In the five years I've been playing these three players have always been my greatest, most sensible and community orientated forum goers. When they speak, I always find myself feeling reflective and .... LOL ...somewhat stupid
Antoniasalieri had a good point on the PvP rebalance, though I think it went a little far away from what's needed.
PvP inherently has to be balanced to allow for competitive play.
To facilitate that you need to start from a balanced framework. Currently that doesn't exist. To make it exist there needs to be a core rebalance of the different classes.
Rebalance that, then aim for PvP balance. Then using the knowledge gleaned from PvP balance apply it to PvE and give the AI varying difficutly from ship loadout's and properly used hull/shield/damage modifiers to keep things interesting for players.
Chris Robert's on SC:
"You don't have to do something again and again and again repetitive that doesn't have much challange, that's just a general good gameplay thing."
So what you really want is the option not to grind, and still take part in the queues with all the others.
Now, if the queues simply took into account your "grind level" and adjusted your team's size up if lower grind level players were in it, you could have that, and still grind now and then if you feel like it.
Seems more realistic than a separate oldcode-shard.
all this grind nonsense is to keep pve'ers interested. according to their POS metrics, when they get done characters they get bored and stop logging on. they don't correctly que up to pvp, and stay entertained indefinitely like us, actually makeing use of the content ideal for done character.
thus we have grinds that are the equivalent of impossible to complete, because thats supposed to keep a higher percentage of players interested longer, then it does drive others away in disgust.
ya, GOOD LUCK WITH THAT CRYPTIC
so, seeing as pvp'ers don't need a grind to keep us interested, and it in fact is kryptonite to those that just want to pvp, i don't see why a new shard/ new pvp system/ turn all items levleless pvp que should not be considered, if they want to retain players. the grind is pve'er focused, this would be pvper focused.
in the end, more people have incentive to buy ships, cryptic wins
Give the Galaxy and Nebula but mainly the Galaxy the proper revamp it deserves. Too many ships from the same era, have far better boff and console layouts than the ship that was stated over and over again on screen to be the Federations most powerful ship through TNG to VOY
It was living proof that a game can survive a bad launch and be non-grindy in its first year.
There was no proof that it was sustainable - the only thing we can say for certain is that this MMO no longer exists and was changed into what we have now.
Take off your nostalgia filters. STO back then was a serious grind to get to level 50. Federation side required you to supplement your leveling from story missions with doing the exploration system or PvP. Klingon side was even worse since there was only PvP or exploration missions available since Klingons didn't have any story missions until about 6 months after the game went live.
This and this. At launch, the game didn't had enough content to lvl from 1 to whatever the cap was, and you had to grind patrol mission/mirror queue/exploration. Like a recent expansion, called "Delta Rising", you might have heard of it.
Klingons were a joke. You had to grind to lvlup, because there was nothing else. Did they fix the fed crews in the ship ? I don't know when this happened.
As for the rest of the content, did you even had STF ? I don't know if it was yet introduced in the game.
And anyway, 3 stf, talk about an endgame content.
The game itself was already greedy, not as much as of now, but still. Having a cash shop AND a sub. Just saying.
Stop using those googles. Seriously, it makes you look dumb.
Finally, you are complaining the game was good back then (5years ago), and never was since. Well, if you don't think the game is any good since all that time, and I seriously hate to say that, but why are you still here ?
5 years of playing a bad game ? I would have left a long time ago ! And stopped hoping.
all this grind nonsense is to keep pve'ers interested. according to their POS metrics, when they get done characters they get bored and stop logging on. they don't correctly que up to pvp, and stay entertained indefinitely like us, actually making use of the content ideal for done character...
What a remarkably elitist attitude on display from someone whom I respected a lot. Until I read this.
While I don't PvP, I do think STO needs PvP. And that PvP portion should be improved and upgraded along with everything else. Because some people want to play PvP in a Star Trek based game. I think they deserve the opportunity to do so. But I see no reason to act all smug and superior like you are a better person simply because you play PvP and I do not.
As to the bored and logging off thing. As long as there are Foundry missions I doubt I'll ever get completely bored with STO.
A six year old boy and his starship. Living the dream.
Hm. In my experience, there are plenty of PvPers who are proud of their top gear, and enjoy smashing lesser geared people.
not many pvpers i know enjoy 1 sided fights, this is the typical kind of thing you hear from pvp haters though. they imagine the guy that killed them must be getting some kind of demented glee out of every easy kill, but pvp'ers are drawn to pvp for a challenge found nowhere else, if they wanted to kill helpless targets, thats what pve is for. any pvp'er worth his salt would prefer a 14 to 15 match over a match more 1 sided.
