I am a bit of a lost in wondering what Federation ship is the "NEW" Federation Flagship, class wise. It is obvious that the Oddy is now obsolete & semi-defunct with or without an upgrade token.
The Enterprise NCC 1701 F is officially obsolete compared to all the new ships in the market. If the Oddy is still the flagship class of the Federation, than the ship itself desrves a full Tier 6 upgrade or a Tier 6 Variant with the appropriate Intel and Command BO's.
If the Oddy is no longer relevant, then which of the new command ships is the official flagship of the Federation?
The flagship doesn't mean it's the newest. Just because new ships come out doesn't mean they retire old ones. Just because intel and command cruisers show up doesn't mean they automatically reassign the Enterprise F. It doesn't work that way.
The Enterprise F (the Oddy version) is the flagship and will remain so.
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rattler2Member, Star Trek Online ModeratorPosts: 58,561Community Moderator
edited February 2015
The Enterprise-F has something we don't. Plot Armor mk 99. Same goes for the Bortasqu and Lieset. To us they may be T5/T5U, but the named ships might as well be godships until Cryptic decides its time for them to go.
It is obvious that the Oddy is now obsolete & semi-defunct with or without an upgrade token. . .
The Enterprise NCC 1701 F is officially obsolete compared to all the new ships in the market.
With this as your faulty starting premise, your argument falls apart.
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rattler2Member, Star Trek Online ModeratorPosts: 58,561Community Moderator
edited February 2015
Was the USS Enterprise NCC-1701 automatically replaced when the Excelsior was commissioned? Was the Enterprise-A any less relevant with the Excelsior in service?
I am a bit of a lost in wondering what Federation ship is the "NEW" Federation Flagship, class wise. It is obvious that the Oddy is now obsolete & semi-defunct with or without an upgrade token.
The Enterprise NCC 1701 F is officially obsolete compared to all the new ships in the market. If the Oddy is still the flagship class of the Federation, than the ship itself desrves a full Tier 6 upgrade or a Tier 6 Variant with the appropriate Intel and Command BO's.
If the Oddy is no longer relevant, then which of the new command ships is the official flagship of the Federation?
Was the USS Enterprise NCC-1701 automatically replaced when the Excelsior was commissioned? Was the Enterprise-A any less relevant with the Excelsior in service?
Yes, the Enterprise-A was a glorified diplomatic courier.
Point taken, so its not the tech itself but what it represent, somewhat of a token ship that represent all. Funny though, you would think they would outfit the flagship with the latest bells and whistles, and commission a new one.
As it was mentioned regarding the Excelsior, the Enterprise was commissioned as a superior excelsior class, though Harriman was a dumbass Captain, LOL.
The argument is a moot point. The Enterprise F is our flagship. It's all about the captain you know. Just because you can't pilot an Oddy worth a darn, doesn't mean she's not great.
Well, no. If you will recall, the reason the Enterprise was selected to extend the olive branch to Chancellor Gorkon was due to the Klingons "thinking twice" about attacking the Enterprise under Kirk's command.
As for the topic at hand, the Enterprise F is still the flagship and the Oddy is by no means a hunk of junk.
Well yes. It was send because of KIRK not because of the ship beeing so awesome.
Additionally: no where in tos was mentioned that the enterprise was the flagship (only the jar jar film did say that but that does not count for our version of the universe)
Neither was mentioned that the ent a, b, c or e were flagships, only the d was officially the flagship.
And while in real life a ship would not be replaced because of a newer version... Some other ship might be declared flagship.
And in game... Well.. That rule doesn't count here because in game we need balance in a way that does not exist in the real world. And here the odysee is obsolete.
T6 Intel ships are specialist vessels - they're not flagship materials.
As for Command ships, my guess is they're specialist ships too - kind of like the situation in the "Lensman" series, where the fleet's command vessel (the Directrix, socially) was a specialised thing full of computers and three-D visuals, and the actual flagship was Kinnison's Dauntless.
(And T5-U <> obsolete. Not in my experience, anyway.)
The Odyssey retrofit will come in 3 varieties, Intel, Command and ???. It will be the result of a breakthrough in understanding Dyson tech.
