I made a post about something similar to this a while ago about phaser weapons. when i play as fed, i at-least want a good range of solid phaser weapons of all types. but your choices are really limited. the best looking rep phaser weapon from the delta rep is TRIBBLE. like its the weakest rep weapon. and guess what, the most fun weapons ive used is the plasma repeater and the borg anti-proton machine pistol. it would be cool as hell if we had a phaser pistol like the romulan repeater or its cousins. they feel fun to use and are powerful sidearms! but no, we get anti-proton ****.
In terms of unique variants (stat change plus aesthetics) Phaser has standard, elite fleet, undine-counter command, xindi, mission reward classic, and delta ground reputation to choose from. AP, by comparison, has standard, undine, and voth. The range of choices is very comparable.
And the problem is? "Metrics" generated by players playing for desirable content is sort of the point of STO (or any comparable video game for that matter). If that's now reprehensible to the forums then the forums very seriously need to move on.
Bipedal mammal and senior Foundry author.
Notable missions: Apex [AEI], Gemini [SSF], Trident [AEI], Evolution's Smile [SSF], Transcendence
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No one is forcing you to use anything in this game. And on another note no one is forcing you to play the game. If ya dont like it you can leave and go play something else.
Is that the result you want? Because I think it's happening.
In terms of unique variants (stat change plus aesthetics) Phaser has standard, elite fleet, undine-counter command, xindi, mission reward classic, and delta ground reputation to choose from.
I use thoron-infused polaron on one charactger, crafted AP on another and corrosive plasma on a third. Thye all seem pretty damamge heavy.... especially the corrosive plasma set. If I could keep my shields up while I tear through the opponnent, I'd be unstoppable.
Add my plasma buffs as a Romulan in a T5 Scim and add the new crafted Particle Emission Plasma Torp I've just created and my plasma far outperforms my AP.
So no, I am not disappointed in the way they are headed...
I tend to prefer AP simply because the build is simpler and there's less of a "gamble" involved (ex: 10% chance of disabling one subsystem, etc.). But I also use Rom Plasma, Disruptor & Polarized/Elachi Disruptor all with quite equal effectiveness. My Rom Tac uses a Rom Plasma build that is deadly as hell... and my Klingon Eng loves Disruptor on one build and it's every bit as effective as his AP build.
I really get tired of hearing these "AP is OP", "Disruptor is OP", etc. rants. While Cryptic may not be great at balance they've gotten a LOT better and things are not that unbalanced... just work with the build you like best and quit chasing every new shiny that comes along... :rolleyes:
*STO*Its mission: To destroy strange new worlds, to seek out new life and new civilizations... and then kill them, to boldly annihilate what no one has annihilated before!
Well, once again a new (potentially OP on paper) weapon is being introduced, and once again it is AP based...
There is becoming less and less reason to even consider using anything but AP weapons, everything Cryptic are presently doing seems focused on AP...
I'm curious as to why, since there are so many different energy types in STO, why is it always AP that gets all the shiney toys? Why not mix things up a little?
What "new (potentially OP on paper)" AP weapon is being introduced, if I may ask?! I'm not seeing any new rep being announced at all yet.
Though, that may be true... There definitely is a trend there with AP weapons...
We've had the Ancient Omni Beam, the AP Torp (which had to be drastically nerfed by my understanding) and now what seems like a potentially OP AP rep weapon...
There's definitely reason to almost feel pigeon-holed into using AP weapons, and this outside of the fact that they are generally above everything else for PVE DPS output already...
its been hinted at for practically months maybe even years that end game mobs would have distinctive weaponry specifically AP in the old borg series for example when the Iconian ship appeared (in its earliest form) and destroyed the borg it was using AP weapons, same when the ship randomly appears over iconia (not there now any i believe) so the hints were there for a long long time and considering AP is supposedly the most powerful (lore wise) it makes sense.
seriously complaining about it wont change a thing, the hints were there and frankly I see more plasma users and polaron users than I see AP users so frankly the whole discussion is mute as far as im concerned.
Just do away with anything but AP weapons the way STO is heading...
The entitlement is strong with this one ... . :P
But I suppose that like many white knights before you, you too think that it's OK to be upset / unhappy / complain when the issue is something that you do not approve of ... , because in your mind there's a distinct difference between your complaints ... and everybody else's ... -- with you being special and all that .
... I guess this could be amusing ... , if it wasn't so predictable and sad ...