What a remarkably elitist attitude on display from someone whom I respected a lot. Until I read this.
While I don't PvP, I do think STO needs PvP. And that PvP portion should be improved and upgraded along with everything else. Because some people want to play PvP in a Star Trek based game. I think they deserve the opportunity to do so. But I see no reason to act all smug and superior like you are a better person simply because you play PvP and I do not.
As to the bored and logging off thing. As long as there are Foundry missions I doubt I'll ever get completely bored with STO.
say its any past season, someone was dead against doing stfs, no one would call anyone an elitist if they said to that person once you get to level 50, the correct thing to do is STFs. or any other end game pve. only difference is the majority is on the opposite side of the fence regarding pvp, its the minority contrarian that always gets branded an elitist.
why not do the content that best fits you're character's development? i mean, there's never really been a reason to grind everything just for the sake of the grind, thats always been sto's problem. if you don't acknowledge pvp as an option or even existing, what was the point of any rep or currency or item grind? white quality skittle boats could always get you through the story and foundry. cryptic's response to that problem, DR, is utterly horrifying, not just what it is, in and of itself, but that it's the solution they settled on, shows how bad they are at trying to solve that problem.
pvp is the hardest content in the game, mathematically impossible pve doesn't count as hard, just awful. npc's make poor approximations of player ships, so there was a new and different learning curve to it, it wasn't exactly casual. but people that go to the trouble of making done characters can't really be considered casual ether. let me be clear here, when i said pvp is the correct thing to do, i was talking to those non casual players that go to the trouble of making done characters, buying the latest ships, going all out on lockbox traits and lobi sets, who then always end up board. im not saying anyone who doesn't pvp is a loser, you shouldn't even try to pvp unless your character is near peek development. a casual player is more likely to get board when they run out of story missions or what they find in the foundry, my comment was not directed at them.
not that i'd suggest anyone start pvping now, its nice and ruined, everything that once made it fun has been totally sucked out of it. i cant imagine anyone could enjoy whats in the ques now except those few that actually do get off on crushing those that are weaker.
What a remarkably elitist attitude on display from someone whom I respected a lot. Until I read this.
While I don't PvP, I do think STO needs PvP. And that PvP portion should be improved and upgraded along with everything else. Because some people want to play PvP in a Star Trek based game. I think they deserve the opportunity to do so. But I see no reason to act all smug and superior like you are a better person simply because you play PvP and I do not.
As to the bored and logging off thing. As long as there are Foundry missions I doubt I'll ever get completely bored with STO.
Elitist or not , is he wrong ?
PVE-ers got around the boredom by giving ourselves tasks : Alts , Foundry , self imposed STF grind (back when it was fun and worth it) .
The came the Reputations , and aside from about 2-3 missions from those , we stopped playing that content after we were done with the associated rep .
Then came the Starbases & holdings . More grind to keep the PVE-ers (as a whole) here .
Like it or not there are ppl in this game who come here to do one main thing that they like and feel like everything elses (apart from new mission content perhaps) is a "task" to finish and get it over with .
The PVP-ers are such a group .
So are the Foundry folks , the STF-ers and the folks who like to RP and do the "space Barbie" thing .
This is also one of the main reasons why we can't answer specific questions by Cryptic with one definitive voice ... , as one players cup of tea is vastly different from another players ... , and around here (the forums) there seems to be a tendency to de-value another players specific likes just because they don't match up EXACTLY with our own .
As to this round of discussions about PVP ... -- a long long time ago , I suggested on the PVP forums that if a PVP revamp were to ever occur , cookie-cutter builds might be the way to go , to put every player on the same equal footing .
Some of the opposers to that idea went on to say that PVP was about improving & playing with your build (read : buy stuff) , thus cookie-cutter builds would drive the spenders away .
As the current "infinite progression" skill tree has managed to drive a whole lot of PVPers away (as it forces them to grind PVE endlessly (something that most of them would rather not do) -- thus I still wonder if cookie-cutter builds are not the answer after all ... -- if we're talking about (re)introducing PVP as a fun , entertaining and most importantly *equal footing* experience for PVE players .
... lower Tier PVP with 4-6 powers is insanely fun , simple and engaging ... , and I feel sad for the super fast levelers of today that they are not able to experience that for the most part ...
I did not see any "Cash Grabs" till DR. Everything was available for a reasonable amount of Dil which could be converted to Zen. Nothing was "Pay-to-Win".
You should know that I am by no means a "pvp hater".
And I was not even judging. They want to play with top gear, let them!
But let us have balanced matches anyway. If one is twice as well equipped, one should count as two players in a match, or something like that.
