The reason I always thought was perhaps because of an agreement with Abrams and Paramount to downplay certain merchandise to give the new product room to grow.
STO predates JJ Trek. I think even the first Retrofits predate it.
Star Trek Online Advancement: You start with lowbie gear, you end with Lobi gear.
This only holds water if Cryptic isn't lying to us.
We only have their word what CBS said.
It could just be the dev's own prejudice with a lie about CBS saying no to support it.
It's not like they've ever lied to us..... :rolleyes:
This is pretty much where I'm standing on this topic. Until we see an official statement from CBS/CBS representative, I have to take what Cryptic says with a grain of salt. I'm not saying they are lying about this, but it wouldn't be the first time they flat out lied about something.
I've never really understood why these people need T5 connies, but I'm guessing its the same subset of the population who need their Galaxy class to be stronger. None of the reasoning makes sense, but my guess on it is:
In the early days CBS really said no to having an end game Constitution class ship; as the game became more and more ridiculous with nobody flying Starfleet ships anymore they never revisited that topic with CBS again.
From the previous sales of Galaxy/Intrepid/Defiant I'm betting that the die hards who would actually buy a newly launched Constitution class ship that is underpowered (all hero ships are) wouldn't be that profittable.
Cryptic wouldn't pass up the assload of cash they would make releasing an endgame level Connie.
I wanted to post that, but you beat me to it.
I don't exactly know why Cryptic isn't allowed to make a T5-6 connie, but I'm sure they would have done it a long time ago if they could. They are not the kind of guy to pass up a good cash grab.
So yeah, they probably can't. Even if you don't believe cryptic, you can believe their greed. Unlike anything else in this universe, it's a constant.
I wanted to post that, but you beat me to it.
I don't exactly know why Cryptic isn't allowed to make a T5-6 connie, but I'm sure they would have done it a long time ago if they could. They are not the kind of guy to pass up a good cash grab.
So yeah, they probably can't. Even if you don't believe cryptic, you can believe their greed. Unlike anything else in this universe, it's a constant.
Are you sure? I've heard Cryptic has become greedier. Ergo - it's not constant.
Star Trek Online Advancement: You start with lowbie gear, you end with Lobi gear.
STO predates JJ Trek. I think even the first Retrofits predate it.
Planning for JJ Trek affected STO a year before it launched. They were working on Romulus for the game prior to launch and had to pull it and change the story. Nimoy and Quinto were also involved in STO at launch and Nimoy's voiceover (which has been truncated) used to explicitly refer to the Hobus explosion and his red matter-fueled ship.
The Red Matter Capacitor was a pre-order bonus.
Additionally, while CBS now holds the rights for all the Prime Universe stuff, things were more complicated when the game launched. The Wrath of Khan uniforms, Sovereign-class, and ultimately Excelsior class fell outside the deal with CBS and were all specially negotiated with Paramount, since Paramount (not CBS) had rights to the ORIGINAL films (TMP through Nemesis) when Cryptic first got the license.
It was the negotiations with Paramount that likely prompted Cryptic to design J.J. Trek uniforms (which we saw on some NPCs as a leak).
But the Wrath of Khan uniforms were originally given away via a Paramount home video tie-in because that was the only way to get them made and CBS was only willing to sign off on the Excelsior with Paramount's approval, which is why the game didn't launch with it.
So Star Trek: Alien Domain (the new browser game) has launched in beta and all the promotional artwork and material (I can't say anything specific about the contents of the game) centers on controlling a massively refit Constitution class in the 25th century in a campaign against the Undine in Fluidic Space. It clearly has no hull, nacelles, and struts but is described as a Constitution class.
Why would CBS say no here and yes there?
CBS does not micro manage cryptic /pwe /STO
never has never will
Its easy to blame cbs without any proof to attempt to stop dissent...........no other star trek game was ever micro managed in this way ive played them all
This isn't either
Remember they guys saying CBS (said) are the same guys who said the old elite STFs would be changed in name only
And the Fanboi's just parrot the Liar's
Nuff said
Jellico....Engineer ground.....Da'val Romulan space Sci
Saphire.. Science ground......Ko'el Romulan space Tac
Leva........Tactical ground.....Koj Romulan space Eng
JJ-Verse will never be Canon or considered Lore...It will always be JJ-Verse
Sisko flies a bugship, and Kirk spent a whole movie and a half in a Bird of Prey.
