Where D&D stuff comes into play they are out gunned and out- just about anything you can think of because of the fact that they only use the dungeon aspect of mmorpg gaming. I keep using Gw2 as an example because thats the game I'm involved in since I've put sto on the back burner (most likely forever).
I agree with you in regard to the Western Market. One thought on what is happening with the privatization though is that it is really am move to take PWE back to the Chinese Exchange. (with it only really being a private company on paper for a short time) If that is the way it shakes out I think it would be telling as to what the Chairman is thinking. I have a feeling there thinking the western market can wait... they may see this as a good time to shore up the home front if you will.
In China D&D is still a huge thing... its a different culture. There mad for the Free to Play style games and there made for Fantasy. One of PWE other similer games Swordsman is even based on the Chinese Fantasy novel "The Smiling, Proud Wanderer".
I now its hard for us to grasp it cause we have mostly all moved on from the D&D stuff in the West... but in China when D&D online got published by Shanda it was a big deal. It was that same year that PWE snagged Cryptic complete with a D&D licence. We know now they had / have big plans for that IP. Scoring the first MMO to launch on Xbox is a pretty big thing... that its going to launch first in the Chinese market is also big. PWE has put a lot of back room work and $$$ into getting those deals inked. I have no doubt Cryptic is under CRAZY pressure to hit there timelines on the Xbox conversions and perhaps goals we haven't heard about yet officially like PlayStation ports ect. I think looking at games like NeverWinter and Swordsman it is clear PWE has been thinking about how to move the game style of Grind Free to Play fantasy game they know well into a mass market boom at home. If the Xbox sells well I think you can expect neverwinter will make a killing in China. I think it will be interesting if it goes well... I bet if it does before 2016 ends we see things like Swordsman Xbox / PS Free to play launches and who knows what else. I think consoles may be the way they go instead of mobile. It sure does make a lot more sense for them.
You might not like the recent addition of content, but it is still new added content. Games in maintenance mode do not receive that.
You can define the term how ever you like. If your definition is strict do nothing but server resets and the odd bug sweep... sure fine you win its not in in maintenance mode. lol
Really though I stand by my use of the term. The game has no full time developers. It has developer time blocked off when Cryptic has time, anything they have done for almost 2 years now has leaned heavily on old material. (be it ship designs from Prepetual... or the reuse of old lightwave models for a certain lockbox ship that ended up backwards lol) Don't get me wrong some of what they have done has been good.. imo (and I'm not alone) most of it is whipped out, not tested very well, and in most cases buggy.
So if I am Doomy McDoom cause I am smart enough to know Cryptic and PWE have bigger fish to fry then trying to make big changes to STO for little to no gain, so be it. If you like the game keep playing... I am sure we have a few years at least of the same same, so if you find that fun there is no doom intended.
Myself I think there all barking up the wrong tree... there is some $ in mobile gaming, I believe that it won't last long term or continue to grow in a huge way.
I agree. Investors (particularly the short term kind) tend to be trend chasers. Whereas long term sound business practices often involve niche fortifying.
The trend (particularly if you don't follow companies in detail) is going to say that travel agents are obsolete. It's a dwindling market in terms of size and if you had to have a broad rule, investing in travel agencies would be a bad broad rule.
However, at the particular, an individual company can benefit hugely by being one of the last people operating in a very mature market. Investing in travel agencies and vacation planners in general is a weak move. But even if the market for that is shrinking? in 20, 30 years there will probably still be a few travel agencies. And they will be able to demand a premium price for their product and even though the services may shift, that individual travel agency may be a great individual company to invest in because they have few competitors, the market in unappealing for new entrants, and they specialize in catering to a select group of people. It may be travel agents for the rich, travel planning for the blind or disabled, medical tourism travel planning, etc.
PWE doesn't seem as well suited to mobile. They may get a jump into that as tablets hit the point where they can run STO style games using the existing engines. 5-10 years and I can see Cryptic Engine games working on tablets with the main need being touch-responsive UI and controls that are designed for touch. But I think tablets and phones catching up with PWE and Cryptic's game engines is going to be a better entrypoint into mobile for them than copying Zynga right now.
You can define the term how ever you like. If your definition is strict do nothing but server resets and the odd bug sweep... sure fine you win its not in in maintenance mode. lol
Really though I stand by my use of the term. The game has no full time developers. It has developer time blocked off when Cryptic has time, anything they have done for almost 2 years now has leaned heavily on old material. (be it ship designs from Prepetual... or the reuse of old lightwave models for a certain lockbox ship that ended up backwards lol) Don't get me wrong some of what they have done has been good.. imo (and I'm not alone) most of it is whipped out, not tested very well, and in most cases buggy.
So if I am Doomy McDoom cause I am smart enough to know Cryptic and PWE have bigger fish to fry then trying to make big changes to STO for little to no gain, so be it. If you like the game keep playing... I am sure we have a few years at least of the same same, so if you find that fun there is no doom intended.
In fact I enjoy the game quite a bit and do intend to continue playing. And though you may stand buy it, your usage of the term "maintenance mode" is still incorrect. It's far from being stuck in that dreary fate. Last I checked we just had an expansion that increased the level cap and added new story missions, endgame, and so forth, after all. To put this in perspective, CO's playerbase only wishes they got close to half of that.... it hasn't gotten a new zone since its first year.
PWE doesn't seem as well suited to mobile. They may get a jump into that as tablets hit the point where they can run STO style games using the existing engines. 5-10 years and I can see Cryptic Engine games working on tablets with the main need being touch-responsive UI and controls that are designed for touch. But I think tablets and phones catching up with PWE and Cryptic's game engines is going to be a better entrypoint into mobile for them than copying Zynga right now.
The travel agent point is a good one. There is always the few survive those sorts of turn downs and end up being positioned to go higher end and make more Profit... so you end up with companies that are smaller but turning out larger profits. I used to work in the fastener business at one point and that is what happened with NA manufacturing. As more and more of the high volume low profit stuff went overseas, the few smart companies that positioned themselves properly transitioned to specializing in specialty product. A handful of good companies ended up being smaller with fewer workers... but the few that they had where high skill high pay, and the product they turn out is high profit. In a few cases the companies did get smaller, but there actual profit $ went up.
