without looking off the top of my head (I swear) and in no particular order
Broken Bow
Shockwave 1&2
Carbon Creek
Regeneration
Terra Nova
Terra Prime
These Are the Voyages
In a Mirror Darkly 1&2
A night in Sickbay
Two Days and Two Nights
Desert Crossing
The Andorian Incident
Shadows of P'Jem
The expanse
The Xindi
E squared (E2, whatever I don't know if you can change font size here)
The catwalk
First Flight
United
Anzati Prime
Fusion
Dear Doctor
Cold Station 12
Minefield
the forge
Kirshara
28 out of 98 from memory after just waking up from a nap an't that bad
Everywhere I look, people are screaming about how bad Cryptic is.
What's my position?
That people should know what they're screaming about!
(paraphrased from "The Newsroom)
The TRIBBLE poor writing is what got Enterprise axed.
It was no more 'TRIBBLE poor' then what came before in the TNG era. Hell, if 'TRIBBLE poor' writing was all it took to get a Star trek series cancelled, TNG wouldn't have made it past Season One.
Formerly known as Armsman from June 2008 to June 20, 2012 PWE ARC Drone says: "Your STO forum community as you have known it is ended...Display names are irrelevant...Any further sense of community is irrelevant...Resistance is futile...You will be assimilated..."
A major stumbling block: "Star Trek's" licensing and merchandising rights are spread over two media conglomerates with competing goals. The rights to the original television series from the 1960s remained with CBS after it split off from Paramounts corporate parent Viacom in 2006, while the studio retained the rights to the film series. CBS also held onto the ability to create future Star Trek TV shows.
Paramount must license the Star Trek characters from CBS Consumer Products for film merchandising.
Much to the dismay of Bad Robot, CBS' merchandising arm continued to create memorabilia and products based on the cast of the original 1960s series and market them to Trekkies. The production company did market research and found that there was brand confusion between Abrams' rebooted Enterprise crew and the one starring William Shatner and DeForest Kelley.
TheWrap has learned that Bad Robot asked CBS to stop making products featuring the original cast, but talks broke down over money. The network was making roughly $20 million a year on that merchandise and had no incentive to play nice with its former corporate brother, the individual said.
Ahhh, the old game of Chinese Whispers, also known as Telephone. Never grows old, does it? Thanks for tracking down the origin of that ridiculous "JJ tried destroying the Prime Universe" rumor. I was getting tired of responding with "citation needed" every damn time I saw it.
Brand confusion is a common enough problem that it's understandable that he tried doing this. Not particularly wise, though, knowing how illogically prone to nerd rage Star Trek fans are, but understandable.
To be honest, I'm hoping they just give the show a total reboot (not JJ Trek). Make space feel immense and mysterious (which Trek seemed to fail at about halfway through TNG and onwards). Keep the magic science to as little as possible, with no holodecks and no replicators. Give the magic science rules it has to stick to (no transporting through shields). No technobabble.
Good characterisation is a must, something which Trek fails quite badly at outside of TOS and DS9
No holodecks, sure, but replicators are implied by cargo transporters (keep the pattern stored in the buffer, reconstitute as needed from elements in storage). Besides, it avoids things like Rupert in Mass Effect 2.
("So let me get this straight. The same guy who fixes our plumbing does the cooking?"
To be honest, I'm hoping they just give the show a total reboot (not JJ Trek). Make space feel immense and mysterious (which Trek seemed to fail at about halfway through TNG and onwards). Keep the magic science to as little as possible, with no holodecks and no replicators. Give the magic science rules it has to stick to (no transporting through shields). No technobabble.
Good characterisation is a must, something which Trek fails quite badly at outside of TOS and DS9
Finally it must not be targeted at sci-fi nerds.
So basically you want to watch Babylon 5.
It's not coming back, dude. I know with X Files making a comeback that everyone is hoping their favorite series can come around as well, but you need to face fact that B5 is not going to be on that list.
Let them go, Jim.
Just let them go......
"A life is like a garden. Perfect moments can be had, but not preserved, except in memory. LLAP"
Why bother? STO is not canon so what happens in STO won't affect any TV series or movies set after Nemesis. STO and the TV series are set in different universes.
Presumably if I was planning on setting a series in 2414 after the Iconian War, then by broad strokes I'd make large portions of STO canon in the process. Not the absurdly rapid rise through the ranks that players undergo, of course, but the general details of the story missions, ship designs, etc.
The problem is, that would greatly limit the stories our devs could tell because once that series started our devs couldn't do anything that would contradict what that series sets up as being canon starting 2414.
True, I suppose, though that's why I'd personally carefully avoid giving too many details about the Iconian War besides the fact that it ended with an Alliance victory.
Mostly what I want is a Trek series wherein a very, very important question can be regularly brought up and asked, at least throughout the first season: is it even possible for the Federation and the Klingon Empire to have permanent peace? Now, such a question could be focused on in a series set, say, post-Trek VI, but I'd prefer to set it in the future future, not the past future.
There were no "anti-Enterprise" campaigns. Gods, no! There were campaigns to get Berman and Braga the hell away from our franchise, but why would anyone campaign to get rid of the only Trek going then?
Good question. I rather remember at least one party being thrown, however, as well as regularly having to defend it online against numerous detractors who wanted it off the air. Indeed I had to put up with that from day one. One of the very first Trek debates I got into ever was over the fact that Enterprise featured Klingons with head-ridges.
name more than three ENT episodes by title.
