Keep in mind too that the devs are planning on giving us more options into how we're able to get the skill points necessary to level/gain a specialization points.
If other patrols had increased xp rewards like argala, PvE queues had a bigger return on time investment for doing those, and if all adventure zones had skill point rewards whenever we completed something, would we still be able to call it a grind?
If there were more XP and skillpoints as rewards it would be less of a grind but more of a reward system, fair and fast for everyone. But afaik the specs were supposed to replace the skills (thaty why we cant use our skillpoints we get from Lvl 50 on) but it never took me 1-2 years to fill my skill tree so why 1-2 years for the specs?
Its too long in relation to Rep. systems, too long in relation to the skill tree, to other masteries...
IT should feel like a reward, also for casual players, not only for those who can already buy their way to the top. but with the current requirements its no reward, its a punishment because the progress is too slow
This goes for me, too. It came as a bit of culture shock, to me, when DR arrived and my "end-game" main character wasn't end-game any more... I wonder if some people expect their level-cap toons to be "finished", as it were, and don't like the "not-finished-yet" aspect of still needing to fill out the spec trees. Me, I'm not losing any sleep over it. If anything, the spec points are something to aim for... I'm not worried about not having all of them yet, nor am I fretting about levelling-up efficiency and doing calculations about the superiority of grinding Argala as a source of XP.
I'm just trundling around the galaxy trying to have some fun. Works for me, whatever level I'm on.
And a lot of players would STILL want to do that. But the game is so unbalanced that doing our usual business ends up with such a tiny xp reward, it's barely worth mentioning.
Let's take some endgame content pre and post DR.
STF : 2K xp, 75stf for a single spec point ->ridiculous
Battlezone : negligible amount of xp. Quests doesn't award xp at all for the Voth bz. No quests on the Undine one, and no real interests to play on the kobali once the main quests are over. Most of the xp comes from random quests anyway. Also, you either have ground xp (IE pretty much nothing), or the lvl50 space xp (IE nerfed).
Foundry : XP capped at a certain amount (xp and loot works together, by capping XP you cap the loot to).
Episode : replay is worth 2Kxp + kill, which is really low. A new episode is worth more (10K + kill I think), but let's face it, that's not something we have often enough to be noteworthy.
I played several games with parallel xp/progression or whatever you call it. And usually it works fine, because you earn it while doing what you used to do. It's not really a goal, but merely a side reward. Also, you usually have alternative to that, for casuals/alts, for example wait time vs points.
In STO, it takes WEEKS for a single spec point, if you do what you used to do (unless it was grinding patrol and doffing, then it's much better). I know this is my situation.
On the other hand, you have Argala, and it's 8K-10K xp per run.
So you have a choice. Either never have anything meaningful in the spec tree, and basically ignore the entire feature, or grind.
I think it's bad for a videogame to introduce a feature that is meant to be ignored by the large majority of players. But that's just me.
They should introduce a daily mission with a 20hr cooldown that awards a substantial amount of specialization points scaled to whatever your current spec level is. Like 75% of a full spec point, no matter how many points you already have.
And, cap the number of points you can hold without application at 10 or possibly less.
the only problem with spec points is that the only "content" that awards them is argala/gerren.
if more content awarded spec points, there wouldnt be a problem with them
But you know they're just going to nerf those two patrol missions and set everything else as the new "above baseline" before quietly nerfing everything else one bit of content at a time.
If other patrols had increased xp rewards like argala, PvE queues had a bigger return on time investment for doing those, and if all adventure zones had skill point rewards whenever we completed something, would we still be able to call it a grind?
As far as we know, Cryptic sees the lower rewards as being the optimal setup.
Just because they paid lip service to the concept of making the grind less time consuming, does not mean they'll actually follow through.
More likely, some employee will spend the next few weeks developing some buffs to spec point gain, only to have Cryptic upper management or PWE lower management block the changes at the last minute.
The odds of them actually increasing the spec point gain across the entire game to double what Argala currently provides are miniscule.
Time for a talk with the dev's about content balance and difficulty methinks...
Dear wall, I know you and I have had our difficulties and I know I am compiling my sin by not posting this on Reddit, but we really need to talk ?
What do you mean Argala is over awarding ?
