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PWE may have a buyer

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  • antoniosalieriantoniosalieri Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited January 2015
    druhin wrote: »
    "a credible news story on a reputable site"

    You mean, like this Reuters article posted 3 days ago? (before seekingalpha)

    I somehow missed your post before I posted myself. Indeed the offer is real enough. :)
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  • virusdancervirusdancer Member Posts: 18,687 Arc User
    edited January 2015
    druhin wrote: »
    You mean, like this Reuters article posted 3 days ago? (before seekingalpha)

    http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/01/02/perfect-world-deals-offer-idUSL3N0UH1A220150102

    Was the original, not the update article...which was at Fri Jan 2, 2015 9:56am EST.

    Got this in an email at 8:52 EST on the same day from Seeking Alpha:

    http://seekingalpha.com/news/2202435-perfect-world-receives-non-binding-20-share-buyout-offer?uide=31102825&uprof=82

    Yeah, an hour before the Reuters article.

    The actual "news" on Seeking Alpha was actually at 8:26 AM...

    http://seekingalpha.com/pr/12091095-perfect-world-announces-receipt-of-its-chairmans-preliminary-non-binding-going-private-proposal-at-20_00-per-ads

    Time in my world doesn't work the way it does in your world, eh?

    edit: Hrmm, odd that PWRD's the only stock I follow with SA though...but it's nifty to get all that news...even if it's after Reuters. ;)
  • edited January 2015
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  • ccarmichael07ccarmichael07 Member Posts: 755 Arc User
    edited January 2015
    In the event nobody else has noted this...

    If the head company goes private, it could lead to a streamlining effort internally, and shedding excess weight and fat. While new capital could be brought to the table, it's likely that new investors will want to see that new capital focused on the highest ROI potentials.

    Because we don't know where STO truly stands financially, or in terms of numbers compared to other PWE properties, it's nothing but speculation.

    However, given the turn in mood after DR, and judging solely on the general atmosphere in the forums, I can't help but postulate that STO could be a shed property, if this sale were to go through.

    While Star Trek is a well known property, it's not exactly the most prosperous or sought after right now. This is further complicated by the Frankenstein nature of the IP right now, with the Prime Universe being "dead" for all intents and purposes, and the JJ-verse being a dividing point between the fan base. Additionally, with JJ off the 3rd movie, and a director swap recently, there is no guarantee the new movie will do anything better for the franchise than the first 2.

    Failure to capitalize on the popularity of the JJ-reboot when it first occurred might well have been a bad move on Cryptic's part. But, had they transformed STO into a JJ-Trek MMO, it might have lost them the high rollers that have kept STO afloat up to now.

    It would not surprise me at all if STO got shutdown, if this sale went through.


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  • antoniosalieriantoniosalieri Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited January 2015
    It would not surprise me at all if STO got shutdown, if this sale went through.

    Honestly the chances are pretty close to zero of that happening.

    Cryptic holds more then one IP. As trek fans I know its hard for us to accept this truth. The IP Cryptic holds that has value isn't Trek. Its D&D. There is no way for them to easily dissolve Cryptic away and absorb the parts they like and loose the stuff they don't. (assuming they see little value in STO). Its easier to keep Cryptic as a holding. If they where to do other wise its very likely clauses in there deals with CBS and more importantly to them with Wizards of the Coast would become void. Also they very much want to sign new deals with Wizards and possibly other Western IPs... which means you stick it out with the older IP deals you have to show you are a stand up CO... that will deliver long term profit for the IP holder. Closing STO right now and cutting CBS out of the profit stream weakens there position when negotiations happen with other IP holders down the road.

    STO may or may not be a great profit generator. (considering how little they spend I would find it hard to believe that even with lowish player numbers that it isn't turning a nice if not massive profit) Doesn't really matter the company holds the IP they indeed care about and expect to be able to milk at home. When PWE first picked up Cryptic it wasn't by chance that it was right around the time one of there competitors was eating into there market back in China with a D&D licensed game. I believe Neverwinter has pretty much just launched on Xbox one in China. Make no mistake that was always the end game for Cryptic in the eyes of PWE... I doubt there going private will change that plan all that much.

