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All I want for Christmas is a T6 Federation Dreadnought!
papesh1
Member Posts: 80 Arc User
With that monster Elachi Dreadnought coming out....It is time for the Federation to get its dreadnought. I have been waiting for one since the game come online.
Something that is massive and has firepower to match. Of course, the styling of the ship will project the might and technical prowess of the Federation. I don't want it to be a free ship because it will most likely be watered down and everyone will have it. So, I would be willing to pay.
What do you say Cryptic? Christmas is coming!
Something that is massive and has firepower to match. Of course, the styling of the ship will project the might and technical prowess of the Federation. I don't want it to be a free ship because it will most likely be watered down and everyone will have it. So, I would be willing to pay.
What do you say Cryptic? Christmas is coming!
Post edited by papesh1 on
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I say "Stop being greedy, and 'Gee Tee Eff Ohh' feddy bear...."
(I'm joking about that last line)
Or do you simply want a Fed Ship with the Dreadnought name at T6 to fool yourself that it truly deserves that title?
Which T6 Fed ship would that be?
If you don't see the firepower and capability of the 2 Fed T6 Cruisers, then I don't know what to tell you.
If Cryptic throws a "Dreadnought" name on a Lv40 Assault Cruiser, would that make you happy?
You know I completely forgot about that ship. It does indeed have saucer seperation and a hanger. Still, it's only T5U and it's BOff layout and stats can't hold a candle to this alien T6. No, I want a Star Fleet version of this new Elachi ship.
We will agree to disagree on this one. The Guardian and Eclipse are not in the same ball park as this Elachi Dreadnought. Perhaps the fleet version of these ships will be but not now. And besides, niether of them are Dreadnoughts.
Er, the Elachi ship is a gamble ship, it is suppose to be better then any Zen store ship, unless they decided heck with it and start selling $250 ships...
I know it's supposed to be better TRIBBLE. I'm saying I want a Star Fleet version of said ship because as a Star Fleet/Federation Officer I'd prefer NOT to be flying a non Federation ship.
What qualifies as a "Dreadnought" to you? What do you look for?
Which will be entertaining once we actually LOOK at ship stats than what Cryptic decides to name them.
The Guardian and Eclipse are not dreadnoughts. Stop being a dumbass.
What do you look for from a ship that's a "Dreadnought."
Honestly.
Or is it simply a name Cryptic throws on that suddenly makes it sound better than it really is?
A Dreadnought? A Battleship? You may want to look up naval history on the transition of "Dreadnought" to the "Battleship." Anyways, the role is the same but the jump in technology and firepower from the old Dreadnoughts to Battleships was quite notable. But we're veering off with that... So you're going from the idea that the ship has to have:
- Good Armor (ENG Consoles and I'm wagering heavy enough ENG BOFF ability. I'll throw in Hull & Shields too, for the sake of it)
- Firepower (TAC Console Count + TAC ability count)
- Size?... So the graphical size of the ship makes it powerful? Okay, let's play that game!
Do note that this merely to show that what you're looking for is already out there. It's not specifically a Avenger vs Eclipse vs Guardian thing. It's to show that a Fed "Dreadnought" already exists at T6 Fed.
"Good Armor"
T5U Fleet Avenger
47k base hull, Shield Mod 1.1
5 ENG Consoles
Cmdr ENG, Lt Universal, Lt SCI
- T5U, solid enough survivability even in Post-DR STO.
T6 Eclipse (Non-Fleet)
49k base hull, Shield Mod 1.0
5 ENG Consoles
Cmdr ENG/Intel Hybrid Station, LtCdr ENG
- Non-Fleet version so far but already a tad bit more hull than T5U Avenger. Enough survivability.
T6 Guardian (Non-Fleet)
55k base hull, Shield Mod 1.0
4 ENG Consoles
Cmdr ENG, Lt ENG/Intel Hybrid Station
- Non-Fleet version so far but very heavy hull and respectable enough 4 ENG Consoles.
The Guardian has a very heavy hull and good enough ENG Console slot count to support its tougness. Eclipse is lighter hulled (but more than Avenger) but already has its 5 ENG Console Slots. That Elachi "Dread" has a base hull of 42k and 4 ENG Consoles, BTW. Think about that...
Firepower
T5U Fleet Avenger
Weapons 5 fwd/3 aft, Dual Cannons Capable
4 TAC Consoles
LtCdr & Lt TAC
Cruiser Command for less weapons drain
- Still in the Post-DR game, a solid package. Forward heavy firepower. Just like how the Scimitar still can perform well, Avenger / Mogh can still dish it out.
