Sorry to break it to you, but let me correct your statement... Shield Power stopped affecting Shield Regen rate when Solanae Dyson Sphere got implemented...
During your test, you didn't notice that when you drop shield power, your shields take more damage? Because what I saw there wasn't reduced regen, it was reduced hardness...If it was affecting Shield Regen, the damage you would take on shields would be -exactly- the same, whether your shield power was maxed out or reduced to minimum.
The first bit...the SandyBrown bit:
If Shield Power stopped affecting Shield Regen with Season 8, then why does it match up pretty closely with what happened there?
15107 capacity shields. 15366.61 damage done after 7 seconds to drop them. Shield Regen would have kicked in after 6 seconds.
Suggests that our starting 54 wasn't exactly 54 and was higher.
The third bit...the YellowGreen bit:
That more Shield Regen than the listed 193.3 took place...suggests that Shield Power did play a part in it. There were no Shield Heals triggered - there was no Shield Distribution. More damage was done to the Shields than the Shield Capacity...the difference is greater than the Shield Regen of the Shields alone.
The second bit...the Yellow bit:
Notice dropping Shield Power? Shield Power didn't drop...Shield Power increased. MACO Shields...Power Conduit Link. The 54 to 64 range...reflecting the increase in potential Shield Power that could take place. There was no statement of reduced Regen, no state of reduced Shield Hardness....I'm dumbfounded where you got any of that from with what was posted.
We can take a look at the first hit there. Note, with Pattern Recognition there will be a debuff applied to self which increases Shield Penetration by 1.5% rather than increasing Shield Hardness by 1.5%. 6.5% damage goes to hull rather than 5.0% damage. We can actually see this by looking at it and knowing what the Hull Damage Resistance was (46.2%).
1743.33 * 0.935 = 1630.014
1240.25 / 1630.014 = 0.7609; ~76% damage, so ~24% Shield Hardness/Damage Reduction.
MACO Shields provide a 10% reduction to Energy Damage.
54 Shield Power provides ~15.12% (54 * 0.28); but that 54 is actually 54 is questionable at this point. Still...
So with the 54 likely being higher than 54; we're roughly in the neighborhood of where we'd expect to be.
What does the second hit offer us 0.4s later?
-1254.96,-887.199
61.6769,1764.01
61.6769 / 0.538 = 114.641 / 1764.01 = 0.06498; still at the ~6.5% instead of 5.0%
1764.01 * 0.935 = 1649.349
1254.96 / 1649.349 = 0.7609; ~76% again
This tells us that we haven't registered an increase to Shield Power yet from two hits to the MACO Shields and the expected Power Conduit Link.
Another second later and the third hit?
-1066.8,-777.674
54.0629,1546.24
54.0629 / 0.538 = 100.489 / 1546.24 = 0.06498; still at the ~6.5% instead of 5.0% (Pattern Recognition stacks every 15s in combat, we wouldn't have seen a change yet)
1546.24 * 0.935 = 1445.734
1066.8 / 1445.734 = 0.7379; 73.79%...an increase in Shield Hardness/Damage Reduction took place.
Say we try the formula with 56 instead of 54, yeah? 56 * 0.28 = 15.68; instead of 15.12 with the 54.
Almost 74...hrmmm...I'm wondering if I had the PWO Shield Power DOFF slotted for that test. Could have sworn I'd pulled that, but 74 vs. 54 would be explained by that. Nothing else could potentially explain it.
Let's check 0.6 seconds later with the fifth hit, eh?
Well, damn...it wouldn't explain the 64 from the third shot, but the 4th and 5th shot appear to reflect the PWO applying a +20.
* * * * *
Feels like all of this is getting a bit off on a tangent, when it was simply a post showing that over 15k damage was done before shields dropped instead of the displayed 7539; suggesting that the 7539 (even though it bounced back and forth to the 15107 during combat or briefly when slotting gear) was just a display issue.
Hell, later in the parse looking at it more closely...suggests that 6.25% instead of 6.5% bleed was taking place. There's nothing that would account for that decrease. The other possibility there would be damage resistance going from 46.2% to 50.8%. Again though, there's nothing that would account for that increase just like there was nothing to account for the potential decrease.
Which approaches that potential 74...but would mean that somehow bleed were reduced.
I need a cigarette and some caffeine...
edit: Speaking of Shield Frequency Modulation, though...I noticed it was mentioned that it's 10% is not being factored into the overall Shield Damage Reduction...
...but have you noticed what else it is doing?
As far as how it is affecting other shield heals?
As far as how it is affecting shield drains?
edit2: Noticed while looking over what gear might have been affecting/not affecting things on that particular test (again, it was just a quick test regarding the 7k vs. 15k)...that the Tachyon Pulse Platform console states it Reduces Damage to Shields by 2.5%...and er...that wasn't reflected on the first hit up there.
Doing a statistical analysis of virusdancers data indicates ksobanana is on to something. Warrants looking into Bort....imo
^^ This.
I see a dazzling anount of numbers, offering the perfect opportunity for Cryptic to dismiss this as a reporting error, which I hope won't happen. Bort said he would look into this independenty.
Sorry to break it to you, but let me correct your statement... Shield Power stopped affecting Shield Regen rate when Solanae Dyson Sphere got implemented...
During your test, you didn't notice that when you drop shield power, your shields take more damage? Because what I saw there wasn't reduced regen, it was reduced hardness... If it was affecting Shield Regen, the damage you would take on shields would be -exactly- the same, whether your shield power was maxed out or reduced to minimum.
x
Now, to the purpose of my posting:
... I have noticed the so called "tooltip problem"... The reason why most players don't notice any difference, so to speak, is because when they get hit on a shield facing, that shield facing will receive the damage and calculate the numbers "properly", while the others will remain at the basic size. HOWEVER, when the shield is fully healed, whether in combat or not, it will revert back to its basic shield amount... Only to increase again when it takes the next hit... Now, I have also noticed a break in performance on all shields... My ship was built and made to solo bosses on Elite, never die once, while being hammered by 8 or 9 ships at the same time. After the most recent patch, my shields can't handle beyond Normal. The reason for this is simple... Shield transfer rate is fully ignoring EPS Transfer Rate.
