ok i understand this .. Think about this whats the point of posting something when its a game not real life people just want to have fun enjoy the game rather then say oh i like this side better then the other.. Who cares really?
Well, there are a few people who love the Romulan Star Empire, for whatever reason, and want to play as bad guys. They like to talk about what a horrible betrayal of "true Romulans" the Republic is, and there are those of us who think that that is ridiculous, and don't like the Romulans being portrayed as villians, because they aren't, and we have arguments. That's about the size of it.
For Catoblepas:
1. Pre-LoR doesn't really matter anymore, to be honest. That was retconned when we all gained the ability to play as Romulan. The Pre-LOR story now matters about as much as the original Star Wars EU stuff matters to Star Wars discussions now. It's no longer canon.
2. She was still scared. This is exactly how people in police states act, especially if they've grown up or lived under it for a while. They are wary. They try to avoid the attention of the authorities. If they do attract attention, they try to fawn and be a good a citizen as they can, to get them to move on and leave them alone. ANd of course she isn't a Unificationist. But that doesn't mean she hates them, or Vulcans for that matter. I'd say that like most people, she just wants to live and let live.
A, that never happened. I do recall Remans pirating Mining Guild ships prior to Hobus (Star Trek: Countdown), but that's a different situation.
B, Obisek is not the leader of the entire Reman people. He is the leader of a particular resistance movement and the de facto leader of the Republic-affiliated Remans, and before that was simply a planetary militia commander who was living quite happily on Crateris until the Tal Shiar f*cked that up like they f*ck up everything else they touch. What other members of his species do is not on him.
In fairness to everyone who thinks that the city consists of an embassy, the military headquarters, and a bunch of tents, that's all we're actually allowed to visit since Cryptic did half a job and called it good.
The refugees in the episode where you enter the vault with a shuttle mention Remans hunting them. This is during a period when Obisek was in control of the vault.
He says he'll let them stay, but considering his track record with Thalaron weapons, and the fact he doesn't do anything about the refugees until you bring it to his attention...Obisek is a complicated fellow.
Well, there are a few people who love the Romulan Star Empire, for whatever reason, and want to play as bad guys. They like to talk about what a horrible betrayal of "true Romulans" the Republic is, and there are those of us who think that that is ridiculous, and don't like the Romulans being portrayed as villians, because they aren't, and we have arguments. That's about the size of it.
For Catoblepas:
1. Pre-LoR doesn't really matter anymore, to be honest. That was retconned when we all gained the ability to play as Romulan. The Pre-LOR story now matters about as much as the original Star Wars EU stuff matters to Star Wars discussions now. It's no longer canon.
2. She was still scared. This is exactly how people in police states act, especially if they've grown up or lived under it for a while. They are wary. They try to avoid the attention of the authorities. If they do attract attention, they try to fawn and be a good a citizen as they can, to get them to move on and leave them alone. ANd of course she isn't a Unificationist. But that doesn't mean she hates them, or Vulcans for that matter. I'd say that like most people, she just wants to live and let live.
1. Right, and that's the criticism, it was a complete 180 on what was in STO before LoR. Not to mention the shows.
2. She doesn't act afraid. She was wary, gossipy, and opportunistic, but not afraid, certainly not 'wetting pants'
As has been said 'afore, it's only a 180 from the shows if your Star Trek started in 1987. Mine started 31 years earlier, despite being born a few years after that. The Romulan as they were originally intened are closer to the Republic then the Empire seen in the later shows.
P.S. Wetting your pants is a euphemism. It wasn;t meant literally. I was saying that she was scared of them.
As has been said 'afore, it's only a 180 from the shows if your Star Trek started in 1987. Mine started 31 years earlier, despite being born a few years after that. The Romulan as they were originally intened are closer to the Republic then the Empire seen in the later shows.
P.S. Wetting your pants is a euphemism. It wasn;t meant literally. I was saying that she was scared of them.
And it's only Not a 180 if you forget everything else that happened with the Romulans between those two episodes and Legacy of Romulus. Again, even in STO they were using the TNG-style Romulans (or at least a loose caricature of them)until LOR came around and they felt the need to retcon these Republic types into existence. There just wasn't much of a precedent in place for them to suddenly leap to the forefront after all these years.
Romulans have 'been intended' to be something completely different for the vast majority of their appearances on screen, they even made the predecessors to the TOS Romulans look and act like the TNG-onwards Romulans on ENT. So I don't think that the argument that the TOS Romulans are the 'True' representatives of Romulan behavior and culture is really supported by the long record of Romulan depictions on Trek.
