test content
Logo
What is the Arc Client?
Install Arc
Whomever decided BO needs to have 100% Crit chance
praxi5
Member Posts: 1,562 Arc User
Needs to be forced to code with an angry cat in their lap.
Srsly. It's garbage.
That is all.
Srsly. It's garbage.
That is all.
Post edited by praxi5 on
0
Comments
to many toys that boost crtD, it was a rather elegant solution in a vacuum. the guy behind it did get canned/left though a wile back.
It provides a more consistent experience at a lower level of damage than it did previously. The hope that it might appear worthwhile to PvE folks fell flat on its face though.
BO will never be of any use for PVE land. Not while the current version of BFAW exists.
What's funny, imho, is just how many issues one can trace back to FAW working the way it does...all sorts of complaints out there. I'm too lazy to type some out again or even link to the post I did recently. FAW is the Great Evil. :eek:
It was nerfed for the PvP guys as a PvP skill
Saphire.. Science ground......Ko'el Romulan space Tac
Leva........Tactical ground.....Koj Romulan space Eng
JJ-Verse will never be Canon or considered Lore...It will always be JJ-Verse
There were a series of nerfs to it after it got the 100% crit buff and people were doing 100k instakills. After the nerfs it was still less than useful in PVE.
Interestingly it did improve some of the lance-type weapons with high base damage that used BO mechanic internally and have high CritD bonus (eg, Romulan Plasma Hyperflux set bonus with Singularity Overcharge critd buff--hits for 20k per cycle sometimes)
If they ever make a queue with a few strong NPCs, single target powers would instantly become useful outside of PvE.
I don't think so. Even with few targets, the way BFAW and BO work now, you'll rack up more damage with BFAW. BO does its work in one shot but BFAW? You can keep critting and critting and critting and critting, on top of whatever attack buffs you have running. Since there's less targets, that means the damage is less diffused and you'll still rack up more dmg over time with BFAW.
Personally, I liked the first revamp of BO. The spike was large and appreciable in PVE. But that has major issues in PVP, esp with the Romulans that have long broken this game since LOR. The nerfs came to the revamped BO due to the PVP issues but now it's just pointless in PVE.
It's even more pointless on Intel ships since SS will be superior than BO on single targets. Even after the SS nerf. That's how bad BO is.
I'm kind of bored of the math I've got...I want to start calculating Critical Hit Chance Overflow.
Want fun math to do? Figure out the exact numbers on threat multipliers. :P
Here, have some dev quotes on the subject:
(part of second conversation edited to remove parts not relevant to threat)
SCM - Hive (S) - [02:31] DMG(DPS) - @jarvisandalfred: 30.62M(204.66K) - Fed Sci
Tacs are overrated.
Game's best wiki
Build questions? Look here!
Threat = BaseThreat * (1 + SumAllStrengthBoosts) * (1 + SumAllBonusBoosts) * (1 - RangePenalty)
But that would only be for Damage-type threat, cause as mentioned there would also be threat from other actions....heals and buffs. Would have to figure that debuffs would count as an offensive action and apply threat as well, yeah?
So it would be a case of having to work into that formula some manner of account for the action...damage, buff, heal, debuff, etc, right?
Would there even be both Strength and Bonus Threat modification taking place or would they all be a lump sum kind of deal, eh?
Also would need to get into some of the aggro dump/reduction abilities out there and work them into the mix, yeah?
Would get into some interesting testing, because it would be difficult with damage variance and getting two folks to choreograph their movement with a NPC that could be wobbling anywhere.
With the various skills generally providing ~50%/49.5% at 99...would one assume that Starship Threat Control did the same thing or would it provide a larger increase.
A G15 +Th provides +150%. 9 in Threat Control providing another 50%, eh? 200% Threat from those two alone?
But the way Bort stated that...1x to 100x...that's basically 100% to 10000%.
That kind of suggests that it's more of a sum thing than the formula I wondered about earlier. Which would also point to some of the complaints wondering if Threat Control worked, eh?
Cause if it was just...
Threat = BaseThreat * (1 + SumAllThreatModifiers)
...then the skill would be pretty useless as somebody moving in closer would obliterate that benefit.
But with the mention of CoH and Champs, we can actually do a quick search for some info on that and find the following: http://cityofheroes.wikia.com/wiki/Threat
The Champions wiki didn't...er...yeah. But anyway, the old CoH one has...
Threat = Damage * Debuff Mod * AT Mod * AI Mod * Range Mod * (TauntDurationRemaining * 1,000)
Where we don't have Archetypes nor Taunts in the same sense...kind of.
Which would kind of make it tough to get into it with what was said about how the Range Mod would affect things, eh?
Say both Tom and Jerry are doing 1000 Damage, eh?
Tom's @4km, so 1000 * (100 - 40) = 60000 Threat.
Jerry's @8km, so 1000 * (100 - 80) = 20000 Threat.
But that then gets into those modifiers and if they don't quite matter. Unless of course we're getting into one of those situations where the tooltips are...well...not quite right. Kind of like seeing a -10% that's actually just a -10. Is the +150% from that G14 actually just +150?
So for the example above, running it through the possible ways it might be done there compared to how it might be expected to be done...with say Jerry rocking the console.
