My bet is on this being a 5/5 split, they add in one trait slot, but cut you down to 5 space and 5 ground, or a 4/4 split to bring it inline with the other traits.
18 Slots? ummm your joking right? They would say that that increases the power creep.
How would 18 slots increase power creep? Currently you can slot 9 space traits, or 9 ground traits, if you are bothered to spend the time. Giving 9/9 would just maintain the status quo, but make it more convenient.
4/4 would be a huge nerf from up to 9. Guess it would "force" people to go down the spec tree road to get their lost abilities and powers back.
Considering people have paid money for some of these traits (lockbox etc), reducing from being able to slot 9 would not be received well by the community (aiming for master of understatement land here).
I'm guessing that as they are looking own the road to expand the Specialization Traits , they see themselves repeating the same "mistake" of offering endless powers that stack up .
So they want to avoid the stack .
There are no Specialization Traits. There are Starship Traits, including those Starship Traits that come from the Specialization system. They are already limited - you can only slot four. They are all Space. What mistake are they repeating?
If you're talking about the various buffs available from selecting a Primary and Secondary Specialization, those too are already limited by only being able to select a single Primary and a single Secondary Specialization. What mistake are they repeating?
Now, if you'd raised concerns about how the split of Space/Ground traits would take place in looking at both Personal and Active Reputation Traits (the Passive Reputation Traits are already split into Space and Ground)...wondering if they were going to split Active Reputation Traits into 2/2 from 4 and if they were going to split Personal Traits from 9-10 into 4/5 | 5/4 or 5/5 and the like...yeah, in the wording provided there it would be vague enough to see them perhaps doing something like that.
But what you actually suggest...er...uh...how on Earth did you draw that conclusion?
I can tell you right now this is going to really suck. I would not be surprised to see 4 and 4 or possibly 5 and 5, but most likely 4 and 4 to match all the others - so a 60% nerf to traits, which were already nerfed into the bronze age.
This is what I'm worried about. Every time they do something that looks like it would be beneficial to the players, they always find away to TRIBBLE us over. It wouldn't surprise me if they cut the amount of traits we could equip in half.
How would 18 slots increase power creep? Currently you can slot 9 space traits, or 9 ground traits, if you are bothered to spend the time. Giving 9/9 would just maintain the status quo, but make it more convenient.
4/4 would be a huge nerf from up to 9. Guess it would "force" people to go down the spec tree road to get their lost abilities and powers back.
Considering people have paid money for some of these traits (lockbox etc), reducing from being able to slot 9 would not be received well by the community (aiming for master of understatement land here).
I wouldn't consider it a power creep. In my post I said THEY (being cryptic would say that). I mean if smirk said in a twitch live stream, (and he did during his Winter Invasion one), that doing anything to get autographs for next years ship would be considered an exploit. Why wouldn't they say that 18 slots is too much Power Creep.
So long as they keep the trait slots the same as they are now and make the split of say (depending on alien or species) 10 space / 10 ground then I'm cool with that. They also have the load out button option like they do with ships as well. They could utilize that if they didn't want to make it permanent (although I find this way just slightly more annoying than the "set it and forget it" method).
This is what I'm worried about. Every time they do something that looks like it would be beneficial to the players, they always find away to TRIBBLE us over. It wouldn't surprise me if they cut the amount of traits we could equip in half.
Better not. Some players *like* to specialize in either ground or space. By making it 4/4, what would be the point in trying to specialize at all? I've not touched space since DR, because it's just not my forte & I enjoy ground more anyways. If they really remove the ability to slot all generic/racial traits to be of one region, it's just gonna be upsetting; as it removes any ability to properly specialize the characters.
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And if you are right , and this is just about the slotting of existing powers without limiting them in some fashion ... -- do you expect that to go off without a hitch ?
(see the "loadout" system for further evidence) .
No, I expect it to be buggy as hell and relatively untested, with the players forced to deal with the buggy UI until they get around to fixing it.
