THe signature is easily interpreted as saying that Delta Rising sucks, a project the entire STO Cryptic team worked on.
It tells every Cryptic member that if he is not very, very careful, the next time it could be a sentence made by him in such a signature.
It still doesn't say what is wrong.
When that sentence quoted in the signature was made, it was made in the context of a lot of other things. That allowed seeing it in that context and not overinterpreting it in any manner.
The signature itself however - they have no context. They are just everywhere.
---
I suppose I should make my own "positive example critique" signature. 2 or 3 things I would like to improve in STO. That's it.
Something like
"Delta Rising: Make Upgrading on Alts easier. Make gaining Specializations on Alts easier. Adjust Advanced Difficulty Queued Mission to be easier achievable."
If everoyne did something like that, it will probably be not offensive at all and instead a constant reminder of your constructive feedback.
Thank you for taking the time to read my post and reply. I'd like to comment on the emphasized portion above if you don't mind.
Our signatures may not have specifics, but our posts do. I can't speak for everyone with a sig pic, but I know I've posted several times over the years as to the specifics of what I find you ALL have done extremely well. I've also posted specifics about things that IMHO you all could be doing much, much better. Of course, I can't squeeze all that into a sig pic. I can put it into forum posts. The words I chose might not always be as sugar coated as some may like, but they are there.
Anyhoo, point taken. I appreciate the acknowledgement that respect goes both ways too. Now if you'll excuse me, I'm off to make a nicer sig pic as a show of good faith. :P
I too have created a new sig to express my feelings about what I think is important at the moment...
STO Member since February 2009. I Was A Trekkie Before It Was Cool ... Sept. 8th, 1966 ... Not To Mention Before Most Folks Around Here Were Born! Forever a STO Veteran-Minion
I meant every word. Hey, Taco takes the time to read and respond when there are a lot of folk who claim the Devs never do. That makes him ok in my book.
You and I get it. I would just hate to see the message get lost in the sarcastic other sigs.
Christian Gaming Community Fleets--Faith, Fun, and Fellowship! See the website and PM for more. :-) Proudly F2P.Signature image by gulberat. Avatar image by balsavor.deviantart.com.
I'm not sure how many times I have to say the same thing, but I really, REALLY don't mind hearing negative comments, criticisms of the game, etc. I really DO mind when those comments and criticisms are not civil or respectful. I don't only want to hear good things, or have my ego stroked. I just want that feedback to be constructive, not bilious.
People keep saying that the forum sigs are a joke, and are meant to affect change. . . but change what? The signatures say nothing of what you want. What they do, is make a cheap jab at the devs. It's clear that you don't like something, but the signatures do nothing to tell me (or anyone) what it is.
You want us to interact like adults? Great! Let's do that. Using our words. In a polite, respectful manner (on BOTH sides).
Making a passive aggressive meme is not helping anything, IMHO.
Edit: The thing with the sigs, is it isn't any one sig that's so terrible I cry myself to sleep at night. It's that the abundance and persistence of them is just grating over time. Like I said, they feel like little jabs at the whole dev team for a single comment most of us had nothing to do with. That is wearing, and after a while, makes me not want to subject myself to it anymore.
Eidt 2: For what it's worth, I'm an ESFP last I checked. . .
Well maybe you wasnt reading the forums at all, since is pretty obvios what got people upset, DELTA RISING. you want more specific? THE GRIND, the DILITHIUM SINK, the BUGS, AND GECKO telling TRIBBLE like best expansion ever when as yourself have said that devs dont even dare to show in the forum because the unrest in player base.
If was best expansion ever, ¿why devs don even want to come to talk in the forums?
If the game is healty and growing ¿why is there so much rant in the forum?
And what can players who give feedback expect from devs if the guy that come here to talk is the artist and not even a dev nor even the comunity manager.
Hmmm...I hope people will recognize that you are serious with that since all the rest of those sigs are sarcastic...?
Well crazy "brain-TRIBBLE" here ... why does everyone assume all of these "previous" Sigs are supposed to be sarcastic ... if there is no "constructive Feedback" about "what's actually wrong" with DR to back it up ??? Sure some Pics are obvious Indicators, but most of them are not ...
This whole meme wouldn't even work, if people didn't specify on what they dislike ....
Patch Notes : Resolved an Issue, where people would accidently experience Fun.
Well, there are some problems, not that great, but there is some... but Taco, i think no one in the forum, as we are almost the same people all the time has any problem with you, quite the contrary, we truly love your work and how you go lengths for us, to answer, and mostly be there for the community.
I don't want to left behind many devs that are always roaming the forums and answering what they can when they can, we all care for you guys and I, personally, think you all are doing a great job.
I meant every word. Hey, Taco takes the time to read and respond when there are a lot of folk who claim the Devs never do. That makes him ok in my book.
True, he also has nothing to do with all the things people criticise. At least I'm not seeing five threads per day about how terrible a tree he designed is. :P
I meant every word. Hey, Taco takes the time to read and respond when there are a lot of folk who claim the Devs never do. That makes him ok in my book.
I know you actually feel what you wrote in that sig but please remove it. It comes across as very sarcastic even to someone who knows what you mean.
