Aux2Damp cannot be used while Disabled, though. I thought you were referring to Control Breaker abilities (like Mental Discipline breaks Holds on Ground).
Ok, then I second the sentiment from tk79 of changing it from Hold, although I think Root might be better than Disable, at least I can use a clicky console or FBP with Root to do something more than just sit there and die.
Aux2Damp cannot be used while Disabled, though. I thought you were referring to Control Breaker abilities (like Mental Discipline breaks Holds on Ground).
Aux2Damp is supposed to provide IMMUNITY to disable effects, but it doesn't provide any immunity to Ionic Turbulence, the intel ship active scan disable power, or viral torpedo. It should make you immune for its duration to all of these.
Intelligence team should be activatable and remove the hold from ionic turbulence, given that it is an intel power and that's sort of the whole point of intel team. It currently doesn't.
Ideally either science or engineering team would also remove the debuff, similar to viral matrix or subnucleonic beam.
EDIT: The battery consoles like enhanced plasma manifolds say 'repairs disabled subsystems'- maybe make this apply to holds? Or make it turn a hold into a root? That'd be an interesting interaction.
Aux2damp should provide immunity to Ionic Turbulence IF Ionic hits while Aux2damp is active.
That's what the ability is supposed to do, but against Ionic it gives no protection.
It's because Ionic Turbulence is a Hold. I may be mistaken, but it is probably one of the very few Hold powers in space, if not the only one, as everything else seems to be Disables, and there are probably no counters to Hold in space at all.
(As an off-topic example, same happens with Physical Damage from Nukara Web Mines. Nothing protects against Physical Damage in space, so it does full damage, always, and gets full benefits of resistance debuffs.)
EDIT: the Intel scan power and Viral Torpedo might be other examples of Holds. With Bort's explanation, the issue sounds very clear to me now: Holds != Disables.
also @Bort as far as I'm aware there are no 'control breaker' powers in space. There's a couple 'clear all debuffs' powers and effects but that isn't quite the same thing. Would make for a good command power.
In regards of incorporating Holds in space combat, if we go that route, I suggest the following:
Improve all powers that give resistance or immunity to disables to also do the same against holds. Including but not limited to: Auxiliary to Dampeners, Attack Pattern Omega (?), and [edit] Starship Inertial Dampeners skill.
In regards of incorporating Holds in space combat, if we go that route, I suggest the following:
Improve all powers that give resistance or immunity to disables to also do the same against holds. Including but not limited to: Auxiliary to Dampeners, Attack Pattern Omega (?), and Starship Repair Rate skill.
APO is already a bit of a Swiss army knife, I would not give it the ability. Even though Attack Pattern Delta has no such resistances in any other way, maybe that's a power that could utilize such a buff. (Anyone still use APD?)
Star Trek Online Advancement: You start with lowbie gear, you end with Lobi gear.
APO is already a bit of a Swiss army knife, I would not give it the ability. Even though Attack Pattern Delta has no such resistances in any other way, maybe that's a power that could utilize such a buff. (Anyone still use APD?)
The "?" in APO was because Stowiki mentioned Immunity to Disables in its Rank III. At this time, I am unable to confirm if APO gives disable immunity for the duration.
APO is already a bit of a Swiss army knife, I would not give it the ability. Even though Attack Pattern Delta has no such resistances in any other way, maybe that's a power that could utilize such a buff. (Anyone still use APD?)
It's something we're investigating internally. However, ship animations (like the Out of Control knock) are tricky. It's always safer to hold the ship in place/direction to avoid sudden jolts or position/facing changes when animating the ship.
Allow "free from Disable" effects:
Can you point out a few of these? They should be updated to break Holds also. But in my pre-coffee haze, I can't think of any off the top of my head.
As far I have seen Engineering team clears the Ionic Turbulence so you can escape the cloud. And I also use APD 1 instead of APB 1 for any PvP I do.
