The old icons were great because you could scan across your tray and quickly find things. These new ones require you to actually stare and resolve each one.
I applaud your effort. But like when we were in school, just because you spent two weeks writing a 5% paper doesn't mean you deserve an A+.
There's way too much detail in some cases for an icon. The team put too much detail into something that occupies less than 1cm x 1cm area hence contributing to apparent clutter.
Well the new Icons are actually far better from a action to icon perspective. The Colours are a bit too white IMO as you can actually mix up the different base colours more easily as a result.
However the only issue I have with them is the wasted icon real estate and lack of normalisation between the icons. There's no need for the background person outline any more (there wasn't a need for it in the first place) which is still present on some icons. There is a misuse of space on a few as well which give them odd appearances as well.
TBH a full icon revamp wouldn't take long and reducing some of the white highlight would help with differentiation a bit as well.
Overall though they are a 100% better than the abstract nonsense of the originals.
Chris Robert's on SC:
"You don't have to do something again and again and again repetitive that doesn't have much challange, that's just a general good gameplay thing."
Abstract art works better as its easier to spot and less cluttered. They put to much information into the new icons which makes the icons worse. As single icons the new ones might be better but once grouped they don't do the job very well.
It doesn't work better, because a player that doesn't know what the power does is left in the dark.
It's taking some adjustment time, of course, for everyone that has learned the abstract symbols from before. But that's all.
Star Trek Online Advancement: You start with lowbie gear, you end with Lobi gear.
There's way too much detail in some cases for an icon. The team put too much detail into something that occupies less than 1cm x 1cm area hence contributing to apparent clutter.
This. There is way too much going on with the new icons, so much so that it can be difficult to differentiate one from another. They are a jumbled, squiggly-lined mess. Ive been through multiple icon changes and this reiteration is by far the worst.
Its not about "getting used to them" as trying to make out wtf they are. I think part of the issue is whoever designed the art didn't take into account many of us, likely most of us, shrink the interface so we can somewhat see what our ship is doing onscreen.
Matter of opinion. The old icons are abstract art while some of the new ones are a pictographical representation of what the power does. The change is for players new to the game not veterans just like redoing the old story missions. Some veterans are used to the old designs so that is why they think they are better. New players would be completely lost with the old icons until they got used to them.
I got a great idea from Starkaos , let them design pictographical art for our number system in the power stats and gear its to easy for us to figure it out as we read it easy with the sweep of our eyes
Someone trying to justify their paycheck for that month - see, I did add content to the game!!11
Right now it's hard to care about anything because everything is so messed up though.
For example yeah the new buttons are terrible and a huge waste of time but at the same time the response lag they added to the buttons kind of overshadows the icons.
Then the response lag is overshadowed by the dead queues, then that by the dil nerf and that again by the excessive grinding and so it goes.
To me it's like we got 30 layers of TRIBBLE they gotta clear up before we can even start to negotiate people playing again.
Un-do all the TRIBBLE they pulled we still back to square one of the content drought so yeah...
Yes, the new icons are clumsy and completely unnecessary. Particularly, Sensor Scan and subnuke are hideous.
I suppose it happened because they UI guy had nothing to do and asked for work. lol As opposed to the systems guys, who have a lot to fix, but do nothing instead. Sad state of things at Craptic.
Matter of opinion. The old icons are abstract art while some of the new ones are a pictographical representation of what the power does. The change is for players new to the game not veterans just like redoing the old story missions. Some veterans are used to the old designs so that is why they think they are better. New players would be completely lost with the old icons until they got used to them.
Sorry but I have to disagree ...what good would it do you to spend time looking at the "pictographical representations" to try to decipher what the heck it means...got to say...nice pics but how needs to look representative pics when you only have seconds to hit a click. Im not looking for any "nice" pictographical artistry" just functionality. Then again so good that you still use keybinds. I could care less for design on these but functionality rules
The new icons were made by Thomas the Cat,the UI Artist....
How DARE he waste valuable timemaking new UI art!!!!
He should have been doing his JOB.... making new UI art...
Nobody is picking up on that dude...as an employee you do what you need to do to keep a job...the moron is the person above:D... your comment should be adddressed to that one instead. there are a ton of other more critical stuff that need to be done like nerfing the game to death< sarcasm intended
We understood the old ones, and nobody- nobody- was complaining about it.