Assuming that two-parters with the same title don't count as two distinct episodes...
In a Mirror, Darkly
Shockwave
Broken Bow
A Night in Sickbay
Shadows of P'Jem
Storm Front
Terra Prime
The Expanse
The Aenar
And yes...I like all these episodes. Even Storm Front. Especially Storm Front. The frell is there not to like about time traveling TRIBBLE lizard men? Anyone who doesn't like that is severely lacking in the soul department.
This is actually more than I can do for any Trek series other than TOS, and that simply due to sheer cultural osmosis. But then I don't tend to remember episode titles. What I do remember is episodes, and more Enterprise episodes or episode arcs stood out to me than in any other series, even TNG (with TNG it mostly boils down to "the Borg episodes" "the Q episodes" "The pilot" "the finale" "First Contact" and "Yesterday's Enterprise"...though admittedly the last is my favorite Trek episode from any series). Most of TNG just blurs together for me save for a few major standouts.
(...for the record most every DS9 episode that I've watched thus far is boiling down to "that episode that's kind of like that Babylon 5 episode, but somehow not quite as good," except the Ferengi episodes, which are hilarious; and the Mirror Universe episodes, which are really lackluster compared to what I would have wanted to see them do with the Mirror Universe)
but you need to face fact that B5 is not going to be on that list.
I love Babylon 5, which is precisely why I don't want to see a reboot in any fashion. It'd be like trying to reboot Treasure Island. You can adaptTreasure Island, but you can't reboot it.
The BBC tried to reboot it with that godawful miniseries. It was godawful. Which is kind of amazing because if not for how they handled Squire Trelawny it could have been amazing. But by turning Trelawny into a villain they just killed the entire thing for me. Well, that, plus giving us scenes of what Hawkins' mother is up to back in England. I really, really, really don't care what Hawkins' mother is up to back in England.
Now, mind, and getting back to B5...I would be onboard with a prequel series that tells the story of the Dilgar War. Maybe. Mmmmayyybe.
I love Babylon 5, which is precisely why I don't want to see a reboot in any fashion. It'd be like trying to reboot Treasure Island. You can adaptTreasure Island, but you can't reboot it.
You know, somewhere in Hollywood, Jerry Bruckheimer just got a cash boner and it's all your fault.
Look for Bruckheimer's Treasure Island in theaters 2016 starring Johnny Depp as John Silver.
"A life is like a garden. Perfect moments can be had, but not preserved, except in memory. LLAP"
my main gripe with enterprise is the fact that the tech looked better than TOS, and i'm a TOS lover b/c of the brite colors of the sets.
How technology looks has nothing to do with how advanced it is. Besides, consider that in "In a Mirror, Darkly" the Terrans of the Mirror Universe gush over how advanced everything in Defiant is.
There was a clip at some premier where someone questioned him about the possibility of a show, and he said the studio wasn't interested. The look of humiliation/shame in his eyes made it clear thst the studio wasn't interested in working with him (And why would they, he had, I believe it was three series' cancelled last year )
Oh, please. :rolleyes: Do you know how many series get cancelled every year? Do you know that even successful producers of one show can have another show cancelled?
Alias, LOST, and Fringe were quite successful for Abrams and his company (all three shows got beyond the ever-important 100-episode mark). Abrams has also had plenty of success on the silver screen, both financially and with audiences. Oh, yeah... and let's not forget that Disney/Lucasfilm would not take "no" for an answer in swooping up Abrams for The Force Awakens.
Studios are completely interested in working with Abrams. Production companies produce things (duh), so a true sign of studios "not wanting to work" with Abrams would be his company shutting down. And that certainly isn't happening.
Ahhh, the old game of Chinese Whispers, also known as Telephone. Never grows old, does it? Thanks for tracking down the origin of that ridiculous "JJ tried destroying the Prime Universe" rumor. I was getting tired of responding with "citation needed" every damn time I saw it.
Brand confusion is a common enough problem that it's understandable that he tried doing this. Not particularly wise, though, knowing how illogically prone to nerd rage Star Trek fans are, but understandable.
It's the same reason why Disney gutted the Star Wars "extended universe."
You watch, too... Disney is about to do with Star Wars what Abrams wanted to do with the Star Trek universe. Disney is gonna make a universe-churning, money-making machine that would make Rick Berman wet his pants. Trek fans are gonna say, "See? Why can't we have that?!"
...Trek fans are gonna say, "See? Why can't we have that?!"
We almost did.
I think I just threw up in my mouth...a little.
I'm a Trek fan of 25+ years now...I would never wish we had anything like Star Wars...except it's marketing attention.
If Star Trek had merchandise of every kind in every store all over the world, it would be selling merchandise of every kind in every store all over the world.
For example, how the toy merchandising and sales are handled.
Two things sell big in this world: Sex & toys.
However, the Trek toys are existent, but not nearly as accessible as the Wars toys.
Example: Every Walmart I have ever been through, has about half of a toy aisle filled with Star Wars.
So, of course Star Wars will sell in that store. (And this is even when they DO NOT have a movie out or an animated series currently "on the air".)
They have NOTHING Star Trek in the toys aisle.
