When it happens, ME and 1 Other guy are THE AUTHORITY that handles/kills it, no one else. Otherwise i just motivate my group to have fun, and work together.
People that have to tell a new player to hit Alt f4, may find that funny when a player does actually hit it for example, but it isnt contructive, when your trying to build a community, that is as populous as ours is.
This is why i say DECENT fleet. A decent fleet will draw certain lines, like Turretts syndrome players that have to blurt out swearwords every ten seconds.... or people who claim they have a mental diability when you show them a bit of sarcasm, and they flip out.
Those types of people, can go in my book
And the needs of the many, out way the needs of the few, or the one.
Yet the tool they provided is limited to only 20 channels .
With a fragmented community such as this , 40-50 would be better .
with the addition of elite marks to all the BGs its only gotten worse
My character Tsin'xing
And thank Q for that. I can finally get some implants without having to bore myself to near death running that god-awful ground BZ.
They should just delete all queues, imho, and develop more interesting and challenging open space-zones with multitudes of objectives. These antiquated queues with their bloated hp NPCs are not fun (again... imo), especially having to do them repetitively.