... No, its not the Captain EPS skill. Its EPS bonuses gained from consoles... Just like Shields aren't considering the Starship Shield Systems skill, nor bonus shield amount provided by consoles... As far as I know, the Captain EPS Skill isn't even working as intended but I'm not even going to go there... I'm going to focus on shields alone.
... This is more than just a display issue. There's a noticeable shield resilience bug because of this and, considering I've had my share of continuous Beta Testing on other games that are more recent that STO, I also know how to verify a bug as much as possible...
... I'm going to test an Elite Fleet Resilient Shield Array and verify if its ignoring the Hardness bonus.
Edit.:
I've found more issues during these testings. Shields are ignoring full stacks of Adaptive Shielding (Example, Elite Fleet Shields) and from Nanoprobe Field Generator. If the stacks don't max out, the bonus hardness is applied as intended but it becomes fully ignored as soon as it reaches the max number of stacks. It is also ignoring the bonus Damage Resistance provided by the Shield Frequency Modulator (For those that don't know because reasons, Its a Cruiser skill that provides both small and important bonus to the ship's shields.) while it applies the bonus regen rate from it.
[To be tested] I wouldn't be surprised if the damage resistance provided by the shields themselves were also being ignored...
Shield bugs I've detected during my tests:
- Display Issue
- EPS Transfer Rate being fully ignored
- Bonus Hardness being fully ignored after reaching maximum number of stacks
- Bonus damage resistance from 'Shield Frequency Modulator' being fully ignored.
So I switched out the MACO shields for the Kobali shields and dropped the Pattern Recognition trait. Also removed the Tachyon Platform and Conductive RCS. Only thing affecting Shield Damage Reduction should be the ~76 Shield Power providing ~21.28%; 78.72% damage being done.
15:03:13:01:32:53.2::Hunter Escort,C[12507 Space_Hirogen_Escort],,*,Willard the Rat,P[6114054@4209758 Willard the Rat@virusdancer],Tetryon Turret,Pn.2d1qqb1,Shield,,-1207.66,-825.302 15:03:13:01:32:53.2::Hunter Escort,C[12507 Space_Hirogen_Escort],,*,Willard the Rat,P[6114054@4209758 Willard the Rat@virusdancer],Tetryon Turret,Pn.2d1qqb1,Tetryon,Critical,91.7003,1704.76
1704.76 * 0.9 = 1534.284 * 0.7872 = 1207.7883648
Basically, the listed 76 isn't 76. But that matches up close enough when considering that about the ~76 Shield Power listed.
* * * * *
Switching on Shield Frequency Modulation should take us to ~29.152% (1 - (1 - 0.2128) * (1 - 0.1) = 0.29152); or 0.70848...70.848% damage being done.
15:03:13:01:41:08.2::Hunter Escort,C[12508 Space_Hirogen_Escort],,*,Willard the Rat,P[6114054@4209758 Willard the Rat@virusdancer],Dual Tetryon Cannons,Pn.D8djvs,Shield,,-461.815,-350.668 15:03:13:01:41:08.2::Hunter Escort,C[12508 Space_Hirogen_Escort],,*,Willard the Rat,P[6114054@4209758 Willard the Rat@virusdancer],Dual Tetryon Cannons,Pn.D8djvs,Tetryon,,45.567,736.622
15:03:13:01:41:08.6::Hunter Escort,C[12508 Space_Hirogen_Escort],,*,Willard the Rat,P[6114054@4209758 Willard the Rat@virusdancer],Dual Tetryon Cannons,Pn.D8djvs,Shield,,-542.515,-411.945 15:03:13:01:41:08.6::Hunter Escort,C[12508 Space_Hirogen_Escort],,*,Willard the Rat,P[6114054@4209758 Willard the Rat@virusdancer],Dual Tetryon Cannons,Pn.D8djvs,Tetryon,,45.7717,850.919
And again we're within range. Let me check a third hit.
15:03:13:01:41:09.0::Hunter Escort,C[12508 Space_Hirogen_Escort],,*,Willard the Rat,P[6114054@4209758 Willard the Rat@virusdancer],Dual Tetryon Cannons,Pn.D8djvs,Shield,,-580.997,-441.165 15:03:13:01:41:09.0::Hunter Escort,C[12508 Space_Hirogen_Escort],,*,Willard the Rat,P[6114054@4209758 Willard the Rat@virusdancer],Dual Tetryon Cannons,Pn.D8djvs,Tetryon,,57.3266,926.723
Just like the first hit, the third hit did less damage than expected - while the second hit was in range. Hrmm, would I be willing to bet 2 EC that this fourth hit's going to be...
15:03:13:01:41:10.8::Hunter Escort,C[12508 Space_Hirogen_Escort],,*,Willard the Rat,P[6114054@4209758 Willard the Rat@virusdancer],Tetryon Array - Overload II,Pn.B9h70f,Shield,,-9180.81,-6971.22 15:03:13:01:41:10.8::Hunter Escort,C[12508 Space_Hirogen_Escort],,*,Willard the Rat,P[6114054@4209758 Willard the Rat@virusdancer],Tetryon Array - Overload II,Pn.B9h70f,Tetryon,Critical,774.58,14399.8
14399.8 * 0.9 = 12959.82 * 0.70848 = 9181.7732736
And again, likely that pesky 76 being ~76...we're roughly in range again.
With Shield Frequency Modulation up...
Shots #1, #3 did less than expected damage.
Shots #2, #4 did around the expected damage.