So, of course Star Trek will NOT sell in that store. (And this is even when it DOES have a movie out or an upcoming movie is being otherwise having the **** promoted out of it without actually SELLING anything except an idea...and maybe some posters.)
It's exactly the same problem as when I worked in their Toy department for 4+ years.
I'd say to one of the Managers "Customers keep asking for [product x]. Why don't we sell []?"
They'd come back a couple of days later, and say "Corporate said we can't sell [product x] because [product x] doesn't sell in our area."
I'd reply with "Well, since we're the only store IN this area, maybe [product x] would sell in this area if we...i don't know...had [product x] to sell?"
They always said "That would make sense. This is Walmart; When has Walmart ever made sense?"
I've had that same experience with that same conversation at EVERY store I have worked at in the past 25 years.
Unfortunately, people still seem to think there's not enough "Trekkies" in the world to make any money off of...which is b.s..
We're here; the problem is that no one wants to sell anything we want.
Corporations think Star Wars is more profitable because it makes a bigger profit, but it only makes a bigger profit because corporation THINK it is more profitable.
It's a vicious circle of fallacy.
That's my 2 cents.
Then again, I'm running on 2 hours of sleep in 38 hours after having worked 8 days in a row at a Deli, and I have been out of A.D.D. medicine for 2 days...so...yeah...forgive me.
Stay shiny ;-)
"Join Date: Jun 2012" Says Cryptic's "new" forum system. I've been here since a week before launch, but SOME stuff just didn't carry over through multiple system changes/updates. :rolleyes:
I'm a Trek fan of 25+ years now...I would never wish we had anything like Star Wars...except it's marketing attention.
This was my point, LOL... hence my "universe-churning, money-making machine" comment. :P
Star Wars toys have always been top sellers, and I believe that franchise is credited with the "toy & merchandise craze" that many franchises now mimic. Short of Disney or maybe comic book franchises, Star Wars paved the way for marketing through toys (and, now, Disney owns both Star Wars and Marvel).
Anyhoo... my point was that Abrams & Bad Robot, who love to do multi-layered universe building through comics, ARGs, and the like, wanted to do something that surpassed Trek's popularity in the '90s. This is likely why they started caring about "brand confusion," and likely why CBS wouldn't play ball (I bet CBS wouldn't have gotten enough of the $$$ to make it worth it).
You think Trek was everywhere in the heyday of the Berman era? Wait until Disney gets the Star Wars machine cranking... and they have no issues of IP ownership, like Trek does (likely why Abrams went to direct Episode VII).
True, I suppose, though that's why I'd personally carefully avoid giving too many details about the Iconian War besides the fact that it ended with an Alliance victory.
But what about after the Iconian War? Are you expecting STO to shut down as soon as that story is concluded? If not, having a Trek series set such a short amount of time after 2410 would still greatly limit our devs freedom to tell any other big stories.
The worst of the TNG episodes were still better than the best episodes of Enterprise. Face it, Enterprise, despite having a solid cast was a stinker due to bad writing and having Brannon Braga in charge of it.
That man is the one who pulled the chain to flush Enterprise, and Star Trek down the crapper.
We agree.
And the reason why I'm willing to give Abrams a pass, unlike Braga, is that Abrams has only had about 5 hours of produced Trek under his belt. Braga, on the other hand, worked on two series and 3 movies before taking on Enterprise. Braga had PLENTY of experience in the Trek franchise, yet refused to learn from the mistakes of that era... and he didn't really branch out as a writer.
Plus, Braga wrote & produced much of Trek's down years... Abrams did not write his two movies, so it's silly to solely blame him for the missteps of the reboot movies (though many do).
But what about after the Iconian War? Are you expecting STO to shut down as soon as that story is concluded? If not, having a Trek series set such a short amount of time after 2410 would still greatly limit our devs freedom to tell any other big stories.
Fair enough, though I don't see why STO and the proposed-TV series couldn't exist side by side as slightly-different continuities that branch off. The fact that the Pokemon TV show doesn't follow the Pokemon games doesn't seem to hurt either.
The worst of the TNG episodes were still better than the best episodes of Enterprise.
There is nothing in Trek canon worse than "Code of Honor." I'll take "Dear Doctor" over that drek any way of the week, and don't lie, you would too. I'll take VOY's "Threshold" over "Code of Honor"; at least "Threshold" is merely bad rather than bad and racist.
For that matter, just...Season 1 of TNG. Leaving aside "Code of Honor," there is:
- The Last Outpost - wherein the Ferengi, intended to replace the Klingons as main antagnosts for the Federation, are utterly mishandled.
- Lonely Amongst Us - which seems to exist for no other reason than for McFadden and Stewart to act ridiculous.
- Justice - wherein exactly how stupid the Prime Directive can be comes up. And also has Trek's take on God, which never goes well. Never. Not even once.
- Hide and Q - by far the worst Q episode in TNG, at least they got it out of the way early.
- Angel One - An episode that is to sexism what "Code of Honor" is to racism.
- Heart of Glory - Slow, mediocre acting, bog-standard Klingon episode.
- Skin of Evil - remarkable only for killing off Tasha Yar, the best thing to happen to her character (since it would go on to give us "Yesterday's Enterprise" and the half-Romulan Sela, though Sela was herself very underused). Armus is totally nonthreatening even after doing that.
- Conspiracy - wherein Trek does its take on Invasion of the Body Snatchers in a desperate attempt to replace the Ferengi, and fails utterly.
