These are the voyages of The U.S.S. Shadow Serpent, its ongoing mission, to enlist more misfits to its crazy crew, and to boldly destroy what has never been destroyed before
It's obvious that the rarity game is meant to be played, otherwise why would they have created it in the first place ? People are complaining about the cost, not that they "have to do it".
So argue about the cost, show how it's not too high, give advice about doing it smart. Stop being an TRIBBLE* by suggesting that no one has to do it....
*Not specifically you, but more in general.
epic = priceless
i would expect it to cost the earth and it does if you dont want to pay the price for an epic then dont lol. That being said for some things they are lowering costs a bit. However the dilithium sink for an epic I believe is actually the right thing to do as this keeps them "rare" to some extent although with time in this case anyone can obtain if it they have the will to farm large quantities of dilithium to get it.
what I find illogical is all the people wanting epic for no sort of work at all either in grinding dilithium or whatevers.
If you want epic there are a couple of choices pay tons of ec for it (makes sense the most rare and relevant gear in the game has very high pricing to match) or grind dilithium and do it yourself after grinding those R & D slots.
i would expect it to cost the earth and it does if you dont want to pay the price for an epic then dont lol. That being said for some things they are lowering costs a bit. However the dilithium sink for an epic I believe is actually the right thing to do as this keeps them "rare" to some extent although with time in this case anyone can obtain if it they have the will to farm large quantities of dilithium to get it.
what I find illogical is all the people wanting epic for no sort of work at all either in grinding dilithium or whatevers.
If you want epic there are a couple of choices pay tons of ec for it (makes sense the most rare and relevant gear in the game has very high pricing to match) or grind dilithium and do it yourself after grinding those R & D slots.
Saying that the cost is too high is not the same as saying it shouldn't cost anything. It's fair to note that epic isn't supposed to be thrown after you, but just saying that no one has to do it to counter any critisism is not very constructive.
Saying that the cost is too high is not the same as saying it shouldn't cost anything. It's fair to note that epic isn't supposed to be thrown after you, but just saying that no one has to do it to counter any critisism is not very constructive.
epic cost is not too high in fact I expected it to be higher... is that more clear? I have countered it with a clear argument you just failed to read it so i will repost it
that is a constructive reason and "counter" to your request to have the prices lowerd for epic items which I do not believe they should because the price denotes the rarity.
Originally Posted by ummax View Post
epic = priceless
i would expect it to cost the earth and it does if you dont want to pay the price for an epic then dont lol. That being said for some things they are lowering costs a bit. However the dilithium sink for an epic I believe is actually the right thing to do as this keeps them "rare" to some extent although with time in this case anyone can obtain if it they have the will to farm large quantities of dilithium to get it.
what I find illogical is all the people wanting epic for no sort of work at all either in grinding dilithium or whatevers.
If you want epic there are a couple of choices pay tons of ec for it (makes sense the most rare and relevant gear in the game has very high pricing to match) or grind dilithium and do it yourself after grinding those R & D slots.
again
something epic is usually considered as "priceless"
in most cases meaning that you can't attach any price to something because its just so "epic" that all the money in the world would not be enough.
so how is that "not constructive" its simply not something you want to hear but its most definately constructive it gives reasons and logic for the decisions behind them making the cost of epic gear so high..
It's obvious that the rarity game is meant to be played, otherwise why would they have created it in the first place ? People are complaining about the cost, not that they "have to do it".
So argue about the cost, show how it's not too high, give advice about doing it smart. Stop being an TRIBBLE* by suggesting that no one has to do it....
*Not specifically you, but more in general.
This I can do.
Don't look at your entire loadout as the goal just one item at a time. Don't look at it as a stretch goal, saying "this is where I eventually want to be", look at upgrading each item each day. Baby steps. Look at, for instance, your Mk XIII purple DHC being upgraded to Mk XIV purple instead of Mk XIV gold. Look forward to that little boost in power to use the next day.
Hell, this advice even carries over to IRL(I know, crappy game, but still). If you're faced with a huge, daunting task, tackle it in smaller pieces. Then it won't seem so overwhelming. Yes, you may not ever make it to the top. But you'll still make progress. And that progress can even help you get more progress.