So shots #2, #4 suggest that Shield Frequency Modulation is working as expected.
With shots #1, #3 suggesting that it works better than expected.
- Bonus damage resistance from 'Shield Frequency Modulator' being fully ignored.
...huh?
edit: Looking at shots #1, #3...it's not that Shield Frequency Modulation was working better than expected. It's working as expected on all four shots (so again, huh?). What's happening on shots #1, #3 is that the Pattern Recognition trait which isn't slotted is still affecting the bleedthrough.
Shots #2, #4 are the correct 10%.
Shots #1, #3 reflect that pesky Pattern Recognition increasing bleedthrough by 1.5%...each is 11.5%.
considering I've had my share of continuous Beta Testing on other games that are more recent that STO, I also know how to verify a bug as much as possible...
...huh?
You verify a bug by providing zero information...just statements?
Shield Frequency Modulation is working based on what the combatlog.log file is showing me. What is showing you that it is not working?
EPS Transfer Rate being ignored with Shields...just in what way do you believe that EPS Transfer Rate is supposed to affect Shields?
Now, I have also noticed a break in performance on all shields... My ship was built and made to solo bosses on Elite, never die once, while being hammered by 8 or 9 ships at the same time. After the most recent patch, my shields can't handle beyond Normal. The reason for this is simple... Shield transfer rate is fully ignoring EPS Transfer Rate.
... No, its not the Captain EPS skill. Its EPS bonuses gained from consoles... Just like Shields aren't considering the Starship Shield Systems skill, nor bonus shield amount provided by consoles... As far as I know, the Captain EPS Skill isn't even working as intended but I'm not even going to go there... I'm going to focus on shields alone.
Shield Transfer Rate? Shield Redistribution? That was stated not to be affected by EPS Transfer Rate years ago...did that change at some point without any patch notes?
edit3: It's not a pissing contest, btw. No offense to Bort or any of the guys (well, none intended); but the game's riddled with all sorts of bugs. Our best bet to try to get one we find resolved is to provide them with as much information as possible to try to reproduce/recreate it so they can verify it and get it sorted out. Some things will require more than us just saying they're broken.
edit4: BTW, c'mon - I've been complaining about Pattern Recognition since mid-January or so!
Just wanted to add that I noticed this bug as well.
I ran cce and conduit like normal i saw a massive performance drop not even the traits seem to functionng right from rep like aux def config it is a performance and a pvp killer for all sci and eng
The devs basically killed pvp for sci class GAME BREAKER
I posted the following in the other thread, and the last bit might be something that could help the devs take a look at the issue that some folks are apparently having, eh?
This is incoming Shield Damage and DPS from ISA. 5 runs from March 5th and one I just did. Shield Damage is going to depend on the length of the run. It's more about the incoming DPS. That being said, maybe it's the Shield Heals folks are noticing as off? Cause I'm not noticing anything/anywhere that's off outside of the display. Let me add those in as the third column. BTW, these are all public queue pugs.
March 5th...#1
Player A) 307k, 446 DPS, 197k Player 552k, 807 DPS, 1187k <--- me
Player C) 169k, 248 DPS, 135k
Player D) 137k, 201 DPS, 233k
Player E) 194k, 286 DPS, 128k
Team) 1359k, 1988 DPS, 1880k
March 5th...#2
Player A) 379k, 518 DPS, 792k Player 410k, 555 DPS, 1505k <--- me
Player C) 326k, 445 DPS, 375k
Player D) 202k, 275 DPS, 45k
Player E) 99k, 134 DPS, 55k
Team) 1416k, 1927 DPS, 2772k
March 5th...#3
Player A) 820k, 829 DPS, 2308k <--- me
Player 506k, 516 DPS, 1482k
Player C) 557k, 567 DPS, 231k
Player D) 154k, 163 DPS, 91k
Player E) 137k, 139 DPS, 78k
Team) 2174k, 2214 DPS, 4190k
March 5th...#4
Player A) 684k, 807 DPS, 1618k <--- me
Player 229k, 273 DPS, 824k
Player C) 141k, 167 DPS, 69k
Player D) 59k, 70 DPS, 9k
Player E) 41k, 49 DPS, 24k
Team) 1154k, 1366 DPS, 2544k
March 5th...#5
Player A) 412k, 876 DPS, 520k Player 204k, 435 DPS, 850k <--- me
Player C) 151k, 323 DPS, 156k
Player D) 25.k, 53 DPS, 28k
Player E) 30k, 66 DPS, 17k
Team) 822k, 1753 DPS, 1571k
March 13th...
Player A) 448k, 553 DPS, 280k Player E) 623k, 770 DPS, 1616k <--- me
Player C) 349k, 431 DPS, 227k
Player D) 72k, 88 DPS, 54k
Player E) 158k, 195 DPS, 77k
Team) 1650k, 2037 DPS, 2254k
Hrmm, yeah, so I just don't know what to say about folks actually experiencing an issue beyond the display bit...
...is there any common build element amongst those folks? Certain abilities? Certain gear choices? Anything that might point to what's going on for them?
I have the same problem.. i decide to equip Field Generator MK 14 on the Fed ship but i don't see the bonus of shield hit point.. same thing with the KDF (with him this console was equipped long time ago and the bonus was correctly signed) The Fed character, out from the Earth space dock, show the normal shield hit point stats and when i equip the console, the hit point change but in a few second the bonus disappear. With the KDF the bonus doesn't appear anymore.I noticed one thing though .. when they are in combat (at least with the KDF) points of the shield, with the console fitted, back at the right levels .. out of combat, however, come down again ..
Yeah, i noticed this problem as well, looks like a display error but its behaviour is strange, because sometimes i even see a boost in the capacity stats while in combat (or it's like husker says, they return to correct stats)
Btw borticus, is it possible, within this capacity fix, to resolve the displayed shield regeneration stats bug in the status window? Would be very welcome
(...)You verify a bug by providing zero information...just statements?(...)