Formerly Known as Protector from June 2008 to June 20, 2012
Please enable us to buy a token with Zen to faction change a 25th Century FED to a TOS FED.
had just about given up hope this was ever going to get looked at, now 2 of the 5 pvp breaking problems have been addressed, just SS, exotic damage, and the ruined HP/heals/mk14 weapons dynamic is left to be looked at. could pvp sooner then later be playable enough for me to log back on?
-id fix SS by removing the bonus crit and acc, or at least cutting it to the bone, and just give it the same DPS enhancement as CRF, wile keeping the less volleys/more damage per volleys it has.
-to reign in out of control exotic damage, first remove the 50% shield bypass FBP has, and give TBR and iso cannon a 50% shield bypass, not 100%. exotic damage is exploit damage when its the only type that gets to skip dealing with shields. feel free to tune base effectiveness of each from there too.
-instead of a global +30% health increase in pvp matches like you proposed, put a modifier on a match that sets all items to the old level-less rank. a huge chunk of extra hitpoints would greatly marginalize heals, regeneration would be much more important instead. if more of you're potential hitpoints are raw hp instead of ability based, sci debuffs, strips and disables are less harmful to you, similarly to how they are HARMLESS to npcs. basically everything but massive raw DPS and massive over-vape would end up marginalized actually, just like it is in pve. and we don't want pvp dumbed down into DPS league pve.
item rarity would still mater, and give an edge, but you would actually have a baseline from which too balance weapons damage around if it all sort of capes at a certain level available to every player, not just whales. that makes pvp MASSIVELY MORE APPROACHABLE for those that haven't blown the bank on upgrades, might make it seem worth it to them to buy more types of ships too, if they know its much easier to be pvp ready.
and whats more important then making players feel like buying ships? nothing.
so here's me trying to work with devs, instead of be a salty TRIBBLE. this ionic fix has me all hopeful.
One, this isn't the place for it, but two, I disagree that isokinetic cannon needs any fixes. It's very easy for someone to improve their build as to render it obselete. Your suggestions for surgical strikes are also bad- while the damage issue is a concern, turning it into 'CRF' is not the solution, especially when we already have CRF as a power. It would be better to leave the staggered firing cycle, but eliminate the extra damage boost/crit magnitude. Let people have their crit boats, but with that change the severity of their crits should drop down to be more in line with normal damage.
TBR and feedback pulse are both fine as is- it really seems like you're trying to fix the ultra extreme case of someone with 500 partigens skill using those powers, which they can only do wiht max investiure, four partigen consoles a +partigens exciter, a +partigens RCS, and using singularity manipulation once every three minutes.
If a tactical character can sacrifice everything to get a one-shot alpha strike once every minute, I see absolutely nothing wrong with letting a science character do it with TBR. At absolutely worst case, maybe the 500 partigens interaction needs a balance pass, it's possible that the game math is breaking down.
But your proposal to nerf into uselessness all the damaging sci powers is very disturbing.
One, this isn't the place for it, but two, I disagree that isokinetic cannon needs any fixes. It's very easy for someone to improve their build as to render it obselete. Your suggestions for surgical strikes are also bad- while the damage issue is a concern, turning it into 'CRF' is not the solution, especially when we already have CRF as a power. It would be better to leave the staggered firing cycle, but eliminate the extra damage boost/crit magnitude. Let people have their crit boats, but with that change the severity of their crits should drop down to be more in line with normal damage.
TBR and feedback pulse are both fine as is- it really seems like you're trying to fix the ultra extreme case of someone with 500 partigens skill using those powers, which they can only do wiht max investiure, four partigen consoles a +partigens exciter, a +partigens RCS, and using singularity manipulation once every three minutes.
If a tactical character can sacrifice everything to get a one-shot alpha strike once every minute, I see absolutely nothing wrong with letting a science character do it with TBR. At absolutely worst case, maybe the 500 partigens interaction needs a balance pass, it's possible that the game math is breaking down.
