You missed the point even more than I thought you did, I'm impressed.
You're really not getting it, I don't want to grind, that's my entire point! It took too long to get exp before the patch, and now it takes even longer, that means MORE grinding, not less.
Apparently I do care enough to argue with you. I'm weak, sue me.
You missed the point even more than I thought you did, I'm impressed.
You're really not getting it, I don't want to grind, that's my entire point! It took too long to get exp before the patch, and now it takes even longer, that means MORE grinding, not less.
Apparently I do care enough to argue with you. I'm weak, sue me.
No, because you perceived me as an enemy just because I asked you "what do you need XP for" you went further and further away from my point.
See, i don't grind Argala, did it few times, it makes me sick. I don't repeat any content and i have my 2 toons nicely filled in intel and few points in command.
The POINT: before- XP rewards for EVERYTHING except Patrol Grinds less- after patch more
before - XP rewards for Argala, Gerren more- after less
For me it's a good thing, for overally quality of play and population in queues even more.
25% more for missions, XP for battlezones, great boost to PvE content.
Even if you are compelled to get all XP you can now do it without need to grind argala over and over and over.
how is that worse then yesterday?
If we could take a step back from the Argala QQ for just a moment, and I don't know if this may have been answered already, but for those of us (read: most of us) who have done all these story missions before, will we get the first time dilithium rewards now, or the returning one?
you still didnt answer me. why do you need XP for?
i dont enjoy the journey to max level as much as i enjoy being at max level. i suppose i am a completionist, particularly on my main toon. i feel the need to have every accolade achieved, every rep finished, every rep set in the bank, every outfit unlocked, every doff-chain complete, every piece of gear or weapon i use upgraded to max, the fleets complete, and so on. i take great joy in ticking every one of these type of things off the list. once that is done then i feel like i can go about doing random stuff in the game.
what i dont enjoy is an open-ended slog that has been engineered to intentionally make it impossible for me to outpace the treadmill and reach my goal. its very demoralising. i cant see myself ever being happy to simply bebop around aimlessly while i still have a hundred or more spec traits to unlock.
As someone who didn't regularly grind Argala or Gerran beyond the odd repeat run these changes on the whole sound fairly postivie to me so thanks very much.
Now only things that would really help beyond this are:
1) Way to earn very rare crafting materials without playing advanced content
2) Something that limits/prevents underpowered pugs in advanced/elite maps (maybe a minimum team dps count - so wouldn't lock out all low dps players but gives the team a chance? I know low dps isn't always a mission fail as I managed to parse an ISA yesterday where my Sci took 45% (~9k) of the teams dps output in a 30 minute run and still completed the run after failing the optional - thank you Grav Wells) but it is frustrating when you pick up a full team that is vastly underpowered to the point of being less use than hanger pets! So something that balanced the team might help and hopefully might help the less well equipped players to get the rewards they need to get appropriately equipped and sufficiently upgraded gear (might also encourage a few people back off private only matches to pick up the odd pug).
3) Buff to foundry rewards and XP to make them more worthwhile (and related to mission length) - I know there's the age old argument about whether or not this is content but I do like the premise its just the missions don't seem to have ever had enough of a time to reward ratio to make it worthwhile when up against the rep rewards and the likes.
The total amount of exp you will be able to get, if you play in the most efficient manner possible, will be about half of what you could yesterday. That's how it's worse, no matter what I want from the spec trees, even if it's just one point, it will take twice as long.
Hey, I'm happy about the boosts to exp elsewhere, but it's not enough to match what we could get before. Overall, it's a nerf.
Fine, you don't grind argala, so for you then sure this is a good thing. And if the boosts matched what argala was giving, it'd be a good thing for me too. But I don't care where I grind, I care about how long it takes.
And seriously, I told you twice what I wanted the exp for but you kept going on about specific content. That's not the point, I want the spec abilities specifically, to use in content all over the game. I want to do a barrel roll, or call in a battleship without having to go below 50% hull (as two examples). Where I do so is besides the point.