Nobody has ever said that the signatures are jabs at the entire team.
My personal sig is a jab at the person or persons who decided to make the Delta Quadrant's patrols pay out waaaaay more XP/SP than patrols in the rest of the game.
If that person wasn't you then I'm not sure why you'd even give it a second's thought.
I think it's the medium that is betraying your intent. By making a sig, which is simply omnipresent in all of your posts, and lacking a direction at any given individual, the message comes across as being directed at everyone.
The sigs are a shotgun, not a scalpel.
The point being, it doesn't matter if you intend for it to be directed at a single individual. If that individual is someone I work with, someone I see on a daily basis, it's hard to not feel the hits, even when they aren't aimed directly at me.
Admittedly, I don't know what the scalpel would be in this case. I just don't feel that the sigs are accomplishing what you might have intended.
As for the signatures...That's kind of like a civil protest in some ways. The line 'Delta Rising is the best expansion...' is the rallying cry, and the signatures are the 'picket signs'.
Sure, I get that, and I don't disagree. However, the signatures are the equivalent of standing outside of the Cryptic office holding signs that say "This sucks!"
. . . uh. . . ok. . . WHAT sucks? Without expounding on the issue you are protesting, it comes across as protesting the everything.
You haven't actually looked at my signature have you?
I have, but your signature isn't simply stating what's wrong, it's implying that the devs are slave masters, and forcing you to do things. Your signature is imbued with emotion. It's dripping with hate, which makes it very easy to dismiss. Yes, it's clear you don't like the grind, nor the metrics, but that is hardly constructive.
Our signatures may not have specifics, but our posts do. I can't speak for everyone with a sig pic, but I know I've posted several times over the years as to the specifics of what I find you ALL have done extremely well. I've also posted specifics about things that IMHO you all could be doing much, much better. Of course, I can't squeeze all that into a sig pic. I can put it into forum posts. The words I chose might not always be as sugar coated as some may like, but they are there.
Sure, but if that's the case, didn't you just admit that the sig pic was essentially just noise? The sig did nothing to raise the issues you talk about in your posts, and does nothing to attract positive attention to said posts. . . so. . . how is that sig helping get your point across again?
What should be done to reverse the trend is that the moderators should actually enforce the forum rules and not tolerate the personal attacks on employees and remove those posters, including those using the sig, they obviously are unable to interact in adult society and should be removed from it.
1. We do enforce the forum rules, but not every post is reported to us and we obviously can't read every single post because, well, we're not paid to do it and we have personal lives outside the forums. We want a report post or ignore troll feature as much or more as you guys do.
2. We do not tolerate personal attacks on employees and we moderate those posts when we find them. However, as noted, we have to be careful not to squelch legitimate criticism. If it's blatant flaming, they get moderated. Insulting or threatening Geko, for example, since that seems to be one common thread. But that's not the same as stating an opinion that Geko makes questionable design choices, however informed that opinion may or may not be. If Geko takes responsibility for a design and players don't like it, they're still free to state that they don't like it.
3. Mods can remove the posts but not the posters. Only a PWE employee can issue an infraction and it usually takes 3-4 infractions before they get a perma-ban. They don't start issuing infractions unless a person does something really awful or they demonstrate a history of disregard for the rules. That policy hasn't changed in, well, forever.
4. Mods can't touch a forum user's profile, which is where the sig lives. So if we find a bad sig, all we can do is report it and let PWE handle it. This is as it should be. You want a non-PWE employee mucking with your forum profile?
5. It's harder to identify who and who does not need to be removed than you might think. Someone with the poor decision-making abilities to post stuff that's blatantly against the rules is not the main problem. I'm not so sure there even is one main problem.
A prevailing attitude of "I have a right to publicly state my opinions as fact, but your opinions are stupid so shut up" is a big one. Not everyone suffers from that malady, but there's enough of it going around.
My views may not represent those of Cryptic Studios or Perfect World Entertainment. You can file a "forums and website" support ticket here Link: How to PM - Twitter @STOMod_Bluegeek
I can develop the game just fine without visiting the forums.
I disagree.
Or alteast, I think you can develop the game better if you do visit the forums than you could otherwise. I think that applies doubly to those on the system teams. That comment, that perspective, is at the core of the problem.
As is perhaps taking single lines of text out of context. However some things are strict 'do not do that' when communicating with customers. A statement like that comes across as extremely condescending and dismissive even if not intended as such.
I'm not sure how many times I have to say the same thing, but I really, REALLY don't mind hearing negative comments, criticisms of the game, etc. I really DO mind when those comments and criticisms are not civil or respectful. I don't only want to hear good things, or have my ego stroked. I just want that feedback to be constructive, not bilious.
People keep saying that the forum sigs are a joke, and are meant to affect change. . . but change what? The signatures say nothing of what you want. What they do, is make a cheap jab at the devs. It's clear that you don't like something, but the signatures do nothing to tell me (or anyone) what it is.
You want us to interact like adults? Great! Let's do that. Using our words. In a polite, respectful manner (on BOTH sides).
Making a passive aggressive meme is not helping anything, IMHO.