Not that I can see PWE going boutique... lol Still I would say they would be wise to double down on what they do well and try to move out on as many platforms as they can. When the time comes where hardware for the mobile end of things the landscape could look 100% different. The hard ware will be different heck even the software could be different... and you never know when the next big piece of kit could hit. Perhaps Sony releases some Vita/phone hybrid that sells like first gen iPods. (could happen lol).
I agree with you completely anyway... mobile is a bad fit for them. Its also a suckers game right now. I mean with 20-50k or by simply having lots of time and being talented a couple people right now could make the next big Mobile game. Its all fad based... and its hard for a company to turn that stuff out. Seeing as you mentioned them even Zynga who does nothing else is having issues right now. To many companies in the market... and just way to easy to jump into it... and almost impossible to predict what will blow up and be a hit.
By porting the Cryptic engine I think PWE is positioning themselves well. How knows Cryptic may even have a Android port of there engine already working in a limited way... waiting for the hardware to get there. I would also imagine Beijing Perfect World is also working on porting Swordsman or at least there own engine to do much the same thing.
Thinking about it Cryptic has always been known as a company that could speed develop MMOs. They are or at least where known as the cookie cutter MMO company. Combine that with a Cryptic engine that has now been ported to Xbox... and perhaps PS and even Android possibly. I could see PWE snapping up rights to a bunch of Chinese based Fantasy IPs. Swordsman translated not to bad in the west... its possible there planning to use there tech and some of there know how to floow the Asian Console Free to Play market with Cookie Cutter Style games. lol
Any stats on how the xbox port of NW is actually doing in China?
Haven't seen anything yet. Not sure we will either. They just launched End of Sept / Nov... and by Q1 Reporting they could be private already. Unless Microsoft releases some numbers or something.
In fact I enjoy the game quite a bit and do intend to continue playing. And though you may stand buy it, your usage of the term "maintenance mode" is still incorrect. It's far from being stuck in that dreary fate. Last I checked we just had an expansion that increased the level cap and added new story missions, endgame, and so forth, after all. To put this in perspective, CO's playerbase only wishes they got close to half of that.... it hasn't gotten a new zone since its first year.
But, wah wah, Neverwinter and dino-lasers, right?
Your right STO has gotten much more then CO... its a few years newer. So you know what we have to look forward to.
I think your also reading into what I have said still. I am not wah wahing Neverwinter.
Its not my cup of tea... but I wish Cryptic well with it. I even hope there Xbox port and Chinese launch go well. As much as I rag on some of the Cryptic folks and wish STOs direction was different. I don't hate them. I wouldn't have spent 4+ years playing one of there games if I hated it or them.
As far as general forum displeasure with the game are you really shocked. This is a game based on the Star Trek IP that has in more then a few ways found ways to annoy trek fans. Trek fans are well known to be pretty set in there ways. I am one person that in fact liked the Voth episodes of Voyager... I thought the idea was a bit over the top camp style Sci Fi, and for that reason I loved it. However can't say I remember seeing the voth have Dino pets lifted from the Dino Riders IP. Not that it bothers me to much its a game and I rolled with it... but it didn't shock me to see so many trek fans hate it. I think the newer Delta stuff has been a bit more true to the IP honestly, still I'm sure you know Trek fans. Doesn't matter what they release everyone has a favorite part of the Trek IP and they will argue it forever. You my friend need to relax and enjoy the nerd arguments, when you let go and embrasse your inner nerd and let it go. All the back and forth over silly things like a ship flying backwards... or a Dino showing up from a 80s Childerns toy instead of the 90s TV program... or THE game is DOOMed cause its not TREK DOOM stuff. Is Fun, or at least it should be if you don't take yourself or the game so serious.
Even if you don't feel like the game is in 'maintenance mode', it certainly, to me at least feels like the players are.
It's rare for me to see more than a few people on my friends' list and/or online in my fleet. For myself, I mostly play anymore for the sake of my fleet. I keep things going, send out mails to let people know about things, and otherwise doing what I can, even with the low activity.
I myself feel this way. I am rarely online for long periods of time anymore. The lack of people I know being online, and the lessened desire due to all that has been added has made me want to play a lot less. Not enough to quit, as I will probably continue to play until they do something so terrible to this game that I finally can stand no more, or my fleet totally dies out, or the game is just shut down. Could happen next week, could happen 5 years down the road, I dunno.
Anyways, to say something more on-topic, I dunno what this buyout might mean for STO, if it even happens. I do feel that in the grander picture of all of Perfect World, STO is really only a small piece of it. There are other bigger things in this than STO. I'd of course love for STO to get some honest attention and extra money put into it to really make it shine again. But nothing can be stated for sure.
I remain empathetic to the concerns of my community, but do me a favor and lay off the god damn name calling and petty remarks. It will get you nowhere.
I must admit, respect points to Trendy for laying down the law like that.
I don't think it will change anything for the players from any PWE games.
It seems this guy think he can make a fatter wallet by taking over, so he is willing to bet on that. Nothing related to the game.
Antonio, perhaps you've been distracted by that young Amadeus fellow again, but you apparently missed the fact that most of the posts in this thread have been about how if PW goes private again, it nearly inevitably means that Cryptic will be somehow disassembled and STO discarded, because of course there's been no development here at all in the past year (well, except for LoR, Featured Episodes, and the Delta Quadrant content, but if you disregard things you don't personally play...).
In fact, to the best of my knowledge, when a company goes private again, it's usually because someone in the company believes that having to produce income for shareholders is hampering what their company can actually do. That's potentially a hopeful sign for us, possibly entirely neutral, but not inevitably terrible.
If you mean that post I asked a question on a "what if," it was a what happens if question. Any answers to that question, which I didn't really see, are "what if" answers. I'm not an investor. Obviously, some of the people here are. Atari spun off Cryptic. It's how PWE acquired it. So was I out of line and creating doom by asking, "What if PWE spins off Cryptic?" It's not like it didn't happen for the last sale and it doesn't mean it will for this one, IF there is a sale at all. It's a question on corporate acquisition and what happens if a subdivision is spun off.
If it is the other posts, alrighty then. But asking what happens is a valid thing when one has no idea what happens in corporate acquisitions and I really didn't feel I needed to enroll in another round of college education and a business degree to seek enlightenment on it.