-The Neutral Zone - a potentially good episode ruined by the 21st century humans and the endless pontification of Picard about how much better humans from his time are.
There is nothing in Trek canon worse than "Code of Honor." I'll take "Dear Doctor" over that drek any way of the week, and don't lie, you would too. I'll take VOY's "Threshold" over "Code of Honor"; at least "Threshold" is merely bad rather than bad and racist.
For that matter, just...Season 1 of TNG. Leaving aside "Code of Honor," there is:
- The Last Outpost - wherein the Ferengi, intended to replace the Klingons as main antagnosts for the Federation, are utterly mishandled.
- Lonely Amongst Us - which seems to exist for no other reason than for McFadden and Stewart to act ridiculous.
- Justice - wherein exactly how stupid the Prime Directive can be comes up. And also has Trek's take on God, which never goes well. Never. Not even once.
- Hide and Q - by far the worst Q episode in TNG, at least they got it out of the way early.
- Angel One - An episode that is to sexism what "Code of Honor" is to racism.
- Heart of Glory - Slow, mediocre acting, bog-standard Klingon episode.
- Skin of Evil - remarkably only for killing off Tasha Yar, the best thing to happen to her character (since it would go on to give us "Yesterday's Enterprise" and the half-Romulan Sela, though Sela was herself very underused). Armus is totally nonthreatening even after doing that.
- Conspiracy - wherein Trek does its take on Invasion of the Body Snatchers in a desperate attempt to replace the Ferengi, and fails utterly.
-The Neutral Zone - a potentially good episode ruined by the 21st century humans and the endless pontification of Picard about how much better humans from his time are.
Yeah the first season of TNG was not good.
Your pain runs deep.
Let us explore it... together. Each man hides a secret pain. It must be exposed and reckoned with. It must be dragged from the darkness and forced into the light. Share your pain. Share your pain with me... and gain strength from the sharing.
The best episode of it is the pilot, and I'm pretty sure that the sheer strength of the pilot, the fact that the episodes I didn't mention above are all okay, and the strength of the brand name, is what carried it into Season 2.
Where we get McCoy's distaff counterpart and are all left wondering how TNG ever made it to Season 3.
The worst of the TNG episodes were still better than the best episodes of Enterprise.
Are you seriously going to sit there and try to tell me that "Code of Honor", "The Naked Now", and "Justice" were better written than "Twilight", "Terra Prime", and "In a Mirror Darkly"??
The only reason you can look at TNG through those rose-colored glasses that ignore the craptastic first season and a half is because TNG was in first-run syndication, not on a network, so its ratings weren't such a big deal. If TNG had been on a network, and if the Internet had been a big deal back in the '80s, we would never have seen "The Best of Both Worlds", "Parallels", or "All Good Things...", because between the low ratings and the internet screaming the producers would have been convinced they had a flop on their hands and dropped the whole thing.
(And there were screams indeed. You thought you heard people complain about ENT? Oh, man, the whining from the old-school Trekkies - "Picard is too old! What do you mean, a captain who holds committee meetings? And what's up with this chick on the bridge who's always 'feeling' things?" TNG committed the great sin of not being a continuation of TOS, and it took a lot of people a long time to forgive it for that.)
There was TRIBBLE writing on ENT, don't get me wrong - who in the name of sanity approved the script where the A-plot was Trip getting pregnant, for instance? - but if you think the first couple of seasons of TNG were some sort of master class in TV writing, I suggest you review. They're all available on Netflix, or on DVD.
Edited to add: Oh, and by the bye, if we're taking longevity of fandom as some sort of validation of our opinions - one of my earliest memories is of watching that grand old Connie gliding across a planet that looked like my dad's bowling ball (I can't tell what episode that was any more, because all I can find are the remastered versions and their planets all look like planets, but it would have been in Season 2 in all likelihood). I hated Filmation's animation style, but I watched the animated series anyway, because it was at least new Star Trek. The first time I went to see The Motionless Picture, I missed the Klingon cruisers getting patterned for data storage, because it was a family trip and two of my sisters-in-law were pregnant, and asked me to refill their soda cups because of their heartburn.
In short, I've been a fan of this franchise since 1967. Don't come around here thinking you're going to impress me with a mere quarter-century of fandom.
Edited to add more: Ninja'd repeatedly. My kids kept distracting me. And rambow, I'd managed to forget about "Angel One". Curse you for reminding me!
Are you seriously going to sit there and try to tell me that "Code of Honor", "The Naked Now", and "Justice" were better written than "Twilight", "Terra Prime", and "In a Mirror Darkly"??
The only reason you can look at TNG through those rose-colored glasses that ignore the craptastic first season and a half is because TNG was in first-run syndication, not on a network, so its ratings weren't such a big deal. If TNG had been on a network, and if the Internet had been a big deal back in the '80s, we would never have seen "The Best of Both Worlds", "Parallels", or "All Good Things...", because between the low ratings and the internet screaming the producers would have been convinced they had a flop on their hands and dropped the whole thing.
(And there were screams indeed. You thought you heard people complain about ENT? Oh, man, the whining from the old-school Trekkies - "Picard is too old! What do you mean, a captain who holds committee meetings? And what's up with this chick on the bridge who's always 'feeling' things?" TNG committed the great sin of not being a continuation of TOS, and it took a lot of people a long time to forgive it for that.)