I don't know about what lack of "information" you're reffering to but... I provided information on my previous post. Did you read that part, or did your eyes convinently saw a lot of redactions -exactly- where the information is? Because there are fellow players in this topic that actually -saw- the info I wrote on that post.
Combat logs may be useful, but its a needle factory. And even the right needles may be wrong. Instead of losing my precious time finding those "right needles" in a needle factory that spits thousands of different lines per second, I preffer to lose time in extensive real-time combat where I can see for myself if things are working properly or not. Different points of view, what can I say... An endless debate that I don't give a damn about, or care enough to do so.
You're absolutely right, this is not a pissing contest and I would appreciate it if you keep this as short, direct, and within those boundaries. I don't know if you read what I wrote properly, but I've been told that each language is usually tricky, with lots of double meanings. You should revise -properly- what I wrote back then.
(...)BTW, c'mon - I've been complaining about Pattern Recognition since mid-January or so! (...)
... Your complaints must have already been noted by a dev but I'm not a dev... so I don't care... I'm here because the shields are bugged and I decided to report the "extra" bugs I've found during my tests in order to contribute for better gameplay...
Here's what I'm seeing... I'm explaining and reinforcing your words that the shields appearing to be having a display issue but~ you're trying to counter my arguments of the other bugs I found during my tests... Unless you use these bugs (or exploits, whatever ticks you fancy) for leverage against opponents that aren't even aware of them, you have no reason whatsoever to complaint and/or counter either my findings and/or testing methods, as much as I'm not countering yours.
Also, by your argument that Shield Power is affecting regeneration rate, the you've found another bug. A -real- Display Issue because shield regeneration rate on the stats window remains unaffected by either increasing and/or decreasing shield power.
For updating purposes, shield bugs found are:
- Display Issue considering shield amount ('x' checked because I lost count)
- Display Issue considering shield regen rate when increasing and/or decreasing shield power (unconfirmed, by virusdancer), though its undoubtedly crystal clear that shield hardness is directly affected by shield power.
- EPS Transfer Rate being fully ignored (triple checked)
- Bonus Hardness being fully ignored after reaching maximum number of stacks (triple checked).
- Bonus damage resistance from 'Shield Frequency Modulator' being fully ignored, not the regen bonus (triple checked).
x
Offtopic:
1) EPS - Either the captain EPS skill is bugged and not working as intended (its only affecting Emergency Power to <subsystem>, not the rest it should be affecting), or the game system revolving around EPS is broken and not working at all ("intended" isn't even applicable). EPS only means one thing: Power Transfer Rate. Saying that shields transfer rate is unaffected by EPS is wrong, because you're transferring power from the other shield facings to reinforce the other facings. Bonus EPS from consoles were doing the proper effect before the latest patch, however the captain EPS skill only affects subsystem power transfer.
2) Tachyon Beam drain is ignoring the debuff cleanup from the Science Team. My reaction time when being hit by Tachyon Beam is 80ms, give or take a few, so I use Science Team as soon as the drain starts. Instead of cancelling the drain, its ignored completely. I don't know, but this only means that one of them isn't working as intended.
... So, to make sure I understood correctly what you mentioned, Bort... It does not affect Shield Capacity Redistribution -at all-, right?
In other words, Shield Capacity Redistribution cannot be affected by -anything-... correct?
Please, now that you mentioned that EPS does not affect Shield Capacity Redistribution, I am now interested in knowing just the thing I'm asking right now... Bugs can be triaged better and faster if both ends actually~ work in the same direction, so to speak.... like that open mission in Kobali.
Shield Capacity Redistribution cannot be affected by -anything-... correct?
This should be accurate in terms of skills and passive bonuses. It's %-based, so shouldn't benefit from any sort of bonuses.
I think there might be a Doff or something that explicitly states "X bonus to/from Shield Redistribution" but if such a thing exists in the game, it'd be an exception to the above rule.
Jeremy Randall
Cryptic - Lead Systems Designer
"Play smart!"
Ran a few more Crystalline Advanced today. Note that I'm not a numbers guy, I can't do fancy breakdowns like that. I just go off what I feel, so take it for what it's worth, if anything at all.
The first ship I flew was the Science Command Cruiser which I have set up to be more of a tanky ship. Had quite a bit of trouble surviving. My shields were mostly gone the whole fight, and my hull danced between 80% and 40% the whole ride through. This seems badly wrong to me since I never had any problems before with this ship in Advanced content.
The second ship I flew was the Fleet Patrol Escort. Here's the thing, I haven't upgraded this ship yet. So it's still T5 and not T5U. It did better than the Command Cruiser. I didn't have any more trouble surviving in this thing than I normally do.
The weird thing is that both my Command Cruiser and my FPE are showing roughly the same shield values, around 5300 with the Dyson shield.
Not sure what's going on here if anything, but it feels all wrong.
CC is not a good test bed. You have the variables of 9 other players, the stacking damage buff from fragments, and the random events currently active for the Event.
Something more predictable like a solo patrol or mission would be a better basis for comparison.
Jeremy Randall
Cryptic - Lead Systems Designer
"Play smart!"
CC is not a good test bed. You have the variables of 9 other players, the stacking damage buff from fragments, and the random events currently active for the Event.
Something more predictable like a solo patrol or mission would be a better basis for comparison.
Alright, ran a few patrols in Tau Dewa on Advanced and didn't notice anything different on either one of my ships. Guess it was just the event throwing me off, my bad.
Strictly anecdotal, but I had an Undine Battlezone run for a good half an hour or more last night and did not feel like I was struggling more than usual.
I DID feel like I was in more peril in a Borg Red Alert that night than normal, but the tachyon beam buff may have something to do with that. Since as far as I know, Undine and Voth powers have not changed, I lean towards the UBZ information.