Or did you simply mean to sound condescending regarding legitimate questions?
Antonio, perhaps you've been distracted by that young Amadeus fellow again, but you apparently missed the fact that most of the posts in this thread have been about how if PW goes private again, it nearly inevitably means that Cryptic will be somehow disassembled and STO discarded, because of course there's been no development here at all in the past year (well, except for LoR, Featured Episodes, and the Delta Quadrant content, but if you disregard things you don't personally play...).
In fact, to the best of my knowledge, when a company goes private again, it's usually because someone in the company believes that having to produce income for shareholders is hampering what their company can actually do. That's potentially a hopeful sign for us, possibly entirely neutral, but not inevitably terrible.
A divestment (with or without a new owner) could be good for STO or even good for Cryptic in the long run.
I think maybe that's where you see doom in some of these posts where none is intended.
PWE dumping Cryptic or selling Cryptic could potentially be better for PWE and for Cryptic.
Atari divesting Cryptic wasn't what nearly sunk Cryptic. Atari OWNING Cryptic was what nearly sunk Cryptic. Divesting led to lean times and wasn't pleasant but the game wouldn't exist today had Atari not divested. So I see divestment potentially as a good thing.
Granted, I can also see staying at PWE as a good thing.
I think being free of Wall Street quarterly reports would DO wonders for the game whether Cryptic remains with PWE, gets sold off, or has to stand on its own. And I think there is now potentially the revenue for Cryptic to stand alone as a company even if that route might be the most nerve-racking internally.
There are also possibilities I suppose for Cryptic North to splinter off and some kind of licensing arrangement too.
Haven't seen anything yet. Not sure we will either. They just launched End of Sept / Nov... and by Q1 Reporting they could be private already. Unless Microsoft releases some numbers or something.
Corner Chris Perkins from wotc at pax 2015. He'll know, and he is a very cool guy who doesn't like b.s.
My guess is that the guy thinks the stock is undervalued. There's not really any other reason to buy it all up
Maybe he thinks the value needs nurturing away from public scrutiny, maybe he just wants to clear the deck for a re-issue later, but no matter what he thinks he will get $21 or more later for every $20 he spends today. Does he even have that much cash or is he using somebody else money?
Only thing for sure is he going to get hit with lawsuits
Getting this game out of the hands of a renown Grindcore-mechanic MMO company would be the best move, period.
Sadly I do not think PWE will let Cryptic go. Cryptic has a track-record for putting together money-making MMOs quickly, by money-making I mean MMOs that can be turned into grind2play.
They also have two of the biggest nerd-ready brand-names under license: Dungeons And Dragons as well as Star Trek.
As it stands now, Star Trek is still making them money hand over fist. People look at the new movies, type in Star Trek Game and end up here. So long as they get that $20 income from a new member they are happy -- long term does not exist. That is why we see things like the blatent Starship Troopers content shoehorned in around the "friendly zombies" and the hardcore ultra-violence. These things bring in the short-term gamers who are willing to spend.
And so long as there are people willing to spend they will continue to hold fast to Cryptic and the Star Trek property.
Short-term I would like to see Cryptic sell off the rights to Star Trek Online along with the servers, the engine, the staff and enough support to make it worth buying. I would like to see a company buy JUST the Star Trek property and reset things: Less arcade/DPS mechanic, less relentless undending grind and more story development.
Long-term I would like the game to focus on a hybrid subscription/store-transaction/donation based structure -- As it stands now the game lurches from one micro-transaction season to the next.
We are coming up on the anniversary date which means we will shortly be paying for the privilege of grinding to unlock the grind that enables the grind to pay for the premium version of the anniversary Thank You gift. And if that doesn't enrage people then really there is no point in discussing the future of this game from this point forward.
My guess is that the guy thinks the stock is undervalued. There's not really any other reason to buy it all up
Maybe he thinks the value needs nurturing away from public scrutiny, maybe he just wants to clear the deck for a re-issue later, but no matter what he thinks he will get $21 or more later for every $20 he spends today. Does he even have that much cash or is he using somebody else money?
Only thing for sure is he going to get hit with lawsuits
What kind of lawsuits?
He's the chairman and founder of PWE. He's making a legit offer to take the company private for buyout which, if voted in, will legitimately happen.
Generally, this kind of thing isn't just a matter of the stock being undervalued (although this has been a growing concern with Chinese companies) but is often a case where a company founder thinks that with more managerial control and less pressure from stockholders, they can ADD long term value to a company through more managerial control and less pressure to hit quarterly targets.
Short-term I would like to see Cryptic sell off the rights to Star Trek Online along with the servers, the engine, the staff and enough support to make it worth buying. I would like to see a company buy JUST the Star Trek property and reset things: Less arcade/DPS mechanic, less relentless undending grind and more story development.
What exactly would Cryptic have then except for a pile of cash and nothing to do with that cash? Their engine is their big asset, along with license agreements.
Long-term I would like the game to focus on a hybrid subscription/store-transaction/donation based structure -- As it stands now the game lurches from one micro-transaction season to the next.
I've covered my ideal mechanism before based on other western F2P games but it boils down to:
Free to Play, including chance box mechanisms.
BUT.
Subscription eliminates all or most grind, make keys unnecessary for chance boxes, and maybe includes an "item of the month" which goes on the C-Store for non-subbers or people who miss it.
I've covered lightly how I think that could be not only a more sustainable model with some tweaking but possibly a flat out more profitable model.
On one hand, chance box ships generate $200 or so in revenue per ship (but less when you remove the value of intermediary prizes issued). On the other hand, if you sell enough extra subs per month or so per ship issued from "buffet gambling" as a subscriber perk, you can actually make a higher profit. And that seems to be DCUO's basic model (they allow unlimited chance box opening while subscribed) although I think that can be further refined. You get the behavioral boost of a gambling-like system without the black eye such systems give you since $15 a month gets the player an "all you can gamble and low grind" experience.
Then the game is legitimately F2P but you're also legitimately using F2P to sell subs.
I think this is interesting, but I have no real insights to offer.
I hope that this will be like when Cryptic was sold off to PWE. That lead to a real growth of the game, and I don't mean this fiscally, I mean that content-wise and gameplay-wise.