Do you mean that when you nerf Argala and maybe you adjust the specialization point earnings in the rest of the game, we will earn less points and advance slower then we do now @ Argala ???
Anyone who is grinding Argala for spec points is a moron IMO.
A weeks worth of Doffing can get you a spec level. Running regular content gets you plenty experience, even some PVE's. Heck, you get a **** ton of exp. just blowing stuff up anywhere now.
Try Starbase 24 solo runs for example. 5-6 of those can get you a spec level, and 2-3 of them can master a starship completely. Not to mention COMPLETELY fill your inventory in a run and get the bonus very rare mk XII items for yourself and some dilithium to boot.
Or try blowing up Borg in Kerrat. When you hit level 60, the Kerrat Borg are now level 64 and give a ton of exp, and you get to fight off other players at the same time and actually learn how to play the game.
Anyone who is grinding Argala for spec points is a moron IMO.
A weeks worth of Doffing can get you a spec level. Running regular content gets you plenty experience, even some PVE's. Heck, you get a **** ton of exp. just blowing stuff up anywhere now.
Try Starbase 24 solo runs for example. 5-6 of those can get you a spec level, and 2-3 of them can master a starship completely. Not to mention COMPLETELY fill your inventory in a run and get the bonus very rare mk XII items for yourself and some dilithium to boot.
Or try blowing up Borg in Kerrat. When you hit level 60, the Kerrat Borg are now level 64 and give a ton of exp, and you get to fight off other players at the same time and actually learn how to play the game.
Anyone who is grinding Argala for spec points is a moron IMO.
A weeks worth of Doffing can get you a spec level. Running regular content gets you plenty experience, even some PVE's. Heck, you get a **** ton of exp. just blowing stuff up anywhere now.
Try Starbase 24 solo runs for example. 5-6 of those can get you a spec level, and 2-3 of them can master a starship completely. Not to mention COMPLETELY fill your inventory in a run and get the bonus very rare mk XII items for yourself and some dilithium to boot.
Or try blowing up Borg in Kerrat. When you hit level 60, the Kerrat Borg are now level 64 and give a ton of exp, and you get to fight off other players at the same time and actually learn how to play the game.
No, people who play the game differently than you aren't morons...
You prefer doffing and soloing starbase 24. Others apparently have more fun running argala than doing that. They're both valid ways to play. I tried running argala to try to masteryify my favorite ships and ended up partly finishing some on 1 character. Then I started running nukara and voth ground and even nimbus. A lot of people would probably balk at my preference for ground content over space content the same you you do at argala. I have fun anyway though.
You oonly get Access to traits and Kits/abilities with a high number of points invested in the pecs.
So? It's not like you need those for anything either.
If you really like grinding those spec points (and I know there are people who do), good for you go right ahead. But if you hate it, stop doing it instead of complaining here for months on end how the Evil Conspiracy forces you to and how the game is no fun. Nobody's forcing you to do it but you.
You can work a part time job for 3 months instead of grinding Argala.
a = approximate number of argala runs to reach one point = 20
b = approximate time per run (minutes) = 10
c = time per point = b * a = 200
d = number of points to fill after lvl 60 = (90 - 10) = 80
total time to completion = c * d = 16,000 minutes = 266.7 hours = 11.1 days
Why do people defend the pay to progress model? Why do they defend the crazy insane cries for everything to be so difficult you have to die 99% of the time before you succeed at a run? Why do people defend the notion of cronie capitalism?
Same reasons really. Those people live in another world entirely, they don't seem to be able to handle the truth about situations so instead of making things better they try their best to continue to parrot those compelling statements that have no logic or reasoning behind them but somehow sound good to these people. Despite years of evidence that grind doesn't make a game better it makes them worse, we still have people who aren't thinkers they are just puppets.
One, as others have noted, I'm more intent on grinding dil, EC, etc.
Two, I have been and remain very very reluctant (due to the lack of any respec option) to invest in/commit to any spec tree until more are revealed. I'm guessing there's going to be at least one more, going by the apparent pattern of Intel being a hybrid of Sci and Tac, and Command of Eng and Tac. "Logic" suggests that we'll be getting something like Eng/Sci, and possibly others if they can think of any.
