Okay obviously if everything so far is true and accurate we know what those values had to be relative to each other for that to work. I think the question must be "How the hell did they get like that?"
Peace and love and all that.:)
Cause Iconians!
Hell, it's like the Enhanced Armor Penetration stating that it does 5%...which with the wobblygobbly language that Cryptic has used in the past would translate to a -5 DRR debuff...which with it being always on, taking up a slot, etc might pass some sort of internal balance pass when compared to the 2.5% chance for a Disruptor-type proc to provide -10 DRR. But EAP's providing -50 DRR...oopsie!
Or how about Geko dropping out his post on the Mk XIII and Mk XIV following up on some of what he had said in podcasts about doubling it? His example showed going to Mk XIV being a +60% Cat1(Strength) increase, which broken down in to +20% and +40% would reflect that doubling from what each Mk gave up through Mk XII with the +10%. Course, Mk XIII gives +40% and Mk XIV gives +70%...oopsie!
Players have a different perspective that we sometimes take for granted due to having different information at our fingertips. Sometimes it requires that unique perspective to notice the things that we cannot.
Personally, I play plenty. But I'm not watching the digits of every single bit of XP fly by as I destroy another Kazon or Hierarchy vessel. This is admittedly my bias: I trust the data that I have access to, and don't need to be constantly charting everything that happens to be in-game on a spreadsheet or notepad. This is the type of data that goes unnoticed, while I focus on things like "am I having fun?" or "is this AI behaving as expected?" and "was that boss fight tuned to the right difficulty?"
...so who cares if anything is working right - are you having fun?
Hell, it's like the Enhanced Armor Penetration stating that it does 5%...which with the wobblygobbly language that Cryptic has used in the past would translate to a -5 DRR debuff...which with it being always on, taking up a slot, etc might pass some sort of internal balance pass when compared to the 2.5% chance for a Disruptor-type proc to provide -10 DRR. But EAP's providing -50 DRR...oopsie!
Or how about Geko dropping out his post on the Mk XIII and Mk XIV following up on some of what he had said in podcasts about doubling it? His example showed going to Mk XIV being a +60% Cat1(Strength) increase, which broken down in to +20% and +40% would reflect that doubling from what each Mk gave up through Mk XII with the +10%. Course, Mk XIII gives +40% and Mk XIV gives +70%...oopsie!
But in the end, we've got...
...so who cares if anything is working right - are you having fun?
Yaahhhhh....when I saw your post on the weapons in another sub I was all like.....
Yaahhhhh....when I saw your post on the weapons in another sub I was all like.....
Glad I'm doing 'Something Else'!
So yah, I'm having fun!:D
It probably ticks some folks off that I don't do actual bug reports for these various things, that I just seem to have a hang up about reporting issues with torps...the E-Bio TS3 that was firing 7 torps instead of 4, the Neut TS3 that's doing...meh, forgot something like 100% more damage (it's out there a few times from me, just can't recall off hand)...
...but the simple gist of it is, EAP...Mk XIV...even working in AMP - I suck at the game, so I'm still not having those rockstar moments. The TS3 E-Bio and Neut stuff...lol, was stuff that I shouldn't have been able to do. So I reported it.
EAP, Mk XIV...I'm working that stuff into my Argala Rising grind. Hell, the AMP core I picked up (same as the build in this thread) just for testing, I'm going to work that in to my grind build even though I'm Sci and not Tac. TRIBBLE Cryptic...
And I think it's important to point out here again, less folks think this has all gone way off topic - that even if you were to drop me in the exact build Sarcasm's flying, I couldn't pull the numbers off. I'm just not that good at the game. Pulling those numbers deserves all the props in the world for having done them...there's no ifs, ands, or buts about - anybody can get the gear, so that's no excuse...do they have the skills to pull the numbers?
I notice the plasma DoT damage was 10k, and it has me wondering, on my Science Vesta/Scryer I run 3 -threat +plasma science modules, but I am also running plasma beams, if I am running 3 of those sci modules should I be running AP? (or something else) it almost looks like the plasma proc provides more damage than the 10.? % plasma damage.