But your proposal to nerf into uselessness all the damaging sci powers is very disturbing.
isokinetic cannon doesnt needs any fixes, ptff, ya. there's nothing problematic with a huge chunk of 100% shield penetrating kinetic damage, powered by the 1 skill type that buffs all your other damage too, at the push of a button. SURE.
since when is it ok that one energy weapon damage buff be so much better then another, when they do the exact same single target thing? even if they dealt the same DPS, the higher damage per volley with SS already makes it much more deadly. damage is more front loaded, crits are bigger. plus it basically serves as a beam weapon single target buffed attack taht we have been missing. my proposal for it still keeps it an op skill :rolleyes:
FBP on average already deals more damage back then was received, thats not enough? really? REALLY? oh, but think of the bad builds! in this case, we must balance for them! TBR can basically match the DPS of energy weapons, and doesn't have to worry about shields AT ALL. only 50% pen is more then fair. also more then fair is seeing about buffing these skills from there, like i said.
tactical characters actually have to deal with shields. this is a big deal. they also have to max out an entire energy subsystem no sci has to even worry about. what subsystesm tends to get scarified for non sci ships, cause they actually have to worry about all subsystems? aux, a subsystem sci ships get all their defense, heals, and offense pumped up by. except TBR, it doesn't even need any power for damage. imagine if tacs had a skill that buffed weapons damage that needed no power to do it, lol! not only a single subsystem, but a single skill to spec into, and to slot items for. also, imagine if there was a trait giving you crit based on how many tac consoles you slot for your chosen energy weapon type. sci's don't have to imagine what thats like, they are living the dream!
so lets all line up and feel so sorry for poor sci caps and their game breaking exploit damage. the last time you sci's were balanced was season 8, before the nightmare of crafting was inflicted apon us. its nerf time, deal with it.
CRF3 fires a rapid series of volleys, let's say they do X damage per shot.
The proposed SS3 change should cut by three times the firing speed, and have each shot damage increased for three times the value of X.
Three times slower firing speed, shot three times more powerful. Means that if the target is idle, there would be no difference between CRF3 and SS3.
This means less chances for the hit to miss -> more potential damage than CRF.
Heals across the board should get a +30% effectiveness.
who mentioned buffing healing? i don't think its necessary, the best tanks in the game can hold off whole teams of DPS on their own, assuming there's no i win button ionic stun around.
healing did get nerfed with DR, in so that weapons got a huge buff, and raw hitpoints did too, wile healing didnt increase at all. now those same heals heal a smaller % of your hull then befor.
its probably at a more balanced level then it was before honestly. fix all the other game breaking problems and maybe we will be able to actually see how it is now in practice.
Just waiting for QA / Production to clear my checkins...
* Fixed the immunity period so that it actually applies.
* Extended the immunity period for players from 10sec to 20sec (NPCs still only get 10sec)
* The projectile now correctly flies at the target's current location, rather than tracking them.
these are some very welcome ajustments. i appreciate it very much that you are finally fixing this.
I thought I'd already talked about this before? Well, I'll say it again! "Out of Control" is a Repel+Hold effect. This is the intended design of the Control aspect of this boff ability.
Disable = Can move, cannot act Root = Can act, cannot move Hold = Cannot act nor move (aka "Stun" on Ground)
please consider giving aux to dampeners an immunity to the viral torpedo starship trait. since, from what u explained above, this seems to be a standard disable which should be resisted by it.
same goes for evade target lock.
It's something we're investigating internally. However, ship animations (like the Out of Control knock) are tricky. It's always safer to hold the ship in place/direction to avoid sudden jolts or position/facing changes when animating the ship.
Allow "free from Disable" effects:
Can you point out a few of these? They should be updated to break Holds also. But in my pre-coffee haze, I can't think of any off the top of my head.
attack pattern omega can be activated while "held" and has also a given immunity against disable.
maybe consider this one as a possible "free from disable" power.
please consider giving aux to dampeners an immunity to the viral torpedo starship trait. since, from what u explained above, this seems to be a standard disable which should be resisted by it.
same goes for evade target lock.
Turns out that the Viral Torpedo was flagged as "No Resistance / Immunity" which is a bit overkill. It will be changed in a future patch to respect Resists / Immunity, which should include those granted by Aux2Damp.
Jeremy Randall
Cryptic - Lead Systems Designer
"Play smart!"