But at least it would be there and indicative of a signifigant quality-of-life improvement that players have been asking for.
I wouldn't consider it a power creep. In my post I said THEY (being cryptic would say that). I mean if smirk said in a twitch live stream, (and he did during his Winter Invasion one), that doing anything to get autographs for next years ship would be considered an exploit. Why wouldn't they say that 18 slots is too much Power Creep.
Ah - good point - I agree that they would probably label it Power Creep while they're nerfing it. Probably in some convoluted dev blog where they talk about how they are improving things for us. To be honest - I wish they had left traits alone - species traits should be freebies (giving reason to roll said species), and if you have to choose traits, then you have to develop your character.
He said that about the autographs? Not to be a jerk, but autographs are probably a touchy subject they should avoid talking about, considering they ship discount is still busted from looking at the bugs subforum, and logic dictates that they'll probably only have 1 or 2 weeks at most to fix when they return from holidays.
To be clear, the OP is correct about what the plan is for the spec system is, but the quote he is using as evidence has NOTHING to do with that. The Devs have explicitly stated that the plan is to have additional spec trees added, both primary and secondary - and (spoiler alert) you can ALREADY NOT SLOT THEM ALL AT ONCE. You can only slot one primary and one secondary right now, so I'm not sure why it's suddenly a controversial revelation. It's like suddenly saying "Wait! They are going to promote us to Admiral, but we will still only command a single ship!!!", as if that's new.
Actually that analogy is inapt, though, because I can see why having a notional rank of "Fleet Admiral" without any of the trappings of that rank is a bit irritating for people. What I can't understand is why anyone would be upset about the fact that new powers would be added such that they are entirely optional - if you like them better than your current specializations, you can switch over. If you don't, then simply don't grind up that new tree. Complaining that you "worked" to get that tree filled and now it's "invalid" is (and this analogy is I think perfectly apt) like complaining that you "bought" a ship you liked last year for real money, but now there's a new ship that you like MORE, and that means the old ship is "useless" since you can't use them both at the same time. I just don't think it's a valid complaint. You can still switch back to your old ship if you want to use it occasionally, just like you could swap back to your old specializations for some missions. You aren't losing access to something you've "earned", you're simply gaining the option to use something else instead.
As far as splitting Space and Ground - this is definitely something they should do, simply from a quality of life standpoint. The only reason I don't run more STFs than I currently do is I don't like swapping my traits out between missions - it's just an irritating hassle. I don't see any viable arguments against doing it - it's not actually power creep in any meaningful sense, since right now any competent player should (IMO) be adjusting traits based on the type of mission. Put simply, giving me 9 space and 9 ground traits wouldn't increase the actual power of my characters at all, because I already functionally have 9 space traits and 9 ground traits slotted, at the cost of about 2 minutes of clicking and frustration between missions.
Incidentally, I would also say that probably the Spec limit should be "One Primary, One Ground secondary, and one space secondary", just to, again, limit having to click buttons between missions - but in the case of specializations, it's only one click to swap from pilot to commando (or back), so it's not such a big deal.
Dev says they're considering giving us separate Ground and Space trait slots, something at the top of the wishlist of everyone who does both Ground and Space content.
What kind of jerk twists that into a negative thing, and ****s about it on the forums? And people wonder why devs avoid engaging in discussions on the forum.
I know, right? Separate ground and space character trait pools would be amazing. And so easy for them to implement. One of my top QoL requests. No more swapping, no more forgetting to swap, no more feeling lazy for not wanting to swap traits...
He said that about the autographs? Not to be a jerk, but autographs are probably a touchy subject they should avoid talking about, considering they ship discount is still busted from looking at the bugs subforum, and logic dictates that they'll probably only have 1 or 2 weeks at most to fix when they return from holidays.
Yea he did, a day or two before the WW went live this year.
OP, I suggest you leave talk about the specialization points out of what you actually quoted. With the specialization trees, we will have those permanently as long as we choose to use them. The system is still new and I don't see them doing anything to it. However, getting to what is in the quote...