The biggest problem is that feddies can't fly low tier klank ships, and vice versa.
Irrelevant. Sisko flew a captured Jem bug for a single covert operation, with the expectation that he would return to the command of the Defiant* upon its conclusion, and Kirk wasn't even acting as a commissioned Starfleet officer by that point. The Bounty was a convenient ride home so he and his crew could face a court-martial.
The lockbox ships are stupid, lore-breaking cash grabs and always have been.
* Or maybe it was that desk job as an operational planner; I forget which.
"Great War! / And I cannot take more! / Great tour! / I keep on marching on / I play the great score / There will be no encore / Great War! / The War to End All Wars"
— Sabaton, "Great War"
So Cryptic is passing up huge piles of cash from endgame Connie sales because.... they just feel like it?
I'm not sure this is entirely farfetched sometimes.
I don't think PWE micromanages the game as much as some claim aside from setting performance targets. I think a lot of what STO does sure seems to boil down to "because somebody felt like it."
That said, assuming that really does required that we were lied to, which is a lot different than the STF thing or any number of changes in the past. Most of which didn't require an intent to lie. Most of which just required that they felt free to change their minds after they'd told us something and didn't feel bound by what they'd assured us. The Connie thing would just about require an outright lie OR a very recent change on CBS' part.
And that change could be as simple as trying to save Connie-shaped ships for Paramount J.J. Trek games but after DAC and the shooter last year failed to yield big returns, Paramount stopped caring as much and signed off on CBS (who IS a sister company) being more free to exploit ships of a certain profile in higher profile ways.
Supposedly CBS wasn't crazy about the Connie appearing as a low tier ship either and that had to be smoothed over. So maybe CBS had a gentleman's agreement with Paramount to try to minimize the pre-J.J. Trek's Connie so stuff with the J.J. Trek Connie would sell better.
Abrams himself did seem to be upset that the TOS and TMP Connie were turning up in merch.
Abrams is more or less gone now and the remaining Bad Robot guys seem more hands-off, increasingly. So maybe Bob Orci got a call from Van Citters about Alien Domain and Orci waived whatever objections he'd had and said, "You know what? Do it."
I don't know. I'd be curious if folks noticed any other ship licensing trends over the last five years. Like with toys, ornaments, anything.
It's really simple. For millions of trek fans the Connie IS star trek. They don't want the other ships, they want the ship they fell in love with, and if they could get rid of tiers they'd fly the Connie from beginning to end.
And you'd be wrong.
Put an end game Connie in a lock box, or better yet, make it like the Suliban/Tuffli so it can be claimed at any level but the stats/slots improve as the character levels up, and players will be fighting tooth and nail to get the ship for multiple characters.
Then to make it in even more demand, only release the Connie lock box a couple times a year.
And a few months later, release the Fleet Version.
A few months later, raise the ship tier cap.
A few months later, announce the T7 version. Sell upgrade tokens to Tier 6U.
Star Trek Online Advancement: You start with lowbie gear, you end with Lobi gear.
The reasoning doesn't have to "make sense" or "be logical" to you. CBS is not run by Vulcans.
Plainly, Cryptic is a for-profit company. Plainly, PWE would like to squeeze their acquisition for every penny they can. And quite clearly, as can be told from the number of "endgame Connie" threads, if STO had a T6 (or even T5 with optional upgrade token!) Connie, there are those who would lay out ludicrous amounts of money for it.
Therefore, the only reason not to do so that makes any sense at all is that the licensor, CBS, has refused permission. Why did they do so? Who knows? Maybe somebody there actually doesn't like Trek and would like it to go away (you know, kind of like NBC while TOS was airing). Unless you have the ear of someone in charge at CBS, though, all these threads will go exactly nowhere, which is why they're on the FCT list.