+150 Threat
Tom's @4km, so 1000 * (100 - 40) = 60000 Threat.
Jerry's @8km, so (1000 + 150) * (100 - 80) = 23000 Threat.
or
Tom's @4km, so 1000 * (100 - 40) = 60000 Threat.
Jerry's @8km, so (1000 * (100 - 80)) + 150 = 20150 Threat.
+150% Threat
Tom's @4km, so 1000 * (100 - 40) = 60000 Threat.
Jerry's @8km, so 1000 * (100 - 80) * (1 + 1.5) = 50000 Threat.
With the +150, both end up being pretty low and easily getting lost there. If it were +150% on the other hand, if Jerry were to move to @7km, he'd be looking at 1000 * (100 - 70) * (1 + 1.5) = 75000 Threat and he'd pull the aggro from Tom.
If Jerry had 4x G14s, with it being +150 each instead of +150%, then with the initial ranges he'd be looking at 32000 or 20600 and couldn't touch Tom's aggro.
That just wouldn't do him much good at all then, eh? Can't believe that it's working in that fashion...hrmmm. Perhaps it's not working that way in another fashion?
Say it wasn't +1.5 but was +0.15 for one? So +0.6 for four?
Let's stick Tom and Jerry both at 4km, eh?
1000 * (100 - 40) * (1 + 0.6) = 96000 Threat
That wouldn't quite cover it though, eh?
Say Tom was doing 2000 damage and Jerry the 1000 still...
Tom: 2000 * (100 - 40) * (1 + 0.0) = 120000 Threat.
Jerry: 1000 * (100 - 40) * (1 + 0.6) = 96000 Threat.
Jerry would have a hard time trying to keep threat on anybody...unless he was doing near the same damage or more damage...at which point why did he bother, eh?
Unless of course one were to work in some -Th for Tom, eh? Nah, lol, Tom's not going to have all those console slots to waste trying to help Jerry tank. Not with it working at that kind of ratio.
So there would have to be more at play there - other things affecting it.
But trying to keep it simple, let's say that it was a separate type SumAll modifier there.
Let's say Jerry has Attract Fire, (+100%), 2x G14 +TH (+300%), and 6 Starship Threat Control (+40%???) going for him...for a total of +440%, eh?
Tom: 80000 * (100 - 40) * (1 + 0) = 4,800,000 Threat.
Jerry: 50000 * (100 - 40) * (1 + 4.4) = 16,200,000 Threat.
Have we seen such a situation where Jerry utilizing anything like that was able to do that? Even without Attract Fire, it would still be 13.2m Threat. Even without the Starship Threat Control, it would be 12m Threat.
But do we have anything approximating Archetypes/Threat Levels going on? Do we have potential Debuff Mods built into weapons? Would a Romulan Plasma weapon have a higher threat ratio going for it than an Antiproton weapon?
And getting back into that CoH formula and the possibility of there being multiple boosts working in different fashions, what would it mean if say the Attract Fire was working as an Archetype mod, while the +Th consoles were working like a Bonus and Threat Control like a Strength...?
Jerry: 50000 * (100 - 40) * (1 + 4.4) = 16,200,000 Threat.
...would become...
Jerry: 50000 * (100 - 40) * (1 + 1) * (1 + 0.4) * (1 + 3) = 33,600,000 Threat.
And yeah, heh, don't think that's what's happening, eh? Lol...that's getting more into how damage is bazinga, heh.
So I'm sitting here, having just previewed this post...when I remembered what thread we were in.
/viruslevelfacepalm
That's some good info. Would you mind posting that in a new thread so it can be discussed? It's a bit out of place here but man I learned a lot just reading it lol
Seems you don't even play the game or are a Noob
no one but a Noob even slots the skill in PvE or someone slots it just for its effect or fun
Beam Overload is a Non skill in PvE
Saphire.. Science ground......Ko'el Romulan space Tac
Leva........Tactical ground.....Koj Romulan space Eng
JJ-Verse will never be Canon or considered Lore...It will always be JJ-Verse
Edna's being sarcastic and there's no need for name calling.
not more than you are though.
My character Tsin'xing
so true...I am a nOOb ...a nOOb that kicks your a** and wrecks your ship even with 100% crtH
now weren't you supposed to be in a stf killing the main threat in this game....npcs?
You do realize that you talked to Edna who belongs to the veterans of the pvp-playerbase. You have no business talking down to him in such a disdainful manner. If he wants to he could bring you to your knees effortlessly even in a old-school JHAS with his Dual Heavy Lolly Lolaron Pwnies
Arguing about PvE content in this subforum is off-topic anyway.
-=Hannibal - Inner Circle PvP-Department=-
Hannibal's YouTube PvP-channel (under construction)
More Inner Circle PvP-Action worth watching from: Hank, Mira Theng and Zimbilimbim
Considering how the PvErs are... NPCs are a bigger threat than them.
If they fight NPCs it means they're intelligent. This means NPCs are more or equally intelligent than them, because there's no fun in fighting someone less intelligent than you.
That's a consequence of studying Physics theory from 8 AM to 7 PM.
My previous statement is scientifically correct as I've proven it. Fun fact: in Driveclub AI is smart and quite of a problem at hard difficulties, and generally less murderous than players in MP. That's why it's rather entertaining to do single player.