I'm aware you were using it as a euphemism. I just don't agree that the degree of discomfort she exhibited warrants that description though. She's gossipy and readily pries into (apparent) Tal Shiar affairs and even calls them out to their faces over their flimsy disguises. Then she brown-noses to them by giving them free food. Not exactly what I'd call 'pant-wetting' behavior.
And it's only Not a 180 if you forget everything else that happened with the Romulans between those two episodes and Legacy of Romulus. Again, even in STO they were using the TNG-style Romulans (or at least a loose caricature of them)until LOR came around and they felt the need to retcon these Republic types into existence. There just wasn't much of a precedent in place for them to suddenly leap to the forefront after all these years.
Romulans have 'been intended' to be something completely different for the vast majority of their appearances on screen, they even made the predecessors to the TOS Romulans look and act like the TNG-onwards Romulans on ENT. So I don't think that the argument that the TOS Romulans are the 'True' representatives of Romulan behavior and culture is really supported by the long record of Romulan depictions on Trek.
I'm aware you were using it as a euphemism. I just don't agree that the degree of discomfort she exhibited warrants that description though. She's gossipy and readily pries into (apparent) Tal Shiar affairs and even calls them out to their faces over their flimsy disguises. Then she brown-noses to them by giving them free food. Not exactly what I'd call 'pant-wetting' behavior.
To be fair, the only Romulans who showed up in Enterprise were intelligence types anyway. They had no characterization beyond that they were running an intelligence operation against the Vulcans, Humans, etc. Something that Section 31 did in the same series.
And....I think it's official now. We've lost track of the original topic.
Well to be fair, we don't exactly get much of what constitutes 'normal' Romulan behavior outside of the military.
We know they have their dissident movements-Toreth's father and also the reunificationists.
We know they euthanize 'defective' children. blind children would not be allowed to reach adulthood, for instance.
As a society they are characterized as being conservative, xenophobic and heavily militarized. Most of the Romulans we see have a strong sense of duty to the state and know how to keep a grudge. Many have no qualms about using deception or other underhanded actions to get what they want.
We know that the Romulan government has considered the Federation and the Klingon Empire to be mortal enemies and direct threats to their interest in the past, to the point that suggestions that Klingons be confined to zoos and the goal of making humans extinct as a species are not generally eyebrow-raising concepts in Romulan society.
Most, but not all Romulans from the shows hold true to these sorts of traits, and while it is true that most of the Romulans we see on the show are military, nothing that we see in the shows indicates that there civilian population is of significantly different demeanor. Some would fit in rather well with the members of the Republic we see I think...Jarok, the reunificationists, etc...but most would not: Sela, Tomalak, Letant...most of the military, etc.
This is why I would like t osee some reconciliation between the two nations and perhaps some better representation of the typical TNG-onwards Romulan.
As for joining the Star Empire (the original topic) I don't think there really are any good reasons to join the Star Empire any more. I suppose one might join for the protection that being part of a bigger whole would bring-to avoid being taken advantage of by Ferengi or raided by Nausicaan, Orion, Reman or Klingon pirates....but since LoR the RSE has been portrayed as the exact opposite...instead of Sela supposedly using nonviolent means to entice colonies back into the fold, we have them exterminating whole colonies.
Another reason I could have seen would have been the goal of rebuilding the empire. I can see a lot of patriotic Romulans being interested in that. But again, LoR (and in particular the newer episodes on Tribble) hammer one over the head with the fact that no civilian will willingly work for the Star Empire there is always some sort of situation where every civilian only works for them out of coercion- holding one's family hostage or other threats of violence.
So while there are conceivable reasons to work for the Star Empire, Cryptic has gone out of their way to remove them...so in its present state I cannot conceive of a reason to work for them (willingly). perhaps an agreeable solution to the Republic-Star Empire war will present itself when the storyline gets around to solving the Sela problem, but I doubt it.
The refugees in the episode where you enter the vault with a shuttle mention Remans hunting them. This is during a period when Obisek was in control of the vault.
He says he'll let them stay, but considering his track record with Thalaron weapons, and the fact he doesn't do anything about the refugees until you bring it to his attention...Obisek is a complicated fellow.
Except he is not in control of the vault (yet). That's why he is sneaking inside, and have fun about you doing pretty much the same than him. He freely admit that in one of the conversation :
"Never rely on the noble intentions of spies and thieves, Captain, and both of us are either one or the other" that's one of his answer. And since he call you "little spy" in this mission and in frozen, well, that makes him the thief.
The Reman hunting the refugees are the one guarding the station. Before the revamp, when the episodes where done, you could see a lot of Reman working with Hakeev. Both in the Hobus system, or part of Taris bodyguards. The one guarding the Vault seems to be the same faction. They are obviously not related to Obisek.