People complain they can't get to level 60 fast enough, or get 60 specializations fast enough - but they forgot that now they can get to level 60, and get 60 specialization points. It doesn't mean that it couldn't be faster, easier or at least more varied, but damn it, nowadays we can play Romulans, there are KDF missions across all levels, there is a Delta Quadrant with new antagonists and allies. We've been inside a frigging Dyson Sphere, we got a hole host of new Bridge Officer powers after years of staleness.
Of course, this is different from what PWE's acquisition of Cryptic was. PWE meant that suddenly there was money that could be invested to grow the game and grow revenue of the game. This doesn't necessarily mean more money is available, though it could be it will invested into stuff with a longer business outlook than the next quarterly.
I mean, I kinda get why we have stock exchanges and publically traded companies - but I think too much these days is short-term focused and we need more long-term thinking - make sure your business isn't just profitable in 6 months, but in 6 years or (Oh god, did we ever think that long) in 60 years.
But hey, maybe STO is so irrelevant to the bottom line that it isn't really affected by any of it.
We are coming up on the anniversary date which means we will shortly be paying for the privilege of grinding to unlock the grind that enables the grind to pay for the premium version of the anniversary Thank You gift. And if that doesn't enrage people then really there is no point in discussing the future of this game from this point forward.
3 times a year, players can get a free ship these days. It requires playing the game.
Some call this a neat feature and a cool thing. Others call it the most terrible grind of all, or something like that.
You like playing the game, or you don't. If you don't, you should not call it grinding. What is the grinding gonna give you, other than something to play the game?
I can understand that doing the same thing over and over again gets boring. But that means the game has gone boring. That happens all the time. ANd this game doesn't even a subscription running if you don't play it, so if you're bored, do something else. Let Cryptic worry about the financial repercussions of you finding something better with your time and money.
Star Trek Online Advancement: You start with lowbie gear, you end with Lobi gear.
Cryptic makes money-making MMOs? Was City of Heroes money making? Doubt it or they might still be running.
It is the difference between a game generating a profit and a game generating so much money that the executives don't know what to do with all the money. As far as we know, City of Heroes was making money, but not enough for the NCSoft executives. They also had Wildstar coming out so they it was likely moving resources to what they thought would bring more money. Besides Cryptic no longer owned City of Heroes when the servers closed down or even when the game went Freemium.
True, but they made the game and it was not designed to "make money" beyond subscriptions. Eventually booster packs came around and most of those offers were VERY reasonable for the cost ( at the time).
It is my perception that F2P came to CoX for several reasons, one being to generate a new player-base that would be willing to pay the subscription costs which goes to revenue. Clearly the numbers were not there.
The point is that it's a semi-false claim that Cryptic designs money-making games. technically all MMOs need to make money in some way.
Even if PWE is private that COULD be good for STO because the Holders won't be demanding more and more and higher profit margins. Time will only tell though.
True, but they made the game and it was not designed to "make money" beyond subscriptions. Eventually booster packs came around and most of those offers were VERY reasonable for the cost ( at the time).
It is my perception that F2P came to CoX for several reasons, one being to generate a new player-base that would be willing to pay the subscription costs which goes to revenue. Clearly the numbers were not there.
The point is that it's a semi-false claim that Cryptic designs money-making games. technically all MMOs need to make money in some way.
City of Heroes was designed before F2P games became popular. So at the time, subscriptions were the only way to make money with MMOs. The executives at NCSoft saw how profitable F2P games were and decided to get on board.
Was an interesting read. No doubt those guys are playing a stone cold dead game. lol I can see why they would get annoyed when someone like me says STO is in maintenance mode. I think there simply projecting a bit. Maintenance mode can be interpreted in a few ways. For me when a mmo gets to a point in its life where the developer is no longer keeping the same people on it full time its hard to say its still being developed with the same vigor. We have gotten new things sure, really though all the new content has simply been cover for adding new $ generating mechanics. The people at CO should be thankful PWE hasn't seen enough upside to spending Dev time on there game.
Stating the obvious isn't wining its just a way to have a conversation about the future of the companies we have come to know a bit. Neverwinter is the current game of real value for Cryptic because PWE want to use it to test the market for More western MMOs at home... They also want to take Cryptics Engine (Which is well known for its ability to turn out fast games.. and even the foundry tool which makes it very fast for even novice level designers to turn out content) and port it to Xbox (which is already done) and perhaps to other platforms like PS4 and perhaps even Android. All the talk by investors of PWE needing to invade Mobile. I think there founder knows its not the time... however I also don't think he wants to make a big public display of his real plan cause its genus IMO and letting the world in on the true scope will bring more competition.
Think about what his plan could be... from what I have seen this is what it looks like.
1) Aquire a solid Engine that is very developer friendly. (Done Cryptics Engine fits the bill)
2) Port this Engine to console Engines. (we don't know how long it took but the first phase is done)
3) Develop a MMO style that can be used on Consoles... and perhaps even Mobile later. (done Neverwinter is on Xbox... look at other newer PWE titles like Swordsman, would work on a console easily action MMO is perfect)
4) Take what PWE knows and translate it to the Console platform. NW is selling right now on Xbox One in China... in fact Xbox one Just launched in China and PWE F2P MMO was right there. This year expect NW to be the first F2P MMO to start hitting consoles.
Thinking about it, really its a great strategy. They have ported Cryptics engine... they have found ways to use it to make the action mmo style games that will work well on a console and still retain the feel (and all the montonization schemes they have developed for MMOs). They can now produce entirely New MMOs with Cryptics engine and instantly have new games for Consoles and PC... and if its not already done. They can port the engine to other consoles... and perhaps more importantly. There systems guys now have experience porting the engine over. That means it should be much easier to port it further to something like Android or heck perhaps even iOS. The hardware may still be boarderline for a port that didn't have to give up a lot. What it means though is 2-5 years down the road, they could easily go Mobile with full on MMOs for tablets and other mobile devices (if the market and hardware is there).
So thinking about it I believe going private, yes its a way to get investors off there backs about rushing mobile and trying to pull the company away from its core product that it knows very well. They may or may not relist in China where the investors tend to be quite different and more willing to ride along with PWE long term plan.