Edit: The thing with the sigs, is it isn't any one sig that's so terrible I cry myself to sleep at night. It's that the abundance and persistence of them is just grating over time. Like I said, they feel like little jabs at the whole dev team for a single comment most of us had nothing to do with. That is wearing, and after a while, makes me not want to subject myself to it anymore.
Eidt 2: For what it's worth, I'm an ESFP last I checked. . .
I get what you're saying Taco; but honestly after hearing one of your Leads (Al Rivera - aka Captain Gekko) state the forums are mostly complaints made by players who hate change; and he often just has a game where he counts "how many posts 'til Hitler" <--- His words; you have a lead basically saying that he doesn't find Forum feedback of any use.
Given that, why would you expect anyone to discuss anything here when one of the Leads who signs off decisions just browses for Godwin'd threads/posts.
Maybe if D'Angelo or Gekko tried ways to solicit info from the players without often dismissing feedback in that manner you would get the occasional nugget of an actual discussion and not just outrage.
Hell, the last few developer blogs on the STO/Arc newsite didn't have the somewhat previously customary link entitled "discuss this on the forums" linking to an official forum thread; so it seems maybe the higher ups have decided they don't want to look at the forums any longer.
I understand in the end, it IS all about cashflow/profit, etc. as PWE IS a business; but the sudden shift to an attitude 'monetization first, fun gameplay if possible" is really starting to wear thin for a lot of players, myself included. And that's the direction I feel STO has been taking since season 8.5.
Formerly known as Armsman from June 2008 to June 20, 2012 PWE ARC Drone says: "Your STO forum community as you have known it is ended...Display names are irrelevant...Any further sense of community is irrelevant...Resistance is futile...You will be assimilated..."
. . . uh. . . ok. . . WHAT sucks? Without expounding on the issue you are protesting, it comes across as protesting the everything.
There are millions of post about that and not a single one of them even got an answerd, but the contrary, each step cryptic has made, was the contrary that we asked for.
So, plz, dont give us the "we need better feedback" beacose we went that road and yet, nothing ever has came, not even a "thank you".
Dont get me wrong, I like you. You are a good dev and it seems that also a good guy, but the company that you work, is not inocent here, in fact, they started this.
I think it's the medium that is betraying your intent. By making a sig, which is simply omnipresent in all of your posts, and lacking a direction at any given individual, the message comes across as being directed at everyone.
The sigs are a shotgun, not a scalpel.
The point being, it doesn't matter if you intend for it to be directed at a single individual. If that individual is someone I work with, someone I see on a daily basis, it's hard to not feel the hits, even when they aren't aimed directly at me.
Admittedly, I don't know what the scalpel would be in this case. I just don't feel that the sigs are accomplishing what you might have intended.
Sure, I get that, and I don't disagree. However, the signatures are the equivalent of standing outside of the Cryptic office holding signs that say "This sucks!"
. . . uh. . . ok. . . WHAT sucks? Without expounding on the issue you are protesting, it comes across as protesting the everything.
Precisely.
I have, but your signature isn't simply stating what's wrong, it's implying that the devs are slave masters, and forcing you to do things. Your signature is imbued with emotion. It's dripping with hate, which makes it very easy to dismiss. Yes, it's clear you don't like the grind, nor the metrics, but that is hardly constructive.
Precisely.
I can develop the game just fine without visiting the forums.
Sure, but if that's the case, didn't you just admit that the sig pic was essentially just noise? The sig did nothing to raise the issues you talk about in your posts, and does nothing to attract positive attention to said posts. . . so. . . how is that sig helping get your point across again?
Funny, cuz that's essentially what BetaBorg just told me . . .
I wholeheartedly agree with everything that Taco stated in this post. He said it perfectly so that no one can misunderstand him.
I get what you're saying Taco; but honestly after hearing one of your Leads (Al Rivera - aka Captain Gekko) state the forums are mostly complaints made by players who hate change; and he often just has a game where he counts "how many posts 'til Hitler" <--- His words; you have a lead basically saying that he doesn't find Forum feedback of any use.
Given that, why would you expect anyone to discuss anything here when one of the Leads who signs off decisions just browses for Godwin'd threads/posts.
Maybe if D'Angelo or Gekko tried ways to solicit info from the players without often dismissing feedback in that manner you would get the occasional nugget of an actual discussion and not just outrage.
Hell, the last few developer blogs on the STO/Arc newsite didn't have the somewhat previously customary link entitled "discuss this on the forums" linking to an official forum thread; so it seems maybe the higher ups have decided they don't want to look at the forums any longer.
I understand in the end, it IS all about cashflow/profit, etc. as PWE IS a business; but the sudden shift to an attitude 'monetization first, fun gameplay if possible" is really starting to wear thin for a lot of players, myself included. And that's the direction I feel STO has been taking since season 8.5.
Judging by Cryptics attitude lately this is indeed how it is being seen. Well guys, you may not like the bashing, the trolling or whatever else it is that itches you, but simply leaving the forum is not very professional. While I understand that Dev's may not frequent some places that much anymore I have absolutely no understanding for your communication team not doing what they're being paid by us to do: Communicate with us! Not posting news into the Galactic News network anymore is just the latest example of how forsaken this place is. At least have the guts to COMMUNICATE a change in communication style. And on that note, remember that it is not possible not to communicate. But you may choose how you do it.