Stephen Ricossa is talking about the traits like Elusive, Techie, etc. that we get pre-level 50. Like the Reputation system, he wants to split these into ground and space. As of right now, we have the following set up for all kinds of traits:
Trait slots: 3 at the start (4 if alien), 1 more slot added for every 10 levels up to level 60.
Starship Traits: Unlock at Level 50, 4 total slots.
Reputation Traits: Four passive ground, Four passive space, Four active powers.
I'm pretty sure at this point they are just actually talking about it. If they do implement it, I hope the split is big and even enough so we don't feel like we lose some traits.
... while loosing the option to use all your powers that you've earned because you could only slot a few , then enjoy grinding Argala ... , because your awards points and the powers they unlock may join the list of slottable powers that may become "optional" .
That is according to Stephen Riccosa , senior producer on STO , in an interview to the UFP fleet website :
I'm guessing that as they are looking own the road to expand the Specialization Traits , they see themselves repeating the same "mistake" of offering endless powers that stack up .
So they want to avoid the stack .
... then name of the game changed , but the game remained the same ... -- give'em power , then find a way to limit them and take that power back ...
I've been critical of Cryptic of late... but the OP takes the cake for the most assinine criticism ever. Complain all you want, but when Cryptic is actually thinking about about something that the majority... if not all... players actually want... and you complain about it... you're an TRIBBLE... or illiterate... or an illiterate TRIBBLE... I'll let the OP make the call which of the three fits.
For those that think they will get 10 space and 10 ground personal traits out of this please message me. I have a bridge here in Brooklyn you might be interested in purchasing. Bazinga!
Anything less than 10/10 is a nerf. Best scenario will be 5/5. Which really makes one wonder why they bothered grinding all those R&D traits.
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No worries, according to gecko there is no such thing as power creep in STO
I'm paraphrasing, but on a stream he basically said on a Q&A "now enemies are harder (more health), there won't be any more power creep"
As for spec point/traits/junk I can't say I'm surprised, if anything I'm sorta glad they're looking at it now rather than years later when everyone has several specialisation trees maxed out and very used to being trait-bloats.
For those that think they will get 10 space and 10 ground personal traits out of this please message me. I have a bridge here in Brooklyn you might be interested in purchasing. Bazinga!
Anything less than 10/10 is a nerf. Best scenario will be 5/5. Which really makes one wonder why they bothered grinding all those R&D traits.
I think we'll get 9 space traits and 9 ground traits, which is the same as we currently have provided you don't mind getting carpal tunnel syndrome between choosing space or ground combat.
It isn't your 10/10, but if you really want to make a bet on this, I'll take you up on it for EC of course.
I think we'll get 9 space traits and 9 ground traits, which is the same as we currently have provided you don't mind getting carpal tunnel syndrome between choosing space or ground combat.
It isn't your 10/10, but if you really want to make a bet on this, I'll take you up on it for EC of course.
Don't we get 10 at level 60?
Look at the UI. What fits? I believe the current UI has space for 15 traits? Or 16? I can see them doing maybe 8/8 and calling it a massive buff.
I dunno. My bet is still on 4/4 to fit the other trait types and call it the improvement we've been asking for.
Captain Jean-Luc Picard: "We think we've come so far. Torture of heretics, burning of witches, it's all ancient history. Then - before you can blink an eye - suddenly it threatens to start all over again."
"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."
Look at the UI. What fits? I believe the current UI has space for 15 traits? Or 16? I can see them doing maybe 8/8 and calling it a massive buff.
I dunno. My bet is still on 4/4 to fit the other trait types and call it the improvement we've been asking for.
Unless the UI is buggy for me, which is entirely possible. We get 9. Aliens get 10. In which case, my bet is 9 ground and 9 space for non-aliens, and 10 ground and 10 space for aliens.
If you want to make an EC bet, I'll take you up on it.
