Lol no. The Scimitar can either run a full a2b build, or 2 copies of BFAW3 + APB3. Also, the scimitar have frigate that can use BFAW (crazy good skill on a pet). On the elachi, you can't run APB3, and you can't have 2 BFAW3. As for the pets, while they seems good, CRF is not that good on a pet, because they tend to hug the target and fire the turrets only. The torp spread however could be interesting, but they'll likely use it as soon as they undock, and waste the full effect of it.
Also, you have 5 tac console on a scimi.
While good, this ship is not close to the OPness of the scimitard.
I'm sorry my friend but it's the other way around, the scim is not even close to the op'ness of this new ship. So what if you can run APB3 or 2 BFAW3, the intel boff abilities will more then make up for that. Also any ship can can run duel cannons should, you can get turn rate of even the slowest turning ships good enough for cannons with mk14 gold rcs's (+50% turn per console), so bfaw is worthless.
I'm sorry my friend but it's the other way around, the scim is not even close to the op'ness of this new ship. So what if you can run APB3 or 2 BFAW3, the intel boff abilities will more then make up for that. Also any ship can can run duel cannons should, you can get turn rate of even the slowest turning ships good enough for cannons with mk14 gold rcs's (+50% turn per console), so bfaw is worthless.
I'm sorry but you're wrong for so many reasons and erei is right...
First off...APB3 and dual BFAW 3 are big...in PvE I don't see a single target ability out dpsing a AoE ability when AoE is the king of DPS.
Second...BFAW is the king of DPS...sure you can throw cannons on it and multiple RCS consoles but then you're taking up slots which can be used for universal consoles. You're living in the past if you think cannons are still top DPS.
Third...that would require lots of resources to get multiple RCS consoles to epic and people don't like spending all those resources.
Finally...the Scimitar has the superior frigate, 5th tac console, and battlecloak...I don't see how with all of this so many people are saying this ship will out OP the Scimitar.
I'm sorry my friend but it's the other way around, the scim is not even close to the op'ness of this new ship. So what if you can run APB3 or 2 BFAW3, the intel boff abilities will more then make up for that. Also any ship can can run duel cannons should, you can get turn rate of even the slowest turning ships good enough for cannons with mk14 gold rcs's (+50% turn per console), so bfaw is worthless.
I wouldn't say BFAW is useless but, what the other was saying was the added use of that skill by the Drone frigates, is what helps put some more oomph into the dps rating of the Scimitar, while the hangar pets for the Elachi vessel are more tightly focused attacks.
Either way, I foresee the vessel being a mean sucker no matter what!
I'm sorry but you're wrong for so many reasons and erei is right...
First off...APB3 and dual BFAW 3 are big...in PvE I don't see a single target ability out dpsing a AoE ability when AoE is the king of DPS.
Second...BFAW is the king of DPS...sure you can throw cannons on it and multiple RCS consoles but then you're taking up slots which can be used for universal consoles. You're living in the past if you think cannons are still top DPS.
Third...that would require lots of resources to get multiple RCS consoles to epic and people don't like spending all those resources.
Finally...the Scimitar has the superior frigate, 5th tac console, and battlecloak...I don't see how with all of this so many people are saying this ship will out OP the Scimitar.
That's easy, Scimitar is t5 or t5-u, new elachi ship is t6 and t6 is stronger then any t5 don't matter how you want it to be otherwise or what excuse you want to use.
That's easy, Scimitar is t5 or t5-u, new elachi ship is t6 and t6 is stronger then any t5 don't matter how you want it to be otherwise or what excuse you want to use.
I guess you are talking PvE ...
So, let's see : 1 tac console less, 1 commander tac slot less which means no APO3 ( why u all APB3 when you can APB1? ) and 1 overall console less for what? ionic turbulence 1? ( If i remember well the stats ... )
Doesn't seem so OP as the Scimi to me ... then again I don't know the pets, and I don't know how that trait would work with the new torp but as of now on paper ...
The game is in shambles, players are leaving, there is a general feeling of discontent with a lot of the DR content (not all of it) so how do we approach it?
Fix the content? Listen to the players? Nope..
We release a stupidly powerful Lock Box Ship. That fixes everything!
Why? Because they will make tons of money without having to actually fix anything. People are going to spend a fortune on keys opening box after box trying to get this ship.