    The thing is PWE going private has almost no baring on Cryptic at all. I think many of us would like to think that STO IS Cryptic... and that just isn't the case. The bottom line is no one at Cryptic works on STO full time. NO ONE. Not that they don't do work on it its just time spent on STO is scheduled around other projects. When X or Y person has time they have some time blocked off to work on STO a little. STO has been in maintenance mode for a long time. Its not important to there future really at all. Its a low upkeep profit pot... no need to close it... no need to spend lots of money on it. Just maintain it and work on projects with upside... like D&D games for Asia.
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  • virusdancervirusdancer Member Posts: 18,687 Arc User
    edited January 2015
    Honestly the chances are pretty close to zero of that happening.

    But, but, but the analysis for that conclusion was based on the brilliance offered by the forums!

    Surely it has better than close to zero odds!
  • meimeitoomeimeitoo Member Posts: 12,594 Arc User
    edited January 2015
    See, this is what I'm talking about. You have to take everything I said and not just latch onto one small thing in my comment. One of the key things I said was that until there is a story about the company is sold or making a big move that you should take it with a grain of salt. Anything can happen in the financial world.

    Nothing is cast in stone yet, for sure. But the story is certainly credible. And, no offense, but the fact that you even show up here, for 'rumor control,' is quite telling, all by itself. There's at least a situation. I suspect it's going to develop significantly in the next couple of days. Or, as you say, not at all.
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  • starkaosstarkaos Member Posts: 11,556 Arc User
    edited January 2015
    If PWE goes Private, then it doesn't have to listen to its shareholders anymore. Therefore, it could focus on long term gains rather than short term gains which would mean only good things for STO. However, even if STO went private tomorrow, we won't see anything happen until at least the end of the year.
  • stardestroyer001stardestroyer001 Member Posts: 2,615 Arc User
    edited January 2015
    Honestly the chances are pretty close to zero of that happening.

    Cryptic holds more then one IP. As trek fans I know its hard for us to accept this truth. The IP Cryptic holds that has value isn't Trek. Its D&D. There is no way for them to easily dissolve Cryptic away and absorb the parts they like and loose the stuff they don't. (assuming they see little value in STO). Its easier to keep Cryptic as a holding. If they where to do other wise its very likely clauses in there deals with CBS and more importantly to them with Wizards of the Coast would become void. Also they very much want to sign new deals with Wizards and possibly other Western IPs... which means you stick it out with the older IP deals you have to show you are a stand up CO... that will deliver long term profit for the IP holder. Closing STO right now and cutting CBS out of the profit stream weakens there position when negotiations happen with other IP holders down the road.

    STO may or may not be a great profit generator. (considering how little they spend I would find it hard to believe that even with lowish player numbers that it isn't turning a nice if not massive profit) Doesn't really matter the company holds the IP they indeed care about and expect to be able to milk at home. When PWE first picked up Cryptic it wasn't by chance that it was right around the time one of there competitors was eating into there market back in China with a D&D licensed game. I believe Neverwinter has pretty much just launched on Xbox one in China. Make no mistake that was always the end game for Cryptic in the eyes of PWE... I doubt there going private will change that plan all that much.

    The thing is PWE going private has almost no baring on Cryptic at all. I think many of us would like to think that STO IS Cryptic... and that just isn't the case. The bottom line is no one at Cryptic works on STO full time. NO ONE. Not that they don't do work on it its just time spent on STO is scheduled around other projects. When X or Y person has time they have some time blocked off to work on STO a little. STO has been in maintenance mode for a long time. Its not important to there future really at all. Its a low upkeep profit pot... no need to close it... no need to spend lots of money on it. Just maintain it and work on projects with upside... like D&D games for Asia.

    Perhaps a better strategy would be to assign smaller but dedicated teams to each of Cryptic's games? That way, the dev team responsible for each game would be better focused and be able to see the long term vision required for each game to evolve positively.
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  • khamseenairkhamseenair Member Posts: 2,640 Bug Hunter
    edited January 2015
    c. If PWE goes private and sells Cryptic, it likely means a cash infusion by the new owner for Cryptic's games as new owners tend to give things a fresh coat of paint and polish.