Well its going to take a lot longer now to get a spec point
currently its 1200 xp to complet a infected advanced....that doesn't fail that is :P
lets say it gets buffed to 3k
That's 53 STFs to get 1 spec point approx. 10 minutes each avg team
lets say you do 6 stfs a night that's 18k xp Dofing 4k ish to 8k depending lets settle on 6k
lore and library missions 1.6k that's 25k xp per day 2 hours of play time
that's 1 spec point per week
currently before the nerf you could get 1 spec point per 2 hours of patrol grinding but most people could stand only 2 hours of this per day which was my limit
basically now with the nerf its going to take a year to level out a spec tree like intel with a little pilot
That's right a year 52 weeks people
Enjoy..............
Ah yes, another one of Cryptic's Not-a-nerf nerfs. They've manipulated the situation with the skill of a Romulan.
Well , they are nerfing Argala which means that whatever metric that the DQ was supposed to meet has been achieved .
Hurray ... (in a very weak voice) .
On the lesser bright side , now that they have given the ability to earn every unique award the queue's offered to solo play (Borg BNP's , Ancient Power cells ect.) , the struggle to find folks to group with will be even more severe , thus making the queue situation even more dire .
... but as long as Geko feels that upping the awards to the queues will make them flourish again , that's all I need to put my mind at ease ...
This little 'omega fragments' mission was not half bad - if you didn't have to farm it constantly for hours. It should stay, as the traces do in missions these days, in similar places (single player mission areas) and randomly.
Being able to craft the upgrade items - more slowly but consistently - will keep the costs from skyrocketing as they're consumed over the nest months, denying the market sharks their insane profit from the number of bots they've been running.
Also - for gods sakes increase the ROI on dilithium required for fleet projects! 1:1 now is simply not worth wasting the dil on a project when I still have to pay dil for the end item those insanely expensive missions unlock!
1:5 is a more worthwhile ratio and would prompt people to actually invest dil in fleet projects.
I approve of the changes. Now if cryptic would just give every lvl 60 toon a token that permanently doubles their xp gain, things would be pretty close to where they aught to be.
All Adventure Zone and Battle Zone missions award Skill Points and Expertise for completion.
We added Elite Marks (Borg Neural Processors, Ancient Power Cells, Voth Cybernetic Implants, and Isomorphic Injections) to Adventure/Battle Zones. We wanted to respond to feedback that there were not enough places to earn elite marks outside of PvE Queues:
Borg Neural Processors have been added as a once per day reward to the following missions on the Defera Invasion Zone: Modus Operandi, Getting to the Bottom of Things, Uninvited Guests, Counter Offensive
Ancient Power Cells have been added as a once per day reward to the following missions on the Kobali Prime Adventure Zone: At the Gates, The Last Stand
Note that you can already earn Voth Cybernetic Implants by defeating a V-Rex on the Voth Ground Battle Zone and the Undine Isomorphic Injections from defeating the Planet Killer in the Undine Space Battlezone in the Solanae Dyson Sphere.
Missions:
Missions found in the episode journal will reward Dilithium for both first time play (a large bonus amount) and replay (a smaller amount).
Skill Point and Expertise rewards for mission replay have been increased (by an additional 25% in most cases).
First-play rewards for repeatable Delta Rising missions have been improved from Mk XIII Rare rewards to Mk XIII Very Rare rewards. Replay rewards for those missions remain as Mk XII Rare rewards.
Just wanted to say that I'm extremely happy about these changes I singled out here, especially about adding the Elite Marks (Borg Neural Processors, Ancient Power Cells, Voth Cybernetic Implants, and Isomorphic Injections) to the battlezones as an alternative to the PvE queues.
I consider it a step in the right direction and I think it'll help players immensly in terms of enjoyment from the game.
I am going to reserve full judgment until I see how this functions outside of the XP weekend and I see what I can actually make and how fun or not fun the process is.