Crypitc will make a fortune, the game still won't get fixed and DR will still be continued a success.
I had a feeling they were going to do something like this. I'm not even going to bother telling people not to fall for it because we all know it won't work. Have fun spending all your money on keys, hope it works out for you.
The game is in shambles, players are leaving, there is a general feeling of discontent with a lot of the DR content (not all of it) so how do we approach it?
Fix the content? Listen to the players? Nope..
We release a stupidly powerful Lock Box Ship. That fixes everything!
Why? Because they will make tons of money without having to actually fix anything. People are going to spend a fortune on keys opening box after box trying to get this ship.
Crypitc will make a fortune, the game still won't get fixed and DR will still be continued a success.
I had a feeling they were going to do something like this. I'm not even going to bother telling people not to fall for it because we all know it won't work. Have fun spending all your money on keys, hope it works out for you.
The game is in shambles, players are leaving, there is a general feeling of discontent with a lot of the DR content (not all of it) so how do we approach it?
Fix the content? Listen to the players? Nope..
We release a stupidly powerful Lock Box Ship. That fixes everything!
Why? Because they will make tons of money without having to actually fix anything. People are going to spend a fortune on keys opening box after box trying to get this ship.
Crypitc will make a fortune, the game still won't get fixed and DR will still be continued a success.
I had a feeling they were going to do something like this. I'm not even going to bother telling people not to fall for it because we all know it won't work. Have fun spending all your money on keys, hope it works out for you.
Ships are planned months in advance. Release schedules are set in stone months in advance. You can't stop the presses because someone is unhappy with your typeface... you've got to keep things rolling along, while collecting feedback and developing your plan of action. Fixes will come, but not as soon as we'd like. Meanwhile, all the content that is completed and ready to roll is going to go ahead and come out.
Sardak (Science Officer): Captain of a 23k DPS R'Mor Temporal Science Vessel, R.R.W. Vathos Odan Brota (Science Officer): Captain of a 28k DPS Scryer Intel Science Vessel, U.S.S. Kepler Patiently waiting for a Romulan Science Vessel
Ships are planned months in advance. Release schedules are set in stone months in advance. You can't stop the presses because someone is unhappy with your typeface... you've got to keep things rolling along, while collecting feedback and developing your plan of action. Fixes will come, but not as soon as we'd like. Meanwhile, all the content that is completed and ready to roll is going to go ahead and come out.
Those do be some might fine lips you have there kissing TRIBBLE across the internet.
I'm divided on this, to be honest. I do like the design of Elachi ships, but I'm not falling for more low droprate bull****. Of course, I could always use more R&D mats, and the lobi is nice too.
...
Wait, I'm being stupid. I think I'll see how it fares on the exchange before I decide what to do. :P
Ships are planned months in advance. Release schedules are set in stone months in advance. You can't stop the presses because someone is unhappy with your typeface... you've got to keep things rolling along, while collecting feedback and developing your plan of action. Fixes will come, but not as soon as we'd like. Meanwhile, all the content that is completed and ready to roll is going to go ahead and come out.
How do you actually KNOW any of the information you have just stated?
How do you actually KNOW any of the information you have just stated?
I'll answer for you: You don't.
Sadly, the lockbox ship already sailed long ago, and they will remain until banned by law. The best thing we can do is avoid opening up lock boxes. It's not worth getting angry over anymore, trust me.
And you don't? You think they just design new ships over night?
Sure I can see it..."Hey listen up design team...I want a new Federation Escort" "Sure will have it ready for you tomorrow boss"
Yup....that scenario seems very logical. :rolleyes:
P.S. Not to mention that we already knew the Sheshar was coming weeks ago.
They have templates to use, just have to change the code settings per the type of ship being release. What takes time yes is the design graphic wise and then ship would need to be tested. I still think they can take the existing popular ships and beef in specs. So when they do a patch those ships that players use will get the instant update!
That's if they wanted too. But would make a nice Holiday gift to all the players still left here though!
I cry your pardon if I've offend you are your friend in any way.
Not my friend...just seemed very rude...we knew the Sheshar was coming weeks ago just like the Sarr Theln so it's not like Cryptic just pulled the Sheshar out of their backside this weekend.
I'm divided on this, to be honest. I do like the design of Elachi ships, but I'm not falling for more low droprate bull****. Of course, I could always use more R&D mats, and the lobi is nice too.
