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The Tacofangs Approach: How about a season 1.2 shard?
mancom
Member Posts: 784 Arc User
Let's give this a try.Negative comments, criticism, your opinions, etc. are all TOTALLY FINE! Please keep posting them. Tell us what we're doing wrong. But tell us HOW you think it could be better.
For my personal taste and playstyle, pretty much everything that came after Season 1.2 made the game worse. Not just "not the improvements I wanted to see", but truly "worse than if they had not changed anything at all". Now obviously, this is just my personal opinion and there will be many players (probably even a significant majority) who disagree with me, but nevertheless it is how I feel about the game.
So what are they doing wrong: Pretty much everything. No proper balancing, instead we have cash grabs everywhere. I even prefer the old plain missions over the new fancy ones with their puzzles that I find annoying and their cutscenes that all too often can't be skipped. I strongly dislike how everything has become so gear-dependent, that leveling takes so long and how anyone can think of lottery boxes as good game design is beyond me.
How it could be better: Open a second shard (your Tribble/Redshirt proves that this can be done) that runs a Season 1.2 version of STO.
Again: I realise that most of you don't share this opinion. I don't expect you to share it. I can understand why you would disagree. But for me, a Season 1.2 shard would solve almost all problems that I have with STO right now.
Post edited by mancom on
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Call the new shard, The Shard of Possibilities and have it rotate through different seasonal content on a regular basis. :P Or you could call it the Guardian shard due to seasonal 'time travel.'
Joined January 2009
But there is stuff I want back, at least for PvP.
- No Gear Grind
- No OP Lockbox ships
- No Specialization Grind.
- No DOFFs
I love specializations as a concept, but they totally clash with PvP. I think it's awesome for PvE and shouldn't be removed or anything.But just... create a clean, "simpler" form of PVP. If necessary, require a dilithium entry fee to this "Vanilla PvP" (or at least the "hardcore" PvPers that do more than 3 matches per day for their Dilithium reward), just to ensure that it's still worth it financially to you. I don't really care. I just don't want a gear & grind barrier to entry.
I'd start with only giving access to the "classic" BO powers, but I personally woud also love to see Intel and future specialization BO powers balanced for future PvP. I think it would be much easier to balance this if you're able to ignore a lot of the other stuff - sets, unique speciality mods for weapons from reputations or fleets, Duty Officers.
Heck, just turn every mod you put on your ship to a 5 % Bonus Skill Points from PvP matches or something like that, so that people still have every reason to max out their gear - but they don't actually get competitive benefits from it.
Yes, it means making room for a PvP Balancing of powers parallel to PvE Balancing. But it would be so much better for PvP.
Which is why I just complain about ratios/percentages, rather than offering suggestions.
Which is why I just complain about RNG, rather than offering suggestions.
Which is why I just complain about basic QA, rather than offering suggestions.
1.- Decrease the amount of a PADD, 500 dilitium is too much, 300 would be fine.
2.- Please, please, please!!, check the performance of the game, has been decreasing in time, try to find a way to use the UI as a surface rather than an overlay, seems that's the problem of the slowdowns.
3.- Do something nice with the satellite turrets!, worth nothing without shields!!, let us upgrade them at least!
4.- A cancel button for fleet projects, that the resources get lost is irrelevant, we don't care about them!
5.- release some mechanism to upgrade our t4 mirror ships to t5u (mirror lockbox perhaps), and inside that lockbox put as price the anniversary mirror Oddy/Bortas, I'll love to get them just for the painting.
6.- include in the upgrade system the kits, that is really needed.
As soon as i remember more, i'll let you know.
1) Listen to Hilbert and do whatever he says!
2) Don't come up with your own ideas or at least ask Hilbert what he thinks about it.
3) Listen to the players wishes
4) Make Hilbert your new lead designer
Since that won't happen:
1) Remove the grind from the game - add a new "max out now" button to the game. (costs 50 Dil, max out level, reputation, specialization, all traits...etc. you get the point)
2) Balance! PvP is dead because there is no balance! (btw, PvE is dying aswell atm) I'd be fine with all the shiny stuff you release IF it was balanced!
3) Bug fixes!
Since that won't happen:
1) Just be honest for a single time in your dev lifes and admit that you...
...a) don't care what the players want and...
...b) there will never ever be ANY update to PvP although that has been promised for years!
Since that won't happen:
1) Everyone should just quit this game for good!
ps:
Hilbert, did you read my pm?
All of which has nothing to do with PvP. Read the OP before posting a random list of things you don't like.
As for the OP, I would be extremely happy if what Mancom describes happens. It won't, but if these happen I will be satisfied:
No Gear Grind
No OP Lockbox ships
No Specialization Grind.