Most PvPers are looking for as balanced a match as they can get. With all of Cryptics gear grinding cycles and rep junks and now spec points... most pvp players do feel like they have to go grind it all. Cryptic never adds anything that is only a bit better its always something that is so shockingly better that not having when the other guy does is just not an option.
Its why we have started so many player run stuffs in the past, trying to self police that stuff. (which of course leads to arguments but that's another story) I started Tyler Durden for no other reason then to setup 15 14 matches as often as possible with as many levels of people as would show up. Mancom this threads OP even created us an automated tool to help speed balance a match based on numbers uploaded to his third party leader board. (When we talk about missed opportunities... there was a MAJOR one. Mancoms leader board is awsome and the cool things he was using it for like the match making tool was excellent. If Cryptic was say CCP... they would have had a developer contact him and talk about ways they could help him and even fold what he was doing into what they where doing.)
Anyway in general sophlogimo most people that PvP enjoy a good match more then anything else. Ask most PvP people to list there top 3 favorite STO matches and they are going to come up with matches that lasted a long time and ended in a nail biting close score, I think my favorite match of all time is one I was in fact on the loosing end of.
Cryptic is extremely frustrating in terms of PvP... honestly seeing what someone like Mancom could do with honestly a few hours of his off time. Makes the lack of anything coming from Cryptic all the more painful.
all this grind nonsense is to keep pve'ers interested. according to their POS metrics, when they get done characters they get bored and stop logging on. they don't correctly que up to pvp, and stay entertained indefinitely like us, actually makeing use of the content ideal for done character.
thus we have grinds that are the equivalent of impossible to complete, because thats supposed to keep a higher percentage of players interested longer, then it does drive others away in disgust.
ya, GOOD LUCK WITH THAT CRYPTIC
so, seeing as pvp'ers don't need a grind to keep us interested, and it in fact is kryptonite to those that just want to pvp, i don't see why a new shard/ new pvp system/ turn all items levleless pvp que should not be considered, if they want to retain players. the grind is pve'er focused, this would be pvper focused.
in the end, more people have incentive to buy ships, cryptic wins
Wow couldn't agree more!!!!!!!!
A complete charter's purpose in my eyes is to PvP, If your a spineless worm w/o the heart for battle I can see how an endless grind of lock boxes and doffs and dumb points, etc, etc, etc..... Fleets points......... etc, etc, etc would keep you hooked on doing the same 10 missions over and over again etc, etc, etc, ........ oh I'm sorry I fell asleep.
What I mean is, I want the game to balance PVP so that maybe there is cap set up where buy no matter what you bring into a PvP arena is cap at standard Admiral level Equipment and only standard tier 5 console slots are active. That way the game is (brace yourself) fair and balanced. I'm not asking to make Galaxy turn on a dime I'm asking for the PvP aspect of the game to be a test of skill and strategy not a contest of who did the most grinding. There can be an limitless variation in the ships, weapon types, Boffs, even traits, just level it off and limit the number of skills you can set for PVP, limit the magnitude of power any one player can have and bring back tricks like disabling engines and shields at random (due to weapon type) or with skills. That way I can develop my own strategy, my own ship, my own weapons, and command layout but I am no more powerful than the next guy. I may be stronger in some area like maneuverability but my opponent is better at tanking. That's all us PvPers really want..... You could make it as simple as a set of ships to choose from (all idk captain level) a max of 4 officers, 5 traits, and the original effects of weapons and sci skills etc... everyone balanced and I would play much much more simply because I could pick up and play at will. I would even buy more ships because I would enjoy that type of variation in my play style....... If your a PvPer and you feel the way I do give me a +1
PvE'ers want to make this a casual style game again
Meanwhile cryptic is turning it into a big pile of steaming monkey TRIBBLE.
As for me idk ive been playing but only for short durations each time getting shorter as most the people on my friends list are no longer playing so ...yeah idk anymore.
making a new shard wont help the game in its current state even if they made cardis playable faction this game will continue to slide imho i think the damage is done and the dye is cast.
There are a lot of great ideas in this thread. I do hope the devs take note.
I do agree that season 1.2 was a point in this game that fully cared about story based mission and fixing the issues with the game. It would be very nice to see the focus of STO return to those two very important aspects. Issues like this should not be allowed to carry on for months (and it's still an issue) without being fixed.
I do like a lot of the ships that have come since that point in the games history. It was utterly ridiculous to have to wait 4 years for an Ambassador to make it into STO because some dev at the time didn't like the ship. This game needs every IP ship in the game and we are still far from that point. The TOS Dread, Romulan D7, and the many more iconic ships that are missing. IP ships be top priority before PWE created ships and PWE created variants, please!
