try playing cure space advanced with a couple low dps people, it's crazy fun
That gets into different folks having fun in different ways sort of thing which really makes the whole discussion kind of massively complicated, eh?
I can have fun even while failing...if it was challenging and we as a group just weren't ready for it, I can still have fun. That's rarely the case though in STO, in my personal experience. Most failures are from having 2-4 people that aren't even doing half the DPS one would expect as required at a minimum for that level of content. So it wasn't a case of there possibly being a failure...the failure was guaranteed.
Some folks don't want any chance of failure and just want it over/done with as quick as possible. Meh, a 2 minute if that CCA isn't much fun for me. I really enjoyed CCA before it was nerfed into the ground. It was challenging, imho, at my level of play which wasn't very high.
But that fun thing is going to be different for different folks...not sure too many folks liked my capped idea in the other thread with the additional tiers while shuffling stuff around, heh.
A chance of failure for me can still be fun...Hell, that is the fun...the challenge.
Guaranteed failure right off the back...yeah, not so much. Too many players out there have fun guaranteeing failure, imho.
I can have fun even while failing...if it was challenging and we as a group just weren't ready for it, I can still have fun.
You know, funny story. I, along with 4 friends from Redditchat (3 others of whom are admittedly in dps-50k, which is why I even dared), decided to queue up for HSE, about 2 weeks ago or so. We went in, almost knowing we'd fail. We won, first try. I still don't know how.
About an hour later, we ran it again, but swapped out one guy for Sarcasmdetector (since Bagel was off for the night by then). We spent nearly an hour in 5 or 6 attempts (warp in, shoot at borg, see 1-2 minutes left on timer and 2-3 tactical cubes left), and warp out, strategize, and try again. Didn't make it, past that first attempt (having one of our sci captains suffer worsening and worsening DC's didn't help either), but I had a ton of fun the whole way.
SCM - Crystal C. (S) - [00:12] DMG(DPS) - @jarvisandalfred: 8.63M(713.16K) - Fed Sci
elitists have succeeded in whispering poison into dev ears. just as well i cant be bothered to run pve adv and elite since their upgrade a few months back. i mean running up such numbers implies there is a balance issue to have such a big variation in what the optimal dps number is.
Devs don't have ears,....the only interface they have with the outside world is a cash register....
Is that from the Normal queues being dead when you're primarily playing? Are you in a Fleet? Have you made any Friends while playing where some of those folks might be interested in it? Do those Battles guys run Normals? Might there be other folks facing the same issue that are on around the same time - tried hitting up the forums here looking for folks that play around that time that might be interested in running them?
Friends would help, but they would have to spend some time off of their grinding to help, or you could make life harder for them another way and join them in elite. It would be best to find peeps who also run the lower difficulties, or to find a trainer. These sorts of peeps are hard to find. I tried a few different chat channels... fleet, public elite stf, esd zone; fleet is dead, pestf doesn't care, nor does esd. Yes, I am with the wrong people, but how hard is it to find the right peeps?
Except "the scrubs." They aren't allowed to join a mission and have fun.
...?
If their fun means ruining fun of rest 4 people on map, than yes they shouldn't be allowed there. Imagine that you are on highway with speed limit 150 km/h but you stay in jam because every line there is some one riding 50 km/h and no way to go around them. Well they can go that slow, but should stay at roads with lower speed limits instead blocking others.
Freedom of one person ends there where starts freedom of another person. If you join group you work for groups 'fun'/success not your own.
If their fun means ruining fun of rest 4 people on map, than yes they shouldn't be allowed there. Imagine that you are on highway with speed limit 150 km/h but you stay in jam because every line there is some one riding 50 km/h and no way to go around them. Well they can go that slow, but should stay at roads with lower speed limits instead blocking others.
Freedom of one person ends there where starts freedom of another person. If you join group you work for groups 'fun'/success not your own.
You don't have to aim at DPS with your build and still get 7-8k without even trying.
Try to heal and shoot at the same time, all the time.