No DOFFs
If this is implemented in PvP I will hours and hours of STO (much more than I'm doing right now), and my wallet will open again to buy stuff from Cryptic.
Why would it be fine? Can you explain how something that is currently free, and only requires you to find someone willing to train your officer, needs to have ANY amount of dilithium charged for it? Is the time gate for PADDs not enough?
When I get the idea I want a particular skill, there is often not anyone around. And by the time there is, I'll have forgotten about it.
Trading PADDs sounds so much easier.
You also omit that you need to find someone that has a spare BOFF slot open. A BOFF slot costs 125 Zen. Price that in Dilithium.
And that BOFF you want taught cannot be bound to you.
You have a limited number of options for ships, and they're not customizable. You bring your own Boffs, and can set up your trays however you like. Then you go fight other people similarly equipped. And while DC offers new legends characters in their cash shop fairly regularly, they do their best to keep them balanced with existing characters.
STO battles was much better and interesting without doffs, lockbox ships, universal consoles, reputation skills, etc
My character Tsin'xing
Second, MMOs are grindy. They just are. To varying degrees, perhaps, but that is the genre and, ultimately, the core gameplay. Keep pecking that lever for the reward pellet. If you're not into that, maybe you shouldn't be playing.
Third, you all need to understand that PWE always wants to make more money, and you are all essentially saying, "We want to give you less of our money (and time)." Do you honestly think they're going to go for that?
For what it's worth, I do not consider myself an apologist, nor a pessimist, but a realist. The game is what it is, and your influence over its course is miniscule. If you're no longer satisfied with the entertainment you get for your time and money, your only real option is to eat the sunk cost and find something else that pleases you more.
I had a Fed Engineer called Kimberly Hawking. She had a Vesper-class cruiser, the U.S.S. Hesperus. She was level 16 - it was the level cap back then.
I felt she had just the right amount of bridge officer power to make any command given to a bridge officer feel significant and unique (no power bloat). I felt there was a compelling difference between the different ship types.
I also think the difficulty was spot on - getting intercepted by klingons (yes, it happened back then - we were at war!) had me suddenly surrounded by a trio of B'rel Bird of Prey that were pounding hard at my shields, and I had to scramble to find ways to survive. If I wasn't cautious, a Klingon Raptor could go on an attack run and be totally capable of destroying me.
PvP, at the odd level 16 cap, was also great. It felt like a very significant choice to be a cruiser and 'lead' the battle for my team, and a point of pride to last as long as possible while under fire. Exploding from having firepower from 3 other rival players wasn't even frustrating because if I did it right, it took them 35+ seconds to take care of me that way - time I bought for my team. Exhilirating.
When they removed the level-cap, I was sad to leave my Vesper-class cruiser, but the Commander rank offered me the opportunity to fly around a Dakota-class heavy cruiser (which was a big deal to me back then) and got me into Romulan front missions. PvP still had a great balance to it, and science ships got especially potent (I never minded how powerful some skills, like Viral Matrix, felt. It felt very appropriate to me and I was okay with being on the receiving end).
Rose-tinted lenses fell away at Captain rank, with my acquisition a Galaxy-class exploration cruiser. I had been extremely giddy at the thought of getting this iconic ship - I had fantasies of flying one around for some time before that point - only to have all my enthusiasm smashed to tiny little pieces by the utterly bad turn rate and inertia values of the ship... which pretty much poisoned any enjoyment I might have had with it. The heavy cruiser was wonderful, but it's upgrade actually felt inferior just on that account. I bailed from PvP back then because there simply wasn't any fighting in a Galaxy-class; it was just a big coffin - my previous Dakota-class cruiser dealt better against the Klingon Vor'chas than the Galaxy did. That was a sad, sad day for me.
At which point I pretty much bailed on the cruiser/engineers altogether, which made the character of choice for the head start be my betazoid science officer, whom I turned into a captain in her own right. For awhile, that felt amazing because science captain/ships, while not as potent as the other two in performance, had all the abilities needed to control the pace of a fight. It felt especially empowering. And then the nerfbat hit them, over and over, until they started sucking a lot. And it's been like that for a long time... actually until fairly recently. And even now some of the stronger control powers of the past (Jam Sensors, Scramble Sensors, Viral Matrix) are really shadows of their former selves.
But ... it wouldn't yet have the original 4 STF'S at 1.2 .
...and without those , you might just as well asked for a Season 1.2 PVP shard ...
Sorry, but the only one that is talking about Pvp seems to be you, if you read the OP, there is a lot of suggestions, almost no mention of pvp, so... what are you talking about??
that would motivate me to continue buying ships, and thats what maters isn't it cryptic? currently i'm motivated to never buy anything or play again, at least until the specialization grind time is AT LEAST cut in half.
totally holding my breath on all of that. :rolleyes:
Salieris PvP system... and a Step By Step way to implement it on the cheap.