A full set of gold gear may be appealing, but don't let that cloud you to more achievable goals. =D
epic cost is not too high in fact I expected it to be higher... is that more clear? I have countered it with a clear argument you just failed to read it so i will repost it
that is a constructive reason and "counter" to your request to have the prices lowerd for epic items which I do not believe they should because the price denotes the rarity.
again
something epic is usually considered as "priceless"
in most cases meaning that you can't attach any price to something because its just so "epic" that all the money in the world would not be enough.
so how is that "not constructive" its simply not something you want to hear but its most definately constructive it gives reasons and logic for the decisions behind them making the cost of epic gear so high..
I couldn't care less what the cost for epic is, you misunderstood me. I am not on anyones side here.
Although I do think that you go slightly over the top with your assessment of what epic should be. After all you get some epic items as consoles or mission rewards. Not to mention that the boost some items receive are rather small. Epic is just a word.
Don't look at your entire loadout as the goal just one item at a time. Don't look at it as a stretch goal, saying "this is where I eventually want to be", look at upgrading each item each day. Baby steps. Look at, for instance, your Mk XIII purple DHC being upgraded to Mk XIV purple instead of Mk XIV gold. Look forward to that little boost in power to use the next day.
Hell, this advice even carries over to IRL(I know, crappy game, but still). If you're faced with a huge, daunting task, tackle it in smaller pieces. Then it won't seem so overwhelming. Yes, you may not ever make it to the top. But you'll still make progress. And that progress can even help you get more progress.
A full set of gold gear may be appealing, but don't let that cloud you to more achievable goals. =D
I couldn't care less what the cost for epic is, you misunderstood me. I am not on anyones side here.
Although I do think that you go slightly over the top with your assessment of what epic should be. After all you get some epic items as consoles or mission rewards. Not to mention that the boost some items receive are rather small. Epic is just a word.
you want them to lower the price because of other rewards but in each case there is something else to be done other then grind dilithium and in some cases real world money isinvolved
for instance the new um whatever it is (i had zen saved up actually from grinding dilithium so i purchased it for my fed science guy) voyager set with the bridge is how much real world money?
now those contain epic consoles you can pay real world cash to obtain a short cut and buy them now or you can grind 50 bucks worth of dilithium to obtain it. soo looking at this now...
the dilithium is about 160 per zen .. that is about 800,000 dilithium assuming that is what dilithium sells for now.
is it really that different of a price? nope its a bit more because its all ingame but still you can just you know buy the dilithium with zen and take the same shortcut or.. you can pay ec and pay some guy ingame but the prices are actually not too high that is the point.
(or is the new voyager package 5500 zen i forget right now but anyhow you get the idea)
My desire to upgrade has gone to the finger. The more I upgrade the higher it goes. So I pretty much have stopped upgrading and crafting unless somebody wants help in my fleet. There is no value in it at this point in time. The only item I found worth upgrading is tactical consoles, but forget epic. I don't even care about ultra rare anymore. I lost interest in the grind and would rather try to enjoy the game.
you want them to lower the price because of other rewards but in each case there is something else to be done other then grind dilithium and in some cases real world money isinvolved
for instance the new um whatever it is (i had zen saved up actually from grinding dilithium so i purchased it for my fed science guy) voyager set with the bridge is how much real world money?
now those contain epic consoles you can pay real world cash to obtain a short cut and buy them now or you can grind 50 bucks worth of dilithium to obtain it. soo looking at this now...
the dilithium is about 160 per zen .. that is about 800,000 dilithium assuming that is what dilithium sells for now.
is it really that different of a price? nope its a bit more because its all ingame but still you can just you know buy the dilithium with zen and take the same shortcut or.. you can pay ec and pay some guy ingame but the prices are actually not too high that is the point.
(or is the new voyager package 5500 zen i forget right now but anyhow you get the idea)
I don't want them to lower the price specifically. But I feel that the upgrade system isn't where it should be. The increase in effectiveness from upgrading fluctuates wildly across different kinds of items yet the cost is usually high. I think it's not unreasonably to expect the cost to be reflected in the power increase, yes ?
I don't want them to lower the price specifically. But I feel that the upgrade system isn't where it should be. The increase in effectiveness from upgrading fluctuates wildly across different kinds of items yet the cost is usually high. I think it's not unreasonably to expect the cost to be reflected in the power increase, yes ?
and they have stated that they are lowering the prices for most of it but epic will not change and are keeping an eye on it.
you need to remember they are balancing it, but since the op was going for epic and didnt want to stop himself basically the argument is "epic is too expensive" in fact this is what you said on top. However the way your doing things is sitting on a fence and you just trolled another user giving them a "cookie" so have at it. Your just being obtuse for the sake of "debate".