But I do have two questions I would like to see addressed:
1) Is DOFFing going to get at least some boost? I don't think it needs to make your spec points fill up with the kind of speed they do at 50 or below, but it would be helpful for DOFFing to get a little buff.
2) With the nerfing of EC and its impact on players, and the timegating of the patrols, what is being done to increase the EC supply into the game? I don't think changing the mission rewards does very much in that area...
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But then you'll take all the fun out of getting stuff like :
"... it's a reporting error ..."
"... you're reading it wrong , there was in fact a huge increase ..."
" ... that's not true at all ..."
... you want the truth ??? ya can't handle da truth ...
Maybe so, but the biggest thing I think a lot of people on ANY side of this argument right now seem to be presuming that the '3x increase to xp in most queued missions' is going to include whatever queued missions THEY like doing.
Their words are very vague and don't tell the whole thing. "Most" does not equal "all", and just because many queues are being buffed, doesn't mean the queues people want buffed will be increased accordingly.
Even then, this is an XP weekend, so things will be inflated until Monday. So people might be earning good XP over it from all the boosted queues, but the real numbers will actually come in once it's done.
That's why I said what I said before: Tell us what queues are being increased by what amount. Which all that I said above tells me exactly why they won't. Why tell the whole story and truth the players while the XP weekend is going, and let them find out on Monday when the real numbers are seen?
Don't misunderstand, I'd LOVE to be wrong about all this, and this ends up a net positive in the long-term, but I've been around here, and seen too much, especially since DR, to feel otherwise.
I remain empathetic to the concerns of my community, but do me a favor and lay off the god damn name calling and petty remarks. It will get you nowhere.
I must admit, respect points to Trendy for laying down the law like that.
Cryptic needs more white knights, I'm thinking maybe I should be white-knighting full time. We need balance to the force. The general position on this forum is to complain about every single decision Cryptic makes and dogpile on the devs. Anyone actually taking the time to defend a dev decision and try to see the positive side is almost immediately ridiculed and shouted down. It's gotten to the point where I honestly think that if Cryptic said they were giving us all $100, people would immediately start to complain that it's not $150. This place is beyond toxic so it's easy to see why the devs tend to shy away from it.
It's been displayed rather consistently.... Makes me want to be a wight knight some days.
Problem is the white knights need a better understanding of the mechanics involved. A lot of them, don't seem to take the time to read the counter points to the patches from experienced players.
Given the lack of understanding the "counter points" display, I see no need to heed those who are raging over this change.
It's only a "nerf" if your primary method of gaining xp was Argala grinding.
If we could take a step back from the Argala QQ for just a moment, and I don't know if this may have been answered already, but for those of us (read: most of us) who have done all these story missions before, will we get the first time dilithium rewards now, or the returning one?
Have you played them since the last time they were revamped? Revamps seem to reset whether it's a previously played mission.
Responding just to try and get this on the DevTracker. Charles seems to have lost his Golden Name, somehow.
SPACE MAGIC
*cough*, Im actually glad i started playing against yesterday after months of not because of the DR launch changes, if these dill changes are actually decent then ill stay with my favourite game yay
this is just rearranging deck chairs on the titanic. fact is our ability to earn XP just to get to 60 and to then fill out specialization is like 5 times harder then whats reasonable. little give and takes here and there, wile stacking more time gates, in no way will make this process more reasonable. i don't know how this is the same group of devs that painstakingly balanced out the reputation grind experience into something almost pleasant, and then dumped this level cap raise, specialization system, and uber costly upgrade system on us.
Hmmm ... well, here's the thing: As a company, Cryptic has to make changes to please the most amount of people possible. They cannot cater to a minority who feel a need to do the same mindless thing over and over for hours on end (seriously, I can't do Argala more than two or three times in a row before my brain turns to mulch).
The whole point of gaming is to offer players as many viable choices as possible so that they can feel rewarded in doing what they want versus doing what they feel they *have to* do. The game stops being enjoyable when it turns into one long patterned grind. MMOs used to be all about that kind of grind 15 years ago and let me tell you, it was freaking depressing. No one, and I mean no one, wants to see it get back to that.
