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The Titanic?
jorantomalak
Member Posts: 7,133 Arc User
Been reading and contributing to the forum threads but the last podcast P1 200 i think it was made me wonder what the future of the game is.
Sometimes it feels like a sinking ship slowly foundering i was hoping for a time when we would get the cardassians as a faction....now im hoping this game makes it another year.
I know i know people will call this a doom thread but if your that ignorant then stick your head in a bucket and shout " DELTA RISING IS THE GREATEST EXPANSION EVER AND THE PLAYERS LOVE IT" over and over till you force yourself to beleive it.
This is a what are they thinking and wth do they expect to happen to the game thread
its clear DR has hurt this game but if the devs cared they could fix it.
but as of yet it looks as if they wont fix this game so what do they want to happen....wth do they expect the players to do when they drop a stinker like this in our laps.
Players quitting players upset and yet they say nothing is wrong idk why cryptic is acting like a pack of toddlers unwilling to hear a simple truth.
That truth is that DR has really hurt the game and alienated its playerbase for the most part
im hoping they get thie rcollective heads out of thier backsides and fix this once awesome game.
Till they do its going to continue in its foundering as they mishandle and mismanage this horrendous stinker of an expansion.
Sometimes it feels like a sinking ship slowly foundering i was hoping for a time when we would get the cardassians as a faction....now im hoping this game makes it another year.
I know i know people will call this a doom thread but if your that ignorant then stick your head in a bucket and shout " DELTA RISING IS THE GREATEST EXPANSION EVER AND THE PLAYERS LOVE IT" over and over till you force yourself to beleive it.
This is a what are they thinking and wth do they expect to happen to the game thread
its clear DR has hurt this game but if the devs cared they could fix it.
but as of yet it looks as if they wont fix this game so what do they want to happen....wth do they expect the players to do when they drop a stinker like this in our laps.
Players quitting players upset and yet they say nothing is wrong idk why cryptic is acting like a pack of toddlers unwilling to hear a simple truth.
That truth is that DR has really hurt the game and alienated its playerbase for the most part
im hoping they get thie rcollective heads out of thier backsides and fix this once awesome game.
Till they do its going to continue in its foundering as they mishandle and mismanage this horrendous stinker of an expansion.
Post edited by jorantomalak on
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!. For the elite ques, the player that makes it fail gets a 30 minute time out (during their time out they can watch a uTube video on how to do it right), while the other players receive no time out penalty so they can get back in quickly to get it done. Once the mission is completed then you can let them have the cool down as it was intended.
2. Up the dil reward for the foundry missions because they are the only true Star Trek adventures left in the game. Of course you would need to review the missions to make sure it just not a go in and out to get dil but a real adventure.
3. Fix the R&D system to where you can use so many greens to upgrade to a blue and so many blues to upgrade to a purple. This will allow players an alternate path to get the very rare R&D stuff to work their R&D crafting.
4. For the casual player let the doff system do its job by allowing them to mine for the hard to get R&D stuff.
5. Bring back some exploration to the game.
Please fix our game and quickly!
I agree 200% with number 4 and 5.
4) Put the Doff mission jobs back to normal where materials can be gotten.
5) Bring back some exploration.
From my understand Genesis was not removed from the game just disabled.
Bring back Genesis.
1) Bring back some of the planet systems but make it persistent. Once a place is created it becomes a persistent map.. Create a threshold of a number of planets of system can have.
Better yet, once the threshold is reached. It becomes a part of a exploration system for starters let it be created between the Alpha Quadrant and the Delta Quadrant.
2) Fix Genesis to have better placement of objects.
3) Allow each system to have one mineable planet. From dilithium to materials, etc.
Best part, if you do it, make it once the system becomes a fully explorable system.
Lets say, System Exploration-128A has a limit of 18 planets (1 mineable). When it becomes a fully explorable system. Fully make it in the sector map. So it will have 2 parts. Exploration-128A named Akia and the other part D'tar.
Make it a open space like initially ideal.
The goal.
Start implementing new mechanics into the game for a more dynamic and persistent universe which the games need BADLY.
In fact, I got the impression it was unlikely to survive launch.
I am not sure what might be a better historical analogy.
The Vasa?
— Sabaton, "Great War"
Check out https://unitedfederationofpla.net/s/
My character Tsin'xing
Help, they have my cat and are making me write this....
Why yes, yes it is about your sig...in fact, it should show a starship crashing into the Titanic and splitting it in half! Or maybe not...still nice sig.