My Delta was using crafted AP as its teh bestest, and then after reading a 15 page thread on energy types switched to polaron. As a sci-drainer, I'm finding I perform so much better with polaron, my DPS seems higher and I seem to get through ships easier.
Might just be persepctive, but I think I'm gonna stick with polaron for my sci.
But I suppose that like many white knights before you, you too think that it's OK to be upset / unhappy / complain when the issue is something that you do not approve of ... , because in your mind there's a distinct difference between your complaints ... and everybody else's ... -- with you being special and all that .
... I guess this could be amusing ... , if it wasn't so predictable and sad ...
The schadenfreude is strong in this one.
It's possible that the poster you are responding to has an objective standard to use when identifying valid complaints versus entitled whining. Either way, don't make the mistake of assuming that disagreeing with one of Cryptic's decisions is the same thing as suddenly learning that you were right all along about that one thing he must have said to you to get you to hold a grudge.
If this is supposed to be a clever comeback @ my opening line, you should look up the trollish forum Sig of the OP , and then contemplate your own ironic call of schadenfreude .
It's possible that the poster you are responding to has an objective standard to use when identifying valid complaints versus entitled whining.
His "objective standard" has already been blown out of the water by the listing the existence of only 4 Antiproton weapon options VS the existence of up to 8 versions of other weapon types .
A Dev posted that list BTW.
Either way, don't make the mistake of assuming that disagreeing with one of Cryptic's decisions is the same thing as suddenly learning that you were right all along
Nah, it's not about that ... , but rather about being here long enough to see virtual generation after generation of white knights rise, only to later find their own pet peeve and finally either join the chorus of skeptics & complainers or just pack up and leave .
looks like someone needs to be introduced to [crtd]x4 elachi beams. they do loads more damage than ap weapons when they proc. record with the proc on bo1 is 407k. lets see yer ap weapons do that.
Unlike some people, I'm not willing to pay the insane prices asked for them...
anyways ap weapons just do more damage on crit (20%). most other weapons can do the same if not more. ie you can do about the same amount of dps as an ap boat with any other energy type if yer specced. ap is not the be all end all.
That innate 20% CrtD bonus generally puts them above all other weapons for PVE since all other weapons are reliant on (an often mediocre) proc with only a 2.5% chance of triggering...
I am well aware that you don't have to use AP, but items such as the Ancient Omni, the AP torp and now an AP based rep weapon, that seems drastically OP IMO, results in AP leaning toward being the obvious pick outside of almost RP reasons...
As far as 'speccing' for a weapon, since it all boils down to which Tac consoles you pick (and perhaps a few set bonuses and such) your 'spec' really makes little difference...
But I suppose that like many white knights before you, you too think that it's OK to be upset / unhappy / complain when the issue is something that you do not approve of ... , because in your mind there's a distinct difference between your complaints ... and everybody else's ... -- with you being special and all that .
... I guess this could be amusing ... , if it wasn't so predictable and sad ...
What's predictable and sad is that you've immediately gone on a personal attack... The last time you tried this, you had a crack at my forum name, my avatar and IIRC the amount of time I have available to spend on the forums...
I believe I asked if you were going to attack my shoelaces next, as your approach was typically infantile and something I'd have expected from a 5yo in the school yard...
In each instance you were shot down very quickly... But, if you really wanna go down that path once more, I'm more than happy to do so...
Right now, the only person who has shown any indication they think themselves special is you my friend...
The very fact you've jumped at this as a potential opportunity for a personal attack is just further evidence of how absolutely childish you are, as I had pointed out the last time you tried this...
Not to mention I've clearly pissed you off enough, no doubt by shutting down your countless entitled rants, that you had to make something of this, which is really rather pathetic since all I am to you is an avatar on a forum...
As I said, if any one is being 'sad and predictable' here it's you for having attacked the messenger and not the message, as a result of your own personal issues and insecurities... Grow up...
ADDENDUM :
This was not even a 'peeve' of mine for the record... I actually use AP on my main character, and have done for quite some time... This actually works out well for me...
I merely commented on what I perceived as a trend toward AP based items... You know, using the forum for discussion - that's clearly an alien concept for some...
That innate 20% CrtD bonus generally puts them above all other weapons for PVE since all other weapons are reliant on (an often mediocre) proc with only a 2.5% chance of triggering...
I am well aware that you don't have to use AP, but items such as the Ancient Omni, the AP torp and now an AP based rep weapon, that seems drastically OP IMO, results in AP leaning toward being the obvious pick outside of almost RP reasons...