It's really simple. For millions of trek fans the Connie IS star trek. They don't want the other ships, they want the ship they fell in love with, and if they could get rid of tiers they'd fly the Connie from beginning to end.
I personally do suspect that Cryptic are the ones who wouldn't want an end-game Constitution Class. Because of what sopwithsnipe said. Because I think they believe that making and end-game Connie would mean it's the final purchase of a ship in STO to many players and they're afraid no one will buy their new in-house designs after that.
It even makes somewhat sense when you look at the other iconic ships from Star Trek in this game:
Galaxy Class - by the time STO is set in, it should be near the top or a middle of the line ship. In STO it's the ultimate failboat. Hands down the most gimped ship ever.
Intrepid Class - made in STO in an era when science was still good even outside PvP, but unlike the Galaxy and Defiant who received a 5 class specific console on the fleet version, the Intrepid did not get a science one, because science was still usefull then.
And now they released a T6 Intrepid, but the same day they made the fugly Scryer the ultimate science ship of STO. :rolleyes:
Defiant Class - The only ship which had a fleet version that didn't increase it's shield mod. They finally "fixed" the shield mod "bug" after almost 3 years and after they released a "Defiant +1" in the Phantom. :rolleyes:
So yeah, call me crazy, but I suspect they fear the iconic ships. They fear that if they make them really usefull players will just stick to them and not buy other ships. And on those terms, the Constitution Class - the most iconic one would be the mother of all their fears.
That's why I insist on CBS verification. I'm not a Connie fanatic, I'm more of a Galaxy Class guy. But until I hear it loud and clear from CBS, I'll always take what Cryptic says with a grain of salt. It wouldn't be the first time they lied about something.
P.S. The Klingon faction in that other game stoleviathan99 speaks of has access to the K'Vort, a ship that Geko said he won't make because "it's just an overgrown B'rel" and he didn't like it. :rolleyes:
So yeah, call me crazy, but I suspect they fear the iconic ships. They fear that if they make them really usefull players will just stick to them and not buy other ships. And on those terms, the Constitution Class - the most iconic one would be the mother of all their fears.
I won't call you crazy, I think you've hit the nail on the head. If CBS is involved at all (and to be honest, I doubt they are)- they have the same fear. They want the old stuff out of the way to make room for the new as well.
In the end I was able to find a middle ground with my Excelsior after I gave up on Cryptic coming to their senses. I'll fly it until it can't fly any more, and then I'll quit the game.
I wish I had decided upon that a long time ago to be honest as I wasted money on ships that I got no significant use of and wish I hadn't brought. Pity I can't sell the worthless things.
I don't buy that at all. I can only speak for myself here, but having an endgame Connie would in no way stop me from purchasing other ships. No one I know of would stop buying ships if there were an endgame Connie.
This reason seems more like tinfoil hats need adjusting.
It wouldn't stop me either. Before the great alt massacre that was DR, all my chars used different ships. Having a Galaxy didn't make me use it on all chars. However what you or I would do or think doesn't matter, what Cryptic thinks it's what matters.
It just a theory. And when I see how ****ty and gimped the iconic ships that do exist at end game are, it makes me wonder. It's theories like these why we need an official CBS confirmation or these requests will never end.
I'm willing to bet that we'll eventually get an End-Game Connie (either TOS or TMP) in 2016. It'll be the Grand Prize for the 50th anniversary event that will surely happen in game at that time.
But not before then.
Formerly Known as Protector from June 2008 to June 20, 2012
Please enable us to buy a token with Zen to faction change a 25th Century FED to a TOS FED.
I'm willing to bet that we'll eventually get an End-Game Connie (either TOS or TMP) in 2016. It'll be the Grand Prize for the 50th anniversary event that will surely happen in game at that time.
But not before then.
How much are you willing to bet? I may be interested in taking it.
How much are you willing to bet? I may be interested in taking it.
LOL Well, 10 million EC sound doable? Hopefully, the game and both of us will still be here in 2 years. :cool:;)
Formerly Known as Protector from June 2008 to June 20, 2012
Please enable us to buy a token with Zen to faction change a 25th Century FED to a TOS FED.