So man up, get your act together, and face us*. This will earn you much more respect than just lying low. Besides:
*rofl.....as if writing news would even qualify as such......ridiculous attitude
I can develop the game just fine without visiting the forums.
See and that's the main problem. You don't care the wishes of us customers. What else medium should we use in order to make suggestions? There wouldn't be so many problems if you would simply listen to us. But by not reading the forums as an essential communication hub for our advices, wishes etc. and principally developing the game "how you like it", you basically ignore progress.
I think this statement was so obviously unnecessary and condescending, but easily explains how most of you Dev's truely think.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Originally Posted by tacofangs I can develop the game just fine without visiting the forums.
I think it's the medium that is betraying your intent. By making a sig, which is simply omnipresent in all of your posts, and lacking a direction at any given individual, the message comes across as being directed at everyone.
The sigs are a shotgun, not a scalpel.
The point being, it doesn't matter if you intend for it to be directed at a single individual. If that individual is someone I work with, someone I see on a daily basis, it's hard to not feel the hits, even when they aren't aimed directly at me.
I'm confused ... isn't it kind of obvious it's directed at the one person who actually said it ... so it is ? But isn't the real problem with that individual you're seeing on a daily basis, then ?
Sure, I get that, and I don't disagree. However, the signatures are the equivalent of standing outside of the Cryptic office holding signs that say "This sucks!"
. . . uh. . . ok. . . WHAT sucks? Without expounding on the issue you are protesting, it comes across as protesting the everything.
There is plenty of evidence (even within the last 1-2 pages of this Thread) to suggest otherwise ... so what's your point ?
I can develop the game just fine without visiting the forums.
You probably can, people interested in playing what you develop is another matter, though ... this is not intended to be an complaint about what you're developing ... I don't think you're "the problem" here (on the contrary) .... I just don't think this statement makes much sense ... you know "Shotgun", you just fired a full broadside ...
Patch Notes : Resolved an Issue, where people would accidently experience Fun.
Sure, I get that, and I don't disagree. However, the signatures are the equivalent of standing outside of the Cryptic office holding signs that say "This sucks!"
. . . uh. . . ok. . . WHAT sucks? Without expounding on the issue you are protesting, it comes across as protesting the everything.
There has been, for the entire history of this forum, a reluctance by ANYONE from cryptic, to discuss "the issues."
This dates back even further than the old "Ask Cryptic" series, but for the moment, I'll focus on that. The Ask Cryptic series (for the recently joined) was a forum thread where players could post questions, then at the end of the month, the EP would take a selection of questions and answer them.
Of course, the tough topics were never chosen. The hard hitting questions were never answered. It was fluff / substance as the driving motive of the series.
You want to know where this buildup of discontent comes from? Look back at every post over the last 5 years that ever asked a tough question, or focused on a less than desirable change to the game. And then, see if in those posts the players were responded to, or their concerns addressed.
You'll find your answers in history Mr. Taco, and history is not on yours or Cryptic's side in this.
MMOs are a joint venture. You guys own the game, develop it, and put it out. But you need us to play it, as much as we need you to make it. But over the last 5 years, the relationship has shifted to favor the Cryptic side more and more, and that's bound to irritate a good many people.
The people you rely on to make $$$.
"You shoot him, I shoot you, I leave both your bodies here and go out for a late night snack.
I'm thinking maybe pancakes." ~ John Casey
I'm not sure how many times I have to say the same thing, but I really, REALLY don't mind hearing negative comments, criticisms of the game, etc. I really DO mind when those comments and criticisms are not civil or respectful. I don't only want to hear good things, or have my ego stroked. I just want that feedback to be constructive, not bilious.
People keep saying that the forum sigs are a joke, and are meant to affect change. . . but change what? The signatures say nothing of what you want. What they do, is make a cheap jab at the devs. It's clear that you don't like something, but the signatures do nothing to tell me (or anyone) what it is.
You want us to interact like adults? Great! Let's do that. Using our words. In a polite, respectful manner (on BOTH sides).
Making a passive aggressive meme is not helping anything, IMHO.
Edit: The thing with the sigs, is it isn't any one sig that's so terrible I cry myself to sleep at night. It's that the abundance persistence of them is just grating over time. Like I said, they feel like little jabs at the whole dev team for a single comment most of us had nothing to do with. That is wearing, and after a while, makes me not want to subject myself to it anymore.
Eidt 2: For what it's worth, I'm an ESFP last I checked. . .
I will change my sig tonight out of respect for you and because you have politely asked for it to be removed. That being said, I have explicitly stated in 4-5 different threads that dilithium rewards need to be improved for stf's, normal included. This has been one of the main requests from many, many different players.
Another problem is how disjointed the delta storyline feels because the missions don't give enough experience to immediately progress to the next story. We shouldn't have to do 10-15 side missions just to get to the next delta story mission.
3rd of all, reduce the hp of npc baddies in stf's but keep elite as it is now and improve the AI of the enemies. Most players want smarter enemies, not bullet sponges.