The next few years will be interesting to watch. PWE has got themselves an interesting plan of attack. I have a feeling the next few years we will see a wave of F2P MMOs hit Xbox for sure... and perhaps PS4 as well. PWE is going to be at the head of the wave. They have also taken Cryptics engine and set it up to be the driving force behind that. There engine I think will be used on a bunch of platforms and to turn out a bunch of games. I wouldn't be surprised if PWE has even been getting there other game developers to start working with Cryptics engine.
I always respected PWE ability to make $... and I have to say looking closer and thinking about why they would go private right now. I think I respect them even more. They are about to start doing some pretty industry leading stuff. I would say Cryptic has made that possible for them. There engine will be the catalyst... and it was there IP deals (mostly the D&D one) that has given PWE what it needs to wiggle into a nice place with contracts for Console MMOs ect. I mean would Microsoft have signed a PW (the game) Xbox version.... perhaps. I believe signing a very western game for the Chinese market (and the rest of the world Q1) was a lot easier. I'm not sure PWE could have made that inroad into consoles with out the D&D IP.
Was an interesting read. No doubt those guys are playing a stone cold dead game. lol I can see why they would get annoyed when someone like me says STO is in maintenance mode. I think there simply projecting a bit. Maintenance mode can be interpreted in a few ways. For me when a mmo gets to a point in its life where the developer is no longer keeping the same people on it full time its hard to say its still being developed with the same vigor. We have gotten new things sure, really though all the new content has simply been cover for adding new $ generating mechanics. The people at CO should be thankful PWE hasn't seen enough upside to spending Dev time on there game.
The definition of "maintenance mode" is not up for debate. When you're getting patches for the sole purpose of keeping the game running (bug fixes, exploit correction, security patches, etc.) and nothing more, you're in maintenance mode.
Are you getting new stuff to do? Then you're not in maintenance mode. Full stop. I don't care if you like that new stuff or not. I don't care if you like the monetization model behind it or not. It's orders of magnitude more hours of new first-run content than Champions gets in any given year, so saying Star Trek is in "maintenance mode" isn't just farcical, it's insulting.
The definition of "maintenance mode" is not up for debate. When you're getting patches for the sole purpose of keeping the game running (bug fixes, exploit correction, security patches, etc.) and nothing more, you're in maintenance mode.
Are you getting new stuff to do? Then you're not in maintenance mode. Full stop. I don't care if you like that new stuff or not. I don't care if you like the monetization model behind it or not. It's orders of magnitude more hours of new first-run content than Champions gets in any given year, so saying Star Trek is in "maintenance mode" isn't just farcical, it's insulting.
"Projecting", my big, armor-plated a**.
My who is wha whaing... I thought we where the crying bunch not you folk.
Kidden... seriously dude lighten up its a game(s).
Yes I'm sorry to most people STO is in maintenance mode. Trust me the content we have gotten is NOT real content. Its not content just to give players fun things to do. It has all been Mechanic changes (not game mechanic but montonization mechanics) changes intended to generate revenue disguised as content. They have done the min needed to call it new content, the truth has been that they are changes to the game itself to make it a longer grind. IMO the last content that wasn't really just a $ scheme wrapper was LOR (and that is very debatable) that was also almost 2 years ago now believe it or not. Everything since has only hit the game to introduce new time gates and grind walls.
Trust me if CO hasn't gotten the same sort of attention from PWE your better off.
The point of this thread anyway hasn't been that X or Y game has been put on the back burner cause D&D is the new shiny for them. I think we have been talking about there long term plans for the company and how they come at the game industry in general. In regards of how PWE is coming at there home (Chinese Market) I think they have been doing exactly what they have to do. So it makes sense they would want to step away from the US stock market as they have been pulling them completely in the wrong direction if they want to do what they do best and make $ in the future. If nothing else I respect PWE ability to generate profit.
Comments
I agree with you in regard to the Western Market. One thought on what is happening with the privatization though is that it is really am move to take PWE back to the Chinese Exchange. (with it only really being a private company on paper for a short time) If that is the way it shakes out I think it would be telling as to what the Chairman is thinking. I have a feeling there thinking the western market can wait... they may see this as a good time to shore up the home front if you will.
In China D&D is still a huge thing... its a different culture. There mad for the Free to Play style games and there made for Fantasy. One of PWE other similer games Swordsman is even based on the Chinese Fantasy novel "The Smiling, Proud Wanderer".
I now its hard for us to grasp it cause we have mostly all moved on from the D&D stuff in the West... but in China when D&D online got published by Shanda it was a big deal. It was that same year that PWE snagged Cryptic complete with a D&D licence. We know now they had / have big plans for that IP. Scoring the first MMO to launch on Xbox is a pretty big thing... that its going to launch first in the Chinese market is also big. PWE has put a lot of back room work and $$$ into getting those deals inked. I have no doubt Cryptic is under CRAZY pressure to hit there timelines on the Xbox conversions and perhaps goals we haven't heard about yet officially like PlayStation ports ect. I think looking at games like NeverWinter and Swordsman it is clear PWE has been thinking about how to move the game style of Grind Free to Play fantasy game they know well into a mass market boom at home. If the Xbox sells well I think you can expect neverwinter will make a killing in China. I think it will be interesting if it goes well... I bet if it does before 2016 ends we see things like Swordsman Xbox / PS Free to play launches and who knows what else. I think consoles may be the way they go instead of mobile. It sure does make a lot more sense for them.
You can define the term how ever you like. If your definition is strict do nothing but server resets and the odd bug sweep... sure fine you win its not in in maintenance mode. lol
Really though I stand by my use of the term. The game has no full time developers. It has developer time blocked off when Cryptic has time, anything they have done for almost 2 years now has leaned heavily on old material. (be it ship designs from Prepetual... or the reuse of old lightwave models for a certain lockbox ship that ended up backwards lol) Don't get me wrong some of what they have done has been good.. imo (and I'm not alone) most of it is whipped out, not tested very well, and in most cases buggy.
So if I am Doomy McDoom cause I am smart enough to know Cryptic and PWE have bigger fish to fry then trying to make big changes to STO for little to no gain, so be it. If you like the game keep playing... I am sure we have a few years at least of the same same, so if you find that fun there is no doom intended.