I am not into debating I stated how I felt and why along with the "they are in fact lowering the cost of the rest" multiple times but your focusing on my definition of epic which is the most rare of the rare. Somehow people spending the money to get to epic is too high yet you agree with the price.
they are tuning it as they have stated however once again in my opinion i actually feel that the price to get to an epic is actually not quite high enough. Because as someone who grinds fleets it actually feels to be quite a low number in the scheme of things.
400k for epics is damned cheap and anything I have tried to upgrade so far without focusing on the need for epic has cost me about 5k or sometimes 10k dilithium and looking at the intitial cost of the item (it was all rep gear) which in most cases was a bunch of marks, ec, and 32k dilithium it actually fits..
but i am not interested at this time in actually sinking dilithium into the chance for an epic maybe later but I am dumping any spare dilithium into a fleet so i will do that for now.
(still constructive even if you personally feel its not at least I am not trolling people offering them cookies..)
i would expect it to cost the earth and it does if you dont want to pay the price for an epic then dont lol. That being said for some things they are lowering costs a bit. However the dilithium sink for an epic I believe is actually the right thing to do as this keeps them "rare" to some extent although with time in this case anyone can obtain if it they have the will to farm large quantities of dilithium to get it.
what I find illogical is all the people wanting epic for no sort of work at all either in grinding dilithium or whatevers.
If you want epic there are a couple of choices pay tons of ec for it (makes sense the most rare and relevant gear in the game has very high pricing to match) or grind dilithium and do it yourself after grinding those R & D slots.
Sorry, but you're oversimplifying the matter (along with many others, btw). If this were real life, and people wanted to buy, say, a Maserati, then all the usual "But you don't HAVE to buy one!" rhetoric would hold 100% true.
This is, however, an MMO. And in a game like this, the very purpose of the game is being able to play it, in full. Which is to say, all goals should be attainable (unlike real life). If you design the game in such a way that only the super-rich, or mentally insane, can reach the end-goal, then the design is flawed, by definition. That is really where an MMO is divergent from real life, in that it is designed for full participation. That means: no Elite queues only 0.85% of your player base can access, and no Upgrade Cost (even to Ulra Rare) that are simply undoable for most. And no ueber-rate material drops, needed by all, but which can only be gotten in the Elites played by that selfsame 0.85% of your player base, either.
Sure, prior to DR, people could have stuck to using Mk XI blue stuff too. They didn't. And the reasons for wanting at least Ultra Rare Mk XIV gear now are exactly the same: people simply want to reach the game's end-goals.
If your speaking of epic yes yes it is because its "epic" and your not supposed to do it for all your gear only the very special gear. The upgrade in mark level is fine its actually not that expensive at all but they are lowering the cost.
you dont *need* epic gear to play this game they have stated its just for those who have this need to min/max and have bragging rights. Even the increase in stats is not worth the upgrade to epic its minimal. Its there so people can say "I have an epic wang".
You don't NEED to login either but people do. The point here isn't that he needed epic gear, the point is plane as day that he should have gotten what he paid for which was the epic gear. He did the grind or paid for it, it should be his.
This new trend that STO has started is the exact same reason why I stopped playing it's sister game NWO. They too have a system of failed enchants that are all RNG that make it almost impossible unless you are a whale to get to max level gear with max enchants.
This practice isn't new however, people should know that this system has been used in lesser games in the eastern markets for years. The RNG systems over there make vanilla WoW and any loot system we have here in the west pale in comparison. Everything is RNG to such an extreme degree that you can spend large amounts of money and suddenly lose it all, beyond any box system we see being used today, that failure to enchant system is the most extreme form of RNG in game design.
When people accept RNG as a system it just gets worse and worse for the gaming community. In 2010 none of the games out had these extremes in them, they were all using the basic 2004 or modern model of loot acquisition and improvement. Since 2011 with the release of SWTOR and it's changes to F2P, the release of games such as GW2 and it's changes in Nov 2012, the release of NWO, Archeage and Destiny, we're seeing a trend where these eastern systems have crept into the mmo market and are ruining the experience for many players in the west.
I've not logged back in for a week now, and I'm not missing it. All I had to look forward to in this title was grinding out these specialization levels, grinding out the crafting to make one or two pieces that would need immediate upgrades, grinding out dilithium just to upgrade said gear, and then grinding out more specialization points. I'm tired of grinding. Let me know when this industry returns to the Western standards we started to see in 2010.
