It's called "DPS RACING" because that's all you need. DPS, that's it, for PvE, all problems are addressed by DPS.
Trying that in PvP, gets you sent to the respawn point-because Players don't follow the script.
Take a 30k or 40k DPS FaW build into a PvP encounter, and you'll get a lot of kills. PvP is just a DPS race with different minimum requirements, for the very reasons you listed. Players don't follow the script, so you can't reliably crowd-control them, and when DPS racing is involved, you can't expect to reliably tank or out-heal them. What's left is "kill him before he kills me" - a DPS race.
PvP is just "who has the biggest guns?", nothing more.
it's still the same "Memorize pattern, determine optimum, repeat endlessly".
Most heavy queue runners and patrollers know exactly, probably within a tenth of a second, when the next spawn is coming, what it will be, and what it will do.
The 'evolution' you speak of is slapdash-at-best, assimilated bops with ten times the hull of a player cruiser isn't 'evolution', it's "God, how do we slow them down??" on the Developer end.
It's like super-mario, the whole game could be condensed into a single-player console right now, and 99% of the players (including DPS Elites) wouldn't know the difference.
It's like this:
Go into Infected Space, you know that if you x, then y is GOING TO HAPPEN.
there's no guess work involved, it happens EVERY TIME you do x, or someone does x.
difference being...
Borg Spheres and nanite spheres get caught in Gravity wells, it's a standard move, drop a doffed g-well on them to keep them away from the transformer.
players use things like "Attack pattern Omega", they use hazard emitters to clear plasma and get out of clouds, cleans-oh, right, that's the other thing.
NPC's don't get debuffed the way PLAYERS do. They don't buff, they don't de-buff, they follow the script.
It's called "DPS RACING" because that's all you need. DPS, that's it, for PvE, all problems are addressed by DPS.
Trying that in PvP, gets you sent to the respawn point-because Players don't follow the script.
Take a 30k or 40k DPS FaW build into a PvP encounter, and you'll get a lot of kills. PvP is just a DPS race with different minimum requirements, for the very reasons you listed. Players don't follow the script, so you can't reliably crowd-control them, and when DPS racing is involved, you can't expect to reliably tank or out-heal them. What's left is "kill him before he kills me" - a DPS race.
PvP is just "who has the biggest guns?", nothing more.
thats bs I tank all the time I don't do much dps and do well as a cruiser if that were true it would be all tacts in pvp and that's not the case
Please I have been asking this for a few years now and the only answer i get is "so you can do stf's faster the next time"
Is that the reason to buy a ship and gear it up? because there is nothing after 60 except spec point grinding and why grind spec points? so I can do stf's even faster?
Sad state of affairs
Don't feel so bad
There isn't any end game PvE either
Jellico....Engineer ground.....Da'val Romulan space Sci
Saphire.. Science ground......Ko'el Romulan space Tac
Leva........Tactical ground.....Koj Romulan space Eng
JJ-Verse will never be Canon or considered Lore...It will always be JJ-Verse
thats bs I tank all the time I dont do much dps and do well as a cruiser if that were true it would be all tact in pvp and that not the case
Well then you aren't terribly useful to your team. The moment the enemy figures out that you aren't a threat (because you're just a tank with no real teeth), then you get the worst possible treatment in a PvP encounter - you get ignored. You can't fight back, since you admit that you don't do much DPS, so your only purpose is to absorb damage. If that damage flies elsewhere because the INTELLIGENT players you're fighting against figured you out, then you're just taking up a player slot in your team that could have been used to help actually KILL the enemy players.
Even if it's just support healing. Ignore the healer...well you will have a harder time taking anyone else out near them.
Get two, maybe three ships to focus fire on any ship that isn't currently running RSP, and it won't matter whether there's a "healer" around or not - that target is going to die. Any PvP team that doesn't focus fire is quickly going to get picked off by the team that DOES focus fire...
Well then you aren't terribly useful to your team. The moment the enemy figures out that you aren't a threat (because you're just a tank with no real teeth), then you get the worst possible treatment in a PvP encounter - you get ignored. You can't fight back, since you admit that you don't do much DPS, so your only purpose is to absorb damage. If that damage flies elsewhere because the INTELLIGENT players you're fighting against figured you out, then you're just taking up a player slot in your team that could have been used to help actually KILL the enemy players.
Good job.
oh your so full of bs you know what happens in every pvp match you claim if you dont do much dps you cant fight lol you claim tanks are the worst treatment/have no teeth haha you tell me i cant fight back lmao can you tell me the winning lotto ticket # too oh and nobody want a sci or engi on their team?
how can anyone take you seriously
so if i change those things npc's will do different things? thats the point i was making same old npc doing the same old stuff
Yes, they will. Even with dumb and fixed scripting for actions, the actions are based on the current state of the map.