I agree. Investors (particularly the short term kind) tend to be trend chasers. Whereas long term sound business practices often involve niche fortifying.
The trend (particularly if you don't follow companies in detail) is going to say that travel agents are obsolete. It's a dwindling market in terms of size and if you had to have a broad rule, investing in travel agencies would be a bad broad rule.
However, at the particular, an individual company can benefit hugely by being one of the last people operating in a very mature market. Investing in travel agencies and vacation planners in general is a weak move. But even if the market for that is shrinking? in 20, 30 years there will probably still be a few travel agencies. And they will be able to demand a premium price for their product and even though the services may shift, that individual travel agency may be a great individual company to invest in because they have few competitors, the market in unappealing for new entrants, and they specialize in catering to a select group of people. It may be travel agents for the rich, travel planning for the blind or disabled, medical tourism travel planning, etc.
PWE doesn't seem as well suited to mobile. They may get a jump into that as tablets hit the point where they can run STO style games using the existing engines. 5-10 years and I can see Cryptic Engine games working on tablets with the main need being touch-responsive UI and controls that are designed for touch. But I think tablets and phones catching up with PWE and Cryptic's game engines is going to be a better entrypoint into mobile for them than copying Zynga right now.
In fact I enjoy the game quite a bit and do intend to continue playing. And though you may stand buy it, your usage of the term "maintenance mode" is still incorrect. It's far from being stuck in that dreary fate. Last I checked we just had an expansion that increased the level cap and added new story missions, endgame, and so forth, after all. To put this in perspective, CO's playerbase only wishes they got close to half of that.... it hasn't gotten a new zone since its first year.
But, wah wah, Neverwinter and dino-lasers, right?
The travel agent point is a good one. There is always the few survive those sorts of turn downs and end up being positioned to go higher end and make more Profit... so you end up with companies that are smaller but turning out larger profits. I used to work in the fastener business at one point and that is what happened with NA manufacturing. As more and more of the high volume low profit stuff went overseas, the few smart companies that positioned themselves properly transitioned to specializing in specialty product. A handful of good companies ended up being smaller with fewer workers... but the few that they had where high skill high pay, and the product they turn out is high profit. In a few cases the companies did get smaller, but there actual profit $ went up.
Not that I can see PWE going boutique... lol
I agree with you completely anyway... mobile is a bad fit for them. Its also a suckers game right now. I mean with 20-50k or by simply having lots of time and being talented a couple people right now could make the next big Mobile game. Its all fad based... and its hard for a company to turn that stuff out. Seeing as you mentioned them even Zynga who does nothing else is having issues right now. To many companies in the market... and just way to easy to jump into it... and almost impossible to predict what will blow up and be a hit.
By porting the Cryptic engine I think PWE is positioning themselves well. How knows Cryptic may even have a Android port of there engine already working in a limited way... waiting for the hardware to get there. I would also imagine Beijing Perfect World is also working on porting Swordsman or at least there own engine to do much the same thing.
Thinking about it Cryptic has always been known as a company that could speed develop MMOs. They are or at least where known as the cookie cutter MMO company. Combine that with a Cryptic engine that has now been ported to Xbox... and perhaps PS and even Android possibly. I could see PWE snapping up rights to a bunch of Chinese based Fantasy IPs. Swordsman translated not to bad in the west... its possible there planning to use there tech and some of there know how to floow the Asian Console Free to Play market with Cookie Cutter Style games. lol
Haven't seen anything yet. Not sure we will either. They just launched End of Sept / Nov... and by Q1 Reporting they could be private already. Unless Microsoft releases some numbers or something.
Your right STO has gotten much more then CO... its a few years newer. So you know what we have to look forward to.
I think your also reading into what I have said still. I am not wah wahing Neverwinter.
Its not my cup of tea... but I wish Cryptic well with it. I even hope there Xbox port and Chinese launch go well. As much as I rag on some of the Cryptic folks and wish STOs direction was different. I don't hate them. I wouldn't have spent 4+ years playing one of there games if I hated it or them.
As far as general forum displeasure with the game are you really shocked. This is a game based on the Star Trek IP that has in more then a few ways found ways to annoy trek fans. Trek fans are well known to be pretty set in there ways. I am one person that in fact liked the Voth episodes of Voyager... I thought the idea was a bit over the top camp style Sci Fi, and for that reason I loved it. However can't say I remember seeing the voth have Dino pets lifted from the Dino Riders IP.
I think we could get a axis deviation thread going... we would have to start it in ten forward I think though. lol
It's rare for me to see more than a few people on my friends' list and/or online in my fleet. For myself, I mostly play anymore for the sake of my fleet. I keep things going, send out mails to let people know about things, and otherwise doing what I can, even with the low activity.
I myself feel this way. I am rarely online for long periods of time anymore. The lack of people I know being online, and the lessened desire due to all that has been added has made me want to play a lot less. Not enough to quit, as I will probably continue to play until they do something so terrible to this game that I finally can stand no more, or my fleet totally dies out, or the game is just shut down. Could happen next week, could happen 5 years down the road, I dunno.
Anyways, to say something more on-topic, I dunno what this buyout might mean for STO, if it even happens. I do feel that in the grander picture of all of Perfect World, STO is really only a small piece of it. There are other bigger things in this than STO. I'd of course love for STO to get some honest attention and extra money put into it to really make it shine again. But nothing can be stated for sure.
It seems this guy think he can make a fatter wallet by taking over, so he is willing to bet on that. Nothing related to the game.
If you mean that post I asked a question on a "what if," it was a what happens if question. Any answers to that question, which I didn't really see, are "what if" answers. I'm not an investor. Obviously, some of the people here are. Atari spun off Cryptic. It's how PWE acquired it. So was I out of line and creating doom by asking, "What if PWE spins off Cryptic?" It's not like it didn't happen for the last sale and it doesn't mean it will for this one, IF there is a sale at all. It's a question on corporate acquisition and what happens if a subdivision is spun off.
If it is the other posts, alrighty then. But asking what happens is a valid thing when one has no idea what happens in corporate acquisitions and I really didn't feel I needed to enroll in another round of college education and a business degree to seek enlightenment on it.
Or did you simply mean to sound condescending regarding legitimate questions?