(off subject, the Borg Red Alert in Beta Ursae failed to award any marks or rewards despite taking the mission and successfully completing all objectives...fifteen minutes mostly wasted...that is the first time I have ever had that problem WITH the command ship properly spawning.)
Christian Gaming Community Fleets--Faith, Fun, and Fellowship! See the website and PM for more. :-) Proudly F2P.Signature image by gulberat. Avatar image by balsavor.deviantart.com.
This should be accurate in terms of skills and passive bonuses. It's %-based, so shouldn't benefit from any sort of bonuses.
I think there might be a Doff or something that explicitly states "X bonus to/from Shield Redistribution" but if such a thing exists in the game, it'd be an exception to the above rule.
... Interesting... too bad there's not even one shred of info about such a doff... I wonder if its going to be a new thing placed inside reinforced doff packs...
... If there was a certain specific info about it, it would be perfect though... not implying anything with this... Until I get to see such a Doff, I can only see the increased shield redistribution speed really~ far away...
CC is not a good test bed. You have the variables of 9 other players, the stacking damage buff from fragments, and the random events currently active for the Event.
Something more predictable like a solo patrol or mission would be a better basis for comparison.
A good "standard candle" might be the Fed Starbase Patrol in Tau Dewa might be good. No NPCs to assist you, a few regular NPC sips to blow up/disable, and finally the base.
(For experiments like these, it would probably be helpful if there wasn't a time lockout on entering patrols, just on patrol rewards... But of course, that would be bad in another sense, more the "Cryptic is stealing my rewards?!!!" "Where's the timer?")
Star Trek Online Advancement: You start with lowbie gear, you end with Lobi gear.
Before this thread drifts too much off the current topic, lemme refute one thing:
EPS does not affect Shield Capacity Redistribution.
"Power" in the term "Power Transfer Rate" is referring exclusively to Subsystem Power Levels.
In a distant past, I *do* remember EPS affecting the speed of EPtX abilities. Not really all that important, I guess, as those power surges, for all purposed and intent, are as good as instantaneous anyway.
I played yesterday and didn't notice any difference in performance.
I did notice that yes my shields only showed their base values.
I also noticed that my hull appeared to be showing base value too and that the UI showing my hull percentage and shields was also acting strangely. When I start taking fire the hull percentage number goes down quickly and the whole UI piece goes white but still shows the percent number in the middle. I think what it may be showing is my shields numbers going down from the damage. It doesn't seem to show what my hull is at anymore.
Comments
The first bit...the SandyBrown bit:
If Shield Power stopped affecting Shield Regen with Season 8, then why does it match up pretty closely with what happened there?
15107 capacity shields. 15366.61 damage done after 7 seconds to drop them. Shield Regen would have kicked in after 6 seconds.
Base Regen Rate = 193.3
@54 Shield Power = (1 + (54 - 50) / 25) * 193.3 = 1.16 * 193.3 = 224.228
@64 Shield Power = (1 + (64 - 50) / 25) * 193.3 = 1.56 * 193.3 = 301.548
Amount of Regen applied = 15366.61 - 15107 = 259.61
@56 = 239.692
@58 = 255.156
@60 = 270.62
@62 = 286.084
Suggests that our starting 54 wasn't exactly 54 and was higher.
The third bit...the YellowGreen bit:
That more Shield Regen than the listed 193.3 took place...suggests that Shield Power did play a part in it. There were no Shield Heals triggered - there was no Shield Distribution. More damage was done to the Shields than the Shield Capacity...the difference is greater than the Shield Regen of the Shields alone.
The second bit...the Yellow bit:
Notice dropping Shield Power? Shield Power didn't drop...Shield Power increased. MACO Shields...Power Conduit Link. The 54 to 64 range...reflecting the increase in potential Shield Power that could take place. There was no statement of reduced Regen, no state of reduced Shield Hardness....I'm dumbfounded where you got any of that from with what was posted.
We can take a look at the first hit there. Note, with Pattern Recognition there will be a debuff applied to self which increases Shield Penetration by 1.5% rather than increasing Shield Hardness by 1.5%. 6.5% damage goes to hull rather than 5.0% damage. We can actually see this by looking at it and knowing what the Hull Damage Resistance was (46.2%).
-1240.25,-876.8
60.954,1743.33
60.954 / 0.538 = 113.297 / 1743.33 = 0.06498; ~6.5% instead of 5.0%
So then we can move back to the Shield line.
1743.33 * 0.935 = 1630.014
1240.25 / 1630.014 = 0.7609; ~76% damage, so ~24% Shield Hardness/Damage Reduction.
MACO Shields provide a 10% reduction to Energy Damage.
54 Shield Power provides ~15.12% (54 * 0.28); but that 54 is actually 54 is questionable at this point. Still...
1 - ((1 - 0.1512) * (1 - 0.1)) = 1 - (0.8488 * 0.9) = 1 - 0.76392 = 0.23608; ~23.6%
So with the 54 likely being higher than 54; we're roughly in the neighborhood of where we'd expect to be.
What does the second hit offer us 0.4s later?
-1254.96,-887.199
61.6769,1764.01
61.6769 / 0.538 = 114.641 / 1764.01 = 0.06498; still at the ~6.5% instead of 5.0%
1764.01 * 0.935 = 1649.349
1254.96 / 1649.349 = 0.7609; ~76% again
This tells us that we haven't registered an increase to Shield Power yet from two hits to the MACO Shields and the expected Power Conduit Link.
Another second later and the third hit?
-1066.8,-777.674
54.0629,1546.24
54.0629 / 0.538 = 100.489 / 1546.24 = 0.06498; still at the ~6.5% instead of 5.0% (Pattern Recognition stacks every 15s in combat, we wouldn't have seen a change yet)
1546.24 * 0.935 = 1445.734
1066.8 / 1445.734 = 0.7379; 73.79%...an increase in Shield Hardness/Damage Reduction took place.