If you go into a Borg red alert without tac team, hazard emitters, polarize hull and FAW or CSV the alert will play out differently than if you do. It plays differently for an escort vs. cruiser vs. science vs. carrier. Cannons vs. beam arrays vs. dbb + turrets. Torps vs. no torps. Science builds vs. tactical.
That's the simplest of the group PVE, and doesn't even consider coping with whatever the other players bring to it.
I fly a BoP, I know I'm going to be respawning at some point...but I've killed more than my share of DPS-centric beamboat FAW builds in Arenas and Ker'rat...because I know how to manage my buffs and time my strikes on my Tac, how to apply de-buffs with my sci, and how to manage my energies with my engineer.
The "Nitemare" isn't a BFAW spamboat or Scimitard, it's a fed in a sci who knows what he's doing.
In scripted DPS-content, DPS is king, in PvP, Science Rules.
(among other things, "Subnuke" and "Sensor Scan".)
the guy has no idea what he is talking about and does not know the value of a sci or engi in a pvp match
Yes, they will. Even with dumb and fixed scripting for actions, the actions are based on the current state of the map.
If you go into a Borg red alert without tac team, hazard emitters, polarize hull and FAW or CSV the alert will play out differently than if you do. It plays differently for an escort vs. cruiser vs. science vs. carrier. Cannons vs. beam arrays vs. dbb + turrets. Torps vs. no torps. Science builds vs. tactical.
That's the simplest of the group PVE, and doesn't even consider coping with whatever the other players bring to it.
you claim if you dont do much dps you cant fight lol
That would be correct. *YOU* said crowd-controls aren't effective in PvP, so which is it? Can you do something to fight besides DPS or not? (Tanking isn't fighting, since you're doing nothing to hurt the enemy.)
Oh, I don't know. Maybe because I'm rationally and intelligently supporting my arguments, and not resorting to personal attacks, hyperbole, and other mockery?
or see if he 'gets' how to handle an opponent who chains TT/EPTS while running Omega.
Grab bag of science abilities. Subnuke and VM to strip buffs and increase cooldowns, sensor scan to increase vulnerability, tachyon beam to strip shields...
No, I merely offered my personal experience, which has been incredibly consistent.
That would be correct. *YOU* said crowd-controls aren't effective in PvP, so which is it? Can you do something to fight besides DPS or not? (Tanking isn't fighting, since you're doing nothing to hurt the enemy.)
Tank builds have to sacrifice DPS capability, so yes, they have no teeth. The game is remarkably well balanced in that regard.
No, you yourself claimed you don't do much DPS. See above for why that means you can't fight back...
Now you're just being stupid. Is that really the best argument you can form at this point?
I never once claimed that.
Oh, I don't know. Maybe because I'm rationally and intelligently supporting my arguments, and not resorting to personal attacks, hyperbole, and other mockery?
where did i ever say crowd control is not effective in pvp? mixed me up with someone? oh and "teeth" does not always have to equal dps there are other way to fight
I do agree though, that if you only fly one ship on one captain with one build, the PVE game will get stale much sooner than PVP will.
If you have (say) an Antriproton FAW cruiser and tac captain, and all you do is try to tweak that one build to perfection, then yes your experience in any given alert, STF, patrol or episode will change very little over time.
I suspect that's behind some of the rage-posting about the DR "grind" People working on one character, obsessed with earning spec points that don't really matter for having fun.
I have 8 alts (3 fed, 3 KDF, 2 rom) in different ships, different damage types, different weapon types and boff setups. I'll probably get bored with the existing PVE content eventually, but by then there will probably be new ships, new skills, new episodes.
where did i ever say crowd control is not effective in pvp? oh and "teeth" does not always have to equal dps there are other way to fight
My mistake, it was actually patrickngo. You merely quoted his post and didn't add anything meaningful. (You also didn't object, so I assume you agreed with his assessment.)
Borg Spheres and nanite spheres get caught in Gravity wells, it's a standard move, drop a doffed g-well on them to keep them away from the transformer.
players use things like "Attack pattern Omega", they use hazard emitters to clear plasma and get out of clouds, cleans-oh, right, that's the other thing.
NPC's don't get debuffed the way PLAYERS do. They don't buff, they don't de-buff, they follow the script.
You're in Ker'rat, in your DPS god-boat. You hear a "whhirrr!" sound mixed into the background (or maybe you don't, maybe you've got the muzak playing or something, but let's assume you're listening REAL hard to the whirr-klang of your Antiprotons and the exploding cubes)...
what is that sound, what does it mean, and what do you DO?