Yes, if you are just looking at the weapons and not the whole build, APs are superior. When you look at the DPS calculator at the DPS channel a no proc vs AP proc is roughly around 4%+ advantage in favor of the AP.
Once you consider builds into the equation, like putting a Nadeon Bomb on Phaser builds, in practice Phasers wins hands down over AP.
So yes, AP is more powerful if you disregard everything except the weapons proc themselves. But AP is not the current holder of the top dog DPS.
Metric orient development has only been a thing to complain about on these forums for the past few months. Its the stock phrase of the moment people like to throw out because with it you can attribute even positive gameplay changes to Cryptic's weak moral character.
Its bull****, ie. a self-satisfying argument about motives that reorients any concievable change to the game (assuming its possibly justified using STATISTICS, ie. evidence with interpretive reasoning) to a pre-defined attitude.
Put it to bed and move on to the next excuse. Maybe some day you'll find a point. Reputation set antiproton weapons are reasonably justifiable from multiple different perspectives. The complaints on the other hand are entirely arbitrary. It has never been an explicit trade-off in weapon type choice that AP shouldn't have access to a few variety weapons (else the ancient omni-directional AP beam would have been noteworthy more than a year ago), its only been an incidental consequence of the fact that cryptic hadn't gotten around to it yet.
Wouldn't an antiproton weapon, best be described as an anti-matter weapon?
Yes but "anti-protons" have featured a few times in Star Trek plot-hole-filling techno-babble so that term got picked up instead.
Bipedal mammal and senior Foundry author.
Notable missions: Apex [AEI], Gemini [SSF], Trident [AEI], Evolution's Smile [SSF], Transcendence
Looking for something new to play? I've started building Foundry missions again in visual novel form!
Remove science too. Particularly KDF and Romulan science. They don't have any T6 ships for it anyway. Might as well just remove engineers too. A tac with APA/GDF can do anything better in any ship than the the classes the ships were made for. Convert all ships to 5 fore, 2 aft with 5 tac consoles and call it a day.
Comments
In terms of unique variants (stat change plus aesthetics) Phaser has standard, elite fleet, undine-counter command, xindi, mission reward classic, and delta ground reputation to choose from. AP, by comparison, has standard, undine, and voth. The range of choices is very comparable.
And the problem is? "Metrics" generated by players playing for desirable content is sort of the point of STO (or any comparable video game for that matter). If that's now reprehensible to the forums then the forums very seriously need to move on.
Notable missions: Apex [AEI], Gemini [SSF], Trident [AEI], Evolution's Smile [SSF], Transcendence
Looking for something new to play? I've started building Foundry missions again in visual novel form!
Is that the result you want? Because I think it's happening.
The STO playerbase is becoming very disposable.
You forgot about Andorian.
I tend to prefer AP simply because the build is simpler and there's less of a "gamble" involved (ex: 10% chance of disabling one subsystem, etc.). But I also use Rom Plasma, Disruptor & Polarized/Elachi Disruptor all with quite equal effectiveness. My Rom Tac uses a Rom Plasma build that is deadly as hell... and my Klingon Eng loves Disruptor on one build and it's every bit as effective as his AP build.
I really get tired of hearing these "AP is OP", "Disruptor is OP", etc. rants. While Cryptic may not be great at balance they've gotten a LOT better and things are not that unbalanced... just work with the build you like best and quit chasing every new shiny that comes along... :rolleyes:
What "new (potentially OP on paper)" AP weapon is being introduced, if I may ask?! I'm not seeing any new rep being announced at all yet.
Even in your post you walk right into the most obvious blunder metrics can produce; their misinterpretation.
You may want to feel like a cog in the machine. I doubt that's a widely held opinion.
its been hinted at for practically months maybe even years that end game mobs would have distinctive weaponry specifically AP in the old borg series for example when the Iconian ship appeared (in its earliest form) and destroyed the borg it was using AP weapons, same when the ship randomly appears over iconia (not there now any i believe) so the hints were there for a long long time and considering AP is supposedly the most powerful (lore wise) it makes sense.
seriously complaining about it wont change a thing, the hints were there and frankly I see more plasma users and polaron users than I see AP users so frankly the whole discussion is mute as far as im concerned.
the sarcasm is stronk with this one
I hope...
The entitlement is strong with this one ... . :P
But I suppose that like many white knights before you, you too think that it's OK to be upset / unhappy / complain when the issue is something that you do not approve of ... , because in your mind there's a distinct difference between your complaints ... and everybody else's ... -- with you being special and all that .
... I guess this could be amusing ... , if it wasn't so predictable and sad ...