- First off let me say I am going to assume a few things are doable. Please keep in mind that some things where hinted at by Cryptic developers in the past as things they *could* do in someway.
Step One.
Delete the current PvP system. Delete the Ques completely. This will allow you to start over with out the issues of the legacy code.
- Create a PvP "ship and toon doll" for all toons. This doll should be a copy of the standard, with the following exception. This doll should only be allowed to slot items with a [PvP] mod on them.
- Recreate the Ques with new Code. The new ques will auto switch your ship to the "PvP Doll" when you load into a match.
- Add PvP gear vendors to all social hubs.
- Create standard gear for the PvP gear vendors. This gear should all Standard weapon types (Phaser, Disruptor, Plasma, Tetryon, Polaron, Antiproton, Quantum, Photon, Plasma T, transpahsic, tricobalt) all weapons should be mk x 12 and have NO mods accept [PvP]. Likewise create all the standard type of engines / deflectors / shields / ground armours and consoles all MK 12 with no mods. Cost on this gear should be set to ZERO.
- "Ship and toon Dolls" should also include a few NEW slot options.
1) Weapon Modifier on both space and ground dolls
2) Engine GFX Modifier
3) Deflector GFX Modifier
4) Shield GFX modifer
5) 2 Universal Console Slots (standard on all SHIPS NO EXCEPTIONS NO SHIP SHALL EVER HAVE MORE THEN 2 for ANY reason including Ship sales) This is enough to cover ship specific consoles and allow a few consoles into PvP for some sane variety. This Universal Console slot should have a 5 min Cool down. (meaning that yes any universal consoles with shorter cool downs in PvE will be increased to the min 5 min in PvP) This would also remove the issue of console swapping from PvP.
- Tie in the foundry by adding a "PvP Map" creation option... and allow a "Use Foundry Map" option to be used on the private match screen. (not required just a nice touch)
6) One PvP Fun Item Slot. (Ground and space)
Step Two.
- Disable Reputation system in PvP Maps.
- Add 2 new Rep slots called "PvP Rep" (more to come in a sec)
Step Three.
- Disable all Spec trees in PvP maps.
Step Four.
- Create a PvP Reputation Reward System.
- At the end of every PvP match Award a standard amount of PvP marks.
- PvP reputation would progress like any other... with Daily and hourly projects that require PvP marks to start.
PvP Reputation
Tier 1
Unlocks 2 New Ground PvP reputation options.
- Ground Fanatic - Increases PvP Marks earned by 20% in Ground PvP
- Ground Liquidation Specialist - Increase Energy Credits earned by 20% in Ground PvP
- Ground weapon project. (project unlock store items)
These items will be 100% cosmetic. They can change the look of any standard PvP gun slotted.
- Title projects. Tier 1 would unlock lower cost projects for a handful of cool ground titles.
Tier 2
Unlocks 2 new Space PvP reputation Options.
- Space Fanatic - Increases PvP Marks earned by 20% in Space PvP
- Space Liquidation Specialist - Increase Energy Credits earned by 20% in Space PvP
Store unlocks.
- Create project unlocks for 4-5 weapon mods that modify the colour of energy weapons fire. (I know we have heard CBS isn't a fan of different colours for some weapons... however you guys can sell this to them... as it is ONLY in effect while in a PvP "Space Combat Simulation" map)
- Create projects for Ship skins. Tier 2 being the start of this with an Engine project unlock. This can be an almost a 100% rehash of existing art. A project for "Borg" "Breen" "Aegis" ect skins... add new ones if you have time... however its not high priority to create a ton of new art. Simply resell the existing visuals to people wanting to sport them in PvP.
- Title projects. Tier 2 would unlock lower cost projects for a handful of cool space titles.
Tier 3
Unlocks ONE new Ground PvP reputation Option.
- Special Forces Team Leader - Increases ALL rewards earned in ground PvP 20%.
Store unlock project ground Armour and shields
Armour unlocks could allow the use of cosmetics that really already exist art wise in game like the Lobi armours ect. Shield unlocks could unlock a new quick and dirty option to create Shielding effects when hit ect.
- Store unlock project for Space Deflectors cosmetics in the store.
Tier 4
Unlocks ONE new Space PvP reputation Option.
- Wing Leader - Increases ALL rewards earned in space PvP 20%.
- Store unlock project for Space Shield cosmetics in the store.
Tier 5
Unlocks ONE new Space PvP reputation Option.