Turns out that the Viral Torpedo was flagged as "No Resistance / Immunity" which is a bit overkill. It will be changed in a future patch to respect Resists / Immunity, which should include those granted by Aux2Damp.
one's finally about to become a hero [bugfix hunting]x3 [forumhitter/openear]. thx bort !
i assume it will be within the disable-lockout-range as well?
btw/ignore if already on radar: ionics debuff still persists after respawn.
Turns out that the Viral Torpedo was flagged as "No Resistance / Immunity" which is a bit overkill. It will be changed in a future patch to respect Resists / Immunity, which should include those granted by Aux2Damp.
This is a very nice change, thank you borticus :cool:
Turns out that the Viral Torpedo was flagged as "No Resistance / Immunity" which is a bit overkill. It will be changed in a future patch to respect Resists / Immunity, which should include those granted by Aux2Damp.
Glad all these things are getting looked at and fixed.
who mentioned buffing healing? i don't think its necessary, the best tanks in the game can hold off whole teams of DPS on their own, assuming there's no i win button ionic stun around.
Agreed. Healing doesn't need buffs. Excluding broken things (Surgical Strike, Neutronic Torp, Viral Torp, Ionic Turbulence), I do no have a hard time tanking or healing.
The fed Starship Traits from DR more than make up for any nerfing that happened to healing/tanking in S9. Unfortunately, nearly all the heal/tank Starship Traits are exclusive to feds, but I'll leave that for another discussion.
Bort, thank you very much for the PvP related fixes you are doing!
Turns out that the Viral Torpedo was flagged as "No Resistance / Immunity" which is a bit overkill. It will be changed in a future patch to respect Resists / Immunity, which should include those granted by Aux2Damp.
As a viral torpedo user, YESSSS, I am very pleased to see this fix checked in.
i assume it will be within the disable-lockout-range as well?
Nah, if it respects resists/immunities, it doesn't need a lockout period, because it's only 5 seconds assuming NO RESISTS, and you can only do it every 30 seconds.
If you give it a lockout period in addition to the long cooldown and being affected by immunities/resists you'll render it completely impotent- as in: it won't actually do anything, ever.
This way it's still useful, but much better balanced and not too overwhelmingly powerful.
As a viral torpedo user, YESSSS, I am very pleased to see this fix checked in.
Nah, if it respects resists/immunities, it doesn't need a lockout period, because it's only 5 seconds assuming NO RESISTS, and you can only do it every 30 seconds.
If you give it a lockout period in addition to the long cooldown and being affected by immunities/resists you'll render it completely impotent- as in: it won't actually do anything, ever.
This way it's still useful, but much better balanced and not too overwhelmingly powerful.
hmm... even if, let's say 2 vapers use it both? goin on the same target? i think chain-disable fixing should include all(!) disables .
the fact that res was not counted in shouldn't change that imo.
if it was on me i'd say we don't need any disables or placates at all in pvp. it just suc** to get hit by such and kinda turns players into defensless npc's ;-(.
Comments
Ok, then I second the sentiment from tk79 of changing it from Hold, although I think Root might be better than Disable, at least I can use a clicky console or FBP with Root to do something more than just sit there and die.
Very true. Intel abilites seem to get a pass on everything.
Aux2Damp is supposed to provide IMMUNITY to disable effects, but it doesn't provide any immunity to Ionic Turbulence, the intel ship active scan disable power, or viral torpedo. It should make you immune for its duration to all of these.
Intelligence team should be activatable and remove the hold from ionic turbulence, given that it is an intel power and that's sort of the whole point of intel team. It currently doesn't.
Ideally either science or engineering team would also remove the debuff, similar to viral matrix or subnucleonic beam.
EDIT: The battery consoles like enhanced plasma manifolds say 'repairs disabled subsystems'- maybe make this apply to holds? Or make it turn a hold into a root? That'd be an interesting interaction.
It's because Ionic Turbulence is a Hold. I may be mistaken, but it is probably one of the very few Hold powers in space, if not the only one, as everything else seems to be Disables, and there are probably no counters to Hold in space at all.