What most dont seem to understand: They dont think about making loadouts, but simply splitting them up, so that -history repeats- you can only have 4/4 (+1/2) traits active, which effectively means, they want to nerf things.
Aliens get 10...since they do not have a Species Trait (or two/etc)...others get 9 because of the Species Trait(s).
Which is where it would get tough in either scenario...how would they split them or how they would split them.
The Alien/Speices Trait might actually be something that will require some work by them. Aliens ahve a free choice, but species may have access to a special trait only they can get (but most take), but it may be useful in Space or in Ground.
Anyway, I honestly expect a reduction in numbers you can maximally get in one category. But I would be fine with that. Anything that makes the game more about choices rather than just slapping on extras is fine by me.
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What most dont seem to understand: They dont think about making loadouts, but simply splitting them up, so that -history repeats- you can only have 4/4 (+1/2) traits active, which effectively means, they want to nerf things.
I don't like what Cryptic has always done... but now you're just guessing to be a Cryptic hating bandwagoner. You have no idea what their plans are... because I guarentee that Cryptic doesn't have a plan yet... they haven't consulted the almighty Metric Oracle yet to see how they're going to TRIBBLE this up.
You may be right... like you said history has been known to repeat itself with Cryptic and it wouldn't surprise me if they did something this monumentally stupid.
But Cryptic has been known... on occasion... to do things right... so I wouldn't put it past them to do the 9/9 (10/10) split... but then leave the active traits (and obviously ship traits) not part of the equation.
Reading is hard. There is limits in place. Just like rep traits.
Right now is Intel, Pliot, and Commando. A spec that covers ground and space, one that covers space, and one that covers ground. How many of these specs can we use at once? The one that covers space and ground, and one other.
I can't see the future but I'm going to take a swing at it. We are going to get more specializations. Some with only cover ground or space. Some will cover both.
If they group passive Rep Traits with regular Traits, I'd expect at least 12 Space and 12 Ground slots to make up for the net loss of maximum equippable passive traits in either space or ground (taking into account that you could equip up to 9 Space or Ground traits to focus on one area, then add the 4 Rep Traits), with Aliens getting 13/13. Though realistically, 14/14 (15/15 for Aliens) is ideal.
Otherwise, if they remain separate, I don't mind if they cut down the number of available Space and Ground slots to 8/8, as long as they boost the available passive Rep slots by 2 for a total of 6/6 Space/Ground Rep trait slots.
Alternatively, they can set it as low as 8/8 total (passive Rep + regular traits), but let me buy additional Trait slots. 500 Zen for 2 trait slots; 1 Space and 1 Ground. Can be single-character purchases like Boff Slots. Maybe up to a total of 14/14 (15/15 for Aliens).
Comments
How would 18 slots increase power creep? Currently you can slot 9 space traits, or 9 ground traits, if you are bothered to spend the time. Giving 9/9 would just maintain the status quo, but make it more convenient.
4/4 would be a huge nerf from up to 9. Guess it would "force" people to go down the spec tree road to get their lost abilities and powers back.
Considering people have paid money for some of these traits (lockbox etc), reducing from being able to slot 9 would not be received well by the community (aiming for master of understatement land here).
There are no Specialization Traits. There are Starship Traits, including those Starship Traits that come from the Specialization system. They are already limited - you can only slot four. They are all Space. What mistake are they repeating?
If you're talking about the various buffs available from selecting a Primary and Secondary Specialization, those too are already limited by only being able to select a single Primary and a single Secondary Specialization. What mistake are they repeating?
Now, if you'd raised concerns about how the split of Space/Ground traits would take place in looking at both Personal and Active Reputation Traits (the Passive Reputation Traits are already split into Space and Ground)...wondering if they were going to split Active Reputation Traits into 2/2 from 4 and if they were going to split Personal Traits from 9-10 into 4/5 | 5/4 or 5/5 and the like...yeah, in the wording provided there it would be vague enough to see them perhaps doing something like that.