- PvP First - Allows a player with this trait equipped to choose the type of marks they are rewarded at the completion of a PvP match. (if this goes to far in the grand plan it could always be worded to allow for a choice of all but the most current Mark system)
- Unlocks Projects for Gimmick items. (these items can be added constantly adding more and more stuff to the rep)
the Gimmick items would include things like Space fireworks... perhaps a ground version.
Again it will be possible to reuse much of the games existing art. By including pvp replicas of past Party Popper effects ect. This list of gimmick items could be very quickly populated with low investment.
- Lastly IF cryptic sees value in this... a small amount of Developer time could be spent Art wise creating a Tier 5 set of Ship / Ground cosmetics specificlly designed for the PvP crowd.
- "Faction" specific Ground Uniform option projects. Unlocks here can include fatigues, battle looking KDF armours stealthy looking Romulan battle fatigues ect.
- "Faction" specific ship set with a PvP bend to it. Something that makes the ships pop and still screams PvP skin. Skins that added a cammo effect ect.
There it is... what this would achieve.
1) Mostly balanced PvP with a CORE STO feel.
2) A new Que system that could have new maps added to it with out the fear of breaking the system. (+ bonus points if you can include the foundry for private match maps which would remove "hardcore" pvp players asking for future maps at all)
3) Add a PvP reputation system as another Time grind. (one you with out power creep forcing its progression... but with some hopefully interesting rewards to entire its uptake)
4) A way for PvP players to increase the rewards they earn from PvP. With PvP rep passives. Also allows them a way to cross there PvP time back into the PvE system by allowing them to use PvP to earn other Reputation Marks.
You're wrong here. Back when Cryptic sold costumes and playable races and other sensible things, I bought stuff. But I don't want to buy master keys and get into the lottery game, or spend real money on dilithium. And ever since DR my in-game time has dropped to almost nothing. Restoring S1.2 would increase the time I spend in the game and get them more of my money.
That's the problem. There simply is nothing out there that has a flight model comparable to STO and that 2010 grind-free gameplay.
I think you are mistaken about the release schedule. Infected, Cure, Khitomer Accord and Terradome were in the game during S1.2. (The 4-piece Borg set came later though iirc.)
I don't expect them to start a second shard either, but I believe that it is still more likely to happen than all the changes you suggest. A second S1.2 shared requires a little bit of hardware and recompiling an old version of STO. What you suggest requires lots of new code.
But we both know that neither of our ideas will be implemented. If we want something, we have to do it ourselves. It has been this way with tournaments and leaderboards. And it will be the same for a properly balanced space combat game.
There was no proof that it was sustainable - the only thing we can say for certain is that this MMO no longer exists and was changed into what we have now.
Yours and mine, perhaps, but not the money they get from all the lockboxes. Is that enough?
The game frozen in its Season 1.2 state forever? Are you sure that could survive? Probably not as MMO - released as stand alone thingy that is no longer officially supported, it could probably survive like many fan-maintained games. But that can't happen, because the game uses a licensed IP.
No doubt. Both our solutions require more work then they care to give PvP.
Most developers would have bent over backwards to help you out with the leader board. Some of Cryptics competition even have people dedicated to working with third party developers. Its so hard to head out and play other games and see just how much Cryptic could do better.
No tiers were ever required for buying anything. I simply save up a few shiny things, and I can buy the shield, the deflector, or whatever else I wanted to buy. Or I could save a few more shiny things, and buy the Borg set. That was great. I was getting rewarded for shooting things, and got a bonus reward for getting the Optional. It worked, and it was enjoyable.
My Ship Builds: USS Conqueror, HMS Victorious, HMS Concord, ISS Queen Elizabeth, Black Widow III
Click here to view my DeviantArt.
Take off your nostalgia filters. STO back then was a serious grind to get to level 50. Federation side required you to supplement your leveling from story missions with doing the exploration system or PvP. Klingon side was even worse since there was only PvP or exploration missions available since Klingons didn't have any story missions until about 6 months after the game went live.
In the five years I've been playing these three players have always been my greatest, most sensible and community orientated forum goers. When they speak, I always find myself feeling reflective and .... LOL ...somewhat stupid
Thanks for the fond memories of the heydays.
PvP inherently has to be balanced to allow for competitive play.
To facilitate that you need to start from a balanced framework. Currently that doesn't exist. To make it exist there needs to be a core rebalance of the different classes.
Rebalance that, then aim for PvP balance. Then using the knowledge gleaned from PvP balance apply it to PvE and give the AI varying difficutly from ship loadout's and properly used hull/shield/damage modifiers to keep things interesting for players.
"You don't have to do something again and again and again repetitive that doesn't have much challange, that's just a general good gameplay thing."