Players should be able to play any ship at any level! Spare me the CBS said no, and many other excuses people cite to not want certain ships at different levels. If I want to play a MVAE from T1 to T6, then I should be able to. The entire ship system could be rewritten to have ships upgraded at each tier to allow players to play using their favorite ships at any level they wish.
Lock Boxes are definitely something I would prefer to see gone. There are some who enjoy them and the cross-faction ships can be nice at times. My solution to this is one mentioned over and over since the introduction of lock boxes. Allow players to turn them off and on as drops! Personally, I preferred the Red Holiday Gift that originally gave us the Jem'Hadar Attack Ship. Why? Because it was a tasteful way to implement that strategy without sounding like they are just out to part the player and all of their money. The frequency these ships were released at needs to slow down as well.
We all have our wants for this game. As players and fans of the IP, we are the people you should be paying more attention to when it comes to any addition or change to this game. Our posts may not always be the easiest to read and they may contain things you don't want to read or acknowledge. Saying you don't want to see the same things repeated over and over again when they go ignored is like asking TMZ to not publish a video of Britney Spears going crazy. :P The simplest way to shut us up is to address whatever it is without insulting the players in a timely manor.
This game and forum could be better for everyone! It's easier to work toward that with both sides having the same goals in mind with plenty of communication.
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5 pages about PvP is needed in the game, no it is not, yes it is, I have seen the numbers, no you have not seen them, yes I did, no the numbers are broken, I am PvPing since closed Beta, no you are not you only have 480 posts on your count, PvP is not important, yes it is don't troll, I was once a Dev by myself at Sierra so I know what I am talking about, ....
Not including Vapers, Bug & Temporal ship owners in their hay day, pet swampers, a whole list of cheese console users and pre-mades .
... YMMV ...
100% FALSE.
Ship builds don't = unbalanced match.
Vapers have a place in PvP believe it or not... and its not looking for easy kills. Your comments are those of someone who has never been able to play in a high end match in STO. Yes extreme DPS is a way to counter team healing... which is where the "vapor" builds come in. Teams that fly to heavy on the vapor builds get(got really now) spanked by teams that ran enough science to neuter them.
The PvP game in STO when you strip away most of the Power Creep junk is honestly very well balanced. That includes the Uber Tanks and the Uber DPS and the Uber control builds. They all have there place... STO pvp WAS (way back 5+ years ago) designed to be a 5v5 game. In a 5v5 game specialized builds have there roll.
Honestly if Mancoms shard came to be... or if my PvP balance revamp happened. Some people would be very annoyed when they realized they would have to PLAY There roll. Cruisers are NOT for DPS... nor are Sci ships... for that matter Sci ships DO NOT make better healers then cruisers either. In a Vanilla STO setup ship builds that play to that ships proper roll do well... and teams built on balance (1-2 DPS 1-2 Control 1-2 Healers... in pretty much any order that =5) do very well.
As for the gear and ships you listed... its Cryptics fault. In a MMO you can't add Creep things and expect people to not get them. Once one person does everyone else has to as well. I flew temporals and bug ships sure, cause I wanted to actually play in matches vs other good teams that also used them. lol
5 pages about PvP is needed in the game, no it is not, yes it is, I have seen the numbers, no you have not seen them, yes I did, no the numbers are broken, I am PvPing since closed Beta, no you are not you only have 480 posts on your count, PvP is not important, yes it is don't troll, I was once a Dev by myself at Sierra so I know what I am talking about, ....
Sierra... lol
Let me guess one of STOs RP fiends told you the story about the time he worked on the flesh coloured sprites for The Leisure Suit Larry series.
For my personal taste and playstyle, pretty much everything that came after Season 1.2 made the game worse. Not just "not the improvements I wanted to see", but truly "worse than if they had not changed anything at all". Now obviously, this is just my personal opinion and there will be many players (probably even a significant majority) who disagree with me, but nevertheless it is how I feel about the game.
So what are they doing wrong: Pretty much everything. No proper balancing, instead we have cash grabs everywhere. I even prefer the old plain missions over the new fancy ones with their puzzles that I find annoying and their cutscenes that all too often can't be skipped. I strongly dislike how everything has become so gear-dependent, that leveling takes so long and how anyone can think of lottery boxes as good game design is beyond me.
How it could be better: Open a second shard (your Tribble/Redshirt proves that this can be done) that runs a Season 1.2 version of STO.
Again: I realise that most of you don't share this opinion. I don't expect you to share it. I can understand why you would disagree. But for me, a Season 1.2 shard would solve almost all problems that I have with STO right now.
s1.2 was not f2p ,but the game in s5-6 was the best.That was when the game got the most people (atleast according to steam charts) and was the moment when we had the best pvp.Id actually pay a monthly sub to play those seasons again.