But what you actually suggest...er...uh...how on Earth did you draw that conclusion?
This is what I'm worried about. Every time they do something that looks like it would be beneficial to the players, they always find away to TRIBBLE us over. It wouldn't surprise me if they cut the amount of traits we could equip in half.
I wouldn't consider it a power creep. In my post I said THEY (being cryptic would say that). I mean if smirk said in a twitch live stream, (and he did during his Winter Invasion one), that doing anything to get autographs for next years ship would be considered an exploit. Why wouldn't they say that 18 slots is too much Power Creep.
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@ren_larreck
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No, I expect it to be buggy as hell and relatively untested, with the players forced to deal with the buggy UI until they get around to fixing it.
But at least it would be there and indicative of a signifigant quality-of-life improvement that players have been asking for.
and NO u cant haz my stuff
Ah - good point - I agree that they would probably label it Power Creep while they're nerfing it. Probably in some convoluted dev blog where they talk about how they are improving things for us. To be honest - I wish they had left traits alone - species traits should be freebies (giving reason to roll said species), and if you have to choose traits, then you have to develop your character.
He said that about the autographs? Not to be a jerk, but autographs are probably a touchy subject they should avoid talking about, considering they ship discount is still busted from looking at the bugs subforum, and logic dictates that they'll probably only have 1 or 2 weeks at most to fix when they return from holidays.
Actually that analogy is inapt, though, because I can see why having a notional rank of "Fleet Admiral" without any of the trappings of that rank is a bit irritating for people. What I can't understand is why anyone would be upset about the fact that new powers would be added such that they are entirely optional - if you like them better than your current specializations, you can switch over. If you don't, then simply don't grind up that new tree. Complaining that you "worked" to get that tree filled and now it's "invalid" is (and this analogy is I think perfectly apt) like complaining that you "bought" a ship you liked last year for real money, but now there's a new ship that you like MORE, and that means the old ship is "useless" since you can't use them both at the same time. I just don't think it's a valid complaint. You can still switch back to your old ship if you want to use it occasionally, just like you could swap back to your old specializations for some missions. You aren't losing access to something you've "earned", you're simply gaining the option to use something else instead.
As far as splitting Space and Ground - this is definitely something they should do, simply from a quality of life standpoint. The only reason I don't run more STFs than I currently do is I don't like swapping my traits out between missions - it's just an irritating hassle. I don't see any viable arguments against doing it - it's not actually power creep in any meaningful sense, since right now any competent player should (IMO) be adjusting traits based on the type of mission. Put simply, giving me 9 space and 9 ground traits wouldn't increase the actual power of my characters at all, because I already functionally have 9 space traits and 9 ground traits slotted, at the cost of about 2 minutes of clicking and frustration between missions.
Incidentally, I would also say that probably the Spec limit should be "One Primary, One Ground secondary, and one space secondary", just to, again, limit having to click buttons between missions - but in the case of specializations, it's only one click to swap from pilot to commando (or back), so it's not such a big deal.
I know, right? Separate ground and space character trait pools would be amazing. And so easy for them to implement. One of my top QoL requests. No more swapping, no more forgetting to swap, no more feeling lazy for not wanting to swap traits...
Doit Salami
Yea he did, a day or two before the WW went live this year.
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@ren_larreck
Stephen Ricossa is talking about the traits like Elusive, Techie, etc. that we get pre-level 50. Like the Reputation system, he wants to split these into ground and space. As of right now, we have the following set up for all kinds of traits:
Trait slots: 3 at the start (4 if alien), 1 more slot added for every 10 levels up to level 60.
Starship Traits: Unlock at Level 50, 4 total slots.
Reputation Traits: Four passive ground, Four passive space, Four active powers.
I'm pretty sure at this point they are just actually talking about it. If they do implement it, I hope the split is big and even enough so we don't feel like we lose some traits.