Three, while you'd never know it from how much time I spend in the game, I'm a rather "casual" player. I run PvE on Normal and I PvP maybe once a month, only with fleeties, who I regularly have to ask for build advice. I'm a roleplayer and a storyteller/writer. I've been a Star Trek fan since TOS reruns and the Animated Series, back in the 70s, and I'm here for the theme, not to "beat" the game.
Four, I have a total of nine characters. While one of them is definitely my 'main', I play all of them at least semi-actively. Keeping them all decently (IMO) geared, usually with some degree of Rep grinding, is chore enough (and sometimes I've fallen behind, still IMO); grinding them all up to full Spec tree(s) would be a Sisyphean task. But I'm okay with that. As with the vast majority of the new ships that have been added to the C-store, there is almost nothing there that I cannot do without. I'm in no hurry.
Why do people defend the pay to progress model? Why do they defend the crazy insane cries for everything to be so difficult you have to die 99% of the time before you succeed at a run? Why do people defend the notion of cronie capitalism?
Same reasons really. Those people live in another world entirely, they don't seem to be able to handle the truth about situations so instead of making things better they try their best to continue to parrot those compelling statements that have no logic or reasoning behind them but somehow sound good to these people. Despite years of evidence that grind doesn't make a game better it makes them worse, we still have people who aren't thinkers they are just puppets.
Not really sure what you're on about, but fact is that story content can always be played endlessly faster than it can be written. So, every MMO will need to add a grind, for that reason alone.
There must also always be attainable goals (like the next rep gear, or new spec tree), lest ppl walk away.
There must also always be attainable goals (like the next rep gear, or new spec tree), lest ppl walk away.
People walk away regardless.
For the amount of spec points needed to fully max out at the moment, they could easily set everything to double argala payout and that would still be plenty of grind, when piled on top of the rep system, the upgrade system, and the need to grind some resource to get lock box sourced items.
"Tolerance and apathy are the last virtues of a dying society." - Aristotle
I don't do it, and see not doing it as a potential barrier to being able to do elite.
Yes, but why do you really need (not "want", that's another thing, though they're often confused) to do elite? To get the rewards you need to... do elite?
There's an old joke, almost as old as me, about making more money, so you can do more cocaine... so you can make more money... to do more coke...
posted by meimetoo
Not really sure what you're on about, but fact is that story content can always be played endlessly faster than it can be written. So, every MMO will need to add a grind, for that reason alone.
There must also always be attainable goals (like the next rep gear, or new spec tree), lest ppl walk away.
This stuck me as very valid point. Without an alternative means no developer can hope to keep pace with the consumption of content. Most of Cryptic games have at least attempted to address this unavoidable deficit. The foundry in it's various incarnations attempts to place some creation of content into the hands of the community.
I like this. You can't get much more I.D.I.C. than this which is a great feature to have in any MMO particularly in one with a Star Trek theme. development time was earmarked for to improve the foundry tools; making them more versatile, accessible and provide some form of compensation for the effort that goes into making a good story it would make the game better. People squander hours playing a vacuous mini game because they see a reward. Why not provide an appropriate incentive to do some worthwhile and build a better game for everyone?
I don't understand how people can say it isn't necessary to grind skill points. you miss out on having abilities, powers and ship traits from not having an active tree.
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EDIT:
You guys take things to the extremes. It takes about 20 Argala turn-ins to get 1 spec point. Argala is awrading 4x normal xp for time investment according to Geko.
20x4=80 runs
now it takes about 10 minutes to run it for the average player
80x10=800 minutes -- 800/60=13.3 hours
so 13.3 hours is required for the intended play time to get 1 spec point
not counting points gained from 50-60
13.3 hours x 80 spec points = 1,064 hours to fill em all up.
that would require 44.3 days of CONTINUOUS play to do. Meaning non-stop.
This is what is ridiculous and why people are grinding Argala now while it is still possible to get 4x exp for time investment
I do not grind for spec points. I simply play the game. In fact, I have never even used any of my spec points on any of my toons yet; the most I have is 23 on one of them. I have not felt the need to use those points yet.
Why is maxing out spec points such a grind? The answer is obvious... it is there so that players who wants to max out their toons will have something to do and they will need to log into the game to do it. The more you feel that you must max out all your toons, the more you impel yourself to play the game. If obtaining spec points was not such a grind, then players who quickly max out their toons will have less of a reason to play STO as much as they can. It is a mechanic that feeds off a player's ego / desire to have the best of the best. It seems to work very well 'cuz if people are grind then that means they are playing STO.