I'd actually be pretty stoked to see a real PvP change made to the game. While I'm not a hardcore PvP, I think if you look in other games casual PvP can be done right, and fun. STO is just a disaster in design and lack of maintenance.
The empty space 5v5s are pretty much for the harder PvP crowd, its full on killing people in coordinated teams. It can be fun if balanced, if all the cheesy consoles and doffs are limited. You could pretty easily get back to a playable fun state just by flagging rep powers, Doffs, and uni consoles as non-pvp. Possibly introduce pvp only consoles while you are at it, like a healing debuff console, etc.
Where STO is seriously lacking to get the majority interested in PvP are more elaborate encounters, so make a 5v5 or 10v10 with one side or both sides defending assets. Think starbase defense in PvP, or larger installations with weapon hardpoints to take down. There are so many scenarios that you can borrow from existing content its mind boggling none of it has happened.
In Rift i've been playing Warfronts, which is pretty casual pvp, they never just kill people, there is always a goal. STO PVP has so much more potential than Rift's, but its so wasted on short sightedness.
Did you play STO back in 2010? It was the living proof that MMOs don't have to be grindy.
You're wrong here. Back when Cryptic sold costumes and playable races and other sensible things, I bought stuff. But I don't want to buy master keys and get into the lottery game, or spend real money on dilithium. And ever since DR my in-game time has dropped to almost nothing. Restoring S1.2 would increase the time I spend in the game and get them more of my money.
That's the problem. There simply is nothing out there that has a flight model comparable to STO and that 2010 grind-free gameplay.
I think you are mistaken about the release schedule. Infected, Cure, Khitomer Accord and Terradome were in the game during S1.2. (The 4-piece Borg set came later though iirc.)
I don't expect them to start a second shard either, but I believe that it is still more likely to happen than all the changes you suggest. A second S1.2 shared requires a little bit of hardware and recompiling an old version of STO. What you suggest requires lots of new code.
But we both know that neither of our ideas will be implemented. If we want something, we have to do it ourselves. It has been this way with tournaments and leaderboards. And it will be the same for a properly balanced space combat game.
Hilbert have u been working on the game any more?? I agree that a shard is a great idea, husanaks idea would work also, nwither will happen sadly, if either did my fleet would likely return
Hilbert have u been working on the game any more?? I agree that a shard is a great idea, husanaks idea would work also, nwither will happen sadly, if either did my fleet would likely return
Hey I log in from time to time so your fleet is alive lol
Well its more or less some of the dangling Season 3 areas of expansion that we left under developed.
The Unide arc at the time and the Q mission to save young Siskos ship.. Nice we liked that..
Then what its done already and still had a level cap.
Herd a few Geki sure liked it. .team efforts after learnin the mechanic worked..
but it was way out in the hinter lands ..the fleet mass as a based worked..
You could just sortie out then go to you formation leaders ship interior for more of the nice Trek.
Filling continuity gaps or getting more out of sub arcs helps us mesh with changes
and sometimes it seams things get simplified for ease of play and you loose some of the Trek chemistry i n the process.
Maybe a design change to focus on a Voyager type mission arc where you have more FE negotiations to escape would be a good shard test?
Comments
In the five years I've been playing these three players have always been my greatest, most sensible and community orientated forum goers. When they speak, I always find myself feeling reflective and .... LOL ...somewhat stupid
Thanks for the fond memories of the heydays.
PvP inherently has to be balanced to allow for competitive play.
To facilitate that you need to start from a balanced framework. Currently that doesn't exist. To make it exist there needs to be a core rebalance of the different classes.
Rebalance that, then aim for PvP balance. Then using the knowledge gleaned from PvP balance apply it to PvE and give the AI varying difficutly from ship loadout's and properly used hull/shield/damage modifiers to keep things interesting for players.
"You don't have to do something again and again and again repetitive that doesn't have much challange, that's just a general good gameplay thing."
all this grind nonsense is to keep pve'ers interested. according to their POS metrics, when they get done characters they get bored and stop logging on. they don't correctly que up to pvp, and stay entertained indefinitely like us, actually makeing use of the content ideal for done character.
thus we have grinds that are the equivalent of impossible to complete, because thats supposed to keep a higher percentage of players interested longer, then it does drive others away in disgust.
ya, GOOD LUCK WITH THAT CRYPTIC
so, seeing as pvp'ers don't need a grind to keep us interested, and it in fact is kryptonite to those that just want to pvp, i don't see why a new shard/ new pvp system/ turn all items levleless pvp que should not be considered, if they want to retain players. the grind is pve'er focused, this would be pvper focused.
in the end, more people have incentive to buy ships, cryptic wins
Klingons were a joke. You had to grind to lvlup, because there was nothing else. Did they fix the fed crews in the ship ? I don't know when this happened.