...
Wait, I'm being stupid. I think I'll see how it fares on the exchange before I decide what to do. :P
The DilEx already went up by several points due to people hoarding zen to buy packs.
Ships are planned months in advance. Release schedules are set in stone months in advance. You can't stop the presses because someone is unhappy with your typeface... you've got to keep things rolling along, while collecting feedback and developing your plan of action. Fixes will come, but not as soon as we'd like. Meanwhile, all the content that is completed and ready to roll is going to go ahead and come out.
Ok, lets assume for one moment that your assumption.. and it is an assumption is correct.
Lets assume, as you have, that ships are planned months in advance and given a set release date.
If that's so, then give me a reason why with the game being in the state that it is, would that release date be so vital? In other words, why could the developers not decide to wait another couple weeks to prioritize fixes in the game and improvements in player experience before releasing a ship they want people to pay for?
There is no reason why this ship must release today or tomorrow. If it released in 1 or 2 weeks, what difference would it make? There is no harm in dealing with pressing issues currently plaguing the game before asking people to shell out more money. In fact, it's a much more responsible business practice. If the ship is done, it's done.. there is no reason why it's release needs to be prioritized over more pressing issues.
As it sits right now, I and many others see a game in flux and instead of getting interaction from the developers and progress in fixing the problems, we're getting a new super ship that everyone can pay to have a chance to get. Instead of trying to make money by putting out a good game, they're releasing shiny new ships as a financial band aid to keep the coffers full while the game goes to hell.
I'm sorry, but I'm not happy about that, and I'm not falling for it.
For Feds, this lovely new ship could potentially rival the Scimitar despite not being able to run double abilities; mainly due to the Phantom and Eclipse Masteries.
+ Phantom and Eclipse Masteries to fast-cool Tac/Intel abilities and increase Def with each Tac/Intel ability use respectively.
+ Delta Console for a bit extra Boff ability cooldown
+ Defense and Attack-boosting Traits to further max evasiveness and/or do more damage
+ Intel and Pilot Specialization/Sub-Specialization passives to defense
+ Trained Defense/Attack points to capitalize on both defense and offense
All this can make even Big Fugging Ships evade like an Escort, and with each avoided attack, can bring down most all Tactical/Intel abilities to global. Maybe with a Doff or two to assist with CDs.
Might not do the same level of DPS as a dedicated DPScimitar, but I can see the sheer damage potential a Fed Min-Maxer can do.
Personally, I find it'll be fun to try out Bio-Disruptors + CC Tactical Console and the Delta Torp + Delta Console and go for an even more offense-oriented Radiation build. Or if that doesn't work out, fall back to my beloved Elachi Disruptors. I'd just have to save up Lobi for the Elachi boosted set. I wonder if HY can work with the Elachi Torpedo, and if so, would make that Elachi Mastery worthwhile.
The potential of seeing it used with RomPlas and the Rom/Reman 2-piece ship set is also mouth-watering. Same for Gravimetric and Biomolecular Torps.
Ok, lets assume for one moment that your assumption.. and it is an assumption is correct.
Lets assume, as you have, that ships are planned months in advance and given a set release date.
...stuff...
I'm sorry, but I'm not happy about that, and I'm not falling for it.
Full disclosure: I work in the video game industry and have done so for 15 years, for four different studios--though never for Cryptic or Perfect World.
My guess is that the team in charge of releasing new content is not the same as the team for fixing the old stuff. So they're not taking away from fixing things that are wrong with the game by releasing ships that they've no doubt had in the making for weeks, if not months. It's not a matter of just tweaking some code on a template somewhere. They can do that, but they have to then test the ship's design in play, create concept art, concept models, create the points where the different beams and cannons come from, tweak the turn rate and animations, make alternate textures for different shields, etc. Then they likely evaluate the ship, maybe focus test it, write the text for the website, and edit the R&D pack code to have a chance to give the ship. And that's pretty much just the highlights.
While it's not as difficult or time-consuming as creating a new game from scratch, shipping a new story expansion, or creating a new STF, it's not a trivial amount of work. I can, off the top of my head, see the whole process taking a month from concept to final release, if not more. Say, how long has Delta Rising been out?