A divestment (with or without a new owner) could be good for STO or even good for Cryptic in the long run.
I think maybe that's where you see doom in some of these posts where none is intended.
PWE dumping Cryptic or selling Cryptic could potentially be better for PWE and for Cryptic.
Atari divesting Cryptic wasn't what nearly sunk Cryptic. Atari OWNING Cryptic was what nearly sunk Cryptic. Divesting led to lean times and wasn't pleasant but the game wouldn't exist today had Atari not divested. So I see divestment potentially as a good thing.
Granted, I can also see staying at PWE as a good thing.
I think being free of Wall Street quarterly reports would DO wonders for the game whether Cryptic remains with PWE, gets sold off, or has to stand on its own. And I think there is now potentially the revenue for Cryptic to stand alone as a company even if that route might be the most nerve-racking internally.
There are also possibilities I suppose for Cryptic North to splinter off and some kind of licensing arrangement too.
It's exciting though!
Corner Chris Perkins from wotc at pax 2015. He'll know, and he is a very cool guy who doesn't like b.s.
Maybe he thinks the value needs nurturing away from public scrutiny, maybe he just wants to clear the deck for a re-issue later, but no matter what he thinks he will get $21 or more later for every $20 he spends today. Does he even have that much cash or is he using somebody else money?
Only thing for sure is he going to get hit with lawsuits
Sadly I do not think PWE will let Cryptic go. Cryptic has a track-record for putting together money-making MMOs quickly, by money-making I mean MMOs that can be turned into grind2play.
They also have two of the biggest nerd-ready brand-names under license: Dungeons And Dragons as well as Star Trek.
As it stands now, Star Trek is still making them money hand over fist. People look at the new movies, type in Star Trek Game and end up here. So long as they get that $20 income from a new member they are happy -- long term does not exist. That is why we see things like the blatent Starship Troopers content shoehorned in around the "friendly zombies" and the hardcore ultra-violence. These things bring in the short-term gamers who are willing to spend.
And so long as there are people willing to spend they will continue to hold fast to Cryptic and the Star Trek property.
Short-term I would like to see Cryptic sell off the rights to Star Trek Online along with the servers, the engine, the staff and enough support to make it worth buying. I would like to see a company buy JUST the Star Trek property and reset things: Less arcade/DPS mechanic, less relentless undending grind and more story development.
Long-term I would like the game to focus on a hybrid subscription/store-transaction/donation based structure -- As it stands now the game lurches from one micro-transaction season to the next.
We are coming up on the anniversary date which means we will shortly be paying for the privilege of grinding to unlock the grind that enables the grind to pay for the premium version of the anniversary Thank You gift. And if that doesn't enrage people then really there is no point in discussing the future of this game from this point forward.
What kind of lawsuits?
He's the chairman and founder of PWE. He's making a legit offer to take the company private for buyout which, if voted in, will legitimately happen.
Generally, this kind of thing isn't just a matter of the stock being undervalued (although this has been a growing concern with Chinese companies) but is often a case where a company founder thinks that with more managerial control and less pressure from stockholders, they can ADD long term value to a company through more managerial control and less pressure to hit quarterly targets.
What exactly would Cryptic have then except for a pile of cash and nothing to do with that cash? Their engine is their big asset, along with license agreements.
I've covered my ideal mechanism before based on other western F2P games but it boils down to:
Free to Play, including chance box mechanisms.
BUT.
Subscription eliminates all or most grind, make keys unnecessary for chance boxes, and maybe includes an "item of the month" which goes on the C-Store for non-subbers or people who miss it.
I've covered lightly how I think that could be not only a more sustainable model with some tweaking but possibly a flat out more profitable model.
On one hand, chance box ships generate $200 or so in revenue per ship (but less when you remove the value of intermediary prizes issued). On the other hand, if you sell enough extra subs per month or so per ship issued from "buffet gambling" as a subscriber perk, you can actually make a higher profit. And that seems to be DCUO's basic model (they allow unlimited chance box opening while subscribed) although I think that can be further refined. You get the behavioral boost of a gambling-like system without the black eye such systems give you since $15 a month gets the player an "all you can gamble and low grind" experience.
Then the game is legitimately F2P but you're also legitimately using F2P to sell subs.
http://co-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=299241
Helpful Tools: Dictionary.com - Logical fallacies - Random generator - Word generator - Color tool - Extra Credits - List of common English language errors - New T6 Big booty tutorial
I hope that this will be like when Cryptic was sold off to PWE. That lead to a real growth of the game, and I don't mean this fiscally, I mean that content-wise and gameplay-wise.
People complain they can't get to level 60 fast enough, or get 60 specializations fast enough - but they forgot that now they can get to level 60, and get 60 specialization points. It doesn't mean that it couldn't be faster, easier or at least more varied, but damn it, nowadays we can play Romulans, there are KDF missions across all levels, there is a Delta Quadrant with new antagonists and allies. We've been inside a frigging Dyson Sphere, we got a hole host of new Bridge Officer powers after years of staleness.
Of course, this is different from what PWE's acquisition of Cryptic was. PWE meant that suddenly there was money that could be invested to grow the game and grow revenue of the game. This doesn't necessarily mean more money is available, though it could be it will invested into stuff with a longer business outlook than the next quarterly.
I mean, I kinda get why we have stock exchanges and publically traded companies - but I think too much these days is short-term focused and we need more long-term thinking - make sure your business isn't just profitable in 6 months, but in 6 years or (Oh god, did we ever think that long) in 60 years.
But hey, maybe STO is so irrelevant to the bottom line that it isn't really affected by any of it.
3 times a year, players can get a free ship these days. It requires playing the game.
Some call this a neat feature and a cool thing. Others call it the most terrible grind of all, or something like that.
You like playing the game, or you don't. If you don't, you should not call it grinding. What is the grinding gonna give you, other than something to play the game?
I can understand that doing the same thing over and over again gets boring. But that means the game has gone boring. That happens all the time. ANd this game doesn't even a subscription running if you don't play it, so if you're bored, do something else. Let Cryptic worry about the financial repercussions of you finding something better with your time and money.