Actually, I suspect nobody was complaining about it because there were other things to complain about. Thomas "The Cryptic Cat" Maroney came onto P1 Podcast (Episode 201) to talk about an Infographic he made to explain the old icons, and I suspect the reaction from the P1 cast got him thinking: IIRC, they all expressed a lack of knowledge as to all the aspects that went into each icon, and why some of them looked the way they did. As I listened to the Podcast, I felt the Hosts were representing my experience, as well. Mr. Maroney, the UI artist, saw an opportunity to improve something he, as the UI artist, had some control over. While he can't fix lag, can't rework queues, can't hunt other bugs, he can fix art. He did, and despite the fact I never complained about the icons, the old icons did bug me a bit, so I am grateful that he put the effort in to improve things.
"Logic is a little tweeting bird chirping in a meadow. Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers which smell BAD." - Spock
I think you are too late in trying to get them to change the icons. The UI artist, Thomas Marrone, likely considered some feedback before the new icons were released onto Holodeck, but I doubt he is even working on them now.
As I understand it, the new icons were changed to make them less abstract and more intuitive. I have already argued that intuitiveness is not so important as distinguishability.
while getting used to new icons isnt a big deal , my main beef is that this was a really unnesscary change and waste of #Pickyourbattles resources . we all know that thomas is a talented artist , he is jumping into ship art as well , which he does do good work . But i feel the resources spent on "icons" should have gone into other areas to improve the game , or spruce up other areas of the game.
maybe have thomas work on updating other ship materials anything but another icon revamp .
Geko is always about #pickyourbattles but makes the wrong battles priority. there are older assets that should be looked at .
Thats my 2 cents
while getting used to new icons isnt a big deal , my main beef is that this was a really unnesscary change and waste of #Pickyourbattles resources . we all know that thomas is a talented artist , he is jumping into ship art as well , which he does do good work . But i feel the resources spent on "icons" should have gone into other areas to improve the game , or spruce up other areas of the game.
maybe have thomas work on updating other ship materials anything but another icon revamp .
Geko is always about #pickyourbattles but makes the wrong battles priority. there are older assets that should be looked at .
Thats my 2 cents
and 2 cents is probaly about as much as this cost.
That is of course an exageration but whenever some minor change happens people always complain that the time and money wasn't spent on (insert thing here). They have different people doing different things, the UI guy wouldn't be working on ship materials for example and the resources spent on the icons, being just a couple dozen small drawings was most likely negligible compared to what making ship texutres would cost.
Even if it did take away time and resources it was probaly the equivilant of pausing for a moment to buy a gumball from a quarter machine while out shopping, did you really -need- that gumball? No and you now have a few seconds and a quarter less for other stuff but at the end of the day it's not going to make any real difference so why not have a gumball?
As for the icons themselves I like them and I find I'm actualy trying out new powers now that my icon tray isn't just a bunch of squiggly lines and triangles.
I'm not sure how an icon of three conected circles and a plus sign said "Weapons Malfunction" more clearly than an icon of a ray gun with a big crack in, or how a checkmark with a couple dashes above it said "Sweeping Strikes" better than a stick figure doing karate, but having an option to swap for the old ones would have been nice for those that do
Even if it did take away time and resources it was probaly the equivilant of pausing for a moment to buy a gumball from a quarter machine while out shopping, did you really -need- that gumball? No and you now have a few seconds and a quarter less for other stuff but at the end of the day it's not going to make any real difference so why not have a gumball?
If all of this really took so little time, as you suggest, then why not spend 5 secs on undoing the work of the madman who thought all Vulnerability Locators, for all types, should have the exact same icon?!
I have minimal problems with them though because i place UI icins in preset location for all my toons so i dont even need to know what it looks like.
+1 here. Thanks for the common sense.
Speed of recognition trumps the intuitiveness thing. Remember that the Eastern pictograph languages are all based on intuitive representations of people, trees, houses, mountains... and we all know how easy it is to learn written Japanese right?
The old icons were great because you could scan across your tray and quickly find things. These new ones require you to actually stare and resolve each one.
I applaud your effort. But like when we were in school, just because you spent two weeks writing a 5% paper doesn't mean you deserve an A+.
Welcome back.
Yes, new things are hard to adjust to. For the most part I think they are an improvement over the previous sets.
What's interesting about the change is that they told us in advance, and we got to see them in use on Tribble and we made suggestions for improvement.
As for your comments, they hold no value beyond identifying you as someone who doesn't handle change well. Welcome to the club
The good news is that the number of UI lag/reset problems that do exist now, you'll have plenty of opportunity to reset your hud daily to relearn all of the new icons.
I think you are too late in trying to get them to change the icons. The UI artist, Thomas Marrone, likely considered some feedback before the new icons were released onto Holodeck, but I doubt he is even working on them now.