CLRInfected Space[6:58] Dmg(DPS)
One of Eight 12,372,979(29,886)
[REDACTED] 5,479,988(13,399)
[REDACTED] 3,673,487(8,830)
[REDACTED] 3,545,773(8,777)
[REDACTED] 1,817,382(4,465)
A recent ISA run. I stand by my thoughts that 10k should be the baseline for everyone to shoot for, but maybe 8k will do it if one player can handle all the heavy lifting. I wish Cryptic would give shipbuilding tutorials, since striking 8k should be child's play.
Sardak (Science Officer): Captain of a 23k DPS R'Mor Temporal Science Vessel, R.R.W. Vathos Odan Brota (Science Officer): Captain of a 28k DPS Scryer Intel Science Vessel, U.S.S. Kepler Patiently waiting for a Romulan Science Vessel
CLRInfected Space[6:58] Dmg(DPS)
One of Eight 12,372,979(29,886)
[REDACTED] 5,479,988(13,399)
[REDACTED] 3,673,487(8,830)
[REDACTED] 3,545,773(8,777)
[REDACTED] 1,817,382(4,465)
A recent ISA run. I stand by my thoughts that 10k should be the baseline for everyone to shoot for, but maybe 8k will do it if one player can handle all the heavy lifting. I wish Cryptic would give shipbuilding tutorials, since striking 8k should be child's play.
In in-game DPS reader would be good too. You know, not a mod...
I've yet to figure out what magic consoles I need to be l33t-approved in DPS. More than that, I can't tell you what my DPS actually is, because the Combat Log, as nice as it is, doesn't seem to dole out a steady DPS total for me -- it varies quite wildly.
In short, I no longer give a damn about aiming for high DPS. I haven't really at all anyway, but I gave it a confused shot. I'll pug if I well please to, and if you don't like the lower DPS company? There's channels for that. Have fun there.
I've yet to figure out what magic consoles I need to be l33t-approved in DPS. More than that, I can't tell you what my DPS actually is, because the Combat Log, as nice as it is, doesn't seem to dole out a steady DPS total for me -- it varies quite wildly.
In short, I no longer give a damn about aiming for high DPS. I haven't really at all anyway, but I gave it a confused shot. I'll pug if I well please to, and if you don't like the lower DPS company? There's channels for that. Have fun there.
I second this sentiment.
I do want to run advanced STFs and I do fail. A LOT. In fact, I havent successfully finished one yet. Not necessarily though any fault of my own my tac offer shreds dps and I know what to do my eng officer doe sless DPS but holds her own and has a few, limited CC options available.
I will tweak the heck outta my Sci officer when they are closer to 60 and be a CC machine..
Even then, I will still be in failed STFs when I pug and even when I dont. It happens. Im not going to break my back trying to maximize my persona DPS when A: I am comfortable where I am and B: it wont stop the failboat
First time I ever ran Viscous Cycle was in, what at the time was, elite. I was clueless, I was dragging the team a bit. How dare I go into elite first? Well, not like I could do normal first, because is dead (and the real "reporting error" is in what Geko said).
CLR—Infected Space[6:58]— Dmg(DPS) —
One of Eight 12,372,979(29,886)
[REDACTED] 5,479,988(13,399)
[REDACTED] 3,673,487(8,830)
[REDACTED] 3,545,773(8,777)
[REDACTED] 1,817,382(4,465)
A recent ISA run. I stand by my thoughts that 10k should be the baseline for everyone to shoot for, but maybe 8k will do it if one player can handle all the heavy lifting. I wish Cryptic would give shipbuilding tutorials, since striking 8k should be child's play.
LOL that was positively awesome compared to the group I had last night!
CLR—Infected Space[15:30]— Dmg(DPS) —
ME————- 17,314,224(18,658)
[REDACTED] 6,038,576(6,695)
[REDACTED] 3,667,116(3,947)
[REDACTED] 3,306,575(3,555)
[REDACTED] 886,830(3,758) - Left after first Transformer
A lot of this could be avoided with a gear score that allows people to see how much damage they can potentially put out.