Abrams himself did seem to be upset that the TOS and TMP Connie were turning up in merch.
Why does everyone keep going on about an unconfirmed rumor, even the freaking article that keeps getting brought up says nobody at Bad Robot or Paramount has confirmed it, meaning all they have is the word of some unnamed guy.
Galaxy Class - by the time STO is set in, it should be near the top or a middle of the line ship.
No Cryptic is going by All Good Things which had the Galaxy on its last legs in the 2490s with the Enterprise-D only getting saved from the scrapyard becuase Riker made it his flagship and they still had to convert it into a Galaxy-X.
Why does everyone keep going on about an unconfirmed rumor, even the freaking article that keeps getting brought up says nobody at Bad Robot or Paramount has confirmed it, meaning all they have is the word of some unnamed guy.
No Cryptic is going by All Good Things which had the Galaxy on its last legs in the 2490s with the Enterprise-D only getting saved from the scrapyard becuase Riker made it his flagship and they still had to convert it into a Galaxy-X.
Well, he did say when he started on Star Wars that he was pleased to get control over the merch in a way that he was unable to get from Trek. That was enough confirmation for me that the rumors had some validity. That and if I were rebooting TOS and I had a merch stake in the new ship, I'd want to minimize competition in the form of TOS/TMP Connie merch as well. It's what someone in his position should want, not some kind of unreasonable demand.
.
No Cryptic is going by All Good Things which had the Galaxy on its last legs in the 2490s with the Enterprise-D only getting saved from the scrapyard becuase Riker made it his flagship and they still had to convert it into a Galaxy-X.
Funny thing about "All good things" - it doesn't exist. It never happened. It's a figment of Q's imagination.
But do tell me by what episode is Cryptic going in making the Excelsior or Ambassador, amongst many others, better than the Galaxy Class.
Comments
This is pretty much where I'm standing on this topic. Until we see an official statement from CBS/CBS representative, I have to take what Cryptic says with a grain of salt. I'm not saying they are lying about this, but it wouldn't be the first time they flat out lied about something.
In the early days CBS really said no to having an end game Constitution class ship; as the game became more and more ridiculous with nobody flying Starfleet ships anymore they never revisited that topic with CBS again.
From the previous sales of Galaxy/Intrepid/Defiant I'm betting that the die hards who would actually buy a newly launched Constitution class ship that is underpowered (all hero ships are) wouldn't be that profittable.
Completed Starbase, Embassy, Mine, Spire and No Win Scenario
Nothing to do anymore.
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I don't exactly know why Cryptic isn't allowed to make a T5-6 connie, but I'm sure they would have done it a long time ago if they could. They are not the kind of guy to pass up a good cash grab.
So yeah, they probably can't. Even if you don't believe cryptic, you can believe their greed. Unlike anything else in this universe, it's a constant.
Defending The Galaxy By Breaking One Starfleet Regulation After The Next.
Are you sure? I've heard Cryptic has become greedier. Ergo - it's not constant.
Planning for JJ Trek affected STO a year before it launched. They were working on Romulus for the game prior to launch and had to pull it and change the story. Nimoy and Quinto were also involved in STO at launch and Nimoy's voiceover (which has been truncated) used to explicitly refer to the Hobus explosion and his red matter-fueled ship.
The Red Matter Capacitor was a pre-order bonus.
Additionally, while CBS now holds the rights for all the Prime Universe stuff, things were more complicated when the game launched. The Wrath of Khan uniforms, Sovereign-class, and ultimately Excelsior class fell outside the deal with CBS and were all specially negotiated with Paramount, since Paramount (not CBS) had rights to the ORIGINAL films (TMP through Nemesis) when Cryptic first got the license.
It was the negotiations with Paramount that likely prompted Cryptic to design J.J. Trek uniforms (which we saw on some NPCs as a leak).
But the Wrath of Khan uniforms were originally given away via a Paramount home video tie-in because that was the only way to get them made and CBS was only willing to sign off on the Excelsior with Paramount's approval, which is why the game didn't launch with it.
I'm more interested in analyzing the outward indicators of private licensing agreements than I am in being anybody's customer.