(As an off-topic example, same happens with Physical Damage from Nukara Web Mines. Nothing protects against Physical Damage in space, so it does full damage, always, and gets full benefits of resistance debuffs.)
EDIT: the Intel scan power and Viral Torpedo might be other examples of Holds. With Bort's explanation, the issue sounds very clear to me now: Holds != Disables.
STO Screenshot Archive
Improve all powers that give resistance or immunity to disables to also do the same against holds. Including but not limited to: Auxiliary to Dampeners, Attack Pattern Omega (?), and [edit] Starship Inertial Dampeners skill.
STO Screenshot Archive
APO is already a bit of a Swiss army knife, I would not give it the ability. Even though Attack Pattern Delta has no such resistances in any other way, maybe that's a power that could utilize such a buff. (Anyone still use APD?)
The "?" in APO was because Stowiki mentioned Immunity to Disables in its Rank III. At this time, I am unable to confirm if APO gives disable immunity for the duration.
STO Screenshot Archive
Me, I use APD.
Necessary for my build.
As far I have seen Engineering team clears the Ionic Turbulence so you can escape the cloud. And I also use APD 1 instead of APB 1 for any PvP I do.
Please enable us to buy a token with Zen to faction change a 25th Century FED to a TOS FED.
-id fix SS by removing the bonus crit and acc, or at least cutting it to the bone, and just give it the same DPS enhancement as CRF, wile keeping the less volleys/more damage per volleys it has.
-to reign in out of control exotic damage, first remove the 50% shield bypass FBP has, and give TBR and iso cannon a 50% shield bypass, not 100%. exotic damage is exploit damage when its the only type that gets to skip dealing with shields. feel free to tune base effectiveness of each from there too.
-instead of a global +30% health increase in pvp matches like you proposed, put a modifier on a match that sets all items to the old level-less rank. a huge chunk of extra hitpoints would greatly marginalize heals, regeneration would be much more important instead. if more of you're potential hitpoints are raw hp instead of ability based, sci debuffs, strips and disables are less harmful to you, similarly to how they are HARMLESS to npcs. basically everything but massive raw DPS and massive over-vape would end up marginalized actually, just like it is in pve. and we don't want pvp dumbed down into DPS league pve.
item rarity would still mater, and give an edge, but you would actually have a baseline from which too balance weapons damage around if it all sort of capes at a certain level available to every player, not just whales. that makes pvp MASSIVELY MORE APPROACHABLE for those that haven't blown the bank on upgrades, might make it seem worth it to them to buy more types of ships too, if they know its much easier to be pvp ready.
and whats more important then making players feel like buying ships? nothing.
so here's me trying to work with devs, instead of be a salty TRIBBLE. this ionic fix has me all hopeful.
TBR and feedback pulse are both fine as is- it really seems like you're trying to fix the ultra extreme case of someone with 500 partigens skill using those powers, which they can only do wiht max investiure, four partigen consoles a +partigens exciter, a +partigens RCS, and using singularity manipulation once every three minutes.
If a tactical character can sacrifice everything to get a one-shot alpha strike once every minute, I see absolutely nothing wrong with letting a science character do it with TBR. At absolutely worst case, maybe the 500 partigens interaction needs a balance pass, it's possible that the game math is breaking down.
But your proposal to nerf into uselessness all the damaging sci powers is very disturbing.
isokinetic cannon doesnt needs any fixes, ptff, ya. there's nothing problematic with a huge chunk of 100% shield penetrating kinetic damage, powered by the 1 skill type that buffs all your other damage too, at the push of a button. SURE.
since when is it ok that one energy weapon damage buff be so much better then another, when they do the exact same single target thing? even if they dealt the same DPS, the higher damage per volley with SS already makes it much more deadly. damage is more front loaded, crits are bigger. plus it basically serves as a beam weapon single target buffed attack taht we have been missing. my proposal for it still keeps it an op skill :rolleyes:
FBP on average already deals more damage back then was received, thats not enough? really? REALLY? oh, but think of the bad builds! in this case, we must balance for them! TBR can basically match the DPS of energy weapons, and doesn't have to worry about shields AT ALL. only 50% pen is more then fair. also more then fair is seeing about buffing these skills from there, like i said.