Its an escape mechanism from the "harshness" of life to assume that its coming to an end because YOUR interests aren't being specifically catered to. Remember that there's a selective bias in forum contributors and their collective action, no matter how hot the rhetoric, will ever be representative.
Let population dynamics and economics speak for themselves. You don't need to proclaim anything (as its such a self-indulgent exercise that undermines whatever gripes there may be in the general population with bad examples of their expression in an open format. Basically feedback should be left to speak for itself. Retrospective posts like this try to speak for feedback, begging the question of what the hell was so weak about it in the first place that it needed another go at explanation. Making specific suggestions gets the point across. Assuming the voice of the community and playing the role of a harbinger doesn't.)
Notable missions: Apex [AEI], Gemini [SSF], Trident [AEI], Evolution's Smile [SSF], Transcendence
Looking for something new to play? I've started building Foundry missions again in visual novel form!
The big problem isn't so much the people here in the forums complaining, because a fix today means we're back in tomorrow. It's not the regulars who just play with low-grade equipment, they're the ones still in there wondering what all the fuss is about. The real issue is the casuals who have already left, and the episode chasers who go game-to-game trying out the latest expansions in one game after another.
The episode chasers are gone, and some will not come back unless they happen to hear that things have been fixed properly. Even then, it will only be with the next major story release. The casuals might come back but as this has taken two months so far, it will take more effort.
So in other words, this is the kind of problem that chases away the big spenders, keeps the non-spenders in-game using your infrastructure, and discourages the episodic players from returning without some serious reform.
There's also the issue of PWE wanting their Western assets to achieve more, and probably demanding that STO and other games fall into line with their "performing" assets by adopting a similar style of play (which happens to be Asian). The problem there is that Asian MMOs work in an entirely different way, because of an entirely different set of cultural norms and expectations, and an entirely different approach to the internet. The thing they don't seem to get is that the very reason why Western-style MMOs would fail in Asia is the exact same set of problems that is leading to Asian style MMOs being unpopular in the West.
So I would expect that this situation will lead to one or more of the following:
Any which way, I doubt STO will ever return to "business as usual". If that was even an option, it would have happened by now.
Foundry missions are *already* one of the more generous sources of Dilithium in the game. There's no need to increase that.
The R&D system is fine. Your goal should be Mk XIV Very Rare, not Epic. Even then there's NOTHING in this game that can't be done in low level gear.
Casual players have ample opportunities to get these materials; the absolute easiest being to use the existing DOFF science missions to earn basic materials to sell to other players to earn the EC needed for the VR materials. Or you know, playing the queues that reward them.
Why do you want generic, thoughtless procedural content when there are thousands of well written Foundry missions to play?
I think a lot of you forget how absurdly generous this game is sometimes. I mean we've got an event coming up where you just have to spend *literally* three minutes or less running a race course 25 times and you're given an end-game ship with healthy stats for no monetary input at all. It's been *years* since any of us had to put a penny into this game and we can all enjoy every single piece of content with no money-gating. Yeah there are elements of the game that are designed with a cash/time trade-off at their core, but every single one of those elements is optional, and let's not pretend Cryptic are running a charity.
People complain, but objectively STO has never been as good as it is now. If you think STO was somehow better in the past then you need to take the rose tinted glasses off because I *remember* what we launched with; and I *remember* how that first year went.
We don't have any of that info. There is no point in predicting this game's demise, especially since everyone has been doing that since the game launched.
Odan Brota (Science Officer): Captain of a 28k DPS Scryer Intel Science Vessel, U.S.S. Kepler
Patiently waiting for a Romulan Science Vessel
This is such a stupid assessment that it's almost comical. "Episode Chasers" are not "Big Spenders". Episode Chasers are nearly the definition of casual, low spend, high churn players.
The lights are kept on by a small group of big spenders who will buy every ship, and an even smaller group of "whales" who'll spend thousands of pounds to get their R&D rank to 20 on the first day, or to spend their way to Mk XIV Gold in hours and not months.
This. The "doom" thing has been going on since the Beta. This thread is a rehash of a thread from a month ago which was a rehash of a thread from two months ago which was a rehash of a thread from two years ago and so on and so on.
But the game keeps on getting bigger. I mean damn, if STO's biggest single revenue day was what, nearly four years after it's launch? There are very few MMOs that have that kind of revenue curve.
PWE recently released their profits earnings where they specifically blamed Western assets for underperforming. Playerbase is showing a distinct decline in both peak playerbase load and daily total hours with a sharp dropoff, which correlates to the number of rapid-fire promotions by Cryptic along with dead queues and boosting XP in Delta while limiting it elsewhere.