So yes, the Argala grind did get nerfed. Absolutely agree there. In compensation, Cryptic is upping the rewards everywhere so that people can experiment with different areas and feel they're getting something out of it. As Spock once said, the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few. The many have spoken. It's up to the minority to adapt now.
Sorry to be harsh. I know many will claim they will quit and scream and shout and stomp their feet, but we all know they'll be on the lookout for the next easy thing to exploit mindlessly.
Hmmm ... well, here's the thing: As a company, Cryptic has to make changes to please the most amount of people possible. They cannot cater to a minority who feel a need to do the same mindless thing over and over for hours on end (seriously, I can't do Argala more than two or three times in a row before my brain turns to mulch).
The whole point of gaming is to offer players as many viable choices as possible so that they can feel rewarded in doing what they want versus doing what they feel they *have to* do. The game stops being enjoyable when it turns into one long patterned grind. MMOs used to be all about that kind of grind 15 years ago and let me tell you, it was freaking depressing. No one, and I mean no one, wants to see it get back to that.
So yes, the Argala grind did get nerfed. Absolutely agree there. In compensation, Cryptic is upping the rewards everywhere so that people can experiment with different areas and feel they're getting something out of it. As Spock once said, the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few. The many have spoken. It's up to the minority to adapt now.
Sorry to be harsh. I know many will claim they will quit and scream and shout and stomp their feet, but we all know they'll be on the lookout for the next easy thing to exploit mindlessly.
"Sorry to be harsh"
don't say sorry for being honest, never do that!
Grinding is boring as hell, sure people want to get to end game as quickly as possible but most just want to enjoy the game in their own way. like me, I hated the DR changes still do in many ways but the fact they are trying to buff rewards means they do care but they cant go against their own design view of what works even if people on this forum don't agree.
I should point out to everyone that you lot are a small fraction of the people who play this game, its the same with every MMO forum. So you shouldn't be shocked that they aren't doing everyone you want.
IMO the only thing they need to do is buff exp in queues that's it, Queues are dead still but I think if they buffed the exp and gave a little more dil it wouldn't be dead any more and all these people who grind would have something other to do than grind none stop.
Thats just my opinion though of course, the queues are fun but the rewards make them not worth while, buff the exp on tribble, test it then send it to holodeck.
Will there be any numbers similar to what Argala was giving out prior to this nerf.
I will be happy to find:
Normal Queue: 5,000 Completion XP
Advanced Queue 10,000 Completion XP
Elite Queue 15,000 Completion XP
Of course it is a bonus weekend so wouldn't believe any data except for those who are actually doing this on tribble or until Monday post Bonus weekend.
Still highly doubt if anything would come close to the numbers the old Argala used to give.
Sorry to be harsh. I know many will claim they will quit and scream and shout and stomp their feet, but we all know they'll be on the lookout for the next easy thing to exploit mindlessly.
I pretty much agree with what you say, though (And I speak as someone who enjoys the game and does NOT grind Argala (Well I did run it 5? 6? times in a row to nab the trait off the Anniversary ship for a single character)) it was a problem of Cryptics own making. If Argala (And the rest of the Delta Quadrant patrols) had not been so advantageous in the first place, the issue would have been avoided. I can see several reason why it was so (Similar to Legacy of Romulus and how Scimitars and Romulan Operatives are 'superior' to everything), but they went too far - And the older a property gets (STO is approaching old age in MMO terminology), the more resistant to change communities get.
A certain group of people (probably not the majority, but a decent percentage at least) will always seek the easy path, no matter how dull it gets. Some people will undoubtedly leap on this 'nerf' as an excuse to leave, but I believe those people were just looking for an excuse to leave anyway, and to be unkind - Good riddance to them. We don't need people hanging on by their toenails grasping for reasons to stay, bemoaning the fact at every opportunity, we need people to be honest. People who will play or not play based on whether they like the game or not.