T6 Eclipse (Non-Fleet)
Weapons 4 fwd/4 aft, Dual Cannons Capable
3 TAC Consoles
LtCdr TAC, Cmdr ENG/Intel Hybrid, Ens Universal, Lt SCI/Intel Hybrid
2 Cruiser Commands only but has the all important one for less weapons drain
- More even weapons layout. 3 TAC Consoles only so far, but make no mistake: The Hybrid BOFF stations provide tremendous flexibility for more firepower if you so choose. With full access to Intel, you got quite a bit of playroom for more offense oriented abilities like Surgical Strikes. Maybe something like Override Subsystem Safeties to supplement something like Emergency Power to Weapons or Shields.
T6 Guardian (Non-Fleet)
Weapons 4 fwd/4 aft, not Dual Cannons Capable
3 TAC Consoles
LtCdr TAC, Ens Universal, Lt ENG/Intel Hybrid station
Full array of Cruiser Commands
- TAC Console Count is passable and the TAC station is good enough. Far more than you could say of the other actual "Fed Dreadnought" already in the game. Not a full fledged Intel ship but the hybrid station gives degrees of playroom for more firepower, i.e. slotting Override Subsystem Safeties.
All 3 ships IMHO deal good firepower. The Avenger could, if you want, favor a forward heavy build like 4-5 DHCs forward. The other 2 are more traditional weapons layout but have offensive options that are new to the game (Intel). Do not underestimate the build flexibility the Hybrid Stations present, and most esp the Intel access the Eclipse has, esp towards more firepower. Technically, you could slot as much offense oriented skills on an Eclipse (with the weapons, hull, shields of a Cruiser) as you could on an Escort while still having a fixed LtCdr ENG station, which for this game, is more than enough for taking a pounding.
Imposing Size
Avenger - Very small ship.
Eclipse - Haven't you seen people ******** about how big Eclipses are? The "saucer" is as big as a bunch of ships out there.
Guardian - A rather large ship still.
Turn Rate: The wildcard
Avenger 9
Eclipse 10
Guardian 6
I brought this up because the ability of a ship to turn and handle factors a lot into many different things.
Offensively, the ability to move and turn into optimal firing positions and ranges for the fight. The Eclipse is great in this, the Guardian less so. The Avenger is good enough, and if you beamboat her, it's more than enough. The Eclipse moves and handles well enough that DHC play is smooth and beamboating is a LOL good time.
Defensively, the ability to move and turn into positions to not take the full brunt of dmg is a factor. Avenger and Eclipse are good in this, most esp the Eclipse. The Guardian less so, but she's built like a tank (that still has LtCdr TAC, BTW).
Now, I know you wanted firepower, armor, but didn't say which is more important for your T6 "Fed Dread."
** The Eclipse has unquestionably more firepower potential. She moves so much nicer. Lighter in build than the Guardian but has way more than enough survivability for STO. The Intel abilities make her a hard hitting performer that has the survivability of a Cruiser.
** The Guardian is much tougher, esp if you consider that LtCdr SCI station it has. You don't have to slot GW on it like a lot will be tempted to do. You could go:
PH1, HE2, TSS3 - Very tough build
or
PH1, HE2, EnSiphon2 - Hmm... More energy for your ship? On top of EPTx abilities and running OSS? Quite doable and all that energy will make overall ship performance humm that much better.
In the end, both the Eclipse and Guardian offer a whole lot of firepower and survivability. The question is which part of it means more to you? You see, you don't need Cryptic to throw a ship with "Dreadnought" into T6. The existing ones already already at T6 fill that role. They're tough as nails and can dish out firepower.
And I fly the T5U Gal-X, as I have been a driver of it since its introduction. Having flaws in design is fun... there should definitely be no "I Win" button of a Federation starship.
While the Federation in canon likes to talk about peace, exploration (despite some in canon sharp inconsistencies but that's another thread altogether
Firstly, ENT established the Federation was founded on the basic premise of a military alliance against a powerful threat.
Secondly, the Federation is the largest political and military power in the traditional Star Trek home quadrants. Any student of history knows that a large power cannot help but run into some sort of problem because its interests will conflict with others. Star Trek in TOS & TNG is filled with alluding to past events of crises that have to be settled. And a Starfleet capable of war at any time is important for safeguarding the Federation and its interests. TOS & TNG are also filled with examples of the heroes being sent to a crisis and avoid a war. Again, Starfleet must be ready to fight at any time in case **** hits the fan.
Thirdly, the Federation regardless of what it says, has repeatedly found itself at war. Again, TOS & TNG allude to numerous past skirmishes and outright wars. Wars with the Klingons, Romulans, Cardassians, and the cataclysmic Dominion War of DS9. TNG alludes to smaller conflicts, i.e. against the Sheliak.
With all this in mind, Starfleet is always in a war footing. It's interests, its borders are too broad and will easily conflict with something. Sooner or later you'll run into someone, something that will not see eye to eye with you, and no amount of sweet talking will prevent some fighting to occur. Starfleet must always be ready for these occasions, because the Federation's own history demands it. For the Federation, it's not a matter if war occurs. It's so big that it's a matter of when. It doesn't produce ships like the insane rates like it did with the Dominion War, but it must always have vessels capable of war.