If this thread was about wanting the ship as a customer, I wouldn't have made it. For me, this thread was about analyzing the licensing logic.
What goes on in a bathroom is none of anybody's business either but if you want to be a plumber, you want to understand how pipes and toilets work.
You're right, my bad.
CBS does not micro manage cryptic /pwe /STO
never has never will
Its easy to blame cbs without any proof to attempt to stop dissent...........no other star trek game was ever micro managed in this way ive played them all
This isn't either
Remember they guys saying CBS (said) are the same guys who said the old elite STFs would be changed in name only
And the Fanboi's just parrot the Liar's
Nuff said
Saphire.. Science ground......Ko'el Romulan space Tac
Leva........Tactical ground.....Koj Romulan space Eng
JJ-Verse will never be Canon or considered Lore...It will always be JJ-Verse
The assumptions:
1)Cryptic/PWE makes rational decisions.
2)CBS cares and Cryptic/PWE never lies.
3)Corporate greed is non-essential and Cryptic/PWE don't fear repercussions.
Cryptic/PWE+logical decisions+sensible results = error ERROR does not compute /zero
Artificial intelligence's would be blowing up at this point.
Officially Nerfed In Early 2410
Irrelevant. Sisko flew a captured Jem bug for a single covert operation, with the expectation that he would return to the command of the Defiant* upon its conclusion, and Kirk wasn't even acting as a commissioned Starfleet officer by that point. The Bounty was a convenient ride home so he and his crew could face a court-martial.
The lockbox ships are stupid, lore-breaking cash grabs and always have been.
* Or maybe it was that desk job as an operational planner; I forget which.
— Sabaton, "Great War"
Check out https://unitedfederationofpla.net/s/
This!!!
There's not much more to be said.
EDIT: also I think we've gone past the F.C.T. line.
I'm not sure this is entirely farfetched sometimes.
I don't think PWE micromanages the game as much as some claim aside from setting performance targets. I think a lot of what STO does sure seems to boil down to "because somebody felt like it."
That said, assuming that really does required that we were lied to, which is a lot different than the STF thing or any number of changes in the past. Most of which didn't require an intent to lie. Most of which just required that they felt free to change their minds after they'd told us something and didn't feel bound by what they'd assured us. The Connie thing would just about require an outright lie OR a very recent change on CBS' part.
And that change could be as simple as trying to save Connie-shaped ships for Paramount J.J. Trek games but after DAC and the shooter last year failed to yield big returns, Paramount stopped caring as much and signed off on CBS (who IS a sister company) being more free to exploit ships of a certain profile in higher profile ways.
Supposedly CBS wasn't crazy about the Connie appearing as a low tier ship either and that had to be smoothed over. So maybe CBS had a gentleman's agreement with Paramount to try to minimize the pre-J.J. Trek's Connie so stuff with the J.J. Trek Connie would sell better.
Abrams himself did seem to be upset that the TOS and TMP Connie were turning up in merch.
Abrams is more or less gone now and the remaining Bad Robot guys seem more hands-off, increasingly. So maybe Bob Orci got a call from Van Citters about Alien Domain and Orci waived whatever objections he'd had and said, "You know what? Do it."
I don't know. I'd be curious if folks noticed any other ship licensing trends over the last five years. Like with toys, ornaments, anything.
And a few months later, release the Fleet Version.
A few months later, raise the ship tier cap.
A few months later, announce the T7 version. Sell upgrade tokens to Tier 6U.
Plainly, Cryptic is a for-profit company. Plainly, PWE would like to squeeze their acquisition for every penny they can. And quite clearly, as can be told from the number of "endgame Connie" threads, if STO had a T6 (or even T5 with optional upgrade token!) Connie, there are those who would lay out ludicrous amounts of money for it.
Therefore, the only reason not to do so that makes any sense at all is that the licensor, CBS, has refused permission. Why did they do so? Who knows? Maybe somebody there actually doesn't like Trek and would like it to go away (you know, kind of like NBC while TOS was airing). Unless you have the ear of someone in charge at CBS, though, all these threads will go exactly nowhere, which is why they're on the FCT list.