I'm satisfied that the picture being painted is one of this game being in trouble. I wish it wasn't, because then Cryptic wouldn't have bothered pushing DR so hard and I could have happily ignored it and just continued elsewhere.
You want to pretend everything's all rosy and great, fine. That's your prerogative to do so... though I notice you're in the forums rather than in game playing it. That tells me something too.
But yeah no stress, I totally believe the game is doing awesome - in terms of cashing in on dil from whales and everyone else who can't help themselves.
My complaint is just the game - after they now finally manage to delete and nerf everything, is no longer worth playing, for me personally.
That in my opinion aslong as it has the star trek brand it don't matter what happens, people are ready to buy fake ships, put up with whatever and will never quit no matter what.
You could say 11,000 patrol runs to a level and there'd be people doing it
I'm in the game, right now, waiting for patrols to load. I can do a few things at once. In fact, that's usually when I come to the forums.
Steam is a poor source for player logins, since most people I know don't even use steam for STO anymore. You're making claims that you can't back up, aside from citing an article where, although it states that western properties are performing poorly:
"However, we are still confident in the long-term prospects of our US subsidiary given its strong R&D and operational capabilities as well as promising pipeline."
Meaning they aren't going to kill the game. It's going to go through changes, like Delta Rising, which you lot seem to really despise, because I'm assuming you can't faceroll everything anymore. The rest of us, who are capable of adapting to a situation, have restructured our builds, and are doing fine. Well, except for the fact that pugs are a stone around your neck, and many people like myself have stopped pugging altogether. It's simply unreasonable to expect us to drag you along anymore.
Odan Brota (Science Officer): Captain of a 28k DPS Scryer Intel Science Vessel, U.S.S. Kepler
Patiently waiting for a Romulan Science Vessel
Steam data is not reliable (it's a sample of the total population that is declining at a rate we have no visibility of as more players swap from Steam to Arc installations) and you've misinterpreted the earnings statements:
"In view of US subsidiary's recent performance and near-term business outlook that are below our expectations, we recognized acquisition-related impairments in this quarter" - Robert Xiao
Dead queues have always existed; the fact is there are simply too many of them and Cryptic need to start rotating them in and out. And we've always had rapid fire promotions. I've data for total Zen on the exchange market (a fairly good indicator of health) going back literally over two years and there is no unusual activity there.
This is a pretty stupid argument to attempt to make. By your logic forums should be devoid of players in successful games? Players with multiple screens don't exist?
Cryptic may be abandoning the US market in favor of the Asian Grinder Underhive of China, Korea, Japan and the rest of the Pacific Rim where people love to grind for a few grains of "virtual" rice (dilithium) a day...?
Perhaps we are the stupid ones thinking they care about losing a few thousand westerners, while they are really gaining billions of Asians!
A few things:
STO is a segment of the playerbase, so unless you can demonstrate that there has been a wholesale shift of Steam STO players out of Steam and onto another login engine between Pre and Post-DR, your objection is completely irrelevant. You do know that outside of Government census data, no statistics ever deal with more than a sample don't you? That includes medicine use, unemployment programs, education, etc. So "Today X, Two months ago X minus 20%" doesn't change because X itself is 100%, 20%, or 5%.
That quote is what's known as "PR spin". To recap: I pointed out that the Western assets weren't achieving as much as their eastern assets. You demanded evidence that my statement were true. I provided that evidence. The fact they are working to make those western assets 'perform better' is precisely why I think the game will never return to pre-DR.
As for adapting, I was... until they nerfed everything non-DR, and failed to fix a range of bugs including the skillstray and Borg Red Alerts. As a player who was spending a lot of money in the past to keep the game going, because I enjoyed it and acknowledged that not every player would or could pay for it.
In its current state, it's simply unreasonable to expect me to engage in areas I have no interest in, and ignore the areas I do, merely to drag non-paying players along any more.
2/10, made me reply. Those are some good numbers, except you've failed to provide me with the ones I've asked for. Your claim, that the game is failing, has yet to be upheld by anything but the SINGLE article that you linked, which didn't have hard info at all. By all means, keep screaming that the game is going to die.
Odan Brota (Science Officer): Captain of a 28k DPS Scryer Intel Science Vessel, U.S.S. Kepler
Patiently waiting for a Romulan Science Vessel
Did I say the game is failing? I suggest you spend more time reading and less time looking for things to disagree with.
A couple of things you should consider here.