The Galaxy-class may have all been about diplomacy, exploration, etc. But make no mistake, she was a beast capable of fighting. The Sovereign-class was cutting edge technology. Tough and filled to the brim with the best the Federation could offer in terms of protection and firepower. That's not a fleet with the main purpose of exploration. That's a fleet made to be able to defend the Federation.
But before that, I would like a KDF T6 BoP and a Romulan T6 Science ship.
TY god somebody finally gets that a dreadnought is NOT IN THE SAME LEAGUE as a battleship FFS people enough nonsense already a battleship will clean the clock of a dreadnought...using Janes Fighting ships as a reference Dreadnoughts always give up gun size and armor for speed and maneuverability to the KING OF THE BATTLEFIELD .....THE BATTLESHIP.....ugggg fine google hms dreadnought ....she was the first of her kind and started all this nonsense ....then look up the I.J.S. Yamato and her sister ship the Musashi........then after you read it bow your head in respect to them ....you are in the presence of true greatness ...
Interestingly, the Devs did say there'd be a possibility of adding Saucer Separation and a possible -X dreadnought version of the Guardian a few times.
What I'd like to see as far as T6 Dreadnoughts go (preferably all; I'd pay money for more massive Fed ships):
Guardian-X Dreadnought - Console Super Lance; has two built-in firing modes: Narrow and Spread. Does NOT require Saucer Separation; instead works more like the Dual/Multi-Vector abilities (use one and the other automatically goes into Cooldown). Can either use the Odyssey's Chevron Separation or the Galaxy-X's Saucer Separation. Pets entirely optional. And 4 Nacelles. NOT 3. Either enlarge the two Pylon Nacelles or have two vertical pylons with full-sized nacelles on them come up from where those built-in Nacelles would be. 2 or 4 Nacelles. Not 3.
Jupiter Dreadnoughts - 3 Variants preferably; one Tac Cannon Broadsider (similar to the Vaadwaur), one Eng Siege Dread (with a fixed built-in mega lance), and one Sci Defiant "Frigate" Super Carrier (2 or 3 Hangars). I posted a more detailed suggestion in the Support Typhoon and Jupiter thread.
Odyssey-X Dreadnought - Similar to the Guardian X suggestion; but instead let it have a similar double nacelle configuration like the Typhoon. As well, the Lance is built-in though it retains the double-firing mode instead of being tied to a console, since it already has a 3-set Console.
Typhoon Battleship - While not a dreadnought, it's worth mentioning as it's a pure warship. Let it take the place of the Avenger, but larger, meaner, and deadlier. And preferably with more customization than the Avenger and Odyssey.
Seriously, how can people be so obsessive about terminology? Starfleet uses cruisers almost exclusively and of those the majority is simply classified as Starships, Starcruisers or Cruisers with minor differences in mass and mission profiles. The biggest ships are classified as "Explorers". That's the terminology and mindset behind Starfleet, STO being an arcade shooter game should not change that in my opinion. Just stick some tape on your monitor and write "Dreadnaught Superbattleship" on it while you wear whatever uniform you used to wear in the service you have been or currently are.
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Oh, take my money! :P
Does it matter if a ship is stronger than another if both meet the above criteria? What's the point in flying a higher dps or harder tanked ship apart from the DPS channel? Do you measure your worth by your dps number?
The guardian, eclipse and avenger can all do elite stfs comfortably, so what if the elachi dread does more dps, does it actually change anything?
It reminds me of the games children play when they say 'My dad is better than your dad'.
New ships are great, don't get me wrong, but what is it with this obsession for ships that do not fit the design philosophy of a particular faction? There are ships like what you want out there that fed characters can fly but just because it doesn't have a fed sticker on it it's unacceptable.
Meanwhile the Roms don't have a proper sci ship (funny because lore wise the roms love their science) and KDF doesn't have a T6 BoP or Carrier. Not to mention both roms and kdf only have a 3rd of the t6 ships the feds have access to.
But no we must have more fed ships whine whine whine. Perpsectivium, rarest element in the universe.
Dreadnought is like "cruiser" --- its a meaningless word in STO. It just means it has a physically large sized geometric model.
Eng consoles? Give me a break. The scim dread has 2 eng consoles. It has a LT engineer. The KDF fleet VQ carrier was once considered to be a gigantic dreadnought type ship as well, and it is nothing like any of the others.
I don't care what the feds get, in the long run, have at it. And I don't care what words are poked into the titles of the ships either. But I swear to you here and now that if the feds get another ship before the KDF gets a new t6, I will never spend another cent on this game. I won't stop playing, but the money will be done, and nothing they can ever do will change my mind once that happens.
Why should an average player care more about trek than the devs?
It SHOULD be Cryptics job to stay as close to trek as possible, not ours IMO. As many others (and you too) have already said, Cryptics devs use any terminology they like as long as the new shiny ship sounds cool to them.