I was going to write more here, but I hear my (original) Romulan calling my name, and like the ill-tempered old granny she represents, I must obey. Bah!
this is just rearranging deck chairs on the titanic. fact is our ability to earn XP just to get to 60 and to then fill out specialization is like 5 times harder then whats reasonable. little give and takes here and there, wile stacking more time gates, in no way will make this process more reasonable. i don't know how this is the same group of devs that painstakingly balanced out the reputation grind experience into something almost pleasant, and then dumped this level cap raise, specialization system, and uber costly upgrade system on us.
completely disagree here.
Your point is only true if you feel compelled to have max everything right now.
You see, when finishing some reputation to max, you don't ever come to play those missions, right? Same is with patrols or with missions with unique accolades.
that's why they have put various other rewards to missions(materials etc)
They have finally realized(it seems) that catering to farmers is a long term very bad solution.
Said farmers when they finish their farm will simply move to other "game" where they can farm more. They don't care if that game is Star Trek or wizards&elfs related, is mission with blue orbs or kazon, important factor is the farming possibility.
This patch is a very good thing for bringing back actual PLAY factor in GAME.
I would welcome another step in the right direction though.
I would scale the XP and dil/material rewards by actual difficulty/effort needed to finish the mission. I would even give generous bonuses for beating it fast, with no deaths, no failed mini-objectives etc. So for example HSE, HGE, Korfez, BDE would have much greater rewards then everything else in game, scaling down to easy ones. And PUG teams would be given even larger bonus on top of that to keep the queue population balanced with private queues.
That way you can ensure that people are not farming easiest/fastest missions over and over, and after not complaining on forums how they can't just repeat it over and over or whatnot.
That is balance of progression through challenge, not trough time spent.
Surely some of you still can remember games where higher difficulty meant better rewards, bonuses, secrets etc. Where you would get rank S A B C D E F based on your actual performance, time, no deaths, no special gear etc?
" (STO is approaching old age in MMO terminology), the more resistant to change communities get."
I would argue that STO isnt old but rather young to mid age in MMO terms, now if you want "old" you only have to look at WoW to see what truly old is in mmo terms.
As for community resistances it really isnt down to how old the game is it is down to a specific group of people who always complain when they dont get what they want, this group exists on every forum and even exists from the very inception of a games launch and is definitely not exclusive to MMOs and they certainly arent the majority neither. normally they never are, they're just usually the loudest.
that being said many do bring up valid points but not enough, sadly most people who arent part of this "demograhic" i guess, are some what band wagon riders.
I think we are all looking at the wrong issue here.
All this new stuff is cool, sure whatever bla bla bla.
(Well ok actually, I do like that you can get XP from like Defend Rhino Station or whatever)
What good is getting 100k dil if you can only refine 8k?
Here Here!!!!!
I make a call to arms for a Dil refine buff.
If you ask me, that's the real issue.
Careful, if you say that too loudly the Crytpic fanboys that think these changes are a gift from ****ing God will jump down your throat like they did mine. "OMG YOU WANT INSTANT GRATIFICATION!"
Congrats,fanboys. No more instant gratification anywhere in the entire game. No more gratification AT ALL in the entire game.
You asked for this. You ****ing asked for it and you got it and you're ****ing happy and want more.
Hour long cooldowns for everyone! No, wait, 20 hour cooldowns! Weekly cooldowns, and lets nerf exp to 1/hr! And let's triple ship prices and make new ones three times as good as current ships! HEY IDIOTS GIVE US YOUR MONEY!
Comments
You're really not getting it, I don't want to grind, that's my entire point! It took too long to get exp before the patch, and now it takes even longer, that means MORE grinding, not less.
Apparently I do care enough to argue with you. I'm weak, sue me.
No, because you perceived me as an enemy just because I asked you "what do you need XP for" you went further and further away from my point.