I will eventually max out my spec points and use them, but I will do it at my own pace...
Yes, but why do you really need (not "want", that's another thing, though they're often confused) to do elite? To get the rewards you need to... do elite?
You never need to do Elite. You want to do Elite, for the challenge, if you like that sort of thing. If you like things easy you should play Normal instead.
The only Elite-exclusive reward in the game is Salvaged Technology, which is tradeable. So while someone needs to do Elite to get it, it doesn't have to be you. And then of course, you don't really need any ST either. You can do perfectly fine without it.
And a lot of players would STILL want to do that. But the game is so unbalanced that doing our usual business ends up with such a tiny xp reward, it's barely worth mentioning.
Let's take some endgame content pre and post DR.
STF : 2K xp, 75stf for a single spec point ->ridiculous
Battlezone : negligible amount of xp. Quests doesn't award xp at all for the Voth bz. No quests on the Undine one, and no real interests to play on the kobali once the main quests are over. Most of the xp comes from random quests anyway. Also, you either have ground xp (IE pretty much nothing), or the lvl50 space xp (IE nerfed).
Foundry : XP capped at a certain amount (xp and loot works together, by capping XP you cap the loot to).
Episode : replay is worth 2Kxp + kill, which is really low. A new episode is worth more (10K + kill I think), but let's face it, that's not something we have often enough to be noteworthy.
I played several games with parallel xp/progression or whatever you call it. And usually it works fine, because you earn it while doing what you used to do. It's not really a goal, but merely a side reward. Also, you usually have alternative to that, for casuals/alts, for example wait time vs points.
In STO, it takes WEEKS for a single spec point, if you do what you used to do (unless it was grinding patrol and doffing, then it's much better). I know this is my situation.
On the other hand, you have Argala, and it's 8K-10K xp per run.
So you have a choice. Either never have anything meaningful in the spec tree, and basically ignore the entire feature, or grind.
I think it's bad for a videogame to introduce a feature that is meant to be ignored by the large majority of players. But that's just me.
I don't know... my desultory style of play doesn't seem to be doing too badly for me.
While I'm not close to filling up any spec trees, I have progressed far enough in them to get some Fun Stuff. Like being able to barrel-roll a Recluse carrier, or get a flanking bonus on rear attacks (I sidle up all sneaky-like, apparently, in my 871-metre long ship, and stab people surreptitiously in the back with salvoes of Mk XIV plasma torpedoes), or making the Borg on Defera fall over just by running past them (dunno if that's due to the commando-tree Juggernaut thing, or just the smell of my toon's feet, though).
I'm reasonably happy just taking stuff as it comes. It may not be an optimized play style, but it's not bad for my blood pressure, either.
Is really why I don't play anymore due to the grind this or that as *new content* when its not really new content. Then you have the issue of them making it where you can't make heads or tails of what powers are anymore because they redid all of the icons which was not needed essentially because it doesn't really do anything more for the game its still buggy and glitchy and people will still see that even with these fancy looking icons that do not represent anything that the skill does.
Too much micro managing on part of the devs with this game that don't understand that its their job to do the micro managing not mine.
It's seems the average player is not intended to ever max out all specializations. Getting them is designed to take long enough that only obsessive grinders will finish them before more are added.
I turned off the XP bar completely, so as far as I'm concerned spec points just randomly pop up from time to time. The game's still not hard enough for me to go out of my way to grind for them.
Agree with warpangel, and, Cryptic already stated when this was rolled out, you are not supposed to max out in a month. It is all about keeping you in the game to have a long term goal to aim for.
If you feel you are being undeserved by this method, I do believe Cryptic to could come up a C-store option for you to directly purchase Spec points, so you can totally skip the grind. After all, if you are not willing to play the content and the game how Cryptic has set forth, by all means, you should be able to buy your way to the top.
It's seems the average player is not intended to ever max out all specializations. Getting them is designed to take long enough that only obsessive grinders will finish them before more are added.
I turned off the XP bar completely, so as far as I'm concerned spec points just randomly pop up from time to time. The game's still not hard enough for me to go out of my way to grind for them.