Fourth of all, throw us a bone on any sort of upcoming klingon/romulan content. At least tell us your working on something.
5th of all, improve communication with the playerbase. I'm looking at you, Smirk, yes. You need to more actively communicate with the playerbase with respect to bugs, communicate those bugs to the dev team, and communicate any delays in addressing said bugs to the playerbase on the forums in a timely manner.
That is all for now. Thank you for engaging with us Taco.
I think it's the medium that is betraying your intent. By making a sig, which is simply omnipresent in all of your posts, and lacking a direction at any given individual, the message comes across as being directed at everyone.
The sigs are a shotgun, not a scalpel.
The point being, it doesn't matter if you intend for it to be directed at a single individual. If that individual is someone I work with, someone I see on a daily basis, it's hard to not feel the hits, even when they aren't aimed directly at me.
Admittedly, I don't know what the scalpel would be in this case. I just don't feel that the sigs are accomplishing what you might have intended.
Sure, I get that, and I don't disagree. However, the signatures are the equivalent of standing outside of the Cryptic office holding signs that say "This sucks!"
. . . uh. . . ok. . . WHAT sucks? Without expounding on the issue you are protesting, it comes across as protesting the everything.
I have, but your signature isn't simply stating what's wrong, it's implying that the devs are slave masters, and forcing you to do things. Your signature is imbued with emotion. It's dripping with hate, which makes it very easy to dismiss. Yes, it's clear you don't like the grind, nor the metrics, but that is hardly constructive.
Maybe you missed the part where several others have stated in this very thread that WE have mentioned the problems with the game and have been ignored. As for myself, (imbuled with emotion? I think not) there is no emotion behind it at all. It a simple message that states what WE have been trying to tell you and the team you work with for several years about the game. Sure, it comes off as sarcastic, but it does give the message that DR sucks. Why does it suck? Look at all the constructive criticism behind the angry posters. Actually log onto the game and look at the ques. Play the game and see what we see. We are being ignored my friend.
These forums, eh? Moot point. Just because players on the forums are dissatisfied, that doesn't mean there are significant numbers of players dissatisfied.
And I seriously hope you don't take things offensively. I do not try to come off as offensive to you or the team. I just have a hard time trying to understand why you are upset with continuous sigs that you think are shotgunned at you or your team when you have an entire player-base that has been upset for a good while now. It doesn't make sense to me.
These forums, eh? Moot point. Just because players on the forums are dissatisfied, that doesn't mean there are significant numbers of players dissatisfied.
Steam log in numbers are also a good indicator, they are getting close to 50% the pre-DR log in values and are continuing to slide
3. Mods can remove the posts but not the posters. Only a PWE employee can issue an infraction and it usually takes 3-4 infractions before they get a perma-ban. They don't start issuing infractions unless a person does something really awful or they demonstrate a history of disregard for the rules. That policy hasn't changed in, well, forever.
4. Mods can't touch a forum user's profile, which is where the sig lives. So if we find a bad sig, all we can do is report it and let PWE handle it. This is as it should be. You want a non-PWE employee mucking with your forum profile?
A kind suggestion is to let people know the reason why signatures/avatars are being removed so we can change them. I have submitted tickets about it already and not discussing policies just asking for clarification for future reference.
I'm not sure how many times I have to say the same thing, but I really, REALLY don't mind hearing negative comments, criticisms of the game, etc. I really DO mind when those comments and criticisms are not civil or respectful. I don't only want to hear good things, or have my ego stroked. I just want that feedback to be constructive, not bilious.
People keep saying that the forum sigs are a joke, and are meant to affect change. . . but change what? The signatures say nothing of what you want. What they do, is make a cheap jab at the devs. It's clear that you don't like something, but the signatures do nothing to tell me (or anyone) what it is.
You want us to interact like adults? Great! Let's do that. Using our words. In a polite, respectful manner (on BOTH sides).
Making a passive aggressive meme is not helping anything, IMHO.
Edit: The thing with the sigs, is it isn't any one sig that's so terrible I cry myself to sleep at night. It's that the abundance and persistence of them is just grating over time. Like I said, they feel like little jabs at the whole dev team for a single comment most of us had nothing to do with. That is wearing, and after a while, makes me not want to subject myself to it anymore.
Eidt 2: For what it's worth, I'm an ESFP last I checked. . .
There is a simple solution. Many of us posted ideas multiple times on how you could improve the system while maintaining a decent monetization.
Maybe they didn't work for Cryptic. Ok.
As for the signatures, well that's a even simpler solution.
During a recent podcast, I made a couple of assertions off the top of my head which may have come across as being disconnected to what's happening in the game.
First - at the time, I was sure they were true in principle. Please let me revise those comments.
1.) It does take more that 2 hours of playtime to increase an item from one rank to another. in truth we don't have an accurate number because there are so many elements, it can vary from player to player, item to item. Lower rank items yes, VR elite items no. But it's reasonable to assume the higher the quality of the item, the more it will cost.
2.) Yes, it's costs more than 5000 dil to raise an item to mark XIV. I got mixed up with a previous test I ran on a Mark II item. As I have already said, we wanted this process to take players time.