I looked at the gear for all of them, they were all running skittle boats with one exception. He should have been doing twice the damage he did, but failed for whatever reason.
The sad thing is, it's not hard to work out the problems. Basics like stick to one type of damage and buff the hell out of it. Use ship/weapon appropriate gear, I don't mind if you are a CC boat as long as the other DPS guys can make up the shortfall. When I see a ship with Cannons, Torps, Beams and Mines on it that's apparently setup for DPS I really do facepalm...
In in-game DPS reader would be good too. You know, not a mod...
CLR is used by the Dev's themselves. It's only a parser for the game generated combatlog. It does have limits but they are mostly the games limits, like if you move out of range of the team from a Combatlog point of view it doesn't register their damage correctly. Hence ISA is usually used as the baseline for testing as it keeps everyone close.
Chris Robert's on SC:
"You don't have to do something again and again and again repetitive that doesn't have much challange, that's just a general good gameplay thing."
OI have a t6 intel ship, heavily built, everything is mk XII+ and most items are Elite Fleet or reputation, i dont even break 7.5k
What if I said, I actually liked Delta Rising
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perhaps the proper fix would be to cap dps so you cant get such high numbers..
this way when you join a pug you have to actually talk to the others to see what they are doing instead of running off on your own and hope they know what they are doing on their side.
[12:35] Vessel Two of Two Unimatrix 01 deals 225232 (271723) Plasma Damage to you with Plasma Lance.
[12:44] Vessel One of Two Unimatrix 01 deals 1019527 (1157678) Kinetic Damage to you with Plasma Energy Bolt Explosion.
I'm just not seeing it. I follow these threads. I copy the builds. I copy the skillsets. I keep my nose on the target and not waste shots. I see numbers scrolling everywhere and I get to the end and look... 9k dps.
I have spent a ton of dilithium upgrading this console and that weapon because they do this, that, or something else and will let you get 20k dps mashing buttons with your nose. I have spent millions upon millions of EC on gear to upgrade to get to epic and pray for the stat lottery gods to smile upon me - all the while dumping truckloads of Dil into the system. Then I go out and I see 480 dps gained. 480!
I guess I am not using the right ship and need to spend $1000 on lockboxes to get that perfect Lobi setup. Well, not happening. The world is just going to have to deal with my 9k dps. I am done chasing that rat in the unending rat race.
Mad? No. Clueless? I guess so. It seems so. The numbers say so. Determined? Not any more. Paint me in scrub paint. I'm done throwing time and resources at it.
Because if this is about DPS, it's very likely that since you were solo, you only recorded your own DPS and didn't record any of theirs on the other side of the map.
Them letting probes by, however, is a different matter entirely.
I will share this from another thread. Toss me in the trash for being a scrub, I don't care any more.
ISA is the standard measure. My ships break 25k easily on ISA, in other situations they may not. Another factor of dps is how long it takes you to run ISE. Sub 5:00 is ideal for parsing. Additional time results in lower DPS. This is why having a single high dps player boosts the dps of everyone in the group. My ships do much lower if the rest of the group has TRIBBLE dps, and I'm soloing the enemies.
If I do 10 damage total, and it takes 1 second, thats 10 dps. 2 seconds, that's 5 dps. Etc. I wish cryptic would give us a target to measure and beat on, but that doesn't exist. A testing range with a single 100,000,000 hp target with 65 resist across the board that just sits there is my wet dream.
Sardak (Science Officer): Captain of a 23k DPS R'Mor Temporal Science Vessel, R.R.W. Vathos Odan Brota (Science Officer): Captain of a 28k DPS Scryer Intel Science Vessel, U.S.S. Kepler Patiently waiting for a Romulan Science Vessel
Because if this is about DPS, it's very likely that since you were solo, you only recorded your own DPS and didn't record any of theirs on the other side of the map.
This I know. However, there are some in the 12-20K range that demand if you aren't pulling their number you have no right in playing the game, sadly.