Obsessive grinders? Why is that? I usually haul in 1-2 specialization points a day.
And i haven't played either Argala nor Gerren more than 10 times since the introduction.
Play smart and have fun. Staying as far away from the lagging DR content is the first step.
This program, though reasonably normal at times, seems to have a strong affinity to classes belonging to the Cat 2.0 program. Questerius 2.7 will break down on occasion, resulting in garbage and nonsense messages whenever it occurs. Usually a hard reboot or pulling the plug solves the problem when that happens.
You never need to do Elite. You want to do Elite, for the challenge, if you like that sort of thing. If you like things easy you should play Normal instead.
The only Elite-exclusive reward in the game is Salvaged Technology, which is tradeable. So while someone needs to do Elite to get it, it doesn't have to be you. And then of course, you don't really need any ST either. You can do perfectly fine without it.
Yup. That is pretty much exactly how I feel. Though I suspect it's a completely foreign way of playing and thinking about the game to many posting on this thread.
You guys take things to the extremes. It takes about 20 Argala turn-ins to get 1 spec point. Argala is awrading 4x normal xp for time investment according to Geko.
20x4=80 runs
now it takes about 10 minutes to run it for the average player
That is your problem right there. Players who complain about length of grind refuse to improve.
There is no other way but improve your piloting and DPS because you kill faster and you move faster.
If you brought your ISA build, then that is the first mistake right there. Dlyrene is one of those useless DoFFs in patrol missions.
Argala normal gives you about 10K XP, advanced 12.5k+ XP, Elite 15k+XP without bonus XP. So without bonuses Argala normal should take about 15-16 runs.
If you account 20% Bonus thats 12K XP around 13 runs. If you account 2x bonus that is 20XP around 8 runs. If account 20% Bonus another 10% Bonus plus the 2xP, that is 26k XP, around 6 runs. Thats just Normal.
Running normal, advanced or elite is highly dependent on your dps, build and your piloting. Just like running between Garren and Argala becomes equal to time to finish once you achieve a certain level of DPS and speed of piloting positioning.
Going back to the issue of needing the max specializations, you dont need it. The bonuses that they give are very small. Nor they are needed to be competitive. I reached 100k DPS and finsihed HSE without maxing any Specializations. And I have no plans to max out specialization in my 100k+ Toon within the day. i get a specialization doing normal stuff around 1-2 per week.
There is a difference between need and want. And those who have been complaining about max specialization just want it but dont need it. So it is more of being spoiled and self entitled than anything else or if you want more of acceptable word to you, it is just luxury to have it.
Yes, but why do you really need (not "want", that's another thing, though they're often confused) to do elite? To get the rewards you need to... do elite?
You guys take things to the extremes. It takes about 20 Argala turn-ins to get 1 spec point. Argala is awrading 4x normal xp for time investment according to Geko.
20x4=80 runs
That math. According to this argala is awarding a 1/4th per run. If gecko said Argala is awarding FOUR TIMES MORE EXP then 20 runs would be cut down.
20/4= 5
I know it doesn't take 5 runs, but 80 runs for 1 SPEC POINT?
In fact, its still 20 runs REGARDLESS. The 4x exp thing was added BEFORE the 20 runs was the average.
Your calculations were correct at DR release, NOT currently
Kurland Here Kurland Here This is Kurland Kurland Kurland Here Kurland, Do you copy?
Argala takes 15 runs on normal. For me it takes between 2 minutes 30 secs and 3 minutes depending on which npcs spawn. If I really wanted to I could grind a spec point an hour.
I don't because I'm doing stfs for mats, or all the blasted event grinds.
Since the big exp Nerf post DR there have been almost constant events. I like the ships but they have delayed the game for me. Only so much time to play a day.
Before I sound like an entitled player...Completed all spec points prior to command. All reps completed long ago. All doff categories tier 4 and mostly purple doffs with the obvious exceptions of the white RD doffs.
I keep playing because I like STO. I do a lot of testing on tribble, wish listened more to the feedback.
People didn't stop playing when they got to 50 before, they won't stay because of the grind either.
I mostly play my engineer. He averages high 20k Dps but I don't parse. Just keep improving him and keep improving my game play. The others are long term projects.
