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Dear Devs: GET RID OF THE FIRE CAVES!!!
mhall85
Member Posts: 2,852 Arc User1
So, I've seen a couple of threads (on here and on Reddit) about the desire for a Cardie arc revamp... and it's coming "Soon." So, as you are off in Code Land, devs, do me a favor...
GET RID OF THE FIRE CAVES.
I've not gotten to the mission yet on my FED Delta alt, but I know it's coming... aside from the fact that the mission is rather annoying, it is canonically inaccurate. I watched the DS9 finale, "What You Leave Behind," yesterday... and in that episode, as Sisko takes out Dukat, the book (The Text of the Costomogen) was destroyed. This book was the key to opening the Caves, and with it destroyed, the Caves are no longer a threat (as confirmed by Sisko's Prophet-Mom).
So, I don't know what line of text was used (if any) in the game to justify Dukat Jr. accessing the Caves again... but, I'm not talking about the caves looking screen inaccurate... the mission should not exist. The Caves can never be opened again, so go ahead and retcon that mission into oblivion, please.
/nerdrant
GET RID OF THE FIRE CAVES.
I've not gotten to the mission yet on my FED Delta alt, but I know it's coming... aside from the fact that the mission is rather annoying, it is canonically inaccurate. I watched the DS9 finale, "What You Leave Behind," yesterday... and in that episode, as Sisko takes out Dukat, the book (The Text of the Costomogen) was destroyed. This book was the key to opening the Caves, and with it destroyed, the Caves are no longer a threat (as confirmed by Sisko's Prophet-Mom).
So, I don't know what line of text was used (if any) in the game to justify Dukat Jr. accessing the Caves again... but, I'm not talking about the caves looking screen inaccurate... the mission should not exist. The Caves can never be opened again, so go ahead and retcon that mission into oblivion, please.
/nerdrant
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Keep it around if the Pah-wraiths can tie in with the Iconians
In all seriousness, the book is just a plot device and a newer one could be just as easily written into the script as it was taken out of the script by virtue of it's destruction.
I'd be okay with that... because, at least Kestrel and the writers would be making attempts to tie it into the story of the game.
But, Sisko's conversation with Sarah in the Temple jumped out to me yesterday... the book was the key, but the book was destroyed, so the Caves are no longer a threat.
Ooh! Maybe we can go to the buried Bajoran city Sisko found, and some long lost text was found to access the Fire Caves again?
Its A Faaaaaaaaaaaake
I think you worded that incorrectly. You meant to say that new cannon holds nothing sacred that older cannon established. Star Trek Canon does exist; however, it's not easily understood because the script writers left many plot holes and introduced many inconsistencies that are difficult to reconcile when looking at Star Trek as whole.
Well, yes... I guess my point really is: find a better way to make that work, or get rid of the mission. The plot of the mission seems hastily conceived and executed, and at least in terms of Kestrel's writing as of late in this game... well-thought out plot lines are a strength of this game.
But, but... I can confirm it's authenticity!
USS Casinghead NCC 92047 launched 2350
Fleet Admiral Stowe - Dominion War Vet.
Except that information (about the book and the Caves) was not given by a Bajoran... it was given by the god/alien that (theoretically) set up the system of belief in the first place, LOL. If any being knows whether or not the Pah-wraths are a threat, I think the Prophets would know.
The overall arc...imho...some folks prefer tidy arcs. I see it more a case of there being multiple throughlines taking place.
Here's a snipped concept for a revamp though...
Full version of that post with how the above was reached (as well as adjustments to the KDF/Rom versions) here: http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?p=23212071#post23212071
There is nothing wrong with fillers. If said filler is fun and interesting, then it's all kosher.
Not everything has to be tied to the arc's main plot.
true, but the cardasian arc particularly is the longest arc and the only reason its long is because its padded out with quite a few missions that simple do nothing to move the plot along.....the borg and breen arcs are much shorter, if they had filler I really wouldn't care much
The BOFF pathing got addressed a couple of years ago, no? It's pretty much wham bam like the majority of the content now...run around in circles pressing 1/2 and letting the BOFFs frag everything.
Cryptic's recent actions, with the Borg, Undine, and Romulan arcs, would disagree with that, sadly.
But, at the same time, "cutting the fat" by revamping missions that were rushed in the first place is not a bad thing.
I just don't find the Fire Caves episode interesting.
That could work for me, too, but - the Pah-Wraiths are gone. It would just be a "bog standard" religion that doesn't happen to have supernatural powers presenting themselves to back it up. Maybe they can use some technological trick (like that woman that pretended to be a local's planet devil) to make it appear as if they had something backing them up, but that has to suffice.
There are elements of the mission I like:
A well-respected character suddenly turning to be a traitor? That's wonderful. But it requires setting up this character and making him (or her) respected (maybe in previous missions?), and then have him turn on you. There is no real pay-off otherwise.
you are led to assume it was destroyed but things like that can often not be destroyed the evil and magic in them protect them.
have you never seen one of those horror stories where some evil thing is supposedly destroyed only to turn up in a junk shop or antique shop some time later.
When I think about everything we've been through together,
maybe it's not the destination that matters, maybe it's the journey,
and if that journey takes a little longer,
so we can do something we all believe in,
I can't think of any place I'd rather be or any people I'd rather be with.
Right, but again... this information didn't come from a witch, sorcerer, oracle... or a Bajoran Vedek or Kai. That line of dialogue came from a Prophet, in other words, the beings that likely have the perspective to know whether or not a threat is taken care of.
Now, with that said, yes... you could easily have a mission that finds a proto-copy of Text of the Costomogen (because, to take your example further, it's likely that the incantation found in the Text is where the true power resided for Winn and Dukat, not the book itself)... and that proto-copy allows for the Fire Caves to be reopened.
But, we don't have that in the game, LOL. Either refresh it, to allow the story to make sense, or boot it.
Anyways... I never liked Cage of Fire because BOffs tended to go insane trying to cross the bridges. Although strangely that didn't happen with my recent playthrough.
...in other words, just some other additional fictional character that was doing whatever the writers thought might move the story along or wrap it up. The same writers that trip over themselves constantly and do a pretty poor showing along the way.
Yeah, that got fixed some time back...it's just like anything else now...run in, pew pew, collect reward.
Easy, easy! We're talking about DS9 here, not Voyager or Enterprise. At least Ira Behr and Ron Moore cared about their plotlines! :P
Besides, while the point is taken, I don't subscribe to that kind of logic. Attacking the IP on that kind of level opens the door to questioning MANY other things that have already made it into the game... and that serves little purpose.
I just noticed a line of dialogue, and I would like to see a better product represented in this game. If that means rewriting the mission to make more sense, great. If that means removing it completely (and I would expect this more, given the nature of the mission), I won't shed any tears. It's a dumb mission. Cool place, dumb story.
The fanaticism can live on, even if their gods vessels were destroyed
They are non-coporeal beings made of energy
Right... IIRC, the Pah-wraith & Prophet in "The Reckoning" wasn't killed... you could see them re-appear in a attempt to bring on the Reckoning again.
That would be cool. I want to be clear: I have no problem with the Pah-wraiths or the Fire Caves being in this game. I only have a problem with the terrible mission that they are featured in, in this game.
The prophets are far from omniscient.
And the physical book is irrelevant - attempting to destroy knowledge is far more difficult.