1. PWE's western business also includes (at a glance) APB, Torchlight, Champions, Blacklight, and D+D. The total figure is NOT an appropriate substitute for STO's performance figures. If you need this point explained in more detail, you shouldn't be trying to handle statistics.
2. As was pointed out above Steam is not necessary to run in order to play STO. Its therefore a compromised data source (because you can suppose a disconnect between people playing STO and people who still haven't worked their way around to the direct log-on yet). Furthermore, take a look at the 6 month view as opposed to the yearly. Does that look like a real population trend (steady on then rapid, regular, geometric shifts)? No of course not, so I'd be very hestistent indeed to base anything on that figure (for a start the noise seems greater than the population trend you're supposing). Point 2 of "how to fail at stats", you don't check your data.
Notable missions: Apex [AEI], Gemini [SSF], Trident [AEI], Evolution's Smile [SSF], Transcendence
Looking for something new to play? I've started building Foundry missions again in visual novel form!
1. Nor did I say it was. What I suggested, and used the word "perhaps" precisely because I don't know the inner workings of Cryptic, that they are being pushed to perform better to fit into the profitability of the Eastern assets, and thus, the Eastern model. If you need this point explained in more detail, you shouldn't be trying to handle English.
2. Point two of "how to fail at stats"... ignore a source of statistics by arguing that a sample is "compromised". If you look at those stats from the "all", then drill down, and go up, look at the lower and upper bars and note they're not the same, look at the Whole Steam stats on the front page, look at the stats on other games and get a feel for them, then you "might" start to understand them. Obviously you haven't.
Ah yes, that's how to fix this games' problems; develop a blame culture which bullies newer/less-well equipped players into not playing.
He's not the one trying to use volume from a source of data which is an unknown, time-variable fraction of the total. Real statisticians (not armchair internet out-my-TRIBBLE statisticians) spend most of their time actively trying to remove biases in their samples and to normalise their data to make it comparable over time or against other sources of data.
Like I said, unless there's a reason to believe that there has been some sort of shift out of Steam and into some other launch between two months ago and now, there's no reason to believe that downward trend is anything but a downward trend. Considering the complaints about queues and lack of players etc, there's no reason to look for what everyone's logging into now.
Perhaps you should stop trying to be such an armchair statistician. You're not very good at it.
1. Suggested? Yes you can suggest it but you can just as easily suggest it without trying hold up bad data as support. Yes, its concievable that STO is a contributing factor but as with so many things in this house of cards you've built up for yourself it relies exclusively on selective interpertation and a very dim view of what the limitations are of your data.
Take the point that what you cited doesn't really support what you're trying to say like a reasonable adult (ie. one that doesn't resort to parroting) and keep your opinion to the subjective grounds on which it is truly based.
2. The data is OBVIOUSLY compromised. Here's it in more detail: short term data is not reported the same as long term. They OBVIOUSLY apply a smoothing factor which makes any comparison of population in the near term with the long term UNRELIABLE (because of the variation introduced by the smoothing factor.) Just take alook at the data that we CAN say something for on steam (ignoring the other issue too that it only represents an unspecified sample rather than the total population). Basically, from September to now. There's a jump in October (duh) and a decline afterwards but we're only down to WHERE WE WERE BEFORE DR.
This is why you look at your data in more detail (rather than jumping to a convenient conclusion at the first oppotunity.) It helps to keep you from making specious arguments.
Notable missions: Apex [AEI], Gemini [SSF], Trident [AEI], Evolution's Smile [SSF], Transcendence
Looking for something new to play? I've started building Foundry missions again in visual novel form!
In terms of Deleta Risings content, the story has been excellent and engaging.
In terms of the meta changes to the game and the ridiculous amount of bugs, DR has been an unmitigated disaster from a players perspective. That's where the devs impression skews from the players; DR is profitable, it slowed progression, and it launched with virtually no server downtime.
Given the number of unique changes to game, it's not surprising they've (Cryptic) had to make changes. Over the past few weeks the developers have slowly been tweaking and patching to restore some semblance of order back into the game.
Its in those changes, and the time it's taken to straighten out the bugs that many players feel that Cryptic dropped the ball. Theres been a drop in the number of active players and many of us expressed our displeasure here and in public.
Tomorrow the R&D updates will be launched. It's a huge step forward.
I am hopeful.
We know there *is* a trend toward players moving from Steam to Arc, and we know that new players are pushed to Arc and not Steam by marketing. We don't know the scale of that shift or indeed what percentage Steam represents at any point in time.
I'm not an armchair statistician. I'm a ****ing professional. You're the lunatic who's trying to interpret data to say something he knows it can't by definition.