I would like a bit of ease on required exp, but I look forward to dill being added to patrols more.
Comments
If there were more XP and skillpoints as rewards it would be less of a grind but more of a reward system, fair and fast for everyone. But afaik the specs were supposed to replace the skills (thaty why we cant use our skillpoints we get from Lvl 50 on) but it never took me 1-2 years to fill my skill tree so why 1-2 years for the specs?
Its too long in relation to Rep. systems, too long in relation to the skill tree, to other masteries...
IT should feel like a reward, also for casual players, not only for those who can already buy their way to the top. but with the current requirements its no reward, its a punishment because the progress is too slow
Let's take some endgame content pre and post DR.
STF : 2K xp, 75stf for a single spec point ->ridiculous
Battlezone : negligible amount of xp. Quests doesn't award xp at all for the Voth bz. No quests on the Undine one, and no real interests to play on the kobali once the main quests are over. Most of the xp comes from random quests anyway. Also, you either have ground xp (IE pretty much nothing), or the lvl50 space xp (IE nerfed).
Foundry : XP capped at a certain amount (xp and loot works together, by capping XP you cap the loot to).
Episode : replay is worth 2Kxp + kill, which is really low. A new episode is worth more (10K + kill I think), but let's face it, that's not something we have often enough to be noteworthy.
I played several games with parallel xp/progression or whatever you call it. And usually it works fine, because you earn it while doing what you used to do. It's not really a goal, but merely a side reward. Also, you usually have alternative to that, for casuals/alts, for example wait time vs points.
In STO, it takes WEEKS for a single spec point, if you do what you used to do (unless it was grinding patrol and doffing, then it's much better). I know this is my situation.
On the other hand, you have Argala, and it's 8K-10K xp per run.
So you have a choice. Either never have anything meaningful in the spec tree, and basically ignore the entire feature, or grind.
I think it's bad for a videogame to introduce a feature that is meant to be ignored by the large majority of players. But that's just me.
And, cap the number of points you can hold without application at 10 or possibly less.
But you know they're just going to nerf those two patrol missions and set everything else as the new "above baseline" before quietly nerfing everything else one bit of content at a time.
As far as we know, Cryptic sees the lower rewards as being the optimal setup.
Just because they paid lip service to the concept of making the grind less time consuming, does not mean they'll actually follow through.
More likely, some employee will spend the next few weeks developing some buffs to spec point gain, only to have Cryptic upper management or PWE lower management block the changes at the last minute.
The odds of them actually increasing the spec point gain across the entire game to double what Argala currently provides are miniscule.
Actually, it's intended that you accept that you'll never get more than 10-15 points.
I keep hearing this, but outside of references to a few exceptionally favorable parses, I see no evidence.
Dear wall, I know you and I have had our difficulties and I know I am compiling my sin by not posting this on Reddit, but we really need to talk ?
What do you mean Argala is over awarding ?
Do you mean that when you nerf Argala and maybe you adjust the specialization point earnings in the rest of the game, we will earn less points and advance slower then we do now @ Argala ???
... yeah, me thinks I had that convo before ...
A weeks worth of Doffing can get you a spec level. Running regular content gets you plenty experience, even some PVE's. Heck, you get a **** ton of exp. just blowing stuff up anywhere now.
Try Starbase 24 solo runs for example. 5-6 of those can get you a spec level, and 2-3 of them can master a starship completely. Not to mention COMPLETELY fill your inventory in a run and get the bonus very rare mk XII items for yourself and some dilithium to boot.
Or try blowing up Borg in Kerrat. When you hit level 60, the Kerrat Borg are now level 64 and give a ton of exp, and you get to fight off other players at the same time and actually learn how to play the game.
Nothing of that levels you as fast as Argala.
No, people who play the game differently than you aren't morons...
You prefer doffing and soloing starbase 24. Others apparently have more fun running argala than doing that. They're both valid ways to play. I tried running argala to try to masteryify my favorite ships and ended up partly finishing some on 1 character. Then I started running nukara and voth ground and even nimbus. A lot of people would probably balk at my preference for ground content over space content the same you you do at argala. I have fun anyway though.