    Unless they're Atari, then they just let the game stagnate and almost die.
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  • antoniosalieriantoniosalieri Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited January 2015
    meimeitoo wrote: »
    Nothing is cast in stone yet, for sure. But the story is certainly credible. And, no offense, but the fact that you even show up here, for 'rumor control,' is quite telling, all by itself. There's at least a situation. I suspect it's going to develop significantly in the next couple of days. Or, as you say, not at all.

    Just have to comment on the sig. lol Well done. Gave me a good chuckle. RIP Joan.
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  • antoniosalieriantoniosalieri Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited January 2015
    Perhaps a better strategy would be to assign smaller but dedicated teams to each of Cryptic's games? That way, the dev team responsible for each game would be better focused and be able to see the long term vision required for each game to evolve positively.

    Well perhaps as a private company there would be a greater chance of that happening. Of course if I was a betting man I would bet that PWE is taken private only to be listed on the Chinese exchange.

    Cryptic is really a pretty small team of people really... and many of them don't have much to do on something like STO anymore as mostly now its simply art work and design for new missions and the odd bit of bug squashing. The way they take care of STO is pretty standard I would think in the industry. I think the only thing we could really hope for would be to see more developer time penciled in for STO. The issue I think has been the PWE push to get Neverwinter selling in china / ported to Xbox and likely PS coming up. I doubt that push changes much no matter who owns PWE in the end... be it NA shareholders, a private holder, or Chinese holders if they relist it.
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  • truewarpertruewarper Member Posts: 930 Arc User
    edited January 2015
    battykoda0 wrote: »
    As long as it is not EA who does the buying...

    I believe EA has stated last year they are refraining from doing acquisitions on smaller gaming companies, for this year.
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  • virusdancervirusdancer Member Posts: 18,687 Arc User
    edited January 2015
    truewarper wrote: »
    I believe EA has stated last year they are refraining from doing acquisitions on smaller gaming companies, for this year.

    http://www.gamesindustry.biz/articles/2014-12-02-ea-not-looking-for-big-acquisitions
  • mhirtescmhirtesc Member Posts: 581 Arc User
    edited January 2015
    All I will say is if the new buyer tries to strongarm CBS, CBS will just pull the plug on their license to PWE. Simple as that. That's why I haven't bought any C Store stuff with real money for years. I don't want to see my cash sprout wings & fly away when the game finally goes down.
  • chaelkchaelk Member Posts: 5,727 Arc User
    edited January 2015
    Perhaps a better strategy would be to assign smaller but dedicated teams to each of Cryptic's games? That way, the dev team responsible for each game would be better focused and be able to see the long term vision required for each game to evolve positively.

    Champions is handled by Cryptic north, a group in a separate STATE to the other 2 games.
    Yes, 2 games are at the HQ in California, the other is in Seattle.
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  • mirrorchaosmirrorchaos Member Posts: 9,844 Arc User
    edited January 2015
    Our best hope is that they sell Cryptic to someone else who doesn't micromanage them into oblivion.

    Cryptic was doing a fine job with STO until Perfect World came along. Most of the annoying cash grab tactics that are aggravating players in STO right now are typical PWE Tactics.

    I know it probably won't happen, but I'm hoping they sell off Cryptic to a company that's content to shut he hell up and let Cryptic run their game. Outside of this game, I won't touch anything associated with Perfect World. I hope everyone at Cryptic has a secure future, outside of that I would love to see PWE completely disappear from the face of the earth.

    maybe, but finding a large group that can give cryptic some slack? not sure you can find some large computer game companies doing such a thing, i mean the large ones work to deadlines as well the likes of EA and ubisoft usually push their deadlines and cut them up short, so they end up half complete and bug ridden. im not sure you can find such a generous group in this world and i doubt PWE would want to let go of the cryptic engine which is as i understand their main reason for buying out cryptic.
    battykoda0 wrote: »
    As long as it is not EA who does the buying...

    i doubt that very much considering EA has an exclusive contract with star wars to produce their games and cbs would never agree to such a thing anyway.
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  • hojain2020hojain2020 Member Posts: 417 Arc User
    edited January 2015
    Its a slick move. Lots of irritation on the game engine that runs star trek. Its outdated. Stock holders dont have faith in its future.. The current excessice monetisation strategy is just a simple reflex action by the devs to prove to management that the game can make money. But its not good enough. ... sadly. Its all a prep for a buyout or a drastic sell to a different gaming dev group. And the grapevine says there are some big buyers. Hoping for the best. .
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  • paxfederaticapaxfederatica Member Posts: 1,496 Arc User
    edited January 2015
    mhirtesc wrote: »
    All I will say is if the new buyer tries to strongarm CBS, CBS will just pull the plug on their license to PWE. Simple as that.