There was TRIBBLE writing on ENT, don't get me wrong - who in the name of sanity approved the script where the A-plot was Trip getting pregnant, for instance? - but if you think the first couple of seasons of TNG were some sort of master class in TV writing, I suggest you review. They're all available on Netflix, or on DVD.
Edited to add: Oh, and by the bye, if we're taking longevity of fandom as some sort of validation of our opinions - one of my earliest memories is of watching that grand old Connie gliding across a planet that looked like my dad's bowling ball (I can't tell what episode that was any more, because all I can find are the remastered versions and their planets all look like planets, but it would have been in Season 2 in all likelihood). I hated Filmation's animation style, but I watched the animated series anyway, because it was at least new Star Trek. The first time I went to see The Motionless Picture, I missed the Klingon cruisers getting patterned for data storage, because it was a family trip and two of my sisters-in-law were pregnant, and asked me to refill their soda cups because of their heartburn.
In short, I've been a fan of this franchise since 1967. Don't come around here thinking you're going to impress me with a mere quarter-century of fandom.
Edited to add more: Ninja'd repeatedly. My kids kept distracting me. And rambow, I'd managed to forget about "Angel One". Curse you for reminding me!
Fans tend to paint over the fact that TNG was generally hated by Trekkers. It's why I laugh at the hate for the JJ films...its very similar for the hate TNG had. I remember the two most popular complaints I would hear was the look of the ENT-D and having a Klingon officer was sacrilegious
Your pain runs deep.
Let us explore it... together. Each man hides a secret pain. It must be exposed and reckoned with. It must be dragged from the darkness and forced into the light. Share your pain. Share your pain with me... and gain strength from the sharing.
The best episode of it is the pilot, and I'm pretty sure that the sheer strength of the pilot, the fact that the episodes I didn't mention above are all okay, and the strength of the brand name, is what carried it into Season 2.
Where we get McCoy's distaff counterpart and are all left wondering how TNG ever made it to Season 3.
even the pilot was not good. I remember reading somewhere that Patrick Stewart thought the show wasn't going to make it after filming a scene...I am willing to bet that scene was the one where he walks on the bridge and says something like "Mr Data you have to admit our orders are difficult". That scene is so awkward.
Your pain runs deep.
Let us explore it... together. Each man hides a secret pain. It must be exposed and reckoned with. It must be dragged from the darkness and forced into the light. Share your pain. Share your pain with me... and gain strength from the sharing.
This was my point, LOL... hence my "universe-churning, money-making machine" comment. :P
Star Wars toys have always been top sellers, and I believe that franchise is credited with the "toy & merchandise craze" that many franchises now mimic. Short of Disney or maybe comic book franchises, Star Wars paved the way for marketing through toys (and, now, Disney owns both Star Wars and Marvel).
Anyhoo... my point was that Abrams & Bad Robot, who love to do multi-layered universe building through comics, ARGs, and the like, wanted to do something that surpassed Trek's popularity in the '90s. This is likely why they started caring about "brand confusion," and likely why CBS wouldn't play ball (I bet CBS wouldn't have gotten enough of the $$$ to make it worth it).
You think Trek was everywhere in the heyday of the Berman era? Wait until Disney gets the Star Wars machine cranking... and they have no issues of IP ownership, like Trek does (likely why Abrams went to direct Episode VII).
Thank you for clarifying that.
I figured that's what you meant about the marketing.
As far as the rest of your comment here, I would make the same assumptions.
Only time will tell.
All I know for sure is that I hope the J.J. Trek universe dies soon, and we get something a little more traditional.
I liked the more exciting pace, and direction of the writing in the new Star Trek movies, but it just feels TOO different.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not like some annoying "Genwunner"; I'd just like to see the decades-long universe that was already established be picked up & continued at some point.
I love a lot of the story I've seen in STO, and often wish Cryptic's writers were on-staff with a new Trek T.V. series.
Stuff like this Iconian Invasion angle they've started would likely generate a HUGE draw to the small screen in regards to an audience.
That's just what I'D like to see, anyway.
"Join Date: Jun 2012" Says Cryptic's "new" forum system. I've been here since a week before launch, but SOME stuff just didn't carry over through multiple system changes/updates. :rolleyes:
But the '09 movie was traditional. Action, adventure, Kirk saving the day with a combination of fisticuffs and cool dialog - it's what we were really hoping for from TMP.
When people say "I wish the JJ films were more like Star Trek." they really mean "I wish the JJ films were more like Star Trek The Next Generation."
Your pain runs deep.
Let us explore it... together. Each man hides a secret pain. It must be exposed and reckoned with. It must be dragged from the darkness and forced into the light. Share your pain. Share your pain with me... and gain strength from the sharing.
Comments
I can see the appeal
Link bad
Thank you for the time...
Cryptic, would you actulaly like me to spend actual Money? It's Simple:
without looking off the top of my head (I swear) and in no particular order
Broken Bow
Shockwave 1&2
Carbon Creek
Regeneration
Terra Nova
Terra Prime
These Are the Voyages
In a Mirror Darkly 1&2
A night in Sickbay
Two Days and Two Nights
Desert Crossing
The Andorian Incident
Shadows of P'Jem
The expanse
The Xindi
E squared (E2, whatever I don't know if you can change font size here)
The catwalk
First Flight
United
Anzati Prime
Fusion
Dear Doctor
Cold Station 12
Minefield
the forge
Kirshara
28 out of 98 from memory after just waking up from a nap an't that bad
What's my position?