If you really like grinding those spec points (and I know there are people who do), good for you go right ahead. But if you hate it, stop doing it instead of complaining here for months on end how the Evil Conspiracy forces you to and how the game is no fun. Nobody's forcing you to do it but you.
Game's easy, play what you like how you like it.
a = approximate number of argala runs to reach one point = 20
b = approximate time per run (minutes) = 10
c = time per point = b * a = 200
d = number of points to fill after lvl 60 = (90 - 10) = 80
total time to completion = c * d = 16,000 minutes = 266.7 hours = 11.1 days
Part time job = 20 hrs/week
266.7 / 20 = 13.3 weeks
Same reasons really. Those people live in another world entirely, they don't seem to be able to handle the truth about situations so instead of making things better they try their best to continue to parrot those compelling statements that have no logic or reasoning behind them but somehow sound good to these people. Despite years of evidence that grind doesn't make a game better it makes them worse, we still have people who aren't thinkers they are just puppets.
One, as others have noted, I'm more intent on grinding dil, EC, etc.
Two, I have been and remain very very reluctant (due to the lack of any respec option) to invest in/commit to any spec tree until more are revealed. I'm guessing there's going to be at least one more, going by the apparent pattern of Intel being a hybrid of Sci and Tac, and Command of Eng and Tac. "Logic" suggests that we'll be getting something like Eng/Sci, and possibly others if they can think of any.
Three, while you'd never know it from how much time I spend in the game, I'm a rather "casual" player. I run PvE on Normal and I PvP maybe once a month, only with fleeties, who I regularly have to ask for build advice. I'm a roleplayer and a storyteller/writer. I've been a Star Trek fan since TOS reruns and the Animated Series, back in the 70s, and I'm here for the theme, not to "beat" the game.
Four, I have a total of nine characters. While one of them is definitely my 'main', I play all of them at least semi-actively. Keeping them all decently (IMO) geared, usually with some degree of Rep grinding, is chore enough (and sometimes I've fallen behind, still IMO); grinding them all up to full Spec tree(s) would be a Sisyphean task. But I'm okay with that. As with the vast majority of the new ships that have been added to the C-store, there is almost nothing there that I cannot do without. I'm in no hurry.
I think that about covers it, for me.
Not really sure what you're on about, but fact is that story content can always be played endlessly faster than it can be written. So, every MMO will need to add a grind, for that reason alone.
There must also always be attainable goals (like the next rep gear, or new spec tree), lest ppl walk away.
For the amount of spec points needed to fully max out at the moment, they could easily set everything to double argala payout and that would still be plenty of grind, when piled on top of the rep system, the upgrade system, and the need to grind some resource to get lock box sourced items.
Yes, but why do you really need (not "want", that's another thing, though they're often confused) to do elite? To get the rewards you need to... do elite?
There's an old joke, almost as old as me, about making more money, so you can do more cocaine... so you can make more money... to do more coke...
This stuck me as very valid point. Without an alternative means no developer can hope to keep pace with the consumption of content. Most of Cryptic games have at least attempted to address this unavoidable deficit. The foundry in it's various incarnations attempts to place some creation of content into the hands of the community.
I like this. You can't get much more I.D.I.C. than this which is a great feature to have in any MMO particularly in one with a Star Trek theme. development time was earmarked for to improve the foundry tools; making them more versatile, accessible and provide some form of compensation for the effort that goes into making a good story it would make the game better. People squander hours playing a vacuous mini game because they see a reward. Why not provide an appropriate incentive to do some worthwhile and build a better game for everyone?
I do not grind for spec points. I simply play the game. In fact, I have never even used any of my spec points on any of my toons yet; the most I have is 23 on one of them. I have not felt the need to use those points yet.
Why is maxing out spec points such a grind? The answer is obvious... it is there so that players who wants to max out their toons will have something to do and they will need to log into the game to do it. The more you feel that you must max out all your toons, the more you impel yourself to play the game. If obtaining spec points was not such a grind, then players who quickly max out their toons will have less of a reason to play STO as much as they can. It is a mechanic that feeds off a player's ego / desire to have the best of the best. It seems to work very well 'cuz if people are grind then that means they are playing STO.
I will eventually max out my spec points and use them, but I will do it at my own pace...
The only Elite-exclusive reward in the game is Salvaged Technology, which is tradeable. So while someone needs to do Elite to get it, it doesn't have to be you. And then of course, you don't really need any ST either. You can do perfectly fine without it.