    There is also the unlikely, but non-trivial chance of PWE's legal department somehow TRIBBLE the pooch during the sale process, overlooking and failing to resolve some obscure point(s) in the licensing agreement with CBS that result in it being either breached or rendered null and void by the sale.
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  • virusdancervirusdancer Member Posts: 18,687 Arc User
    edited January 2015
    There is also the unlikely, but non-trivial chance of PWE's legal department somehow TRIBBLE the pooch during the sale process, overlooking and failing to resolve some obscure point(s) in the licensing agreement with CBS that result in it being either breached or rendered null and void by the sale.

    That's the thing I've actually been wondering about...the actual nature of the licensing agreement, the legalese of it and what such actions might take into account should they decide to tell the legal department on Facebook or Twitter what they need to do instead of sending an email using the official company email system.
  • antoniosalieriantoniosalieri Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited January 2015
    The nature of the deal with CBS doesn't really matter.

    The only thing PWE would be concerned about if they where to change there nature of Cryptic as a business unit would be there deal with Wizards.

    Lets all get real CBS is 110% happy with Cryptic. They gave them a AAA(ish) style MMO in almost no time at all. CBS deal was inked with Perpetual and the game would have likely died right there if Cryptic wasn't able to deliver in less then 2 years... which is crazy. Cryptic has done nothing but send CBS free cash... does anyone seriously think if some legal change forced them to have to reink the papers CBS wouldn't fall over themselves to sign them ? ;) lol

    The only possible issue is the deal in place for the Wizards IP... I'm not sure they where super happy about the PWE purchase... as they had other deals in place for D&D online for Asia. However at this point with a D&D licence game hitting china on the Xbox platform I doubt they wouldn't resign away as well.

    Regardless Cryptic is a wholly owned subsidiary of Perfect World. That doesn't change if the company goes private.
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  • virusdancervirusdancer Member Posts: 18,687 Arc User
    edited January 2015
    Regardless Cryptic is a wholly owned subsidiary of Perfect World. That doesn't change if the company goes private.

    But that's the thing...it's going to depend exactly on what's said in that license agreement.

    Yadda, yadda, yadda...with Cryptic Studios, a wholly owned subsidiary of Perfect World, a publicly traded entity.

    Things like that...the verbosity of some of those things are a trip.
  • mjarbarmjarbar Member Posts: 2,084 Arc User
    edited January 2015
    While everyone is saying it's going to be sold blah blah blah, hasn't anyone thought about the fact it is perfectly within the rights of PWE to tell the bloke to get lost!

    Regardless of how much of the corporate BS you believe or not, STO and Cryptic make money and no one in their right mind will get rid of that! Also until anything has been confirmed in writing all this is total speculation and nothing to get worked up over !
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  • antoniosalieriantoniosalieri Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited January 2015
    But that's the thing...it's going to depend exactly on what's said in that license agreement.

    Yadda, yadda, yadda...with Cryptic Studios, a wholly owned subsidiary of Perfect World, a publicly traded entity.

    Things like that...the verbosity of some of those things are a trip.

    The agreement has survived the bankruptcy of Perpetual, the purchase of Cryptic by Atari, then the purchase of Cryptic by PWE. If I had to guess the language is either pretty slack in regards to who actually owns the development company... or CBS just doesn't care as long as the $ flows. ;)
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  • antoniosalieriantoniosalieri Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited January 2015
    mjarbar wrote: »
    While everyone is saying it's going to be sold blah blah blah, hasn't anyone thought about the fact it is perfectly within the rights of PWE to tell the bloke to get lost!