I typically run Disruptors or APs on my Tac ships with one -threat +plas threat console, but I never thougt the plasma dot might be better DPS than the +10.? % to plasma.
OP? anybody have theories?
thanks for any info
PS, I ran with ryanSTO yesterday, his Oddy is upto 80k, though it is the tactical version.
I notice the plasma DoT damage was 10k, and it has me wondering, on my Science Vesta/Scryer I run 3 -threat +plasma science modules, but I am also running plasma beams, if I am running 3 of those sci modules should I be running AP? (or something else) it almost looks like the plasma proc provides more damage than the 10.? % plasma damage.
I typically run Disruptors or APs on my Tac ships with one -threat +plas threat console, but I never thougt the plasma dot might be better DPS than the +10.? % to plasma.
OP? anybody have theories?
thanks for any info
PS, I ran with ryanSTO yesterday, his Oddy is upto 80k, though it is the tactical version.
I'm not 100% sure but in one of the other DPS threads I remember some guy said that the plasma DoT on plasma weapons wasn't boosted by anything but the DoT from the consoles was boosted by the t4 Nukara traitand other things that boost all damage.
I'm not 100% sure but in one of the other DPS threads I remember some guy said that the plasma DoT on plasma weapons wasn't boosted by anything but the DoT from the consoles was boosted by the t4 Nukara traitand other things that boost all damage.
Good to know, but not really my question... let me try to re-state.
On a ship with 4 beam arrays available and 3 -threat +plasma consoles, would it be better to run plasma to get +10.x% x 3 or run AP, to get the DoT chance x 3 resulting in "lots of dots"?
Looking at parses with ships running non-plasma but multiple -threat +plas consoles, they have a large number for plasma DoT damage, I am wondering which way is better since I run 3 of these consoles.
Good to know, but not really my question... let me try to re-state.
On a ship with 4 beam arrays available and 3 -threat +plasma consoles, would it be better to run plasma to get +10.x% x 3 or run AP, to get the DoT chance x 3 resulting in "lots of dots"?
Looking at parses with ships running non-plasma but multiple -threat +plas consoles, they have a large number for plasma DoT damage, I am wondering which way is better since I run 3 of these consoles.
I am hoping that is clearer.
Thanks for the response!
Antiproton; the extra 20% severity from Antiproton (especially when you know how to max your crit hit%) is going to be better than the strength boosts from your Science consoles.
Now see, that's somebody working magic with some numbers...
/awe
Going to grab some caffeine and try to get it to sink in.
Thanks, hope it all sank in well
I did notice I made a small mistake in the formula I wrote down for the bonus damage. Since I did the calculations correctly, there is no impact there.
For the tooltip it should read:
AMP boost = (3.3% * (1 + bonus)) * ((1 + (3.66% * (1 + bonus))) ^ #systems)
So for the weapons it becomes:
AMP boost = (3.357% * (1 + bonus)) * ((1 + (3.66% * (1 + bonus))) ^ #systems)
I did some tests on my own tac and it all fell in line with the formula. The non-bonus values for a Phaser Beam Array Standard Issue all came up exactly as yours. I did some more buff tests too.
So it seems to be reasonably close (only the APA has a deviation of 0.2 after rounding). I have also tried to theorize were the 3.357% could be coming from, but so far I have come up blank. Going by the result for APA, it is probably not going to be exactly 3.357%, which would cause the slight deviation with higher bonus damage.
Also worth noting is that the tooltip for the warpcore did NOT change when activating EPTW3. Not even when APO1 was also active. But going by the tooltip for the beam array, it is taken into account. Go figure...
That's damage (usually Kinetic) that comes from non-weapon sources, such as Tyken's Rift, Gravity Well, Tractor Beam Repulsors, Isometric Charge, etc
I get that, but Jena doesn't haven any of that on his ship from what I can tell. From my understanding Particle Gen won't effect the plasma fires from the embassy consoles either.
I get that, but Jena doesn't haven any of that on his ship from what I can tell. From my understanding Particle Gen won't effect the plasma fires from the embassy consoles either.