Then they're morons. I usually don't care what DPS you make unless you really contribute something else for team. Unfortunately most of those doing less then <7k don't provide any other support for the team, no heal, no tanking, no CC.
First time I ever ran Viscous Cycle was in, what at the time was, elite. I was clueless, I was dragging the team a bit. How dare I go into elite first? Well, not like I could do normal first, because is dead (and the real "reporting error" is in what Geko said).
Well it's more like 'broken circle' (not sure if this proper English idiom). You chose to go for elite because there isn't any one on normal, so another person who want go for normal also want see any one in the queue. All want to have a team for mission but no one willing to create it, everyone waits for someone else to do it.
In Cure and Khitomer you can't parse people on the other sides, it won't register some of their damage. Oddly some damage seems to register farther away than others, but thats just the eternal bugginess of STO.
ISA is the standard measure. My ships break 25k easily on ISA, in other situations they may not. Another factor of dps is how long it takes you to run ISE. Sub 5:00 is ideal for parsing. Additional time results in lower DPS. This is why having a single high dps player boosts the dps of everyone in the group. My ships do much lower if the rest of the group has TRIBBLE dps, and I'm soloing the enemies.
If I do 10 damage total, and it takes 1 second, thats 10 dps. 2 seconds, that's 5 dps. Etc. I wish cryptic would give us a target to measure and beat on, but that doesn't exist. A testing range with a single 100,000,000 hp target with 65 resist across the board that just sits there is my wet dream.
That's why the only viable way of parsing, in my opinion, is Starbase 234 as you spent this mission solo against a single target (plus three friagte-type enemies and a cruiser). ISA parses are pushed through team effort, SB234 will only parse your individual performance over a fixed amount of time, since the mission ends after ten minutes or if you beat the starbase before that, and that does take a lot of damage dealing.
^ Memory Alpha.org is not canon. It's a open wiki with arbitrary rules. Only what can be cited from an episode is. ^
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"That pig smelled horrid. A sweet-sour, extremely pungent odor. I showered and showered, and it took me a week to get rid of it!" - Robert Justman, appreciating Emmy-Lou
In Cure and Khitomer you can't parse people on the other sides, it won't register some of their damage. Oddly some damage seems to register farther away than others, but thats just the eternal bugginess of STO.
Could it be tied to overall perception of the player doing the damage? Along the lines of how far you can see a Scimitar vs. how far you can see say a Hirogen Hunter?
'Nice' to see the elitist attitude make a comeback :rolleyes:
As someone who plays a Sci Captain using a Sci ship (usually either Pathfinder or T5-U Rhode Island) I will say that I don't give a TRIBBLE about what DPS I produce.
That said, my Aux levels are high, I'm pretty good at Crowd-Control and debuff, and I daresay that my team-mates have appreciated (whether they said so or not) my well-placed GWIII + Gravimetric TSIII during those instances where the spheres would have otherwise reached the generator, resulting in fail.
Ironically, whilst there are things I disilike about DR, the changes made to ISA isn't one of them - unremarkable DPS or not, I actually feel useful when doing ISA now, and definitely prefer it to the stupid instances, not long before DR launched, where some BFAW Aux2Batt Scimitar simply vaped everything in sight and the instance was completed in one minute 50 seconds.
As a sci captain using a tac ship I need to say: You qualify for bronze.
Comments
That gets into different folks having fun in different ways sort of thing which really makes the whole discussion kind of massively complicated, eh?
I can have fun even while failing...if it was challenging and we as a group just weren't ready for it, I can still have fun. That's rarely the case though in STO, in my personal experience. Most failures are from having 2-4 people that aren't even doing half the DPS one would expect as required at a minimum for that level of content. So it wasn't a case of there possibly being a failure...the failure was guaranteed.
Some folks don't want any chance of failure and just want it over/done with as quick as possible. Meh, a 2 minute if that CCA isn't much fun for me. I really enjoyed CCA before it was nerfed into the ground. It was challenging, imho, at my level of play which wasn't very high.