Besides, the health of a free-to-play game is partially in the size of its audience, and partially in the frequency of new content, special events, and sales. If people who are considering subscribing or going Lifetime see that they're dropping new ships on a regular basis, they're more likely to pull the trigger and stick with the game.
On top of that, it's possible (note: possible) that the fate of STO isn't as dire as people here want to present it as being. I for one am playing as much as, if not more than, I had been. I thoroughly enjoy the Delta Rising content, and I don't seem to be having trouble getting queues for the STFs I want to run or Fleet Invites every hour or two. I know people are angry about this and that, but any game's forums are an echo chamber, and in general only the people who are angry spend time posting their thoughts on official forums.
Feel free to flame away; while I can't speak with certainty on what Cryptic's thinking, I can speak from a LOT of experience as to how the video game industry works. People think all the studio's resources are in one pool, that complicated processes take roughly as long as it takes to describe them out loud, and that a game company trying to make a money on an awesome game they give away (mostly) for free is an unforgivable evil scheme. I promise that none of those things are true.
[presume]
the team in charge of releasing new content is not the same as the team for fixing the old stuff. . .
they're not taking away from fixing things that are wrong with the game by releasing ship. . .
how long has Delta Rising been out? . . .
the fate of STO isn't as dire as people here want to present it as being.
How many people remember a thread where Cryptic said they were having to merge THREE (3) testing groups worth of code in order to remove inconsistencies.
Now, for the player side:
How many of you are Spening USD / Euro / Etc. for game content, vs "Grinding Dilithium for Zen" (which nets ZERO to pay for programming staff salaries.) to obtain new content.
Who is paying for the new content people want?
Being one of the few still around who can remember Pre-release and Season 1.. btw I am a lifer with both Romulan Legacy and Delta Rising... I don't hear many people contributing to the product. Everyone I hear says "I'll just go grind some Dilithium to buy "X".
Being one of the few still around who can remember Pre-release and Season 1.. btw I am a lifer with both Romulan Legacy and Delta Rising... I don't hear many people contributing to the product. Everyone I hear says "I'll just go grind some Dilithium to buy "X".
Something to think about.
I'm a lifer, too... Just took the bait a month or so ago. I've thus far done a combination of grinding Dilithium and buying Zen with money. The thing is, the Zen on the Exchange doesn't exist unless someone has bought some with money. As I understand it, the only way you can trade Dilithium for Zen is if someone has offered to pay Zen for Dilithium... and that means someone has to have paid money for that Zen, at some point, or got it through their stipend, which means they're subscribing or paid for a lifetime subscription. In either case, Cryptic got paid.
I got some of my Zen through surveys/offers (just bought the Odyssey pack), but even that pays Cryptic/PWE, in that they're paid by the survey people.
Anyway, as far as I know, you can't just grind Dilithium to create Zen out of thin air. Someone opened their wallet or typed in their credit card info at some point along that chain.
Comments
Agreed, something tells me it's only going to be out in limited numbers though.
I'm sorry my friend but it's the other way around, the scim is not even close to the op'ness of this new ship. So what if you can run APB3 or 2 BFAW3, the intel boff abilities will more then make up for that. Also any ship can can run duel cannons should, you can get turn rate of even the slowest turning ships good enough for cannons with mk14 gold rcs's (+50% turn per console), so bfaw is worthless.
I'm sorry but you're wrong for so many reasons and erei is right...
First off...APB3 and dual BFAW 3 are big...in PvE I don't see a single target ability out dpsing a AoE ability when AoE is the king of DPS.
Second...BFAW is the king of DPS...sure you can throw cannons on it and multiple RCS consoles but then you're taking up slots which can be used for universal consoles. You're living in the past if you think cannons are still top DPS.
Third...that would require lots of resources to get multiple RCS consoles to epic and people don't like spending all those resources.
Finally...the Scimitar has the superior frigate, 5th tac console, and battlecloak...I don't see how with all of this so many people are saying this ship will out OP the Scimitar.
I wouldn't say BFAW is useless but, what the other was saying was the added use of that skill by the Drone frigates, is what helps put some more oomph into the dps rating of the Scimitar, while the hangar pets for the Elachi vessel are more tightly focused attacks.
Either way, I foresee the vessel being a mean sucker no matter what!
Praetor of the -RTS- Romulan Tal Shiar fleet!