Obisek never said he hated Romulan. he says all along he'll do anything to free his people, even using Thalaron weapons.
And since later he join D'Tan, and works with him, following his orders, it seems he doesn't hate all the Romulan. Only the Tal Shiar.
We know they euthanize 'defective' children. blind children would not be allowed to reach adulthood, for instance..
Everyone saw that and thought how cruel they were. But first, you had the situation. The Romulan was trying to hurt Geordi, we don't even know if that was true.
Also, in many of our society, when a wife is pregnant, and the future child have a terrible genetic disease he will have all his life, you can abort. That's quite commonplace, a lot of people abort to avoid their child to be affected by bad stuff like down syndrome. Pretty sure the Romulan doesn't wait for the pregnancy to comes to an end, and kill the baby, they probably abort. It makes a lot more sense.
Now, I'm not entering a debate about abortion being barbaric or not. I'm just saying it's legal in most countries. Especially in the case were the child is affected by an incurable disease for all his life to come, and will be a burden for his family and the society. Not to mention he will likely suffer from it.
As for the RSE, it dies the day the Hobus Supernova destroyed the Homeworld. Probably even before when Shinzon killed the Senate, and placed the RSE in political turmoil for the next decades.
The RSE we have since then is nothing more than the self designed empire of a bunch of power hungry warlords.
It's just a name. Like the Holy Roman Empire in the middle age had nothing to do with the Roman Empire. They just took the name to make it more prestigious.
The name lost its meaning decades ago.
erai1 I have to disagree with your point on Obisek and the Remans on the Vault. Obisek orders them to kill you and then they attempt to kill you; I would say that is proof enough that they work for him.
Tolmarius The only non-Government Romulans we see in the shows besides the Re-unificationists are the soup lady and assorted passerbies with no lines so most of the information we would be getting would always be military types.
As for the topic, most Imperialists want a Romulan Star Empire not the Romulan Star Empire from the game.
erai1 I have to disagree with your point on Obisek and the Remans on the Vault. Obisek orders them to kill you and then they attempt to kill you; I would say that is proof enough that they work for him.
False. Obisek orders his followers to kill you. As previously stated, Obisek is not the leader of the entire species.
"Great War! / And I cannot take more! / Great tour! / I keep on marching on / I play the great score / There will be no encore / Great War! / The War to End All Wars"
— Sabaton, "Great War"
Comments
Well, there are a few people who love the Romulan Star Empire, for whatever reason, and want to play as bad guys. They like to talk about what a horrible betrayal of "true Romulans" the Republic is, and there are those of us who think that that is ridiculous, and don't like the Romulans being portrayed as villians, because they aren't, and we have arguments. That's about the size of it.
For Catoblepas:
1. Pre-LoR doesn't really matter anymore, to be honest. That was retconned when we all gained the ability to play as Romulan. The Pre-LOR story now matters about as much as the original Star Wars EU stuff matters to Star Wars discussions now. It's no longer canon.
2. She was still scared. This is exactly how people in police states act, especially if they've grown up or lived under it for a while. They are wary. They try to avoid the attention of the authorities. If they do attract attention, they try to fawn and be a good a citizen as they can, to get them to move on and leave them alone. ANd of course she isn't a Unificationist. But that doesn't mean she hates them, or Vulcans for that matter. I'd say that like most people, she just wants to live and let live.
The refugees in the episode where you enter the vault with a shuttle mention Remans hunting them. This is during a period when Obisek was in control of the vault.
He says he'll let them stay, but considering his track record with Thalaron weapons, and the fact he doesn't do anything about the refugees until you bring it to his attention...Obisek is a complicated fellow.
1. Right, and that's the criticism, it was a complete 180 on what was in STO before LoR. Not to mention the shows.
2. She doesn't act afraid. She was wary, gossipy, and opportunistic, but not afraid, certainly not 'wetting pants'
P.S. Wetting your pants is a euphemism. It wasn;t meant literally. I was saying that she was scared of them.
Romulans have 'been intended' to be something completely different for the vast majority of their appearances on screen, they even made the predecessors to the TOS Romulans look and act like the TNG-onwards Romulans on ENT. So I don't think that the argument that the TOS Romulans are the 'True' representatives of Romulan behavior and culture is really supported by the long record of Romulan depictions on Trek.
I'm aware you were using it as a euphemism. I just don't agree that the degree of discomfort she exhibited warrants that description though. She's gossipy and readily pries into (apparent) Tal Shiar affairs and even calls them out to their faces over their flimsy disguises. Then she brown-noses to them by giving them free food. Not exactly what I'd call 'pant-wetting' behavior.