As for the rest of the content, did you even had STF ? I don't know if it was yet introduced in the game.
And anyway, 3 stf, talk about an endgame content.
The game itself was already greedy, not as much as of now, but still. Having a cash shop AND a sub. Just saying.
Stop using those googles. Seriously, it makes you look dumb.
Finally, you are complaining the game was good back then (5years ago), and never was since. Well, if you don't think the game is any good since all that time, and I seriously hate to say that, but why are you still here ?
5 years of playing a bad game ? I would have left a long time ago ! And stopped hoping.
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What a remarkably elitist attitude on display from someone whom I respected a lot. Until I read this.
While I don't PvP, I do think STO needs PvP. And that PvP portion should be improved and upgraded along with everything else. Because some people want to play PvP in a Star Trek based game. I think they deserve the opportunity to do so. But I see no reason to act all smug and superior like you are a better person simply because you play PvP and I do not.
As to the bored and logging off thing. As long as there are Foundry missions I doubt I'll ever get completely bored with STO.
not many pvpers i know enjoy 1 sided fights, this is the typical kind of thing you hear from pvp haters though. they imagine the guy that killed them must be getting some kind of demented glee out of every easy kill, but pvp'ers are drawn to pvp for a challenge found nowhere else, if they wanted to kill helpless targets, thats what pve is for. any pvp'er worth his salt would prefer a 14 to 15 match over a match more 1 sided.
say its any past season, someone was dead against doing stfs, no one would call anyone an elitist if they said to that person once you get to level 50, the correct thing to do is STFs. or any other end game pve. only difference is the majority is on the opposite side of the fence regarding pvp, its the minority contrarian that always gets branded an elitist.
why not do the content that best fits you're character's development? i mean, there's never really been a reason to grind everything just for the sake of the grind, thats always been sto's problem. if you don't acknowledge pvp as an option or even existing, what was the point of any rep or currency or item grind? white quality skittle boats could always get you through the story and foundry. cryptic's response to that problem, DR, is utterly horrifying, not just what it is, in and of itself, but that it's the solution they settled on, shows how bad they are at trying to solve that problem.
pvp is the hardest content in the game, mathematically impossible pve doesn't count as hard, just awful. npc's make poor approximations of player ships, so there was a new and different learning curve to it, it wasn't exactly casual. but people that go to the trouble of making done characters can't really be considered casual ether. let me be clear here, when i said pvp is the correct thing to do, i was talking to those non casual players that go to the trouble of making done characters, buying the latest ships, going all out on lockbox traits and lobi sets, who then always end up board. im not saying anyone who doesn't pvp is a loser, you shouldn't even try to pvp unless your character is near peek development. a casual player is more likely to get board when they run out of story missions or what they find in the foundry, my comment was not directed at them.
not that i'd suggest anyone start pvping now, its nice and ruined, everything that once made it fun has been totally sucked out of it. i cant imagine anyone could enjoy whats in the ques now except those few that actually do get off on crushing those that are weaker.
Elitist or not , is he wrong ?
PVE-ers got around the boredom by giving ourselves tasks : Alts , Foundry , self imposed STF grind (back when it was fun and worth it) .
The came the Reputations , and aside from about 2-3 missions from those , we stopped playing that content after we were done with the associated rep .
Then came the Starbases & holdings . More grind to keep the PVE-ers (as a whole) here .
Like it or not there are ppl in this game who come here to do one main thing that they like and feel like everything elses (apart from new mission content perhaps) is a "task" to finish and get it over with .
The PVP-ers are such a group .
So are the Foundry folks , the STF-ers and the folks who like to RP and do the "space Barbie" thing .
This is also one of the main reasons why we can't answer specific questions by Cryptic with one definitive voice ... , as one players cup of tea is vastly different from another players ... , and around here (the forums) there seems to be a tendency to de-value another players specific likes just because they don't match up EXACTLY with our own .
As to this round of discussions about PVP ... -- a long long time ago , I suggested on the PVP forums that if a PVP revamp were to ever occur , cookie-cutter builds might be the way to go , to put every player on the same equal footing .
Some of the opposers to that idea went on to say that PVP was about improving & playing with your build (read : buy stuff) , thus cookie-cutter builds would drive the spenders away .
As the current "infinite progression" skill tree has managed to drive a whole lot of PVPers away (as it forces them to grind PVE endlessly (something that most of them would rather not do) -- thus I still wonder if cookie-cutter builds are not the answer after all ... -- if we're talking about (re)introducing PVP as a fun , entertaining and most importantly *equal footing* experience for PVE players .