Say we try the formula with 56 instead of 54, yeah? 56 * 0.28 = 15.68; instead of 15.12 with the 54.
1 - ((1 - 0.1568) * (1 - 0.1)) = 1 - (0.8432 * 0.9) = 1 - 0.75888 = 0.24112; 24.112%
That doesn't match up, so let's run it back the other way to see what it would suggest the Shield Power was.
0.7379 / 0.9 = 0.8199; 1 - 0.8199 = 0.1801 * 100 = 18.01 / 0.28 = 64
That suggests we've bounced up from 54 to 64 with the third hit where nothing happened on the first or second hit.
Okay then, another 0.4 seconds later for the fourth hit (yes, there are two attackers - thus the lack of synchronization on the incoming attacks)?
-1058.35,-796.332
55.36,1583.34
55.36 / 0.538 = 102.9 / 1583.34 = 0.06498
1583.34 * 0.935 = 1480.423
1058.35 / 1480.423 = 0.7149; or 71.49%
Just going to run that one backward.
0.7149 / 0.9 = 0.7943; 1 - 0.7943 = 0.2057 * 100 = 20.57 / 0.28 = ~73.46
Almost 74...hrmmm...I'm wondering if I had the PWO Shield Power DOFF slotted for that test. Could have sworn I'd pulled that, but 74 vs. 54 would be explained by that. Nothing else could potentially explain it.
Let's check 0.6 seconds later with the fifth hit, eh?
-1162.74,-874.874
60.8201,1739.5
60.8201 / 0.538 = 113.048 / 1739.5 = 0.06498
1739.5 * 0.935 = 1626.432
1162.74 / 1626.432 = 0.7149
Well, damn...it wouldn't explain the 64 from the third shot, but the 4th and 5th shot appear to reflect the PWO applying a +20.
* * * * *
Feels like all of this is getting a bit off on a tangent, when it was simply a post showing that over 15k damage was done before shields dropped instead of the displayed 7539; suggesting that the 7539 (even though it bounced back and forth to the 15107 during combat or briefly when slotting gear) was just a display issue.
Hell, later in the parse looking at it more closely...suggests that 6.25% instead of 6.5% bleed was taking place. There's nothing that would account for that decrease. The other possibility there would be damage resistance going from 46.2% to 50.8%. Again though, there's nothing that would account for that increase just like there was nothing to account for the potential decrease.
It's the 22.9 hit that I'm looking at...
-1052.66,-1000.84
52.6755,1567.72
Can check it against the ~0.7149 amount, yeah?
1052.66 / 0.71489707434274354983295651533086 = 1472.4637123012236027779090093069
1472.4637123012236027779090093069 / 1567.72 = 0.93923896633405429718183668595599
1 - 0.93923896633405429718183668595599 = 0.06076103366594570281816331404401
That doesn't quite work.
Can check it against the ~0.7379 amount, yeah?
1052.66 / 0.73789487197648475404610971420477 = 1426.571778687664041994750656168
1426.571778687664041994750656168 / 1567.72 = 0.90996592420053583675321527834561
1 - 0.90996592420053583675321527834561 = 0.09003407579946416324678472165439
That doesn't quite work.
Say we went with the ~6.25% bleed, eh?
1 - 0.06245365964656650526604733775292 = 0.93754634035343349473395266224708
1567.72 * 0.93754634035343349473395266224708 = 1469.810148698884758364312267658
1052.66 / 1469.810148698884758364312267658 = 0.71618773413140654713188687115927
0.71618773413140654713188687115927 / 0.9 = 0.79576414903489616347987430128807
1 - 0.79576414903489616347987430128807 = 0.20423585096510383652012569871193 * 100 = 20.423585096510383652012569871193 / 0.28 = 72.941375344679941614330606682832
Which approaches that potential 74...but would mean that somehow bleed were reduced.
I need a cigarette and some caffeine...
edit: Speaking of Shield Frequency Modulation, though...I noticed it was mentioned that it's 10% is not being factored into the overall Shield Damage Reduction...
...but have you noticed what else it is doing?
As far as how it is affecting other shield heals?
As far as how it is affecting shield drains?
edit2: Noticed while looking over what gear might have been affecting/not affecting things on that particular test (again, it was just a quick test regarding the 7k vs. 15k)...that the Tachyon Pulse Platform console states it Reduces Damage to Shields by 2.5%...and er...that wasn't reflected on the first hit up there.
^^ This.
I see a dazzling anount of numbers, offering the perfect opportunity for Cryptic to dismiss this as a reporting error, which I hope won't happen. Bort said he would look into this independenty.
^^ Please, listen to this man!
15:03:13:01:32:53.2::Hunter Escort,C[12507 Space_Hirogen_Escort],,*,Willard the Rat,P[6114054@4209758 Willard the Rat@virusdancer],Tetryon Turret,Pn.2d1qqb1,Shield,,-1207.66,-825.302
15:03:13:01:32:53.2::Hunter Escort,C[12507 Space_Hirogen_Escort],,*,Willard the Rat,P[6114054@4209758 Willard the Rat@virusdancer],Tetryon Turret,Pn.2d1qqb1,Tetryon,Critical,91.7003,1704.76
1704.76 * 0.9 = 1534.284 * 0.7872 = 1207.7883648
Basically, the listed 76 isn't 76. But that matches up close enough when considering that about the ~76 Shield Power listed.
* * * * *
Switching on Shield Frequency Modulation should take us to ~29.152% (1 - (1 - 0.2128) * (1 - 0.1) = 0.29152); or 0.70848...70.848% damage being done.