See, i don't grind Argala, did it few times, it makes me sick. I don't repeat any content and i have my 2 toons nicely filled in intel and few points in command.
The POINT: before- XP rewards for EVERYTHING except Patrol Grinds less- after patch more
before - XP rewards for Argala, Gerren more- after less
For me it's a good thing, for overally quality of play and population in queues even more.
25% more for missions, XP for battlezones, great boost to PvE content.
Even if you are compelled to get all XP you can now do it without need to grind argala over and over and over.
how is that worse then yesterday?
Super SpecialStar Trek Online Review
SpecialTemporal PUG 100K DPS Build
We are Travelers
of course not.
sorry you did those mission 5 years ago.
i dont enjoy the journey to max level as much as i enjoy being at max level. i suppose i am a completionist, particularly on my main toon. i feel the need to have every accolade achieved, every rep finished, every rep set in the bank, every outfit unlocked, every doff-chain complete, every piece of gear or weapon i use upgraded to max, the fleets complete, and so on. i take great joy in ticking every one of these type of things off the list. once that is done then i feel like i can go about doing random stuff in the game.
what i dont enjoy is an open-ended slog that has been engineered to intentionally make it impossible for me to outpace the treadmill and reach my goal. its very demoralising. i cant see myself ever being happy to simply bebop around aimlessly while i still have a hundred or more spec traits to unlock.
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Now only things that would really help beyond this are:
1) Way to earn very rare crafting materials without playing advanced content
2) Something that limits/prevents underpowered pugs in advanced/elite maps (maybe a minimum team dps count - so wouldn't lock out all low dps players but gives the team a chance? I know low dps isn't always a mission fail as I managed to parse an ISA yesterday where my Sci took 45% (~9k) of the teams dps output in a 30 minute run and still completed the run after failing the optional - thank you Grav Wells) but it is frustrating when you pick up a full team that is vastly underpowered to the point of being less use than hanger pets! So something that balanced the team might help and hopefully might help the less well equipped players to get the rewards they need to get appropriately equipped and sufficiently upgraded gear (might also encourage a few people back off private only matches to pick up the odd pug).
3) Buff to foundry rewards and XP to make them more worthwhile (and related to mission length) - I know there's the age old argument about whether or not this is content but I do like the premise its just the missions don't seem to have ever had enough of a time to reward ratio to make it worthwhile when up against the rep rewards and the likes.
Hey, I'm happy about the boosts to exp elsewhere, but it's not enough to match what we could get before. Overall, it's a nerf.
Fine, you don't grind argala, so for you then sure this is a good thing. And if the boosts matched what argala was giving, it'd be a good thing for me too. But I don't care where I grind, I care about how long it takes.
And seriously, I told you twice what I wanted the exp for but you kept going on about specific content. That's not the point, I want the spec abilities specifically, to use in content all over the game. I want to do a barrel roll, or call in a battleship without having to go below 50% hull (as two examples). Where I do so is besides the point.
but then we wouldn't have to run the mostly awful STFs at all.
I was done with all of them 1-5 years ago. If it wasn't for the crafting materials I wouldn't do any of them
Ah yes, another one of Cryptic's Not-a-nerf nerfs. They've manipulated the situation with the skill of a Romulan.
Hurray ... (in a very weak voice) .
On the lesser bright side , now that they have given the ability to earn every unique award the queue's offered to solo play (Borg BNP's , Ancient Power cells ect.) , the struggle to find folks to group with will be even more severe , thus making the queue situation even more dire .
... but as long as Geko feels that upping the awards to the queues will make them flourish again , that's all I need to put my mind at ease ...
This little 'omega fragments' mission was not half bad - if you didn't have to farm it constantly for hours. It should stay, as the traces do in missions these days, in similar places (single player mission areas) and randomly.
Being able to craft the upgrade items - more slowly but consistently - will keep the costs from skyrocketing as they're consumed over the nest months, denying the market sharks their insane profit from the number of bots they've been running.