I've been critical of Cryptic of late... but the OP takes the cake for the most assinine criticism ever. Complain all you want, but when Cryptic is actually thinking about about something that the majority... if not all... players actually want... and you complain about it... you're an TRIBBLE... or illiterate... or an illiterate TRIBBLE... I'll let the OP make the call which of the three fits.
Anything less than 10/10 is a nerf. Best scenario will be 5/5. Which really makes one wonder why they bothered grinding all those R&D traits.
"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."
I'm paraphrasing, but on a stream he basically said on a Q&A "now enemies are harder (more health), there won't be any more power creep"
As for spec point/traits/junk I can't say I'm surprised, if anything I'm sorta glad they're looking at it now rather than years later when everyone has several specialisation trees maxed out and very used to being trait-bloats.
I think we'll get 9 space traits and 9 ground traits, which is the same as we currently have provided you don't mind getting carpal tunnel syndrome between choosing space or ground combat.
It isn't your 10/10, but if you really want to make a bet on this, I'll take you up on it for EC of course.
Don't we get 10 at level 60?
Look at the UI. What fits? I believe the current UI has space for 15 traits? Or 16? I can see them doing maybe 8/8 and calling it a massive buff.
I dunno. My bet is still on 4/4 to fit the other trait types and call it the improvement we've been asking for.
"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."
Aliens get 10...since they do not have a Species Trait (or two/etc)...others get 9 because of the Species Trait(s).
Which is where it would get tough in either scenario...how would they split them or how they would split them.
Unless the UI is buggy for me, which is entirely possible. We get 9. Aliens get 10. In which case, my bet is 9 ground and 9 space for non-aliens, and 10 ground and 10 space for aliens.
If you want to make an EC bet, I'll take you up on it.
The Alien/Speices Trait might actually be something that will require some work by them. Aliens ahve a free choice, but species may have access to a special trait only they can get (but most take), but it may be useful in Space or in Ground.
Anyway, I honestly expect a reduction in numbers you can maximally get in one category. But I would be fine with that. Anything that makes the game more about choices rather than just slapping on extras is fine by me.
I don't like what Cryptic has always done... but now you're just guessing to be a Cryptic hating bandwagoner. You have no idea what their plans are... because I guarentee that Cryptic doesn't have a plan yet... they haven't consulted the almighty Metric Oracle yet to see how they're going to TRIBBLE this up.
You may be right... like you said history has been known to repeat itself with Cryptic and it wouldn't surprise me if they did something this monumentally stupid.
But Cryptic has been known... on occasion... to do things right... so I wouldn't put it past them to do the 9/9 (10/10) split... but then leave the active traits (and obviously ship traits) not part of the equation.
More specializations are coming. Guess what many you will be able to use?
Reading is hard. There is limits in place. Just like rep traits.
Right now is Intel, Pliot, and Commando. A spec that covers ground and space, one that covers space, and one that covers ground. How many of these specs can we use at once? The one that covers space and ground, and one other.
I can't see the future but I'm going to take a swing at it. We are going to get more specializations. Some with only cover ground or space. Some will cover both.
Guess what? We are going to be limited.
If they group passive Rep Traits with regular Traits, I'd expect at least 12 Space and 12 Ground slots to make up for the net loss of maximum equippable passive traits in either space or ground (taking into account that you could equip up to 9 Space or Ground traits to focus on one area, then add the 4 Rep Traits), with Aliens getting 13/13. Though realistically, 14/14 (15/15 for Aliens) is ideal.
Otherwise, if they remain separate, I don't mind if they cut down the number of available Space and Ground slots to 8/8, as long as they boost the available passive Rep slots by 2 for a total of 6/6 Space/Ground Rep trait slots.
Alternatively, they can set it as low as 8/8 total (passive Rep + regular traits), but let me buy additional Trait slots. 500 Zen for 2 trait slots; 1 Space and 1 Ground. Can be single-character purchases like Boff Slots. Maybe up to a total of 14/14 (15/15 for Aliens).