15:03:13:01:41:08.2::Hunter Escort,C[12508 Space_Hirogen_Escort],,*,Willard the Rat,P[6114054@4209758 Willard the Rat@virusdancer],Dual Tetryon Cannons,Pn.D8djvs,Shield,,-461.815,-350.668
15:03:13:01:41:08.2::Hunter Escort,C[12508 Space_Hirogen_Escort],,*,Willard the Rat,P[6114054@4209758 Willard the Rat@virusdancer],Dual Tetryon Cannons,Pn.D8djvs,Tetryon,,45.567,736.622
736.622 * 0.9 = 662.9598 * 0.70848 = 469.693759104
And I actually took less damage than expected there.
461.815 / 662.9598 = 0.69659578152400794135632356592361
Let me check another pair.
15:03:13:01:41:08.6::Hunter Escort,C[12508 Space_Hirogen_Escort],,*,Willard the Rat,P[6114054@4209758 Willard the Rat@virusdancer],Dual Tetryon Cannons,Pn.D8djvs,Shield,,-542.515,-411.945
15:03:13:01:41:08.6::Hunter Escort,C[12508 Space_Hirogen_Escort],,*,Willard the Rat,P[6114054@4209758 Willard the Rat@virusdancer],Dual Tetryon Cannons,Pn.D8djvs,Tetryon,,45.7717,850.919
850.919 * 0.9 = 765.8271 * 0.70848 = 542.573183808
And again we're within range. Let me check a third hit.
15:03:13:01:41:09.0::Hunter Escort,C[12508 Space_Hirogen_Escort],,*,Willard the Rat,P[6114054@4209758 Willard the Rat@virusdancer],Dual Tetryon Cannons,Pn.D8djvs,Shield,,-580.997,-441.165
15:03:13:01:41:09.0::Hunter Escort,C[12508 Space_Hirogen_Escort],,*,Willard the Rat,P[6114054@4209758 Willard the Rat@virusdancer],Dual Tetryon Cannons,Pn.D8djvs,Tetryon,,57.3266,926.723
926.723 * 0.9 = 834.0507 * 0.70848 = 590.908239936
But once again, I actually took less damage than expected.
580.997 / 834.0507 = 0.69659674166090862342061459812935
Just like the first hit, the third hit did less damage than expected - while the second hit was in range. Hrmm, would I be willing to bet 2 EC that this fourth hit's going to be...
15:03:13:01:41:10.8::Hunter Escort,C[12508 Space_Hirogen_Escort],,*,Willard the Rat,P[6114054@4209758 Willard the Rat@virusdancer],Tetryon Array - Overload II,Pn.B9h70f,Shield,,-9180.81,-6971.22
15:03:13:01:41:10.8::Hunter Escort,C[12508 Space_Hirogen_Escort],,*,Willard the Rat,P[6114054@4209758 Willard the Rat@virusdancer],Tetryon Array - Overload II,Pn.B9h70f,Tetryon,Critical,774.58,14399.8
14399.8 * 0.9 = 12959.82 * 0.70848 = 9181.7732736
And again, likely that pesky 76 being ~76...we're roughly in range again.
With Shield Frequency Modulation up...
Shots #1, #3 did less than expected damage.
Shots #2, #4 did around the expected damage.
So shots #2, #4 suggest that Shield Frequency Modulation is working as expected.
With shots #1, #3 suggesting that it works better than expected.
So I've got to ask...
...huh?
edit: Looking at shots #1, #3...it's not that Shield Frequency Modulation was working better than expected. It's working as expected on all four shots (so again, huh?). What's happening on shots #1, #3 is that the Pattern Recognition trait which isn't slotted is still affecting the bleedthrough.
Shots #2, #4 are the correct 10%.
Shots #1, #3 reflect that pesky Pattern Recognition increasing bleedthrough by 1.5%...each is 11.5%.
edit2: And speaking of huh? type questions...
...huh?
...huh?
You verify a bug by providing zero information...just statements?
Shield Frequency Modulation is working based on what the combatlog.log file is showing me. What is showing you that it is not working?
EPS Transfer Rate being ignored with Shields...just in what way do you believe that EPS Transfer Rate is supposed to affect Shields?
Shield Transfer Rate? Shield Redistribution? That was stated not to be affected by EPS Transfer Rate years ago...did that change at some point without any patch notes?
edit3: It's not a pissing contest, btw. No offense to Bort or any of the guys (well, none intended); but the game's riddled with all sorts of bugs. Our best bet to try to get one we find resolved is to provide them with as much information as possible to try to reproduce/recreate it so they can verify it and get it sorted out. Some things will require more than us just saying they're broken.
edit4: BTW, c'mon - I've been complaining about Pattern Recognition since mid-January or so!
I ran cce and conduit like normal i saw a massive performance drop not even the traits seem to functionng right from rep like aux def config it is a performance and a pvp killer for all sci and eng
The devs basically killed pvp for sci class GAME BREAKER
Btw borticus, is it possible, within this capacity fix, to resolve the displayed shield regeneration stats bug in the status window? Would be very welcome
Well, not unless a stealth nerf of Elite Fleet Shields has taken place - you guys wouldn't do that, would you?
Free Tibet!
I don't know about what lack of "information" you're reffering to but... I provided information on my previous post. Did you read that part, or did your eyes convinently saw a lot of redactions -exactly- where the information is? Because there are fellow players in this topic that actually -saw- the info I wrote on that post.
... Its in plain sight.
Combat logs may be useful, but its a needle factory. And even the right needles may be wrong. Instead of losing my precious time finding those "right needles" in a needle factory that spits thousands of different lines per second, I preffer to lose time in extensive real-time combat where I can see for myself if things are working properly or not. Different points of view, what can I say... An endless debate that I don't give a damn about, or care enough to do so.
You're absolutely right, this is not a pissing contest and I would appreciate it if you keep this as short, direct, and within those boundaries. I don't know if you read what I wrote properly, but I've been told that each language is usually tricky, with lots of double meanings. You should revise -properly- what I wrote back then.