It is the difference between a game generating a profit and a game generating so much money that the executives don't know what to do with all the money. As far as we know, City of Heroes was making money, but not enough for the NCSoft executives. They also had Wildstar coming out so they it was likely moving resources to what they thought would bring more money. Besides Cryptic no longer owned City of Heroes when the servers closed down or even when the game went Freemium.
It is my perception that F2P came to CoX for several reasons, one being to generate a new player-base that would be willing to pay the subscription costs which goes to revenue. Clearly the numbers were not there.
The point is that it's a semi-false claim that Cryptic designs money-making games. technically all MMOs need to make money in some way.
City of Heroes was designed before F2P games became popular. So at the time, subscriptions were the only way to make money with MMOs. The executives at NCSoft saw how profitable F2P games were and decided to get on board.
Was an interesting read. No doubt those guys are playing a stone cold dead game. lol I can see why they would get annoyed when someone like me says STO is in maintenance mode. I think there simply projecting a bit. Maintenance mode can be interpreted in a few ways. For me when a mmo gets to a point in its life where the developer is no longer keeping the same people on it full time its hard to say its still being developed with the same vigor. We have gotten new things sure, really though all the new content has simply been cover for adding new $ generating mechanics. The people at CO should be thankful PWE hasn't seen enough upside to spending Dev time on there game.
Stating the obvious isn't wining its just a way to have a conversation about the future of the companies we have come to know a bit. Neverwinter is the current game of real value for Cryptic because PWE want to use it to test the market for More western MMOs at home... They also want to take Cryptics Engine (Which is well known for its ability to turn out fast games.. and even the foundry tool which makes it very fast for even novice level designers to turn out content) and port it to Xbox (which is already done) and perhaps to other platforms like PS4 and perhaps even Android. All the talk by investors of PWE needing to invade Mobile. I think there founder knows its not the time... however I also don't think he wants to make a big public display of his real plan cause its genus IMO and letting the world in on the true scope will bring more competition.
Think about what his plan could be... from what I have seen this is what it looks like.
1) Aquire a solid Engine that is very developer friendly. (Done Cryptics Engine fits the bill)
2) Port this Engine to console Engines. (we don't know how long it took but the first phase is done)
3) Develop a MMO style that can be used on Consoles... and perhaps even Mobile later. (done Neverwinter is on Xbox... look at other newer PWE titles like Swordsman, would work on a console easily action MMO is perfect)
4) Take what PWE knows and translate it to the Console platform. NW is selling right now on Xbox One in China... in fact Xbox one Just launched in China and PWE F2P MMO was right there. This year expect NW to be the first F2P MMO to start hitting consoles.
Thinking about it, really its a great strategy. They have ported Cryptics engine... they have found ways to use it to make the action mmo style games that will work well on a console and still retain the feel (and all the montonization schemes they have developed for MMOs). They can now produce entirely New MMOs with Cryptics engine and instantly have new games for Consoles and PC... and if its not already done. They can port the engine to other consoles... and perhaps more importantly. There systems guys now have experience porting the engine over. That means it should be much easier to port it further to something like Android or heck perhaps even iOS. The hardware may still be boarderline for a port that didn't have to give up a lot. What it means though is 2-5 years down the road, they could easily go Mobile with full on MMOs for tablets and other mobile devices (if the market and hardware is there).
So thinking about it I believe going private, yes its a way to get investors off there backs about rushing mobile and trying to pull the company away from its core product that it knows very well. They may or may not relist in China where the investors tend to be quite different and more willing to ride along with PWE long term plan.
The next few years will be interesting to watch. PWE has got themselves an interesting plan of attack. I have a feeling the next few years we will see a wave of F2P MMOs hit Xbox for sure... and perhaps PS4 as well. PWE is going to be at the head of the wave. They have also taken Cryptics engine and set it up to be the driving force behind that. There engine I think will be used on a bunch of platforms and to turn out a bunch of games. I wouldn't be surprised if PWE has even been getting there other game developers to start working with Cryptics engine.
I always respected PWE ability to make $... and I have to say looking closer and thinking about why they would go private right now. I think I respect them even more. They are about to start doing some pretty industry leading stuff. I would say Cryptic has made that possible for them. There engine will be the catalyst... and it was there IP deals (mostly the D&D one) that has given PWE what it needs to wiggle into a nice place with contracts for Console MMOs ect. I mean would Microsoft have signed a PW (the game) Xbox version.... perhaps. I believe signing a very western game for the Chinese market (and the rest of the world Q1) was a lot easier. I'm not sure PWE could have made that inroad into consoles with out the D&D IP.
The definition of "maintenance mode" is not up for debate. When you're getting patches for the sole purpose of keeping the game running (bug fixes, exploit correction, security patches, etc.) and nothing more, you're in maintenance mode.
Are you getting new stuff to do? Then you're not in maintenance mode. Full stop. I don't care if you like that new stuff or not. I don't care if you like the monetization model behind it or not. It's orders of magnitude more hours of new first-run content than Champions gets in any given year, so saying Star Trek is in "maintenance mode" isn't just farcical, it's insulting.
"Projecting", my big, armor-plated a**.
KWRussell // PRIMUS // Twitter // Spotify
My who is wha whaing... I thought we where the crying bunch not you folk.
Kidden... seriously dude lighten up its a game(s).
Yes I'm sorry to most people STO is in maintenance mode. Trust me the content we have gotten is NOT real content. Its not content just to give players fun things to do. It has all been Mechanic changes (not game mechanic but montonization mechanics) changes intended to generate revenue disguised as content. They have done the min needed to call it new content, the truth has been that they are changes to the game itself to make it a longer grind. IMO the last content that wasn't really just a $ scheme wrapper was LOR (and that is very debatable) that was also almost 2 years ago now believe it or not. Everything since has only hit the game to introduce new time gates and grind walls.
Trust me if CO hasn't gotten the same sort of attention from PWE your better off.
The point of this thread anyway hasn't been that X or Y game has been put on the back burner cause D&D is the new shiny for them. I think we have been talking about there long term plans for the company and how they come at the game industry in general. In regards of how PWE is coming at there home (Chinese Market) I think they have been doing exactly what they have to do. So it makes sense they would want to step away from the US stock market as they have been pulling them completely in the wrong direction if they want to do what they do best and make $ in the future. If nothing else I respect PWE ability to generate profit.