And I think it's important to point out here again, less folks think this has all gone way off topic - that even if you were to drop me in the exact build Sarcasm's flying, I couldn't pull the numbers off. I'm just not that good at the game. Pulling those numbers deserves all the props in the world for having done them...there's no ifs, ands, or buts about - anybody can get the gear, so that's no excuse...do they have the skills to pull the numbers?
There's also all sorts of minutia that come into it, too.
Literally just today I read Sarcasm post about putting Tac Team at the end of your "keep these active" rotation, because it has a 1s activation time that locks out other abilities, whereas most other abilities have a 0.5s or 0.75s activation time.
I have to rearrange my bars, and see if it makes a noticeable difference...
There's also all sorts of minutia that come into it, too.
Literally just today I read Sarcasm post about putting Tac Team at the end of your "keep these active" rotation, because it has a 1s activation time that locks out other abilities, whereas most other abilities have a 0.5s or 0.75s activation time.
I have to rearrange my bars, and see if it makes a noticeable difference...
I'm glad you brought that up, because I should have been more clear in what I was saying there. "Skill" means different things to different folks, and having been in enough discussions (arguments) on different forums over the years - heh, I should have definitely clarified what I meant there.
Yep, it would not just what some folks might consider twitch things - it's going to be all the little tidbits of knowledge that add up and how they're implemented.
It's like how folks would get ticked off on the disclaimers about expectations for hopping in the build, some folks would fly off the handle thinking it was an ego thing - it was just the simple truth. It's not just the skill build, ship build, and going at it...there's all the rest as well. There's going to be that increased underlying efficiency that comes from experience and all the rest of those things that would come into play.
I have a question (I'm sorry if it was answered before): why did you choose to forgo the two omnidirectional AP arrays for your build? I realize that you might lose something on the modifiers, but wouldn't the ability to hit more foes more often make up for it?
I have a question (I'm sorry if it was answered before): why did you choose to forgo the two omnidirectional AP arrays for your build? I realize that you might lose something on the modifiers, but wouldn't the ability to hit more foes more often make up for it?
If you're good enough to keep foes within your broadside arc - which will bring all your standard beam arrays to bear - then the omnidirectional AP beam arrays are going to hurt you far more than they would help you, precisely because you're losing on the modifiers.
Omnidirectional give you increased weapons uptime if you have a forward (i.e. DBB) build, but that's not optimal on a 4/4 weapons layout.
I suspected the answer would be something like that.
A good AND attentive pilot can get more out of this set-up.
However, a less skilled and slightly lazy pilot (like myself I suspect) would probably get more out of the two omni-arrays.
You're looking at maintaining a 70 degree arc while moving against a target that may also be moving...though it's not always a 70 degree arc because sometimes arcs don't matter and sometimes they do (I'm not in game to check where it stands currently) - but basically, from time to time you can start a cycle in arc and the cycle will continue to fire out of the arc, so you'd no longer be dealing with the limitations of the 70 degree arc.
So would the [Pla] mod on one embassy console be worth enough to replace say, the Bounty Hunter's Best Friend console? Keeping in mind this would be for a ship with only one extra sci console slot, not something similar to the sci oddy.
So would the [Pla] mod on one embassy console be worth enough to replace say, the Bounty Hunter's Best Friend console? Keeping in mind this would be for a ship with only one extra sci console slot, not something similar to the sci oddy.
Comments
Cause Iconians!
Hell, it's like the Enhanced Armor Penetration stating that it does 5%...which with the wobblygobbly language that Cryptic has used in the past would translate to a -5 DRR debuff...which with it being always on, taking up a slot, etc might pass some sort of internal balance pass when compared to the 2.5% chance for a Disruptor-type proc to provide -10 DRR. But EAP's providing -50 DRR...oopsie!
Or how about Geko dropping out his post on the Mk XIII and Mk XIV following up on some of what he had said in podcasts about doubling it? His example showed going to Mk XIV being a +60% Cat1(Strength) increase, which broken down in to +20% and +40% would reflect that doubling from what each Mk gave up through Mk XII with the +10%. Course, Mk XIII gives +40% and Mk XIV gives +70%...oopsie!
But in the end, we've got...
...so who cares if anything is working right - are you having fun?
Yaahhhhh....when I saw your post on the weapons in another sub I was all like.....