... Your complaints must have already been noted by a dev but I'm not a dev... so I don't care... I'm here because the shields are bugged and I decided to report the "extra" bugs I've found during my tests in order to contribute for better gameplay...
Here's what I'm seeing... I'm explaining and reinforcing your words that the shields appearing to be having a display issue but~ you're trying to counter my arguments of the other bugs I found during my tests... Unless you use these bugs (or exploits, whatever ticks you fancy) for leverage against opponents that aren't even aware of them, you have no reason whatsoever to complaint and/or counter either my findings and/or testing methods, as much as I'm not countering yours.
Also, by your argument that Shield Power is affecting regeneration rate, the you've found another bug. A -real- Display Issue because shield regeneration rate on the stats window remains unaffected by either increasing and/or decreasing shield power.
For updating purposes, shield bugs found are:
- Display Issue considering shield amount ('x' checked because I lost count)
- Display Issue considering shield regen rate when increasing and/or decreasing shield power (unconfirmed, by virusdancer), though its undoubtedly crystal clear that shield hardness is directly affected by shield power.
- EPS Transfer Rate being fully ignored (triple checked)
- Bonus Hardness being fully ignored after reaching maximum number of stacks (triple checked).
- Bonus damage resistance from 'Shield Frequency Modulator' being fully ignored, not the regen bonus (triple checked).
x
Offtopic:
1) EPS - Either the captain EPS skill is bugged and not working as intended (its only affecting Emergency Power to <subsystem>, not the rest it should be affecting), or the game system revolving around EPS is broken and not working at all ("intended" isn't even applicable). EPS only means one thing: Power Transfer Rate. Saying that shields transfer rate is unaffected by EPS is wrong, because you're transferring power from the other shield facings to reinforce the other facings. Bonus EPS from consoles were doing the proper effect before the latest patch, however the captain EPS skill only affects subsystem power transfer.
2) Tachyon Beam drain is ignoring the debuff cleanup from the Science Team. My reaction time when being hit by Tachyon Beam is 80ms, give or take a few, so I use Science Team as soon as the drain starts. Instead of cancelling the drain, its ignored completely. I don't know, but this only means that one of them isn't working as intended.
Vanilla Ground PvP information
If only there was a way to test stuff prior to release. Oh wait.
On my phantom it feels like my fleet shields aren't working at all.
EPS does not affect Shield Capacity Redistribution.
"Power" in the term "Power Transfer Rate" is referring exclusively to Subsystem Power Levels.
Cryptic - Lead Systems Designer
"Play smart!"
this made me giggle, like if it was discovered before release they would fix it before going live....
In other words, Shield Capacity Redistribution cannot be affected by -anything-... correct?
Please, now that you mentioned that EPS does not affect Shield Capacity Redistribution, I am now interested in knowing just the thing I'm asking right now... Bugs can be triaged better and faster if both ends actually~ work in the same direction, so to speak.... like that open mission in Kobali.
This should be accurate in terms of skills and passive bonuses. It's %-based, so shouldn't benefit from any sort of bonuses.
I think there might be a Doff or something that explicitly states "X bonus to/from Shield Redistribution" but if such a thing exists in the game, it'd be an exception to the above rule.
Cryptic - Lead Systems Designer
"Play smart!"
The first ship I flew was the Science Command Cruiser which I have set up to be more of a tanky ship. Had quite a bit of trouble surviving. My shields were mostly gone the whole fight, and my hull danced between 80% and 40% the whole ride through. This seems badly wrong to me since I never had any problems before with this ship in Advanced content.
The second ship I flew was the Fleet Patrol Escort. Here's the thing, I haven't upgraded this ship yet. So it's still T5 and not T5U. It did better than the Command Cruiser. I didn't have any more trouble surviving in this thing than I normally do.
The weird thing is that both my Command Cruiser and my FPE are showing roughly the same shield values, around 5300 with the Dyson shield.
Not sure what's going on here if anything, but it feels all wrong.
Mine Trap Supporter
Something more predictable like a solo patrol or mission would be a better basis for comparison.
Cryptic - Lead Systems Designer
"Play smart!"
... so~, out of curiosity, why is the automatic redistribution from Tactical Team faster than normal?
Ok, will do.
Mine Trap Supporter
Mine Trap Supporter
I DID feel like I was in more peril in a Borg Red Alert that night than normal, but the tachyon beam buff may have something to do with that. Since as far as I know, Undine and Voth powers have not changed, I lean towards the UBZ information.
(off subject, the Borg Red Alert in Beta Ursae failed to award any marks or rewards despite taking the mission and successfully completing all objectives...fifteen minutes mostly wasted...that is the first time I have ever had that problem WITH the command ship properly spawning.)
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... Interesting... too bad there's not even one shred of info about such a doff... I wonder if its going to be a new thing placed inside reinforced doff packs...
... If there was a certain specific info about it, it would be perfect though... not implying anything with this... Until I get to see such a Doff, I can only see the increased shield redistribution speed really~ far away...
... back to the topic, any word on the thing?
(For experiments like these, it would probably be helpful if there wasn't a time lockout on entering patrols, just on patrol rewards... But of course, that would be bad in another sense, more the "Cryptic is stealing my rewards?!!!" "Where's the timer?")
In a distant past, I *do* remember EPS affecting the speed of EPtX abilities. Not really all that important, I guess, as those power surges, for all purposed and intent, are as good as instantaneous anyway.
I did notice that yes my shields only showed their base values.
I also noticed that my hull appeared to be showing base value too and that the UI showing my hull percentage and shields was also acting strangely. When I start taking fire the hull percentage number goes down quickly and the whole UI piece goes white but still shows the percent number in the middle. I think what it may be showing is my shields numbers going down from the damage. It doesn't seem to show what my hull is at anymore.
While not game breaking, it is pretty annoying.
Hope you guys work this out!
Thanks