Call my crazy, but my doubts go in line of what sopwithsnipe is saying here:
I personally do suspect that Cryptic are the ones who wouldn't want an end-game Constitution Class. Because of what sopwithsnipe said. Because I think they believe that making and end-game Connie would mean it's the final purchase of a ship in STO to many players and they're afraid no one will buy their new in-house designs after that.
It even makes somewhat sense when you look at the other iconic ships from Star Trek in this game:
Galaxy Class - by the time STO is set in, it should be near the top or a middle of the line ship. In STO it's the ultimate failboat. Hands down the most gimped ship ever.
Intrepid Class - made in STO in an era when science was still good even outside PvP, but unlike the Galaxy and Defiant who received a 5 class specific console on the fleet version, the Intrepid did not get a science one, because science was still usefull then.
And now they released a T6 Intrepid, but the same day they made the fugly Scryer the ultimate science ship of STO. :rolleyes:
Defiant Class - The only ship which had a fleet version that didn't increase it's shield mod. They finally "fixed" the shield mod "bug" after almost 3 years and after they released a "Defiant +1" in the Phantom. :rolleyes:
So yeah, call me crazy, but I suspect they fear the iconic ships. They fear that if they make them really usefull players will just stick to them and not buy other ships. And on those terms, the Constitution Class - the most iconic one would be the mother of all their fears.
That's why I insist on CBS verification. I'm not a Connie fanatic, I'm more of a Galaxy Class guy. But until I hear it loud and clear from CBS, I'll always take what Cryptic says with a grain of salt. It wouldn't be the first time they lied about something.
P.S. The Klingon faction in that other game stoleviathan99 speaks of has access to the K'Vort, a ship that Geko said he won't make because "it's just an overgrown B'rel" and he didn't like it. :rolleyes:
I won't call you crazy, I think you've hit the nail on the head. If CBS is involved at all (and to be honest, I doubt they are)- they have the same fear. They want the old stuff out of the way to make room for the new as well.
In the end I was able to find a middle ground with my Excelsior after I gave up on Cryptic coming to their senses. I'll fly it until it can't fly any more, and then I'll quit the game.
I wish I had decided upon that a long time ago to be honest as I wasted money on ships that I got no significant use of and wish I hadn't brought. Pity I can't sell the worthless things.
It wouldn't stop me either. Before the great alt massacre that was DR, all my chars used different ships. Having a Galaxy didn't make me use it on all chars. However what you or I would do or think doesn't matter, what Cryptic thinks it's what matters.
It just a theory. And when I see how ****ty and gimped the iconic ships that do exist at end game are, it makes me wonder. It's theories like these why we need an official CBS confirmation or these requests will never end.
Oh come on now, when did Cryptic ever make sense?
But not before then.
Please enable us to buy a token with Zen to faction change a 25th Century FED to a TOS FED.
How much are you willing to bet? I may be interested in taking it.
LOL Well, 10 million EC sound doable? Hopefully, the game and both of us will still be here in 2 years. :cool:;)
Please enable us to buy a token with Zen to faction change a 25th Century FED to a TOS FED.
Why does everyone keep going on about an unconfirmed rumor, even the freaking article that keeps getting brought up says nobody at Bad Robot or Paramount has confirmed it, meaning all they have is the word of some unnamed guy.
No Cryptic is going by All Good Things which had the Galaxy on its last legs in the 2490s with the Enterprise-D only getting saved from the scrapyard becuase Riker made it his flagship and they still had to convert it into a Galaxy-X.
Well, he did say when he started on Star Wars that he was pleased to get control over the merch in a way that he was unable to get from Trek. That was enough confirmation for me that the rumors had some validity. That and if I were rebooting TOS and I had a merch stake in the new ship, I'd want to minimize competition in the form of TOS/TMP Connie merch as well. It's what someone in his position should want, not some kind of unreasonable demand.
Funny thing about "All good things" - it doesn't exist. It never happened. It's a figment of Q's imagination.
But do tell me by what episode is Cryptic going in making the Excelsior or Ambassador, amongst many others, better than the Galaxy Class.