It will sport dual solar plasma cannons, be able to deploy drones and the escort as well as spit off it's central saucer section and battle saucer. It will also have the ability to perform an advanced Picard maneuver.
The argument is a moot point. The Enterprise F is our flagship. It's all about the captain you know. Just because you can't pilot an Oddy worth a darn, doesn't mean she's not great.
LOL! Bravo, sir! Bravo!
There are players that will take older ships and perform. There are players that will take obsolete ships and perform. There are players that will take weak ships and still perform. There are players that will take old, obsolete, weak ships, and make them shine.
Well, no. If you will recall, the reason the Enterprise was selected to extend the olive branch to Chancellor Gorkon was due to the Klingons "thinking twice" about attacking the Enterprise under Kirk's command.
Correct on that! Even among the Klingons, Kirk's reputation among the Klingons is held in very good esteem. Also this from Memory Alpha:
"Klingons, in particular, recognized Kirk as a worthy opponent. The legendary Kor, frustrated by Organian interference that made battle against Kirk impossible, wistfully surmised, "it would have been glorious" in 2267. Captain Klaa believed defeating Kirk would make him the greatest warrior in the galaxy in 2287. General Chang reveled in his attack on Kirk at the Battle of Khitomer, until he lost his advantage. During a visit to the 23rd century, even Lt. Commander Worf remarked that it would be an honor to meet Kirk. Lt. Commander Jadzia Dax also commented that Koloth always regretted not getting the chance to face Kirk in battle."
The Odyssey has been an outdated piece of junk practically since it was released. It's never been, and never will be a good ship. She's pretty, and has a glorious bridge.. but her consoles and boff seating just aren't very good. So if you're going by "usefulness" then the Ody is laughable as a flagship.
To me though, the Ody isn't outdated because of those reasons though. The flagship doesn't have to be the newest, biggest, or best ship out there. It's outdated because the new command ships are what a flagship should be - command ships. Back when the Ody was released, those didn't exist as a mechanic in the game - so the Ody isn't one.
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rattler2Member, Star Trek Online ModeratorPosts: 58,561Community Moderator
Point taken, so its not the tech itself but what it represent, somewhat of a token ship that represent all. Funny though, you would think they would outfit the flagship with the latest bells and whistles, and commission a new one.
As it was mentioned regarding the Excelsior, the Enterprise was commissioned as a superior excelsior class, though Harriman was a dumbass Captain, LOL.
How long had Kirk been in command of the Enterprise? And considering the Enterprise-A used to be the Yorktown... It technically was time to pass the torch by then. Harriman just didn't have the same level of experience as Kirk. But I think his willingness to get his hands dirty before Kirk volunteered says something about the character, dispite the limited screentime. I can also understand not wanting to take a ship that wasn't even fully outfitted or staffed into a dangerous situation as well, as they were just not ready for anything.
The Ody(plus KDF/RRF) flagships have special BOff powers/seating & stats. They aren't your normal ships. Go play the Episodes where you have special guest BOffs on ships(like the Dyson ship Ep). Those Boff powers would totally kill in players hands. Have you seen a log of the powers Ent-F uses when in battle? Do enough Romulan Patrols & you'll see her in battle.
Odyssey is and will remain the Flagship until CBS says otherwise. They were the ones who gave Cryptic the right to use that name, as part of the chose the next Enterprise competition.
Sooner or later we're likely to get a T6 version. Probably once we have a 3rd Specialization, so that they can squeeze all 3 into the Odyssey (and the other 2 Flagships). Probably with the Eng Cmdr on the Oddy and Bort being Eng/Hybrid Command, and the Lt. Cmdr Universal being Universal/UniSpec. Or making the Eng version across all 3 change depending on sub-class (Tac/???, Eng/Command, Sci/Intel).
Regardless of which starship class was given flagship status in our game story, I feel safe interpreting any NPC Hero Ship for any of the factions to perform as one tier above whatever is available to player's at any given time. The player's version of that same class of starship will never achieve the same status and I'm alright with that premise.