... lower Tier PVP with 4-6 powers is insanely fun , simple and engaging ... , and I feel sad for the super fast levelers of today that they are not able to experience that for the most part ...
DR went full on Pay to Win.
Most PvPers are looking for as balanced a match as they can get. With all of Cryptics gear grinding cycles and rep junks and now spec points... most pvp players do feel like they have to go grind it all. Cryptic never adds anything that is only a bit better its always something that is so shockingly better that not having when the other guy does is just not an option.
Its why we have started so many player run stuffs in the past, trying to self police that stuff. (which of course leads to arguments but that's another story) I started Tyler Durden for no other reason then to setup 15 14 matches as often as possible with as many levels of people as would show up. Mancom this threads OP even created us an automated tool to help speed balance a match based on numbers uploaded to his third party leader board. (When we talk about missed opportunities... there was a MAJOR one. Mancoms leader board is awsome and the cool things he was using it for like the match making tool was excellent. If Cryptic was say CCP... they would have had a developer contact him and talk about ways they could help him and even fold what he was doing into what they where doing.)
Anyway in general sophlogimo most people that PvP enjoy a good match more then anything else. Ask most PvP people to list there top 3 favorite STO matches and they are going to come up with matches that lasted a long time and ended in a nail biting close score, I think my favorite match of all time is one I was in fact on the loosing end of.
Cryptic is extremely frustrating in terms of PvP... honestly seeing what someone like Mancom could do with honestly a few hours of his off time. Makes the lack of anything coming from Cryptic all the more painful.
Wow couldn't agree more!!!!!!!!
A complete charter's purpose in my eyes is to PvP, If your a spineless worm w/o the heart for battle I can see how an endless grind of lock boxes and doffs and dumb points, etc, etc, etc..... Fleets points......... etc, etc, etc would keep you hooked on doing the same 10 missions over and over again etc, etc, etc, ........ oh I'm sorry I fell asleep.
What I mean is, I want the game to balance PVP so that maybe there is cap set up where buy no matter what you bring into a PvP arena is cap at standard Admiral level Equipment and only standard tier 5 console slots are active. That way the game is (brace yourself) fair and balanced. I'm not asking to make Galaxy turn on a dime I'm asking for the PvP aspect of the game to be a test of skill and strategy not a contest of who did the most grinding. There can be an limitless variation in the ships, weapon types, Boffs, even traits, just level it off and limit the number of skills you can set for PVP, limit the magnitude of power any one player can have and bring back tricks like disabling engines and shields at random (due to weapon type) or with skills. That way I can develop my own strategy, my own ship, my own weapons, and command layout but I am no more powerful than the next guy. I may be stronger in some area like maneuverability but my opponent is better at tanking. That's all us PvPers really want..... You could make it as simple as a set of ships to choose from (all idk captain level) a max of 4 officers, 5 traits, and the original effects of weapons and sci skills etc... everyone balanced and I would play much much more simply because I could pick up and play at will. I would even buy more ships because I would enjoy that type of variation in my play style....... If your a PvPer and you feel the way I do give me a +1
PvE'ers want to make this a casual style game again
Meanwhile cryptic is turning it into a big pile of steaming monkey TRIBBLE.
As for me idk ive been playing but only for short durations each time getting shorter as most the people on my friends list are no longer playing so ...yeah idk anymore.
making a new shard wont help the game in its current state even if they made cardis playable faction this game will continue to slide imho i think the damage is done and the dye is cast.
Not including Vapers, Bug & Temporal ship owners in their hay day, pet swampers, a whole list of cheese console users and pre-mades .
... YMMV ...
I do agree that season 1.2 was a point in this game that fully cared about story based mission and fixing the issues with the game. It would be very nice to see the focus of STO return to those two very important aspects. Issues like this should not be allowed to carry on for months (and it's still an issue) without being fixed.
I do like a lot of the ships that have come since that point in the games history. It was utterly ridiculous to have to wait 4 years for an Ambassador to make it into STO because some dev at the time didn't like the ship. This game needs every IP ship in the game and we are still far from that point. The TOS Dread, Romulan D7, and the many more iconic ships that are missing. IP ships be top priority before PWE created ships and PWE created variants, please!
Players should be able to play any ship at any level! Spare me the CBS said no, and many other excuses people cite to not want certain ships at different levels. If I want to play a MVAE from T1 to T6, then I should be able to. The entire ship system could be rewritten to have ships upgraded at each tier to allow players to play using their favorite ships at any level they wish.