Might just be persepctive, but I think I'm gonna stick with polaron for my sci.
The schadenfreude is strong in this one.
It's possible that the poster you are responding to has an objective standard to use when identifying valid complaints versus entitled whining. Either way, don't make the mistake of assuming that disagreeing with one of Cryptic's decisions is the same thing as suddenly learning that you were right all along about that one thing he must have said to you to get you to hold a grudge.
If this is supposed to be a clever comeback @ my opening line, you should look up the trollish forum Sig of the OP , and then contemplate your own ironic call of schadenfreude .
His "objective standard" has already been blown out of the water by the listing the existence of only 4 Antiproton weapon options VS the existence of up to 8 versions of other weapon types .
A Dev posted that list BTW.
Nah, it's not about that ... , but rather about being here long enough to see virtual generation after generation of white knights rise, only to later find their own pet peeve and finally either join the chorus of skeptics & complainers or just pack up and leave .
... I just pointed out the cycle ...
Unlike some people, I'm not willing to pay the insane prices asked for them...
That innate 20% CrtD bonus generally puts them above all other weapons for PVE since all other weapons are reliant on (an often mediocre) proc with only a 2.5% chance of triggering...
I am well aware that you don't have to use AP, but items such as the Ancient Omni, the AP torp and now an AP based rep weapon, that seems drastically OP IMO, results in AP leaning toward being the obvious pick outside of almost RP reasons...
As far as 'speccing' for a weapon, since it all boils down to which Tac consoles you pick (and perhaps a few set bonuses and such) your 'spec' really makes little difference...
Presuming you missed it... Iconian Reputation...
What's predictable and sad is that you've immediately gone on a personal attack... The last time you tried this, you had a crack at my forum name, my avatar and IIRC the amount of time I have available to spend on the forums...
I believe I asked if you were going to attack my shoelaces next, as your approach was typically infantile and something I'd have expected from a 5yo in the school yard...
In each instance you were shot down very quickly... But, if you really wanna go down that path once more, I'm more than happy to do so...
Right now, the only person who has shown any indication they think themselves special is you my friend...
The very fact you've jumped at this as a potential opportunity for a personal attack is just further evidence of how absolutely childish you are, as I had pointed out the last time you tried this...
Not to mention I've clearly pissed you off enough, no doubt by shutting down your countless entitled rants, that you had to make something of this, which is really rather pathetic since all I am to you is an avatar on a forum...
As I said, if any one is being 'sad and predictable' here it's you for having attacked the messenger and not the message, as a result of your own personal issues and insecurities... Grow up...
ADDENDUM :
This was not even a 'peeve' of mine for the record... I actually use AP on my main character, and have done for quite some time... This actually works out well for me...
I merely commented on what I perceived as a trend toward AP based items... You know, using the forum for discussion - that's clearly an alien concept for some...
Yes, if you are just looking at the weapons and not the whole build, APs are superior. When you look at the DPS calculator at the DPS channel a no proc vs AP proc is roughly around 4%+ advantage in favor of the AP.
Once you consider builds into the equation, like putting a Nadeon Bomb on Phaser builds, in practice Phasers wins hands down over AP.
So yes, AP is more powerful if you disregard everything except the weapons proc themselves. But AP is not the current holder of the top dog DPS.
Praetor of the -RTS- Romulan Tal Shiar fleet!
Metric orient development has only been a thing to complain about on these forums for the past few months. Its the stock phrase of the moment people like to throw out because with it you can attribute even positive gameplay changes to Cryptic's weak moral character.
Its bull****, ie. a self-satisfying argument about motives that reorients any concievable change to the game (assuming its possibly justified using STATISTICS, ie. evidence with interpretive reasoning) to a pre-defined attitude.
Put it to bed and move on to the next excuse. Maybe some day you'll find a point. Reputation set antiproton weapons are reasonably justifiable from multiple different perspectives. The complaints on the other hand are entirely arbitrary. It has never been an explicit trade-off in weapon type choice that AP shouldn't have access to a few variety weapons (else the ancient omni-directional AP beam would have been noteworthy more than a year ago), its only been an incidental consequence of the fact that cryptic hadn't gotten around to it yet.
Yes but "anti-protons" have featured a few times in Star Trek plot-hole-filling techno-babble so that term got picked up instead.
Notable missions: Apex [AEI], Gemini [SSF], Trident [AEI], Evolution's Smile [SSF], Transcendence
Looking for something new to play? I've started building Foundry missions again in visual novel form!