That's easy, Scimitar is t5 or t5-u, new elachi ship is t6 and t6 is stronger then any t5 don't matter how you want it to be otherwise or what excuse you want to use.
I guess you are talking PvE ...
So, let's see : 1 tac console less, 1 commander tac slot less which means no APO3 ( why u all APB3 when you can APB1? ) and 1 overall console less for what? ionic turbulence 1? ( If i remember well the stats ... )
Doesn't seem so OP as the Scimi to me ... then again I don't know the pets, and I don't know how that trait would work with the new torp but as of now on paper ...
Almost called it.
... Long time ago in a timeline far far away ...
Agreed. Still don't understand why a Federation Officer would captain a non Federation ship.
The game is in shambles, players are leaving, there is a general feeling of discontent with a lot of the DR content (not all of it) so how do we approach it?
Fix the content? Listen to the players? Nope..
We release a stupidly powerful Lock Box Ship. That fixes everything!
Why? Because they will make tons of money without having to actually fix anything. People are going to spend a fortune on keys opening box after box trying to get this ship.
Crypitc will make a fortune, the game still won't get fixed and DR will still be continued a success.
I had a feeling they were going to do something like this. I'm not even going to bother telling people not to fall for it because we all know it won't work. Have fun spending all your money on keys, hope it works out for you.
Well said.
Ships are planned months in advance. Release schedules are set in stone months in advance. You can't stop the presses because someone is unhappy with your typeface... you've got to keep things rolling along, while collecting feedback and developing your plan of action. Fixes will come, but not as soon as we'd like. Meanwhile, all the content that is completed and ready to roll is going to go ahead and come out.
Odan Brota (Science Officer): Captain of a 28k DPS Scryer Intel Science Vessel, U.S.S. Kepler
Patiently waiting for a Romulan Science Vessel
Those do be some might fine lips you have there kissing TRIBBLE across the internet.
...
Wait, I'm being stupid. I think I'll see how it fares on the exchange before I decide what to do. :P
Wow...just telling the truth and you call him that? You can take what he is supposedly kissing...add a hat and that's what you are for being so rude.
How do you actually KNOW any of the information you have just stated?
I'll answer for you: You don't.
Free Tibet!
And you don't? You think they just design new ships over night?
Sure I can see it..."Hey listen up design team...I want a new Federation Escort" "Sure will have it ready for you tomorrow boss"
Yup....that scenario seems very logical. :rolleyes:
P.S. Not to mention that we already knew the Sheshar was coming weeks ago.
He and I are equally uninformed. I, however, do not go around acting like I have inside knowledge.
Free Tibet!
Sadly, the lockbox ship already sailed long ago, and they will remain until banned by law. The best thing we can do is avoid opening up lock boxes. It's not worth getting angry over anymore, trust me.
They have templates to use, just have to change the code settings per the type of ship being release. What takes time yes is the design graphic wise and then ship would need to be tested. I still think they can take the existing popular ships and beef in specs. So when they do a patch those ships that players use will get the instant update!
That's if they wanted too. But would make a nice Holiday gift to all the players still left here though!
Time will only tell!
I cry your pardon if I've offend you are your friend in any way.
Not my friend...just seemed very rude...we knew the Sheshar was coming weeks ago just like the Sarr Theln so it's not like Cryptic just pulled the Sheshar out of their backside this weekend.
My character Tsin'xing
Too bad we have less than a half of a percent chance to get one of these :eek:
Ok, lets assume for one moment that your assumption.. and it is an assumption is correct.
Lets assume, as you have, that ships are planned months in advance and given a set release date.
If that's so, then give me a reason why with the game being in the state that it is, would that release date be so vital? In other words, why could the developers not decide to wait another couple weeks to prioritize fixes in the game and improvements in player experience before releasing a ship they want people to pay for?
There is no reason why this ship must release today or tomorrow. If it released in 1 or 2 weeks, what difference would it make? There is no harm in dealing with pressing issues currently plaguing the game before asking people to shell out more money. In fact, it's a much more responsible business practice. If the ship is done, it's done.. there is no reason why it's release needs to be prioritized over more pressing issues.
As it sits right now, I and many others see a game in flux and instead of getting interaction from the developers and progress in fixing the problems, we're getting a new super ship that everyone can pay to have a chance to get. Instead of trying to make money by putting out a good game, they're releasing shiny new ships as a financial band aid to keep the coffers full while the game goes to hell.