That people should know what they're screaming about!
(paraphrased from "The Newsroom)
It was no more 'TRIBBLE poor' then what came before in the TNG era. Hell, if 'TRIBBLE poor' writing was all it took to get a Star trek series cancelled, TNG wouldn't have made it past Season One.
PWE ARC Drone says: "Your STO forum community as you have known it is ended...Display names are irrelevant...Any further sense of community is irrelevant...Resistance is futile...You will be assimilated..."
Ahhh, the old game of Chinese Whispers, also known as Telephone. Never grows old, does it? Thanks for tracking down the origin of that ridiculous "JJ tried destroying the Prime Universe" rumor. I was getting tired of responding with "citation needed" every damn time I saw it.
Brand confusion is a common enough problem that it's understandable that he tried doing this. Not particularly wise, though, knowing how illogically prone to nerd rage Star Trek fans are, but understandable.
Good characterisation is a must, something which Trek fails quite badly at outside of TOS and DS9
Finally it must not be targeted at sci-fi nerds.
Daizen - Lvl 60 Tactical - Eclipse
Selia - Lvl 60 Tactical - Eclipse
("So let me get this straight. The same guy who fixes our plumbing does the cooking?"
"I wash my hands! ...most of the time.")
So basically you want to watch Babylon 5.
It's not coming back, dude. I know with X Files making a comeback that everyone is hoping their favorite series can come around as well, but you need to face fact that B5 is not going to be on that list.
Let them go, Jim.
Just let them go......
-Leonard Nimoy, RIP
Presumably if I was planning on setting a series in 2414 after the Iconian War, then by broad strokes I'd make large portions of STO canon in the process. Not the absurdly rapid rise through the ranks that players undergo, of course, but the general details of the story missions, ship designs, etc.
True, I suppose, though that's why I'd personally carefully avoid giving too many details about the Iconian War besides the fact that it ended with an Alliance victory.
Mostly what I want is a Trek series wherein a very, very important question can be regularly brought up and asked, at least throughout the first season: is it even possible for the Federation and the Klingon Empire to have permanent peace? Now, such a question could be focused on in a series set, say, post-Trek VI, but I'd prefer to set it in the future future, not the past future.
Good question. I rather remember at least one party being thrown, however, as well as regularly having to defend it online against numerous detractors who wanted it off the air. Indeed I had to put up with that from day one. One of the very first Trek debates I got into ever was over the fact that Enterprise featured Klingons with head-ridges.
Assuming that two-parters with the same title don't count as two distinct episodes...
In a Mirror, Darkly
Shockwave
Broken Bow
A Night in Sickbay
Shadows of P'Jem
Storm Front
Terra Prime
The Expanse
The Aenar
And yes...I like all these episodes. Even Storm Front. Especially Storm Front. The frell is there not to like about time traveling TRIBBLE lizard men? Anyone who doesn't like that is severely lacking in the soul department.
This is actually more than I can do for any Trek series other than TOS, and that simply due to sheer cultural osmosis. But then I don't tend to remember episode titles. What I do remember is episodes, and more Enterprise episodes or episode arcs stood out to me than in any other series, even TNG (with TNG it mostly boils down to "the Borg episodes" "the Q episodes" "The pilot" "the finale" "First Contact" and "Yesterday's Enterprise"...though admittedly the last is my favorite Trek episode from any series). Most of TNG just blurs together for me save for a few major standouts.
(...for the record most every DS9 episode that I've watched thus far is boiling down to "that episode that's kind of like that Babylon 5 episode, but somehow not quite as good," except the Ferengi episodes, which are hilarious; and the Mirror Universe episodes, which are really lackluster compared to what I would have wanted to see them do with the Mirror Universe)
I love Babylon 5, which is precisely why I don't want to see a reboot in any fashion. It'd be like trying to reboot Treasure Island. You can adapt Treasure Island, but you can't reboot it.
The BBC tried to reboot it with that godawful miniseries. It was godawful. Which is kind of amazing because if not for how they handled Squire Trelawny it could have been amazing. But by turning Trelawny into a villain they just killed the entire thing for me. Well, that, plus giving us scenes of what Hawkins' mother is up to back in England. I really, really, really don't care what Hawkins' mother is up to back in England.
Now, mind, and getting back to B5...I would be onboard with a prequel series that tells the story of the Dilgar War. Maybe. Mmmmayyybe.
You know, somewhere in Hollywood, Jerry Bruckheimer just got a cash boner and it's all your fault.
Look for Bruckheimer's Treasure Island in theaters 2016 starring Johnny Depp as John Silver.
-Leonard Nimoy, RIP
Regeneration - kinda bleh
my main gripe with enterprise is the fact that the tech looked better than TOS, and i'm a TOS lover b/c of the brite colors of the sets.
never got to see the rest of 'enterprise' because of UPN futzing up
How technology looks has nothing to do with how advanced it is. Besides, consider that in "In a Mirror, Darkly" the Terrans of the Mirror Universe gush over how advanced everything in Defiant is.
The "prime" universe continuity is fine. There is no "restoration" necessary.