Our goal was to have some sort of quotable meric - like it taking X hours to raise one item to XIV. I think we're close to achieving that, and in the rush to judgement on our release we lost sight of providing the players with some form of measurable goal.
It didn't help that players rushed to see the total costs. That was very off-putting for many of us. But at the end of the day the spreadsheets, calculators and even the infographic did show a picture that it's going to take a dedicated player a lot of time to complete.
That was intentional.
3.) As for 'this is the best ______'. From a financial standpoint, the game is very successful and we are proud of that. Many of you feel that monetization is somehow not part of the F2P model. Here we disagree. For STO to continue we need not just to be profitable - but growing in terms of sales. If that means a smaller player base, that is a price we're very willing to pay.
4.) Reporting bugs with the queues. Ok, you got me there.
Our goal as a company and as the caretakers of an incredible IP is to make sure that continues to thrive for years to come.
We do read your posts, and we will strive to do better. We work and look forward a future with you as our customers.
I'm not sure how many times I have to say the same thing, but I really, REALLY don't mind hearing negative comments, criticisms of the game, etc. I really DO mind when those comments and criticisms are not civil or respectful. I don't only want to hear good things, or have my ego stroked. I just want that feedback to be constructive, not bilious.
Really? Then where are the forum policy requirements AND the moderators to enforce it? Also, you just have to know that, considering the nature of the medium, "civility" and "respect" are rare commodities indeed.
From me to you Taco: While civility is a given for me unless another approach is warranted, respect is earned in real-time. If you want my respect all you have to do is get in here and supply us with some insights on what's happening behind the curtain, listen to carefully posed complaints and respond, and most of all ignore the fools.
I've found my enjoyment of the game went up when I took a long leave of absence from the boards. I don't think both sides are without blame.
There could be a better way of communicating with the players. Instead of just blog posts about upcoming changes to the game...explain the changes...why they change was being made. This players don't misinterpret why a change is being made...or why a change isn't being made.
The other side of the coin is we as players have to be patient...changes don't happen over night...and stop latching onto every other world the dev team says to throw it back at them (Like the one poster who listened to a pod cast where someone clearly said it's not a copy and paste job in relation to T6 ships and went on a crusade saying it was a copy and past job and something about animations).
Communication isn't the answer...BETTER communication is the answer. It's in everyone's best interests to communicate better.
Your pain runs deep.
Let us explore it... together. Each man hides a secret pain. It must be exposed and reckoned with. It must be dragged from the darkness and forced into the light. Share your pain. Share your pain with me... and gain strength from the sharing.
Steam log in numbers are also a good indicator, they are getting close to 50% the pre-DR log in values and are continuing to slide
Sorry but this is 1 of 3 ways to login to STO and the figures on Steam means nothing really its like comparing 1 news network shown on 3 different mediums but 1shows low figures does not mean the news network is failing it just means that people chose to use only 1 or 2 ways to see it. ( if that makes sense )
There is only one way to find out if STO is failing or not and that's to get figures from Cryptic themselves and that prob won't happen
Comments
I too have created a new sig to express my feelings about what I think is important at the moment...
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Forever a STO Veteran-Minion
You and I get it. I would just hate to see the message get lost in the sarcastic other sigs.
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Well maybe you wasnt reading the forums at all, since is pretty obvios what got people upset, DELTA RISING. you want more specific? THE GRIND, the DILITHIUM SINK, the BUGS, AND GECKO telling TRIBBLE like best expansion ever when as yourself have said that devs dont even dare to show in the forum because the unrest in player base.
If was best expansion ever, ¿why devs don even want to come to talk in the forums?
If the game is healty and growing ¿why is there so much rant in the forum?
And what can players who give feedback expect from devs if the guy that come here to talk is the artist and not even a dev nor even the comunity manager.
GG Cryptic.
dnirg eht nioj
Well crazy "brain-TRIBBLE" here ... why does everyone assume all of these "previous" Sigs are supposed to be sarcastic ... if there is no "constructive Feedback" about "what's actually wrong" with DR to back it up ??? Sure some Pics are obvious Indicators, but most of them are not ...
This whole meme wouldn't even work, if people didn't specify on what they dislike ....
I don't want to left behind many devs that are always roaming the forums and answering what they can when they can, we all care for you guys and I, personally, think you all are doing a great job.
True, he also has nothing to do with all the things people criticise. At least I'm not seeing five threads per day about how terrible a tree he designed is. :P
I know you actually feel what you wrote in that sig but please remove it. It comes across as very sarcastic even to someone who knows what you mean.
I think it's the medium that is betraying your intent. By making a sig, which is simply omnipresent in all of your posts, and lacking a direction at any given individual, the message comes across as being directed at everyone.
The sigs are a shotgun, not a scalpel.
The point being, it doesn't matter if you intend for it to be directed at a single individual. If that individual is someone I work with, someone I see on a daily basis, it's hard to not feel the hits, even when they aren't aimed directly at me.
Admittedly, I don't know what the scalpel would be in this case. I just don't feel that the sigs are accomplishing what you might have intended.
Sure, I get that, and I don't disagree. However, the signatures are the equivalent of standing outside of the Cryptic office holding signs that say "This sucks!"