Lock Boxes are definitely something I would prefer to see gone. There are some who enjoy them and the cross-faction ships can be nice at times. My solution to this is one mentioned over and over since the introduction of lock boxes. Allow players to turn them off and on as drops! Personally, I preferred the Red Holiday Gift that originally gave us the Jem'Hadar Attack Ship. Why? Because it was a tasteful way to implement that strategy without sounding like they are just out to part the player and all of their money. The frequency these ships were released at needs to slow down as well.
We all have our wants for this game. As players and fans of the IP, we are the people you should be paying more attention to when it comes to any addition or change to this game. Our posts may not always be the easiest to read and they may contain things you don't want to read or acknowledge. Saying you don't want to see the same things repeated over and over again when they go ignored is like asking TMZ to not publish a video of Britney Spears going crazy. :P The simplest way to shut us up is to address whatever it is without insulting the players in a timely manor.
This game and forum could be better for everyone! It's easier to work toward that with both sides having the same goals in mind with plenty of communication.
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5 pages about PvP is needed in the game, no it is not, yes it is, I have seen the numbers, no you have not seen them, yes I did, no the numbers are broken, I am PvPing since closed Beta, no you are not you only have 480 posts on your count, PvP is not important, yes it is don't troll, I was once a Dev by myself at Sierra so I know what I am talking about, ....
100% FALSE.
Ship builds don't = unbalanced match.
Vapers have a place in PvP believe it or not... and its not looking for easy kills. Your comments are those of someone who has never been able to play in a high end match in STO. Yes extreme DPS is a way to counter team healing... which is where the "vapor" builds come in. Teams that fly to heavy on the vapor builds get(got really now) spanked by teams that ran enough science to neuter them.
The PvP game in STO when you strip away most of the Power Creep junk is honestly very well balanced. That includes the Uber Tanks and the Uber DPS and the Uber control builds. They all have there place... STO pvp WAS (way back 5+ years ago) designed to be a 5v5 game. In a 5v5 game specialized builds have there roll.
Honestly if Mancoms shard came to be... or if my PvP balance revamp happened. Some people would be very annoyed when they realized they would have to PLAY There roll. Cruisers are NOT for DPS... nor are Sci ships... for that matter Sci ships DO NOT make better healers then cruisers either. In a Vanilla STO setup ship builds that play to that ships proper roll do well... and teams built on balance (1-2 DPS 1-2 Control 1-2 Healers... in pretty much any order that =5) do very well.
As for the gear and ships you listed... its Cryptics fault. In a MMO you can't add Creep things and expect people to not get them. Once one person does everyone else has to as well. I flew temporals and bug ships sure, cause I wanted to actually play in matches vs other good teams that also used them. lol
Sierra... lol
Let me guess one of STOs RP fiends told you the story about the time he worked on the flesh coloured sprites for The Leisure Suit Larry series.
s1.2 was not f2p ,but the game in s5-6 was the best.That was when the game got the most people (atleast according to steam charts) and was the moment when we had the best pvp.Id actually pay a monthly sub to play those seasons again.
The empty space 5v5s are pretty much for the harder PvP crowd, its full on killing people in coordinated teams. It can be fun if balanced, if all the cheesy consoles and doffs are limited. You could pretty easily get back to a playable fun state just by flagging rep powers, Doffs, and uni consoles as non-pvp. Possibly introduce pvp only consoles while you are at it, like a healing debuff console, etc.
Where STO is seriously lacking to get the majority interested in PvP are more elaborate encounters, so make a 5v5 or 10v10 with one side or both sides defending assets. Think starbase defense in PvP, or larger installations with weapon hardpoints to take down. There are so many scenarios that you can borrow from existing content its mind boggling none of it has happened.
In Rift i've been playing Warfronts, which is pretty casual pvp, they never just kill people, there is always a goal. STO PVP has so much more potential than Rift's, but its so wasted on short sightedness.
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Hilbert have u been working on the game any more?? I agree that a shard is a great idea, husanaks idea would work also, nwither will happen sadly, if either did my fleet would likely return
Hey I log in from time to time so your fleet is alive lol
Keep flyin the flag!! If it improves ill def return as will others although i have no faith at all.
Well its more or less some of the dangling Season 3 areas of expansion that we left under developed.
The Unide arc at the time and the Q mission to save young Siskos ship.. Nice we liked that..
Then what its done already and still had a level cap.
Herd a few Geki sure liked it. .team efforts after learnin the mechanic worked..
but it was way out in the hinter lands ..the fleet mass as a based worked..
You could just sortie out then go to you formation leaders ship interior for more of the nice Trek.
Filling continuity gaps or getting more out of sub arcs helps us mesh with changes
and sometimes it seams things get simplified for ease of play and you loose some of the Trek chemistry i n the process.
Maybe a design change to focus on a Voyager type mission arc where you have more FE negotiations to escape would be a good shard test?
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