Also - for gods sakes increase the ROI on dilithium required for fleet projects! 1:1 now is simply not worth wasting the dil on a project when I still have to pay dil for the end item those insanely expensive missions unlock!
1:5 is a more worthwhile ratio and would prompt people to actually invest dil in fleet projects.
Hehehe giggled there *poke*
Just wanted to say that I'm extremely happy about these changes I singled out here, especially about adding the Elite Marks (Borg Neural Processors, Ancient Power Cells, Voth Cybernetic Implants, and Isomorphic Injections) to the battlezones as an alternative to the PvE queues.
I consider it a step in the right direction and I think it'll help players immensly in terms of enjoyment from the game.
But I do have two questions I would like to see addressed:
1) Is DOFFing going to get at least some boost? I don't think it needs to make your spec points fill up with the kind of speed they do at 50 or below, but it would be helpful for DOFFing to get a little buff.
2) With the nerfing of EC and its impact on players, and the timegating of the patrols, what is being done to increase the EC supply into the game? I don't think changing the mission rewards does very much in that area...
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Maybe so, but the biggest thing I think a lot of people on ANY side of this argument right now seem to be presuming that the '3x increase to xp in most queued missions' is going to include whatever queued missions THEY like doing.
Their words are very vague and don't tell the whole thing. "Most" does not equal "all", and just because many queues are being buffed, doesn't mean the queues people want buffed will be increased accordingly.
Even then, this is an XP weekend, so things will be inflated until Monday. So people might be earning good XP over it from all the boosted queues, but the real numbers will actually come in once it's done.
That's why I said what I said before: Tell us what queues are being increased by what amount. Which all that I said above tells me exactly why they won't. Why tell the whole story and truth the players while the XP weekend is going, and let them find out on Monday when the real numbers are seen?
Don't misunderstand, I'd LOVE to be wrong about all this, and this ends up a net positive in the long-term, but I've been around here, and seen too much, especially since DR, to feel otherwise.
It's only a "nerf" if your primary method of gaining xp was Argala grinding. Have you played them since the last time they were revamped? Revamps seem to reset whether it's a previously played mission.
My character Tsin'xing
SPACE MAGIC
*cough*, Im actually glad i started playing against yesterday after months of not because of the DR launch changes, if these dill changes are actually decent then ill stay with my favourite game yay
The whole point of gaming is to offer players as many viable choices as possible so that they can feel rewarded in doing what they want versus doing what they feel they *have to* do. The game stops being enjoyable when it turns into one long patterned grind. MMOs used to be all about that kind of grind 15 years ago and let me tell you, it was freaking depressing. No one, and I mean no one, wants to see it get back to that.
So yes, the Argala grind did get nerfed. Absolutely agree there. In compensation, Cryptic is upping the rewards everywhere so that people can experiment with different areas and feel they're getting something out of it. As Spock once said, the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few. The many have spoken. It's up to the minority to adapt now.
Sorry to be harsh. I know many will claim they will quit and scream and shout and stomp their feet, but we all know they'll be on the lookout for the next easy thing to exploit mindlessly.
Live Long and Prosper
\\//_
"Sorry to be harsh"
don't say sorry for being honest, never do that!
Grinding is boring as hell, sure people want to get to end game as quickly as possible but most just want to enjoy the game in their own way. like me, I hated the DR changes still do in many ways but the fact they are trying to buff rewards means they do care but they cant go against their own design view of what works even if people on this forum don't agree.
I should point out to everyone that you lot are a small fraction of the people who play this game, its the same with every MMO forum. So you shouldn't be shocked that they aren't doing everyone you want.
IMO the only thing they need to do is buff exp in queues that's it, Queues are dead still but I think if they buffed the exp and gave a little more dil it wouldn't be dead any more and all these people who grind would have something other to do than grind none stop.
Thats just my opinion though of course, the queues are fun but the rewards make them not worth while, buff the exp on tribble, test it then send it to holodeck.