tactical characters actually have to deal with shields. this is a big deal. they also have to max out an entire energy subsystem no sci has to even worry about. what subsystesm tends to get scarified for non sci ships, cause they actually have to worry about all subsystems? aux, a subsystem sci ships get all their defense, heals, and offense pumped up by. except TBR, it doesn't even need any power for damage. imagine if tacs had a skill that buffed weapons damage that needed no power to do it, lol! not only a single subsystem, but a single skill to spec into, and to slot items for. also, imagine if there was a trait giving you crit based on how many tac consoles you slot for your chosen energy weapon type. sci's don't have to imagine what thats like, they are living the dream!
so lets all line up and feel so sorry for poor sci caps and their game breaking exploit damage. the last time you sci's were balanced was season 8, before the nightmare of crafting was inflicted apon us. its nerf time, deal with it.
CRF3 fires a rapid series of volleys, let's say they do X damage per shot.
The proposed SS3 change should cut by three times the firing speed, and have each shot damage increased for three times the value of X.
Three times slower firing speed, shot three times more powerful. Means that if the target is idle, there would be no difference between CRF3 and SS3.
This means less chances for the hit to miss -> more potential damage than CRF.
Heals across the board should get a +30% effectiveness.
As for the rest, I don't have any issues.
Just combine biotech patch with a shield with the [Heal] mod and you've got 25% right there.
healing did get nerfed with DR, in so that weapons got a huge buff, and raw hitpoints did too, wile healing didnt increase at all. now those same heals heal a smaller % of your hull then befor.
its probably at a more balanced level then it was before honestly. fix all the other game breaking problems and maybe we will be able to actually see how it is now in practice.
these are some very welcome ajustments. i appreciate it very much that you are finally fixing this.
thanks
please consider giving aux to dampeners an immunity to the viral torpedo starship trait. since, from what u explained above, this seems to be a standard disable which should be resisted by it.
same goes for evade target lock.
regards
attack pattern omega can be activated while "held" and has also a given immunity against disable.
maybe consider this one as a possible "free from disable" power.
Turns out that the Viral Torpedo was flagged as "No Resistance / Immunity" which is a bit overkill. It will be changed in a future patch to respect Resists / Immunity, which should include those granted by Aux2Damp.
Cryptic - Lead Systems Designer
"Play smart!"
one's finally about to become a hero [bugfix hunting]x3 [forumhitter/openear]
i assume it will be within the disable-lockout-range as well?
btw/ignore if already on radar: ionics debuff still persists after respawn.
This is a very nice change, thank you borticus :cool:
Glad all these things are getting looked at and fixed.
Agreed. Healing doesn't need buffs. Excluding broken things (Surgical Strike, Neutronic Torp, Viral Torp, Ionic Turbulence), I do no have a hard time tanking or healing.
The fed Starship Traits from DR more than make up for any nerfing that happened to healing/tanking in S9. Unfortunately, nearly all the heal/tank Starship Traits are exclusive to feds, but I'll leave that for another discussion.
Bort, thank you very much for the PvP related fixes you are doing!
Finn
As a viral torpedo user, YESSSS, I am very pleased to see this fix checked in.
Nah, if it respects resists/immunities, it doesn't need a lockout period, because it's only 5 seconds assuming NO RESISTS, and you can only do it every 30 seconds.
If you give it a lockout period in addition to the long cooldown and being affected by immunities/resists you'll render it completely impotent- as in: it won't actually do anything, ever.
This way it's still useful, but much better balanced and not too overwhelmingly powerful.
hmm... even if, let's say 2 vapers use it both? goin on the same target? i think chain-disable fixing should include all(!) disables
the fact that res was not counted in shouldn't change that imo.
if it was on me i'd say we don't need any disables or placates at all in pvp. it just suc** to get hit by such and kinda turns players into defensless npc's ;-(.