. . . uh. . . ok. . . WHAT sucks? Without expounding on the issue you are protesting, it comes across as protesting the everything.
Precisely.
I have, but your signature isn't simply stating what's wrong, it's implying that the devs are slave masters, and forcing you to do things. Your signature is imbued with emotion. It's dripping with hate, which makes it very easy to dismiss. Yes, it's clear you don't like the grind, nor the metrics, but that is hardly constructive.
Precisely.
I can develop the game just fine without visiting the forums.
Sure, but if that's the case, didn't you just admit that the sig pic was essentially just noise? The sig did nothing to raise the issues you talk about in your posts, and does nothing to attract positive attention to said posts. . . so. . . how is that sig helping get your point across again?
Funny, cuz that's essentially what BetaBorg just told me . . .
1. We do enforce the forum rules, but not every post is reported to us and we obviously can't read every single post because, well, we're not paid to do it and we have personal lives outside the forums. We want a report post or ignore troll feature as much or more as you guys do.
2. We do not tolerate personal attacks on employees and we moderate those posts when we find them. However, as noted, we have to be careful not to squelch legitimate criticism. If it's blatant flaming, they get moderated. Insulting or threatening Geko, for example, since that seems to be one common thread. But that's not the same as stating an opinion that Geko makes questionable design choices, however informed that opinion may or may not be. If Geko takes responsibility for a design and players don't like it, they're still free to state that they don't like it.
3. Mods can remove the posts but not the posters. Only a PWE employee can issue an infraction and it usually takes 3-4 infractions before they get a perma-ban. They don't start issuing infractions unless a person does something really awful or they demonstrate a history of disregard for the rules. That policy hasn't changed in, well, forever.
4. Mods can't touch a forum user's profile, which is where the sig lives. So if we find a bad sig, all we can do is report it and let PWE handle it. This is as it should be. You want a non-PWE employee mucking with your forum profile?
5. It's harder to identify who and who does not need to be removed than you might think. Someone with the poor decision-making abilities to post stuff that's blatantly against the rules is not the main problem. I'm not so sure there even is one main problem.
A prevailing attitude of "I have a right to publicly state my opinions as fact, but your opinions are stupid so shut up" is a big one. Not everyone suffers from that malady, but there's enough of it going around.
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I disagree.
Or alteast, I think you can develop the game better if you do visit the forums than you could otherwise. I think that applies doubly to those on the system teams. That comment, that perspective, is at the core of the problem.
As is perhaps taking single lines of text out of context. However some things are strict 'do not do that' when communicating with customers. A statement like that comes across as extremely condescending and dismissive even if not intended as such.
I get what you're saying Taco; but honestly after hearing one of your Leads (Al Rivera - aka Captain Gekko) state the forums are mostly complaints made by players who hate change; and he often just has a game where he counts "how many posts 'til Hitler" <--- His words; you have a lead basically saying that he doesn't find Forum feedback of any use.
Given that, why would you expect anyone to discuss anything here when one of the Leads who signs off decisions just browses for Godwin'd threads/posts.
Maybe if D'Angelo or Gekko tried ways to solicit info from the players without often dismissing feedback in that manner you would get the occasional nugget of an actual discussion and not just outrage.
Hell, the last few developer blogs on the STO/Arc newsite didn't have the somewhat previously customary link entitled "discuss this on the forums" linking to an official forum thread; so it seems maybe the higher ups have decided they don't want to look at the forums any longer.
I understand in the end, it IS all about cashflow/profit, etc. as PWE IS a business; but the sudden shift to an attitude 'monetization first, fun gameplay if possible" is really starting to wear thin for a lot of players, myself included. And that's the direction I feel STO has been taking since season 8.5.
PWE ARC Drone says: "Your STO forum community as you have known it is ended...Display names are irrelevant...Any further sense of community is irrelevant...Resistance is futile...You will be assimilated..."
There are millions of post about that and not a single one of them even got an answerd, but the contrary, each step cryptic has made, was the contrary that we asked for.
So, plz, dont give us the "we need better feedback" beacose we went that road and yet, nothing ever has came, not even a "thank you".
Dont get me wrong, I like you. You are a good dev and it seems that also a good guy, but the company that you work, is not inocent here, in fact, they started this.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Significant number of players do not love Delta Rising, you say? You have verifiable proof on that?
Unless they only look at signatures, they surely couldn't have missed the feedback put into words.
I think I have a new sigline.
And you hit the nail..
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
In Cryptics defense, yes, they are trying to communicate more but I don't think that (it should) include responding to every challenge offered in the forums.
I tend to look outside the forums at this stage. I get more timely interaction over on Reddit without the flames.
See and that's the main problem. You don't care the wishes of us customers. What else medium should we use in order to make suggestions? There wouldn't be so many problems if you would simply listen to us. But by not reading the forums as an essential communication hub for our advices, wishes etc. and principally developing the game "how you like it", you basically ignore progress.
I think this statement was so obviously unnecessary and condescending, but easily explains how most of you Dev's truely think.
I'm confused ... isn't it kind of obvious it's directed at the one person who actually said it ... so it is ? But isn't the real problem with that individual you're seeing on a daily basis, then ?