    Regardless of how much of the corporate BS you believe or not, STO and Cryptic make money and no one in their right mind will get rid of that! Also until anything has been confirmed in writing all this is total speculation and nothing to get worked up over !

    Its not up to anyone that works for PWE currently. Its up to the people that own the company. Which is mostly investment capital firms. For instance Farallon Capital owns close to half a million shares.

    Consider that the stock is now still less then $20 a share and if they reject the offer the stock will likely sink to as low as $15 on the news of a rejection almost instantly. Its trading right now around 19.30 or so which is almost a 30% bump from where it was not long ago. The chances of the holdings companies that are invested in PWRD not taking a fast profit like that are pretty lowish. Really the company won't stay private for long... its likely its going to be private only as long as needed before its listed on the Chinese exchange.
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  • virusdancervirusdancer Member Posts: 18,687 Arc User
    edited January 2015
    The agreement has survived the bankruptcy of Perpetual, the purchase of Cryptic by Atari, then the purchase of Cryptic by PWE. If I had to guess the language is either pretty slack in regards to who actually owns the development company... or CBS just doesn't care as long as the $ flows. ;)

    But that was back when they communicated by official means...so each time they had to touch anything up, the people that needed to know knew. If they tell their lawyers that they need to do something, but do it over on reddit... ;)

    This is the new Cryptic...they announce things without announcing them. Expect that internal communications are not much better. :P
  • mjarbarmjarbar Member Posts: 2,084 Arc User
    edited January 2015
    Its not up to anyone that works for PWE currently. Its up to the people that own the company. Which is mostly investment capital firms. For instance Farallon Capital owns close to half a million shares.

    Consider that the stock is now still less then $20 a share and if they reject the offer the stock will likely sink to as low as $15 on the news of a rejection almost instantly. Its trading right now around 19.30 or so which is almost a 30% bump from where it was not long ago. The chances of the holdings companies that are invested in PWRD not taking a fast profit like that are pretty lowish. Really the company won't stay private for long... its likely its going to be private only as long as needed before its listed on the Chinese exchange.

    On the whole I would agree with you especially if it were a European or American company but things are slightly different with companies owned and run in China, they have a propensity for taking a very long term view in a lot of things they do, so while a short term profit may be gained, if they think in the long term that an even bigger profit can be made they will go for the latter even if there is a loss in the mid term.

    Also there is a political aspect that has to be acknowledged and looked at. While China has a stock market and somewhat open markets to encourage overseas investors the central party can and often, in the case of a home grown company, steps in to say yay or nay to a sale sometimes for what would appear to be the silliest reasons.

    So in this case while all pointers say yay, I would not rule out the nay either and hence don't believe it till its in writing!
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  • leviathan99#2867 leviathan99 Member Posts: 7,747 Arc User
    edited January 2015
    mjarbar wrote: »
    While everyone is saying it's going to be sold blah blah blah, hasn't anyone thought about the fact it is perfectly within the rights of PWE to tell the bloke to get lost!

    Regardless of how much of the corporate BS you believe or not, STO and Cryptic make money and no one in their right mind will get rid of that! Also until anything has been confirmed in writing all this is total speculation and nothing to get worked up over !

    Seeing as the bloke is chairman of the board, if they did tell him to get lost, you might still be looking at interesting managerial changes. And the shareholders would have to believe in a pretty dramatic longterm plan (which we haven't seen any hint of in prior public communications with shareholders) to do that. It could happen but it's not like they could tell Mr. Chi to get lost without some seriously new and exciting alternative strategy and possibly some management and vision shakeups even if they say no.
  • jtmarshjtmarsh Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited January 2015
    If it goes private then the owner will have more power to do what he wants. As in selling off things. The problem is we don't know how much this game is making. Is it profitable? They don't release sub numbers or operating cost for this game. This game has a lot of different owners. From time of the developing and on. If it is making profit that don't mean it won't be sold. But as long as it is making $$$ then it should survive. I kinda wish it would be sold to a American company that has strong backing. No offence to cryptic but I kinda wish they would take it from them. I love the new content!! It's not that. My problem with cryptic is the broken promises over the years. The GRAND PLANS! That never came to be. Cryptic seems to be a few people that have grand ideas one day and the the next new ideas that cancel out the other day.
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