Oh, please. :rolleyes: Do you know how many series get cancelled every year? Do you know that even successful producers of one show can have another show cancelled?
Alias, LOST, and Fringe were quite successful for Abrams and his company (all three shows got beyond the ever-important 100-episode mark). Abrams has also had plenty of success on the silver screen, both financially and with audiences. Oh, yeah... and let's not forget that Disney/Lucasfilm would not take "no" for an answer in swooping up Abrams for The Force Awakens.
Studios are completely interested in working with Abrams. Production companies produce things (duh), so a true sign of studios "not wanting to work" with Abrams would be his company shutting down. And that certainly isn't happening.
It's the same reason why Disney gutted the Star Wars "extended universe."
You watch, too... Disney is about to do with Star Wars what Abrams wanted to do with the Star Trek universe. Disney is gonna make a universe-churning, money-making machine that would make Rick Berman wet his pants. Trek fans are gonna say, "See? Why can't we have that?!"
We almost did.
I think I just threw up in my mouth...a little.
I'm a Trek fan of 25+ years now...I would never wish we had anything like Star Wars...except it's marketing attention.
If Star Trek had merchandise of every kind in every store all over the world, it would be selling merchandise of every kind in every store all over the world.
For example, how the toy merchandising and sales are handled.
Two things sell big in this world: Sex & toys.
However, the Trek toys are existent, but not nearly as accessible as the Wars toys.
Example: Every Walmart I have ever been through, has about half of a toy aisle filled with Star Wars.
So, of course Star Wars will sell in that store. (And this is even when they DO NOT have a movie out or an animated series currently "on the air".)
They have NOTHING Star Trek in the toys aisle.
So, of course Star Trek will NOT sell in that store. (And this is even when it DOES have a movie out or an upcoming movie is being otherwise having the **** promoted out of it without actually SELLING anything except an idea...and maybe some posters.)
It's exactly the same problem as when I worked in their Toy department for 4+ years.
I'd say to one of the Managers "Customers keep asking for [product x]. Why don't we sell []?"
They'd come back a couple of days later, and say "Corporate said we can't sell [product x] because [product x] doesn't sell in our area."
I'd reply with "Well, since we're the only store IN this area, maybe [product x] would sell in this area if we...i don't know...had [product x] to sell?"
They always said "That would make sense. This is Walmart; When has Walmart ever made sense?"
I've had that same experience with that same conversation at EVERY store I have worked at in the past 25 years.
Unfortunately, people still seem to think there's not enough "Trekkies" in the world to make any money off of...which is b.s..
We're here; the problem is that no one wants to sell anything we want.
Corporations think Star Wars is more profitable because it makes a bigger profit, but it only makes a bigger profit because corporation THINK it is more profitable.
It's a vicious circle of fallacy.
That's my 2 cents.
Then again, I'm running on 2 hours of sleep in 38 hours after having worked 8 days in a row at a Deli, and I have been out of A.D.D. medicine for 2 days...so...yeah...forgive me.
Stay shiny ;-)
This was my point, LOL... hence my "universe-churning, money-making machine" comment. :P
Star Wars toys have always been top sellers, and I believe that franchise is credited with the "toy & merchandise craze" that many franchises now mimic. Short of Disney or maybe comic book franchises, Star Wars paved the way for marketing through toys (and, now, Disney owns both Star Wars and Marvel).
Anyhoo... my point was that Abrams & Bad Robot, who love to do multi-layered universe building through comics, ARGs, and the like, wanted to do something that surpassed Trek's popularity in the '90s. This is likely why they started caring about "brand confusion," and likely why CBS wouldn't play ball (I bet CBS wouldn't have gotten enough of the $$$ to make it worth it).
You think Trek was everywhere in the heyday of the Berman era? Wait until Disney gets the Star Wars machine cranking... and they have no issues of IP ownership, like Trek does (likely why Abrams went to direct Episode VII).
But what about after the Iconian War? Are you expecting STO to shut down as soon as that story is concluded? If not, having a Trek series set such a short amount of time after 2410 would still greatly limit our devs freedom to tell any other big stories.
The-Grand-Nagus
Join Date: Sep 2008
We agree.
And the reason why I'm willing to give Abrams a pass, unlike Braga, is that Abrams has only had about 5 hours of produced Trek under his belt. Braga, on the other hand, worked on two series and 3 movies before taking on Enterprise. Braga had PLENTY of experience in the Trek franchise, yet refused to learn from the mistakes of that era... and he didn't really branch out as a writer.
Plus, Braga wrote & produced much of Trek's down years... Abrams did not write his two movies, so it's silly to solely blame him for the missteps of the reboot movies (though many do).
Fair enough, though I don't see why STO and the proposed-TV series couldn't exist side by side as slightly-different continuities that branch off. The fact that the Pokemon TV show doesn't follow the Pokemon games doesn't seem to hurt either.
There is nothing in Trek canon worse than "Code of Honor." I'll take "Dear Doctor" over that drek any way of the week, and don't lie, you would too. I'll take VOY's "Threshold" over "Code of Honor"; at least "Threshold" is merely bad rather than bad and racist.
For that matter, just...Season 1 of TNG. Leaving aside "Code of Honor," there is:
- The Last Outpost - wherein the Ferengi, intended to replace the Klingons as main antagnosts for the Federation, are utterly mishandled.