As I understand it, the new icons were changed to make them less abstract and more intuitive. I have already argued that intuitiveness is not so important as distinguishability.
It is more important for icons to be easy to distinguish at a glance than it is for them to look like the ability when activated.
This thisssssss!!! My godz!! Efficiency is the primary concern when you have so many different powers to press, not the quality of the art....why is it so hard for the devs to understand this?
and 2 cents is probaly about as much as this cost.
That is of course an exageration but whenever some minor change happens people always complain that the time and money wasn't spent on (insert thing here). They have different people doing different things, the UI guy wouldn't be working on ship materials for example and the resources spent on the icons, being just a couple dozen small drawings was most likely negligible compared to what making ship texutres would cost.
Even if it did take away time and resources it was probaly the equivilant of pausing for a moment to buy a gumball from a quarter machine while out shopping, did you really -need- that gumball? No and you now have a few seconds and a quarter less for other stuff but at the end of the day it's not going to make any real difference so why not have a gumball?
As for the icons themselves I like them and I find I'm actualy trying out new powers now that my icon tray isn't just a bunch of squiggly lines and triangles.
I'm not sure how an icon of three conected circles and a plus sign said "Weapons Malfunction" more clearly than an icon of a ray gun with a big crack in, or how a checkmark with a couple dashes above it said "Sweeping Strikes" better than a stick figure doing karate, but having an option to swap for the old ones would have been nice for those that do
do you realize the amount of time it took to design and draw them , hours and hours of weeks of work . thats wasted work hours imo not 2 cent cost of time spent on them . and Thomas does do ship work now apparently so having him work on another art asset is within his skill set . to me since they already updated the icons before , its un needed now , you need new icons for the new spec no issue , but ******** to the players that they dont have resources to do X or y but work on useless Z that got a update last yr thats what i have a issue with ..
The good news is that the number of UI lag/reset problems that do exist now, you'll have plenty of opportunity to reset your hud daily to relearn all of the new icons.
Lol yea that is certainly helpfull. :rolleyes:
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I don't understand why developer time was wasted on this.
We're always told we can't have nice things because it costs money to develop, takes time to develop, etc.
And yet time and money was wasted on this totally unnecessary change.
Wasted? UI is incredibly important. Somewhere an analyst at Cryptic or Perfect World must have identified that a certain segment of users (e.g. new players) found the old icons to be confusing. Which they were. Even a 1% increase in retention has value.
Comments
Well the new Icons are actually far better from a action to icon perspective. The Colours are a bit too white IMO as you can actually mix up the different base colours more easily as a result.
However the only issue I have with them is the wasted icon real estate and lack of normalisation between the icons. There's no need for the background person outline any more (there wasn't a need for it in the first place) which is still present on some icons. There is a misuse of space on a few as well which give them odd appearances as well.
TBH a full icon revamp wouldn't take long and reducing some of the white highlight would help with differentiation a bit as well.
Overall though they are a 100% better than the abstract nonsense of the originals.
"You don't have to do something again and again and again repetitive that doesn't have much challange, that's just a general good gameplay thing."
Many months later, you don't hear fussing. Players adapted and move on. This one is no different.
USS Casinghead NCC 92047 launched 2350
Fleet Admiral Stowe - Dominion War Vet.
It doesn't work better, because a player that doesn't know what the power does is left in the dark.
It's taking some adjustment time, of course, for everyone that has learned the abstract symbols from before. But that's all.
This. There is way too much going on with the new icons, so much so that it can be difficult to differentiate one from another. They are a jumbled, squiggly-lined mess. Ive been through multiple icon changes and this reiteration is by far the worst.
Its not about "getting used to them" as trying to make out wtf they are. I think part of the issue is whoever designed the art didn't take into account many of us, likely most of us, shrink the interface so we can somewhat see what our ship is doing onscreen.
I got a great idea from Starkaos , let them design pictographical art for our number system in the power stats and gear its to easy for us to figure it out as we read it easy with the sweep of our eyes
Someone trying to justify their paycheck for that month - see, I did add content to the game!!11
Right now it's hard to care about anything because everything is so messed up though.
For example yeah the new buttons are terrible and a huge waste of time but at the same time the response lag they added to the buttons kind of overshadows the icons.
Then the response lag is overshadowed by the dead queues, then that by the dil nerf and that again by the excessive grinding and so it goes.
To me it's like we got 30 layers of TRIBBLE they gotta clear up before we can even start to negotiate people playing again.