Glad I'm doing 'Something Else'!
So yah, I'm having fun!:D
It probably ticks some folks off that I don't do actual bug reports for these various things, that I just seem to have a hang up about reporting issues with torps...the E-Bio TS3 that was firing 7 torps instead of 4, the Neut TS3 that's doing...meh, forgot something like 100% more damage (it's out there a few times from me, just can't recall off hand)...
...but the simple gist of it is, EAP...Mk XIV...even working in AMP - I suck at the game, so I'm still not having those rockstar moments. The TS3 E-Bio and Neut stuff...lol, was stuff that I shouldn't have been able to do. So I reported it.
EAP, Mk XIV...I'm working that stuff into my Argala Rising grind. Hell, the AMP core I picked up (same as the build in this thread) just for testing, I'm going to work that in to my grind build even though I'm Sci and not Tac. TRIBBLE Cryptic...
And I think it's important to point out here again, less folks think this has all gone way off topic - that even if you were to drop me in the exact build Sarcasm's flying, I couldn't pull the numbers off. I'm just not that good at the game. Pulling those numbers deserves all the props in the world for having done them...there's no ifs, ands, or buts about - anybody can get the gear, so that's no excuse...do they have the skills to pull the numbers?
I notice the plasma DoT damage was 10k, and it has me wondering, on my Science Vesta/Scryer I run 3 -threat +plasma science modules, but I am also running plasma beams, if I am running 3 of those sci modules should I be running AP? (or something else) it almost looks like the plasma proc provides more damage than the 10.? % plasma damage.
I typically run Disruptors or APs on my Tac ships with one -threat +plas threat console, but I never thougt the plasma dot might be better DPS than the +10.? % to plasma.
OP? anybody have theories?
thanks for any info
PS, I ran with ryanSTO yesterday, his Oddy is upto 80k, though it is the tactical version.
I'm not 100% sure but in one of the other DPS threads I remember some guy said that the plasma DoT on plasma weapons wasn't boosted by anything but the DoT from the consoles was boosted by the t4 Nukara traitand other things that boost all damage.
Good to know, but not really my question... let me try to re-state.
On a ship with 4 beam arrays available and 3 -threat +plasma consoles, would it be better to run plasma to get +10.x% x 3 or run AP, to get the DoT chance x 3 resulting in "lots of dots"?
Looking at parses with ships running non-plasma but multiple -threat +plas consoles, they have a large number for plasma DoT damage, I am wondering which way is better since I run 3 of these consoles.
I am hoping that is clearer.
Thanks for the response!
Antiproton; the extra 20% severity from Antiproton (especially when you know how to max your crit hit%) is going to be better than the strength boosts from your Science consoles.
I did notice I made a small mistake in the formula I wrote down for the bonus damage. Since I did the calculations correctly, there is no impact there.
For the tooltip it should read:
AMP boost = (3.3% * (1 + bonus)) * ((1 + (3.66% * (1 + bonus))) ^ #systems)
So for the weapons it becomes:
AMP boost = (3.357% * (1 + bonus)) * ((1 + (3.66% * (1 + bonus))) ^ #systems)
I did some tests on my own tac and it all fell in line with the formula. The non-bonus values for a Phaser Beam Array Standard Issue all came up exactly as yours. I did some more buff tests too.