- Lonely Amongst Us - which seems to exist for no other reason than for McFadden and Stewart to act ridiculous.
- Justice - wherein exactly how stupid the Prime Directive can be comes up. And also has Trek's take on God, which never goes well. Never. Not even once.
- Hide and Q - by far the worst Q episode in TNG, at least they got it out of the way early.
- Angel One - An episode that is to sexism what "Code of Honor" is to racism.
- Heart of Glory - Slow, mediocre acting, bog-standard Klingon episode.
- Skin of Evil - remarkable only for killing off Tasha Yar, the best thing to happen to her character (since it would go on to give us "Yesterday's Enterprise" and the half-Romulan Sela, though Sela was herself very underused). Armus is totally nonthreatening even after doing that.
- Conspiracy - wherein Trek does its take on Invasion of the Body Snatchers in a desperate attempt to replace the Ferengi, and fails utterly.
-The Neutral Zone - a potentially good episode ruined by the 21st century humans and the endless pontification of Picard about how much better humans from his time are.
Yeah the first season of TNG was not good.
Let us explore it... together. Each man hides a secret pain. It must be exposed and reckoned with. It must be dragged from the darkness and forced into the light. Share your pain. Share your pain with me... and gain strength from the sharing.
The best episode of it is the pilot, and I'm pretty sure that the sheer strength of the pilot, the fact that the episodes I didn't mention above are all okay, and the strength of the brand name, is what carried it into Season 2.
Where we get McCoy's distaff counterpart and are all left wondering how TNG ever made it to Season 3.
The only reason you can look at TNG through those rose-colored glasses that ignore the craptastic first season and a half is because TNG was in first-run syndication, not on a network, so its ratings weren't such a big deal. If TNG had been on a network, and if the Internet had been a big deal back in the '80s, we would never have seen "The Best of Both Worlds", "Parallels", or "All Good Things...", because between the low ratings and the internet screaming the producers would have been convinced they had a flop on their hands and dropped the whole thing.
(And there were screams indeed. You thought you heard people complain about ENT? Oh, man, the whining from the old-school Trekkies - "Picard is too old! What do you mean, a captain who holds committee meetings? And what's up with this chick on the bridge who's always 'feeling' things?" TNG committed the great sin of not being a continuation of TOS, and it took a lot of people a long time to forgive it for that.)
There was TRIBBLE writing on ENT, don't get me wrong - who in the name of sanity approved the script where the A-plot was Trip getting pregnant, for instance? - but if you think the first couple of seasons of TNG were some sort of master class in TV writing, I suggest you review. They're all available on Netflix, or on DVD.
Edited to add: Oh, and by the bye, if we're taking longevity of fandom as some sort of validation of our opinions - one of my earliest memories is of watching that grand old Connie gliding across a planet that looked like my dad's bowling ball (I can't tell what episode that was any more, because all I can find are the remastered versions and their planets all look like planets, but it would have been in Season 2 in all likelihood). I hated Filmation's animation style, but I watched the animated series anyway, because it was at least new Star Trek. The first time I went to see The Motionless Picture, I missed the Klingon cruisers getting patterned for data storage, because it was a family trip and two of my sisters-in-law were pregnant, and asked me to refill their soda cups because of their heartburn.
In short, I've been a fan of this franchise since 1967. Don't come around here thinking you're going to impress me with a mere quarter-century of fandom.
Edited to add more: Ninja'd repeatedly. My kids kept distracting me. And rambow, I'd managed to forget about "Angel One". Curse you for reminding me!
Fans tend to paint over the fact that TNG was generally hated by Trekkers. It's why I laugh at the hate for the JJ films...its very similar for the hate TNG had. I remember the two most popular complaints I would hear was the look of the ENT-D and having a Klingon officer was sacrilegious
Let us explore it... together. Each man hides a secret pain. It must be exposed and reckoned with. It must be dragged from the darkness and forced into the light. Share your pain. Share your pain with me... and gain strength from the sharing.
even the pilot was not good. I remember reading somewhere that Patrick Stewart thought the show wasn't going to make it after filming a scene...I am willing to bet that scene was the one where he walks on the bridge and says something like "Mr Data you have to admit our orders are difficult". That scene is so awkward.
Let us explore it... together. Each man hides a secret pain. It must be exposed and reckoned with. It must be dragged from the darkness and forced into the light. Share your pain. Share your pain with me... and gain strength from the sharing.
Thank you for clarifying that.
I figured that's what you meant about the marketing.
As far as the rest of your comment here, I would make the same assumptions.
Only time will tell.
All I know for sure is that I hope the J.J. Trek universe dies soon, and we get something a little more traditional.
I liked the more exciting pace, and direction of the writing in the new Star Trek movies, but it just feels TOO different.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not like some annoying "Genwunner"; I'd just like to see the decades-long universe that was already established be picked up & continued at some point.
I love a lot of the story I've seen in STO, and often wish Cryptic's writers were on-staff with a new Trek T.V. series.
Stuff like this Iconian Invasion angle they've started would likely generate a HUGE draw to the small screen in regards to an audience.
That's just what I'D like to see, anyway.
To seek out new life and new civilizations... to boldly exterminate what no man has exterminated before.
Let us explore it... together. Each man hides a secret pain. It must be exposed and reckoned with. It must be dragged from the darkness and forced into the light. Share your pain. Share your pain with me... and gain strength from the sharing.