But that fun thing is going to be different for different folks...not sure too many folks liked my capped idea in the other thread with the additional tiers while shuffling stuff around, heh.
A chance of failure for me can still be fun...Hell, that is the fun...the challenge.
Guaranteed failure right off the back...yeah, not so much. Too many players out there have fun guaranteeing failure, imho.
You know, funny story. I, along with 4 friends from Redditchat (3 others of whom are admittedly in dps-50k, which is why I even dared), decided to queue up for HSE, about 2 weeks ago or so. We went in, almost knowing we'd fail. We won, first try. I still don't know how.
About an hour later, we ran it again, but swapped out one guy for Sarcasmdetector (since Bagel was off for the night by then). We spent nearly an hour in 5 or 6 attempts (warp in, shoot at borg, see 1-2 minutes left on timer and 2-3 tactical cubes left), and warp out, strategize, and try again. Didn't make it, past that first attempt (having one of our sci captains suffer worsening and worsening DC's didn't help either), but I had a ton of fun the whole way.
SCM - Hive (S) - [02:31] DMG(DPS) - @jarvisandalfred: 30.62M(204.66K) - Fed Sci
Tacs are overrated.
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Devs don't have ears,....the only interface they have with the outside world is a cash register....
"I'm sarcasm's alt account, created to avoid dps. That's why I fly tanks. Then the above happened. Oops."
Sigh...compromise
Friends would help, but they would have to spend some time off of their grinding to help, or you could make life harder for them another way and join them in elite. It would be best to find peeps who also run the lower difficulties, or to find a trainer. These sorts of peeps are hard to find. I tried a few different chat channels... fleet, public elite stf, esd zone; fleet is dead, pestf doesn't care, nor does esd. Yes, I am with the wrong people, but how hard is it to find the right peeps?
Defending The Galaxy By Breaking One Starfleet Regulation After The Next.
If their fun means ruining fun of rest 4 people on map, than yes they shouldn't be allowed there. Imagine that you are on highway with speed limit 150 km/h but you stay in jam because every line there is some one riding 50 km/h and no way to go around them. Well they can go that slow, but should stay at roads with lower speed limits instead blocking others.
Freedom of one person ends there where starts freedom of another person. If you join group you work for groups 'fun'/success not your own.
You don't have to aim at DPS with your build and still get 7-8k without even trying.
Try to heal and shoot at the same time, all the time.
This I know. However, there are some in the 12-20K range that demand if you aren't pulling their number you have no right in playing the game, sadly.
One of Eight 12,372,979(29,886)
[REDACTED] 5,479,988(13,399)
[REDACTED] 3,673,487(8,830)
[REDACTED] 3,545,773(8,777)
[REDACTED] 1,817,382(4,465)
A recent ISA run. I stand by my thoughts that 10k should be the baseline for everyone to shoot for, but maybe 8k will do it if one player can handle all the heavy lifting. I wish Cryptic would give shipbuilding tutorials, since striking 8k should be child's play.
Odan Brota (Science Officer): Captain of a 28k DPS Scryer Intel Science Vessel, U.S.S. Kepler
Patiently waiting for a Romulan Science Vessel
In in-game DPS reader would be good too. You know, not a mod...
In short, I no longer give a damn about aiming for high DPS. I haven't really at all anyway, but I gave it a confused shot. I'll pug if I well please to, and if you don't like the lower DPS company? There's channels for that. Have fun there.
I second this sentiment.
I do want to run advanced STFs and I do fail. A LOT. In fact, I havent successfully finished one yet. Not necessarily though any fault of my own my tac offer shreds dps and I know what to do my eng officer doe sless DPS but holds her own and has a few, limited CC options available.
I will tweak the heck outta my Sci officer when they are closer to 60 and be a CC machine..
Even then, I will still be in failed STFs when I pug and even when I dont. It happens. Im not going to break my back trying to maximize my persona DPS when A: I am comfortable where I am and B: it wont stop the failboat
Just relax and enjoy the game
LOL that was positively awesome compared to the group I had last night!