Strength:
9 Starship Weapons Training: 0.495
9 Starship Energy Weapons: 0.495
Phaser Accolade: 0.02
Total: 1.01
Attack patterns:
3 Starship Attack Patterns: 0.27
APO1: 0.10 * 1.27 = 0.127 (tooltip 12.7%)
APA: 0.332 * 1.27 = 0.42164 (tooltip 42.2%)
Phaser Beam Array Standard Issue / 3xAMP / EPTW3
Base: 100
Strength: 1.01
EPTW3: 0.166 (tooltip 16.6%)
3xAMP: 3 * (0.03357 * 1.166) * ((1 + (0.0366 * 1.166)) ^ 3) = 0.133112481
125 Weapon Power: * 2.5
2.5 * 100 * (1 + 1.01 + 0.133112481) * (1 + 0.166) = 624.7172882 (tooltip 624.7)
Phaser Beam Array Standard Issue / 3xAMP / APO1
Base: 100
Strength: 1.01
APO1: 0.127 (tooltip 12.7%)
3xAMP: 3 * (0.03357 * 1.127) * ((1 + (0.0366 * 1.127)) ^ 3) = 0.1281325009
125 Weapon Power: * 2.5
2.5 * 100 * (1 + 1.01 + 0.1281325009) * (1 + 0.127) = 602.4188321 (tooltip 602.4)
Phaser Beam Array Standard Issue / 3xAMP / APO1 + EPTW3
Base: 100
Strength: 1.01
EPTW3: 0.166 (tooltip 16.6%)
APO1: 0.127 (tooltip 12.7%)
Total: 0.293
3xAMP: 3 * (0.03357 * 1.293) * ((1 + (0.0366 * 1.293)) ^ 3) = 0.1495939533
125 Weapon Power: * 2.5
2.5 * 100 * (1 + 1.01 + 0.1495939533) * (1 + 0.293) = 698.0887454 (tooltip 698.1)
Phaser Beam Array Standard Issue / 3xAMP / APA
Base: 100
Strength: 1.01
APA: 0.42164 (tooltip 42.2%)
3xAMP: 3 * (0.03357 * 1.42164) * ((1 + (0.0366 * 1.42164)) ^ 3) = 0.166705186
125 Weapon Power: * 2.5
2.5 * 100 * (1 + 1.01 + 0.166705186) * (1 + 0.42164) = 773.6227902 (tooltip 773.8)
So it seems to be reasonably close (only the APA has a deviation of 0.2 after rounding). I have also tried to theorize were the 3.357% could be coming from, but so far I have come up blank. Going by the result for APA, it is probably not going to be exactly 3.357%, which would cause the slight deviation with higher bonus damage.
Also worth noting is that the tooltip for the warpcore did NOT change when activating EPTW3. Not even when APO1 was also active. But going by the tooltip for the beam array, it is taken into account. Go figure...
That's damage (usually Kinetic) that comes from non-weapon sources, such as Tyken's Rift, Gravity Well, Tractor Beam Repulsors, Isometric Charge, etc
I get that, but Jena doesn't haven any of that on his ship from what I can tell. From my understanding Particle Gen won't effect the plasma fires from the embassy consoles either.
i have more than 1 ship you know.
There's also all sorts of minutia that come into it, too.
Literally just today I read Sarcasm post about putting Tac Team at the end of your "keep these active" rotation, because it has a 1s activation time that locks out other abilities, whereas most other abilities have a 0.5s or 0.75s activation time.
I have to rearrange my bars, and see if it makes a noticeable difference...
Yeah...not sure why I didn't think about that. Thanks.
I'm glad you brought that up, because I should have been more clear in what I was saying there. "Skill" means different things to different folks, and having been in enough discussions (arguments) on different forums over the years - heh, I should have definitely clarified what I meant there.
Yep, it would not just what some folks might consider twitch things - it's going to be all the little tidbits of knowledge that add up and how they're implemented.
It's like how folks would get ticked off on the disclaimers about expectations for hopping in the build, some folks would fly off the handle thinking it was an ego thing - it was just the simple truth. It's not just the skill build, ship build, and going at it...there's all the rest as well. There's going to be that increased underlying efficiency that comes from experience and all the rest of those things that would come into play.
I have a question (I'm sorry if it was answered before): why did you choose to forgo the two omnidirectional AP arrays for your build? I realize that you might lose something on the modifiers, but wouldn't the ability to hit more foes more often make up for it?
If you're good enough to keep foes within your broadside arc - which will bring all your standard beam arrays to bear - then the omnidirectional AP beam arrays are going to hurt you far more than they would help you, precisely because you're losing on the modifiers.
Omnidirectional give you increased weapons uptime if you have a forward (i.e. DBB) build, but that's not optimal on a 4/4 weapons layout.
A good AND attentive pilot can get more out of this set-up.
However, a less skilled and slightly lazy pilot (like myself I suspect) would probably get more out of the two omni-arrays.
yes
/10 char