Un-do all the TRIBBLE they pulled we still back to square one of the content drought so yeah...
TRIBBLE x 23^4
The new icons were made by Thomas the Cat, the UI Artist....
How DARE he waste valuable time making new UI art!!!!
He should have been doing his JOB.... making new UI art...
I suppose it happened because they UI guy had nothing to do and asked for work. lol As opposed to the systems guys, who have a lot to fix, but do nothing instead. Sad state of things at Craptic.
+10 to you...
People, lighten up.... there are worse things in life.... :rolleyes:
Sorry but I have to disagree ...what good would it do you to spend time looking at the "pictographical representations" to try to decipher what the heck it means...got to say...nice pics but how needs to look representative pics when you only have seconds to hit a click. Im not looking for any "nice" pictographical artistry" just functionality. Then again so good that you still use keybinds. I could care less for design on these but functionality rules
Nobody is picking up on that dude...as an employee you do what you need to do to keep a job...the moron is the person above:D... your comment should be adddressed to that one instead. there are a ton of other more critical stuff that need to be done like nerfing the game to death< sarcasm intended
i actually never even noticed until it was mentioned in this thread.
As I understand it, the new icons were changed to make them less abstract and more intuitive. I have already argued that intuitiveness is not so important as distinguishability.
http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showpost.php?p=21716431&postcount=20
It is more important for icons to be easy to distinguish at a glance than it is for them to look like the ability when activated.
maybe have thomas work on updating other ship materials anything but another icon revamp .
Geko is always about #pickyourbattles but makes the wrong battles priority. there are older assets that should be looked at .
Thats my 2 cents
and 2 cents is probaly about as much as this cost.
That is of course an exageration but whenever some minor change happens people always complain that the time and money wasn't spent on (insert thing here). They have different people doing different things, the UI guy wouldn't be working on ship materials for example and the resources spent on the icons, being just a couple dozen small drawings was most likely negligible compared to what making ship texutres would cost.
Even if it did take away time and resources it was probaly the equivilant of pausing for a moment to buy a gumball from a quarter machine while out shopping, did you really -need- that gumball? No and you now have a few seconds and a quarter less for other stuff but at the end of the day it's not going to make any real difference so why not have a gumball?
As for the icons themselves I like them and I find I'm actualy trying out new powers now that my icon tray isn't just a bunch of squiggly lines and triangles.
I'm not sure how an icon of three conected circles and a plus sign said "Weapons Malfunction" more clearly than an icon of a ray gun with a big crack in, or how a checkmark with a couple dashes above it said "Sweeping Strikes" better than a stick figure doing karate, but having an option to swap for the old ones would have been nice for those that do
I have minimal problems with them though because i place UI icins in preset location for all my toons so i dont even need to know what it looks like.
If all of this really took so little time, as you suggest, then why not spend 5 secs on undoing the work of the madman who thought all Vulnerability Locators, for all types, should have the exact same icon?!
+1 here. Thanks for the common sense.
Speed of recognition trumps the intuitiveness thing. Remember that the Eastern pictograph languages are all based on intuitive representations of people, trees, houses, mountains... and we all know how easy it is to learn written Japanese right?
Welcome back.
Yes, new things are hard to adjust to. For the most part I think they are an improvement over the previous sets.
What's interesting about the change is that they told us in advance, and we got to see them in use on Tribble and we made suggestions for improvement.
As for your comments, they hold no value beyond identifying you as someone who doesn't handle change well. Welcome to the club
The good news is that the number of UI lag/reset problems that do exist now, you'll have plenty of opportunity to reset your hud daily to relearn all of the new icons.
My Two Bits
AdmiralThrax
This thisssssss!!! My godz!! Efficiency is the primary concern when you have so many different powers to press, not the quality of the art....why is it so hard for the devs to understand this?
do you realize the amount of time it took to design and draw them , hours and hours of weeks of work . thats wasted work hours imo not 2 cent cost of time spent on them . and Thomas does do ship work now apparently so having him work on another art asset is within his skill set . to me since they already updated the icons before , its un needed now , you need new icons for the new spec no issue , but ******** to the players that they dont have resources to do X or y but work on useless Z that got a update last yr thats what i have a issue with ..
Not the most pressing issue in the game, but I don't expect an artistic dev to fix the lag, etc.
Lol yea that is certainly helpfull. :rolleyes:
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Wasted? UI is incredibly important. Somewhere an analyst at Cryptic or Perfect World must have identified that a certain segment of users (e.g. new players) found the old icons to be confusing. Which they were. Even a 1% increase in retention has value.