CLR—Infected Space[15:30]— Dmg(DPS) —
ME————- 17,314,224(18,658)
[REDACTED] 6,038,576(6,695)
[REDACTED] 3,667,116(3,947)
[REDACTED] 3,306,575(3,555)
[REDACTED] 886,830(3,758) - Left after first Transformer
A lot of this could be avoided with a gear score that allows people to see how much damage they can potentially put out.
I looked at the gear for all of them, they were all running skittle boats with one exception. He should have been doing twice the damage he did, but failed for whatever reason.
The sad thing is, it's not hard to work out the problems. Basics like stick to one type of damage and buff the hell out of it. Use ship/weapon appropriate gear, I don't mind if you are a CC boat as long as the other DPS guys can make up the shortfall. When I see a ship with Cannons, Torps, Beams and Mines on it that's apparently setup for DPS I really do facepalm...
CLR is used by the Dev's themselves. It's only a parser for the game generated combatlog. It does have limits but they are mostly the games limits, like if you move out of range of the team from a Combatlog point of view it doesn't register their damage correctly. Hence ISA is usually used as the baseline for testing as it keeps everyone close.
"You don't have to do something again and again and again repetitive that doesn't have much challange, that's just a general good gameplay thing."
Either this peep had trouble, or he was thinking "ffff, these peeps aren't good enough", or something entirely different...
*lough* reading this thread wasn't wasted time after all, and just because of this one sentence
Let me aks something:
Why did every Star Trek Captain forgot to mention, that their ships main task was to reach a certain DPS level?
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this way when you join a pug you have to actually talk to the others to see what they are doing instead of running off on your own and hope they know what they are doing on their side.
[12:44] Vessel One of Two Unimatrix 01 deals 1019527 (1157678) Kinetic Damage to you with Plasma Energy Bolt Explosion.
Because if this is about DPS, it's very likely that since you were solo, you only recorded your own DPS and didn't record any of theirs on the other side of the map.
Them letting probes by, however, is a different matter entirely.
ISA is the standard measure. My ships break 25k easily on ISA, in other situations they may not. Another factor of dps is how long it takes you to run ISE. Sub 5:00 is ideal for parsing. Additional time results in lower DPS. This is why having a single high dps player boosts the dps of everyone in the group. My ships do much lower if the rest of the group has TRIBBLE dps, and I'm soloing the enemies.
If I do 10 damage total, and it takes 1 second, thats 10 dps. 2 seconds, that's 5 dps. Etc. I wish cryptic would give us a target to measure and beat on, but that doesn't exist. A testing range with a single 100,000,000 hp target with 65 resist across the board that just sits there is my wet dream.
Odan Brota (Science Officer): Captain of a 28k DPS Scryer Intel Science Vessel, U.S.S. Kepler
Patiently waiting for a Romulan Science Vessel
It's near enough 50k as far as I can tell.
This is my main cause of pug hatred atm, though.
Well it's more like 'broken circle' (not sure if this proper English idiom). You chose to go for elite because there isn't any one on normal, so another person who want go for normal also want see any one in the queue. All want to have a team for mission but no one willing to create it, everyone waits for someone else to do it.
Mark and rarity gives you only ~20-25% of success, rest came from how those items co-work with each other and with yours/boffs skills.
In Cure and Khitomer you can't parse people on the other sides, it won't register some of their damage. Oddly some damage seems to register farther away than others, but thats just the eternal bugginess of STO.
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That's why the only viable way of parsing, in my opinion, is Starbase 234 as you spent this mission solo against a single target (plus three friagte-type enemies and a cruiser). ISA parses are pushed through team effort, SB234 will only parse your individual performance over a fixed amount of time, since the mission ends after ten minutes or if you beat the starbase before that, and that does take a lot of damage dealing.
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Could it be tied to overall perception of the player doing the damage? Along the lines of how far you can see a Scimitar vs. how far you can see say a Hirogen Hunter?
As a sci captain using a tac ship I need to say: You qualify for bronze.
+1 for rankings.