While I'm not close to filling up any spec trees, I have progressed far enough in them to get some Fun Stuff. Like being able to barrel-roll a Recluse carrier, or get a flanking bonus on rear attacks (I sidle up all sneaky-like, apparently, in my 871-metre long ship, and stab people surreptitiously in the back with salvoes of Mk XIV plasma torpedoes), or making the Borg on Defera fall over just by running past them (dunno if that's due to the commando-tree Juggernaut thing, or just the smell of my toon's feet, though).
I'm reasonably happy just taking stuff as it comes. It may not be an optimized play style, but it's not bad for my blood pressure, either.
Too much micro managing on part of the devs with this game that don't understand that its their job to do the micro managing not mine.
Agree with warpangel, and, Cryptic already stated when this was rolled out, you are not supposed to max out in a month. It is all about keeping you in the game to have a long term goal to aim for.
If you feel you are being undeserved by this method, I do believe Cryptic to could come up a C-store option for you to directly purchase Spec points, so you can totally skip the grind. After all, if you are not willing to play the content and the game how Cryptic has set forth, by all means, you should be able to buy your way to the top.
Become Pay 2 win over Grind 2 win.
Obsessive grinders? Why is that? I usually haul in 1-2 specialization points a day.
And i haven't played either Argala nor Gerren more than 10 times since the introduction.
Play smart and have fun. Staying as far away from the lagging DR content is the first step.
Yup. That is pretty much exactly how I feel. Though I suspect it's a completely foreign way of playing and thinking about the game to many posting on this thread.
That is your problem right there. Players who complain about length of grind refuse to improve.
There is no other way but improve your piloting and DPS because you kill faster and you move faster.
If you brought your ISA build, then that is the first mistake right there. Dlyrene is one of those useless DoFFs in patrol missions.
Argala normal gives you about 10K XP, advanced 12.5k+ XP, Elite 15k+XP without bonus XP. So without bonuses Argala normal should take about 15-16 runs.
If you account 20% Bonus thats 12K XP around 13 runs. If you account 2x bonus that is 20XP around 8 runs. If account 20% Bonus another 10% Bonus plus the 2xP, that is 26k XP, around 6 runs. Thats just Normal.
Running normal, advanced or elite is highly dependent on your dps, build and your piloting. Just like running between Garren and Argala becomes equal to time to finish once you achieve a certain level of DPS and speed of piloting positioning.
Going back to the issue of needing the max specializations, you dont need it. The bonuses that they give are very small. Nor they are needed to be competitive. I reached 100k DPS and finsihed HSE without maxing any Specializations. And I have no plans to max out specialization in my 100k+ Toon within the day. i get a specialization doing normal stuff around 1-2 per week.
There is a difference between need and want. And those who have been complaining about max specialization just want it but dont need it. So it is more of being spoiled and self entitled than anything else or if you want more of acceptable word to you, it is just luxury to have it.
I want someone to discuss how awesome the game would be if everyone would stop complaining and just let Cryptic do their thing.
That math. According to this argala is awarding a 1/4th per run. If gecko said Argala is awarding FOUR TIMES MORE EXP then 20 runs would be cut down.
20/4= 5
I know it doesn't take 5 runs, but 80 runs for 1 SPEC POINT?
In fact, its still 20 runs REGARDLESS. The 4x exp thing was added BEFORE the 20 runs was the average.
Your calculations were correct at DR release, NOT currently
I don't because I'm doing stfs for mats, or all the blasted event grinds.
Since the big exp Nerf post DR there have been almost constant events. I like the ships but they have delayed the game for me. Only so much time to play a day.
Before I sound like an entitled player...Completed all spec points prior to command. All reps completed long ago. All doff categories tier 4 and mostly purple doffs with the obvious exceptions of the white RD doffs.
I keep playing because I like STO. I do a lot of testing on tribble, wish listened more to the feedback.
People didn't stop playing when they got to 50 before, they won't stay because of the grind either.
I mostly play my engineer. He averages high 20k Dps but I don't parse. Just keep improving him and keep improving my game play. The others are long term projects.
I would like a bit of ease on required exp, but I look forward to dill being added to patrols more.