Your description is so incredibly vague (as is your laughable attempt at WRITING a SOUND that I cannot answer your question. Take that as a victory if you like, but the question is a poor one at best.
Second example...you're tooling around Ker'rat, and suddenly, you've got a purple clock-face and your abilities start acting funny. What is it, what does it mean, what do you do?
I already answered this. It's a subnuke, you use Science team...
My mistake, it was actually patrickngo. You merely quoted his post and didn't add anything meaningful. (You also didn't object, so I assume you agreed with his assessment.)
I'm still waiting for your meaningful post and since you didn't disagree with the OP I assume you agree
Ok! I like STO's PVP but as others I have seen there is a little change that happens when people go "FULL PVP", they get a little mean. I'm not going to say all pvpers act like that but speaking for myself and from what I seen of some pvpers it looks true.
Yes I know I could close the chat window/ignore everyone but then pvp just becomes pve with different set of npcs using the same old tactics.
So tldr version: I avoid pvp to keep my heart clean and save others of dealing with a thorny rose.
Comments
PvP is just "who has the biggest guns?", nothing more.
how people see it differently is mind boggling
thats bs I tank all the time I don't do much dps and do well as a cruiser if that were true it would be all tacts in pvp and that's not the case
Don't feel so bad
There isn't any end game PvE either
Saphire.. Science ground......Ko'el Romulan space Tac
Leva........Tactical ground.....Koj Romulan space Eng
JJ-Verse will never be Canon or considered Lore...It will always be JJ-Verse
Good job.
I have PvP'd. I find it boring and predictable, just like PvE. I perfer PvE because I don't have to deal with all the drama from other players.
If I want pvp I play Cod. At least it's balanced.
oh your so full of bs you know what happens in every pvp match you claim if you dont do much dps you cant fight lol you claim tanks are the worst treatment/have no teeth haha you tell me i cant fight back lmao can you tell me the winning lotto ticket # too oh and nobody want a sci or engi on their team?
how can anyone take you seriously
Yes, they will. Even with dumb and fixed scripting for actions, the actions are based on the current state of the map.
If you go into a Borg red alert without tac team, hazard emitters, polarize hull and FAW or CSV the alert will play out differently than if you do. It plays differently for an escort vs. cruiser vs. science vs. carrier. Cannons vs. beam arrays vs. dbb + turrets. Torps vs. no torps. Science builds vs. tactical.
That's the simplest of the group PVE, and doesn't even consider coping with whatever the other players bring to it.
the guy has no idea what he is talking about and does not know the value of a sci or engi in a pvp match
interesting I will have to check that out
That would be correct. *YOU* said crowd-controls aren't effective in PvP, so which is it? Can you do something to fight besides DPS or not? (Tanking isn't fighting, since you're doing nothing to hurt the enemy.)
Tank builds have to sacrifice DPS capability, so yes, they have no teeth. The game is remarkably well balanced in that regard.
No, you yourself claimed you don't do much DPS. See above for why that means you can't fight back...
Now you're just being stupid. Is that really the best argument you can form at this point?
I never once claimed that.
Oh, I don't know. Maybe because I'm rationally and intelligently supporting my arguments, and not resorting to personal attacks, hyperbole, and other mockery?
STO's not a PvP game.
STO's a treadmill game.
STO's the best treadmill ever and the hamsters love it.
Grab bag of science abilities. Subnuke and VM to strip buffs and increase cooldowns, sensor scan to increase vulnerability, tachyon beam to strip shields...
Is that really the best you can come up with?
where did i ever say crowd control is not effective in pvp? mixed me up with someone? oh and "teeth" does not always have to equal dps there are other way to fight
If you have (say) an Antriproton FAW cruiser and tac captain, and all you do is try to tweak that one build to perfection, then yes your experience in any given alert, STF, patrol or episode will change very little over time.
I suspect that's behind some of the rage-posting about the DR "grind" People working on one character, obsessed with earning spec points that don't really matter for having fun.
I have 8 alts (3 fed, 3 KDF, 2 rom) in different ships, different damage types, different weapon types and boff setups. I'll probably get bored with the existing PVE content eventually, but by then there will probably be new ships, new skills, new episodes.
My mistake, it was actually patrickngo. You merely quoted his post and didn't add anything meaningful. (You also didn't object, so I assume you agreed with his assessment.)
I already answered this. It's a subnuke, you use Science team...
I'm still waiting for your meaningful post and since you didn't disagree with the OP I assume you agree
do you hear yourself?
Yes I know I could close the chat window/ignore everyone but then pvp just becomes pve with different set of npcs using the same old tactics.
So tldr version: I avoid pvp to keep my heart clean and save others of dealing with a thorny rose.