I will be happy to find:
Normal Queue: 5,000 Completion XP
Advanced Queue 10,000 Completion XP
Elite Queue 15,000 Completion XP
Of course it is a bonus weekend so wouldn't believe any data except for those who are actually doing this on tribble or until Monday post Bonus weekend.
Still highly doubt if anything would come close to the numbers the old Argala used to give.
I pretty much agree with what you say, though (And I speak as someone who enjoys the game and does NOT grind Argala (Well I did run it 5? 6? times in a row to nab the trait off the Anniversary ship for a single character)) it was a problem of Cryptics own making. If Argala (And the rest of the Delta Quadrant patrols) had not been so advantageous in the first place, the issue would have been avoided. I can see several reason why it was so (Similar to Legacy of Romulus and how Scimitars and Romulan Operatives are 'superior' to everything), but they went too far - And the older a property gets (STO is approaching old age in MMO terminology), the more resistant to change communities get.
A certain group of people (probably not the majority, but a decent percentage at least) will always seek the easy path, no matter how dull it gets. Some people will undoubtedly leap on this 'nerf' as an excuse to leave, but I believe those people were just looking for an excuse to leave anyway, and to be unkind - Good riddance to them. We don't need people hanging on by their toenails grasping for reasons to stay, bemoaning the fact at every opportunity, we need people to be honest. People who will play or not play based on whether they like the game or not.
I was going to write more here, but I hear my (original) Romulan calling my name, and like the ill-tempered old granny she represents, I must obey. Bah!
Your point is only true if you feel compelled to have max everything right now.
You see, when finishing some reputation to max, you don't ever come to play those missions, right? Same is with patrols or with missions with unique accolades.
that's why they have put various other rewards to missions(materials etc)
They have finally realized(it seems) that catering to farmers is a long term very bad solution.
Said farmers when they finish their farm will simply move to other "game" where they can farm more. They don't care if that game is Star Trek or wizards&elfs related, is mission with blue orbs or kazon, important factor is the farming possibility.
This patch is a very good thing for bringing back actual PLAY factor in GAME.
I would welcome another step in the right direction though.
I would scale the XP and dil/material rewards by actual difficulty/effort needed to finish the mission. I would even give generous bonuses for beating it fast, with no deaths, no failed mini-objectives etc. So for example HSE, HGE, Korfez, BDE would have much greater rewards then everything else in game, scaling down to easy ones. And PUG teams would be given even larger bonus on top of that to keep the queue population balanced with private queues.
That way you can ensure that people are not farming easiest/fastest missions over and over, and after not complaining on forums how they can't just repeat it over and over or whatnot.
That is balance of progression through challenge, not trough time spent.
Surely some of you still can remember games where higher difficulty meant better rewards, bonuses, secrets etc. Where you would get rank S A B C D E F based on your actual performance, time, no deaths, no special gear etc?
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I would argue that STO isnt old but rather young to mid age in MMO terms, now if you want "old" you only have to look at WoW to see what truly old is in mmo terms.
As for community resistances it really isnt down to how old the game is it is down to a specific group of people who always complain when they dont get what they want, this group exists on every forum and even exists from the very inception of a games launch and is definitely not exclusive to MMOs and they certainly arent the majority neither. normally they never are, they're just usually the loudest.
that being said many do bring up valid points but not enough, sadly most people who arent part of this "demograhic" i guess, are some what band wagon riders.
Careful, if you say that too loudly the Crytpic fanboys that think these changes are a gift from ****ing God will jump down your throat like they did mine. "OMG YOU WANT INSTANT GRATIFICATION!"
Congrats,fanboys. No more instant gratification anywhere in the entire game. No more gratification AT ALL in the entire game.
You asked for this. You ****ing asked for it and you got it and you're ****ing happy and want more.
Hour long cooldowns for everyone! No, wait, 20 hour cooldowns! Weekly cooldowns, and lets nerf exp to 1/hr! And let's triple ship prices and make new ones three times as good as current ships! HEY IDIOTS GIVE US YOUR MONEY!
****ing hell.