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Comments
The flagship doesn't mean it's the newest. Just because new ships come out doesn't mean they retire old ones. Just because intel and command cruisers show up doesn't mean they automatically reassign the Enterprise F. It doesn't work that way.
The Enterprise F (the Oddy version) is the flagship and will remain so.
None of them
Yes, the Enterprise-A was a glorified diplomatic courier.
As it was mentioned regarding the Excelsior, the Enterprise was commissioned as a superior excelsior class, though Harriman was a dumbass Captain, LOL.
1. The Enterprise-F is not going anywhere, and it has superior powers/stats already. No 'specialization' nonsense required.
2. Of course Cryptic will release a T6 Oddy refit... either through the next fleet holding, or in a new C-Store offering.
Well yes. It was send because of KIRK not because of the ship beeing so awesome.
Additionally: no where in tos was mentioned that the enterprise was the flagship (only the jar jar film did say that but that does not count for our version of the universe)
Neither was mentioned that the ent a, b, c or e were flagships, only the d was officially the flagship.
And while in real life a ship would not be replaced because of a newer version... Some other ship might be declared flagship.
And in game... Well.. That rule doesn't count here because in game we need balance in a way that does not exist in the real world. And here the odysee is obsolete.
As for Command ships, my guess is they're specialist ships too - kind of like the situation in the "Lensman" series, where the fleet's command vessel (the Directrix, socially) was a specialised thing full of computers and three-D visuals, and the actual flagship was Kinnison's Dauntless.
(And T5-U <> obsolete. Not in my experience, anyway.)
It will sport dual solar plasma cannons, be able to deploy drones and the escort as well as spit off it's central saucer section and battle saucer. It will also have the ability to perform an advanced Picard maneuver.
LOL! Bravo, sir! Bravo!
There are players that will take older ships and perform. There are players that will take obsolete ships and perform. There are players that will take weak ships and still perform. There are players that will take old, obsolete, weak ships, and make them shine.
Correct on that! Even among the Klingons, Kirk's reputation among the Klingons is held in very good esteem. Also this from Memory Alpha:
"Klingons, in particular, recognized Kirk as a worthy opponent. The legendary Kor, frustrated by Organian interference that made battle against Kirk impossible, wistfully surmised, "it would have been glorious" in 2267. Captain Klaa believed defeating Kirk would make him the greatest warrior in the galaxy in 2287. General Chang reveled in his attack on Kirk at the Battle of Khitomer, until he lost his advantage. During a visit to the 23rd century, even Lt. Commander Worf remarked that it would be an honor to meet Kirk. Lt. Commander Jadzia Dax also commented that Koloth always regretted not getting the chance to face Kirk in battle."
Also, they can always up the Oddy at some point.
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My forum single-issue of rage: Make the Proton Experimental Weapon go for subsystem targetting!
No, but if Kirk arrived in a Miranda or an Oberth class Enterprise-A, I imagine the TUC would be the same.
To me though, the Ody isn't outdated because of those reasons though. The flagship doesn't have to be the newest, biggest, or best ship out there. It's outdated because the new command ships are what a flagship should be - command ships. Back when the Ody was released, those didn't exist as a mechanic in the game - so the Ody isn't one.
How long had Kirk been in command of the Enterprise? And considering the Enterprise-A used to be the Yorktown... It technically was time to pass the torch by then. Harriman just didn't have the same level of experience as Kirk. But I think his willingness to get his hands dirty before Kirk volunteered says something about the character, dispite the limited screentime. I can also understand not wanting to take a ship that wasn't even fully outfitted or staffed into a dangerous situation as well, as they were just not ready for anything.
It's all in how you use it, my friend.
Sooner or later we're likely to get a T6 version. Probably once we have a 3rd Specialization, so that they can squeeze all 3 into the Odyssey (and the other 2 Flagships). Probably with the Eng Cmdr on the Oddy and Bort being Eng/Hybrid Command, and the Lt. Cmdr Universal being Universal/UniSpec. Or making the Eng version across all 3 change depending on sub-class (Tac/???, Eng/Command, Sci/Intel).
I may be in the minority, but if they do go for a new Flagship, I wanna hear of another Flagship name instead.
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