To be fair, the only Romulans who showed up in Enterprise were intelligence types anyway. They had no characterization beyond that they were running an intelligence operation against the Vulcans, Humans, etc. Something that Section 31 did in the same series.
And....I think it's official now. We've lost track of the original topic.
We know they have their dissident movements-Toreth's father and also the reunificationists.
We know they euthanize 'defective' children. blind children would not be allowed to reach adulthood, for instance.
As a society they are characterized as being conservative, xenophobic and heavily militarized. Most of the Romulans we see have a strong sense of duty to the state and know how to keep a grudge. Many have no qualms about using deception or other underhanded actions to get what they want.
We know that the Romulan government has considered the Federation and the Klingon Empire to be mortal enemies and direct threats to their interest in the past, to the point that suggestions that Klingons be confined to zoos and the goal of making humans extinct as a species are not generally eyebrow-raising concepts in Romulan society.
Most, but not all Romulans from the shows hold true to these sorts of traits, and while it is true that most of the Romulans we see on the show are military, nothing that we see in the shows indicates that there civilian population is of significantly different demeanor. Some would fit in rather well with the members of the Republic we see I think...Jarok, the reunificationists, etc...but most would not: Sela, Tomalak, Letant...most of the military, etc.
This is why I would like t osee some reconciliation between the two nations and perhaps some better representation of the typical TNG-onwards Romulan.
As for joining the Star Empire (the original topic) I don't think there really are any good reasons to join the Star Empire any more. I suppose one might join for the protection that being part of a bigger whole would bring-to avoid being taken advantage of by Ferengi or raided by Nausicaan, Orion, Reman or Klingon pirates....but since LoR the RSE has been portrayed as the exact opposite...instead of Sela supposedly using nonviolent means to entice colonies back into the fold, we have them exterminating whole colonies.
Another reason I could have seen would have been the goal of rebuilding the empire. I can see a lot of patriotic Romulans being interested in that. But again, LoR (and in particular the newer episodes on Tribble) hammer one over the head with the fact that no civilian will willingly work for the Star Empire there is always some sort of situation where every civilian only works for them out of coercion- holding one's family hostage or other threats of violence.
So while there are conceivable reasons to work for the Star Empire, Cryptic has gone out of their way to remove them...so in its present state I cannot conceive of a reason to work for them (willingly). perhaps an agreeable solution to the Republic-Star Empire war will present itself when the storyline gets around to solving the Sela problem, but I doubt it.
"Never rely on the noble intentions of spies and thieves, Captain, and both of us are either one or the other" that's one of his answer. And since he call you "little spy" in this mission and in frozen, well, that makes him the thief.
The Reman hunting the refugees are the one guarding the station. Before the revamp, when the episodes where done, you could see a lot of Reman working with Hakeev. Both in the Hobus system, or part of Taris bodyguards. The one guarding the Vault seems to be the same faction. They are obviously not related to Obisek.
Obisek never said he hated Romulan. he says all along he'll do anything to free his people, even using Thalaron weapons.
And since later he join D'Tan, and works with him, following his orders, it seems he doesn't hate all the Romulan. Only the Tal Shiar.
Everyone saw that and thought how cruel they were. But first, you had the situation. The Romulan was trying to hurt Geordi, we don't even know if that was true.
Also, in many of our society, when a wife is pregnant, and the future child have a terrible genetic disease he will have all his life, you can abort. That's quite commonplace, a lot of people abort to avoid their child to be affected by bad stuff like down syndrome. Pretty sure the Romulan doesn't wait for the pregnancy to comes to an end, and kill the baby, they probably abort. It makes a lot more sense.
Now, I'm not entering a debate about abortion being barbaric or not. I'm just saying it's legal in most countries. Especially in the case were the child is affected by an incurable disease for all his life to come, and will be a burden for his family and the society. Not to mention he will likely suffer from it.
As for the RSE, it dies the day the Hobus Supernova destroyed the Homeworld. Probably even before when Shinzon killed the Senate, and placed the RSE in political turmoil for the next decades.
The RSE we have since then is nothing more than the self designed empire of a bunch of power hungry warlords.
It's just a name. Like the Holy Roman Empire in the middle age had nothing to do with the Roman Empire. They just took the name to make it more prestigious.
The name lost its meaning decades ago.
Tolmarius The only non-Government Romulans we see in the shows besides the Re-unificationists are the soup lady and assorted passerbies with no lines so most of the information we would be getting would always be military types.
As for the topic, most Imperialists want a Romulan Star Empire not the Romulan Star Empire from the game.
— Sabaton, "Great War"
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