I'm sorry, but I'm not happy about that, and I'm not falling for it.
+ Phantom and Eclipse Masteries to fast-cool Tac/Intel abilities and increase Def with each Tac/Intel ability use respectively.
+ Delta Console for a bit extra Boff ability cooldown
+ Defense and Attack-boosting Traits to further max evasiveness and/or do more damage
+ Intel and Pilot Specialization/Sub-Specialization passives to defense
+ Trained Defense/Attack points to capitalize on both defense and offense
All this can make even Big Fugging Ships evade like an Escort, and with each avoided attack, can bring down most all Tactical/Intel abilities to global. Maybe with a Doff or two to assist with CDs.
Might not do the same level of DPS as a dedicated DPScimitar, but I can see the sheer damage potential a Fed Min-Maxer can do.
Personally, I find it'll be fun to try out Bio-Disruptors + CC Tactical Console and the Delta Torp + Delta Console and go for an even more offense-oriented Radiation build. Or if that doesn't work out, fall back to my beloved Elachi Disruptors. I'd just have to save up Lobi for the Elachi boosted set. I wonder if HY can work with the Elachi Torpedo, and if so, would make that Elachi Mastery worthwhile.
The potential of seeing it used with RomPlas and the Rom/Reman 2-piece ship set is also mouth-watering. Same for Gravimetric and Biomolecular Torps.
Full disclosure: I work in the video game industry and have done so for 15 years, for four different studios--though never for Cryptic or Perfect World.
My guess is that the team in charge of releasing new content is not the same as the team for fixing the old stuff. So they're not taking away from fixing things that are wrong with the game by releasing ships that they've no doubt had in the making for weeks, if not months. It's not a matter of just tweaking some code on a template somewhere. They can do that, but they have to then test the ship's design in play, create concept art, concept models, create the points where the different beams and cannons come from, tweak the turn rate and animations, make alternate textures for different shields, etc. Then they likely evaluate the ship, maybe focus test it, write the text for the website, and edit the R&D pack code to have a chance to give the ship. And that's pretty much just the highlights.
While it's not as difficult or time-consuming as creating a new game from scratch, shipping a new story expansion, or creating a new STF, it's not a trivial amount of work. I can, off the top of my head, see the whole process taking a month from concept to final release, if not more. Say, how long has Delta Rising been out?
Besides, the health of a free-to-play game is partially in the size of its audience, and partially in the frequency of new content, special events, and sales. If people who are considering subscribing or going Lifetime see that they're dropping new ships on a regular basis, they're more likely to pull the trigger and stick with the game.
On top of that, it's possible (note: possible) that the fate of STO isn't as dire as people here want to present it as being. I for one am playing as much as, if not more than, I had been. I thoroughly enjoy the Delta Rising content, and I don't seem to be having trouble getting queues for the STFs I want to run or Fleet Invites every hour or two. I know people are angry about this and that, but any game's forums are an echo chamber, and in general only the people who are angry spend time posting their thoughts on official forums.
Feel free to flame away; while I can't speak with certainty on what Cryptic's thinking, I can speak from a LOT of experience as to how the video game industry works. People think all the studio's resources are in one pool, that complicated processes take roughly as long as it takes to describe them out loud, and that a game company trying to make a money on an awesome game they give away (mostly) for free is an unforgivable evil scheme. I promise that none of those things are true.
How many people remember a thread where Cryptic said they were having to merge THREE (3) testing groups worth of code in order to remove inconsistencies.
Now, for the player side:
How many of you are Spening USD / Euro / Etc. for game content, vs "Grinding Dilithium for Zen" (which nets ZERO to pay for programming staff salaries.) to obtain new content.
Who is paying for the new content people want?
Being one of the few still around who can remember Pre-release and Season 1.. btw I am a lifer with both Romulan Legacy and Delta Rising... I don't hear many people contributing to the product. Everyone I hear says "I'll just go grind some Dilithium to buy "X".
Something to think about.
I'm a lifer, too... Just took the bait a month or so ago.
I got some of my Zen through surveys/offers (just bought the Odyssey pack), but even that pays Cryptic/PWE, in that they're paid by the survey people.
Anyway, as far as I know, you can't just grind Dilithium to create Zen out of thin air. Someone opened their wallet or typed in their credit card info at some point along that chain.