There is plenty of evidence (even within the last 1-2 pages of this Thread) to suggest otherwise ... so what's your point ?
You probably can, people interested in playing what you develop is another matter, though ... this is not intended to be an complaint about what you're developing ... I don't think you're "the problem" here (on the contrary) .... I just don't think this statement makes much sense ... you know "Shotgun", you just fired a full broadside ...
There has been, for the entire history of this forum, a reluctance by ANYONE from cryptic, to discuss "the issues."
This dates back even further than the old "Ask Cryptic" series, but for the moment, I'll focus on that. The Ask Cryptic series (for the recently joined) was a forum thread where players could post questions, then at the end of the month, the EP would take a selection of questions and answer them.
Of course, the tough topics were never chosen. The hard hitting questions were never answered. It was fluff / substance as the driving motive of the series.
You want to know where this buildup of discontent comes from? Look back at every post over the last 5 years that ever asked a tough question, or focused on a less than desirable change to the game. And then, see if in those posts the players were responded to, or their concerns addressed.
You'll find your answers in history Mr. Taco, and history is not on yours or Cryptic's side in this.
MMOs are a joint venture. You guys own the game, develop it, and put it out. But you need us to play it, as much as we need you to make it. But over the last 5 years, the relationship has shifted to favor the Cryptic side more and more, and that's bound to irritate a good many people.
The people you rely on to make $$$.
"You shoot him, I shoot you, I leave both your bodies here and go out for a late night snack.
I'm thinking maybe pancakes." ~ John Casey
I will change my sig tonight out of respect for you and because you have politely asked for it to be removed. That being said, I have explicitly stated in 4-5 different threads that dilithium rewards need to be improved for stf's, normal included. This has been one of the main requests from many, many different players.
Another problem is how disjointed the delta storyline feels because the missions don't give enough experience to immediately progress to the next story. We shouldn't have to do 10-15 side missions just to get to the next delta story mission.
3rd of all, reduce the hp of npc baddies in stf's but keep elite as it is now and improve the AI of the enemies. Most players want smarter enemies, not bullet sponges.
Fourth of all, throw us a bone on any sort of upcoming klingon/romulan content. At least tell us your working on something.
5th of all, improve communication with the playerbase. I'm looking at you, Smirk, yes. You need to more actively communicate with the playerbase with respect to bugs, communicate those bugs to the dev team, and communicate any delays in addressing said bugs to the playerbase on the forums in a timely manner.
That is all for now. Thank you for engaging with us Taco.
Maybe you missed the part where several others have stated in this very thread that WE have mentioned the problems with the game and have been ignored. As for myself, (imbuled with emotion? I think not) there is no emotion behind it at all. It a simple message that states what WE have been trying to tell you and the team you work with for several years about the game. Sure, it comes off as sarcastic, but it does give the message that DR sucks. Why does it suck? Look at all the constructive criticism behind the angry posters. Actually log onto the game and look at the ques. Play the game and see what we see. We are being ignored my friend.
Steam log in numbers are also a good indicator, they are getting close to 50% the pre-DR log in values and are continuing to slide
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Would you please clarify point 3? Does it take 20 points or 3-4 points? As per:
http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/announcement.php?f=128&a=51
It says takes 20.
A kind suggestion is to let people know the reason why signatures/avatars are being removed so we can change them. I have submitted tickets about it already and not discussing policies just asking for clarification for future reference.
Thanks
There is a simple solution. Many of us posted ideas multiple times on how you could improve the system while maintaining a decent monetization.
Maybe they didn't work for Cryptic. Ok.
As for the signatures, well that's a even simpler solution.
Really? Then where are the forum policy requirements AND the moderators to enforce it? Also, you just have to know that, considering the nature of the medium, "civility" and "respect" are rare commodities indeed.
From me to you Taco: While civility is a given for me unless another approach is warranted, respect is earned in real-time. If you want my respect all you have to do is get in here and supply us with some insights on what's happening behind the curtain, listen to carefully posed complaints and respond, and most of all ignore the fools.
There could be a better way of communicating with the players. Instead of just blog posts about upcoming changes to the game...explain the changes...why they change was being made. This players don't misinterpret why a change is being made...or why a change isn't being made.
The other side of the coin is we as players have to be patient...changes don't happen over night...and stop latching onto every other world the dev team says to throw it back at them (Like the one poster who listened to a pod cast where someone clearly said it's not a copy and paste job in relation to T6 ships and went on a crusade saying it was a copy and past job and something about animations).
Communication isn't the answer...BETTER communication is the answer. It's in everyone's best interests to communicate better.
Let us explore it... together. Each man hides a secret pain. It must be exposed and reckoned with. It must be dragged from the darkness and forced into the light. Share your pain. Share your pain with me... and gain strength from the sharing.
Sorry but this is 1 of 3 ways to login to STO and the figures on Steam means nothing really its like comparing 1 news network shown on 3 different mediums but 1shows low figures does not mean the news network is failing it just means that people chose to use only 1 or 2 ways to see it. ( if that makes sense )
There is only one way to find out if STO is failing or not and that's to get figures from Cryptic themselves and that prob won't happen