Sorry, but you're oversimplifying the matter (along with many others, btw). If this were real life, and people wanted to buy, say, a Maserati, then all the usual "But you don't HAVE to buy one!" rhetoric would hold 100% true.
This is, however, an MMO. And in a game like this, the very purpose of the game is being able to play it, in full. Which is to say, all goals should be attainable (unlike real life). If you design the game in such a way that only the super-rich, or mentally insane, can reach the end-goal, then the design is flawed, by definition. That is really where an MMO is divergent from real life, in that it is designed for full participation. That means: no Elite queues only 0.85% of your player base can access, and no Upgrade Cost (even to Ulra Rare) that are simply undoable for most. And no ueber-rate material drops, needed by all, but which can only be gotten in the Elites played by that selfsame 0.85% of your player base, either.
Sure, prior to DR, people could have stuck to using Mk XI blue stuff too. They didn't. And the reasons for wanting at least Ultra Rare Mk XIV gear now are exactly the same: people simply want to reach the game's end-goals.
Well, here's the devs' logic behind this. If you DO get everything... all Mk XIV gold, all spec points... then what? What would you do with it? To the devs, you wouldn't have anything to do after getting everything. And to an extent, that's kinda true. The devs don't want us left with nothing to do, then we'd have no reason to play the game.
At least that's how I understand it. But being a player with 45 characters with 14 ship slots each, I wouldn't mind if it were a hell of a lot cheaper...
Sorry, but you're oversimplifying the matter (along with many others, btw). If this were real life, and people wanted to buy, say, a Maserati, then all the usual "But you don't HAVE to buy one!" rhetoric would hold 100% true.
This is, however, an MMO. And in a game like this, the very purpose of the game is being able to play it, in full. Which is to say, all goals should be attainable (unlike real life). If you design the game in such a way that only the super-rich, or mentally insane, can reach the end-goal, then the design is flawed, by definition. That is really where an MMO is divergent from real life, in that it is designed for full participation. That means: no Elite queues only 0.85% of your player base can access, and no Upgrade Cost (even to Ulra Rare) that are simply undoable for most. And no ueber-rate material drops, needed by all, but which can only be gotten in the Elites played by that selfsame 0.85% of your player base, either.
Sure, prior to DR, people could have stuck to using Mk XI blue stuff too. They didn't. And the reasons for wanting at least Ultra Rare Mk XIV gear now are exactly the same: people simply want to reach the game's end-goals.
no one is stopping you from playing it in full. The content is playable with mark xII (all of it every danged q even the elites) epics are "for bragging rights" again using cryptics own words. You can if you so chooose play the rng game and get one in fact anyone can (unlike some games that lock it behind lenghty raids etc ) by sinking dilithium into the system.
Want and "need" are two seperate words. I want every danged ship in the game but I watch my budget and buy things as I can afford to. I have chosen to 'earn' my stuff using dilithium and not my wallet and sunk my money into a lifetime sub instead. I want it all and I want an epic set on all my ships and I want all the t6 ships and and and. I dont need them though and still play the game all the bits even that wierd battle of korfez elite i have tried it on my best geared guy a few times. I am not locked out of anything nothing is impossible in this game given time that is the point.
I have 4 guys i have outfitted I took a long long haitus and only just returned prior to delta rising. I have all my guys in purple gear now (some better then others) I have one guy that can hit first place in just about anything he tries and floats in purples. I Have 2 more on the rise and the 4th is getting there he is a fed and I hate the fed side so that is why I am so slow with him.
I had at the beginning of delta rising a guy in mostly green and white stuff he was new and just levelled to 50 just a week before delta hit. He is now outfitted about 3/4 now he is all mark xii purple stuff from rep sort of a hodge podge but it works... I could stop once i had all their mark xii sets and play the entire game and not upgrade an entire thing.
but like others .. i want an epic or three eventually but i will do it as I go along and also obtain my bragging rights. How am I not playing the entire game? lol
I dont consider myself one of those "elites" in fact if someone called me one i would probably ask them not to. LoL Yet I have it all and then some and I started playing with nothing because everything I had was so old because of how long I was gone from this game that it was nothing lol 45 was the level cap when i left. My guys were in pvp gear I obtained that was obsolete. I had.. nothing..
If i can do it an over the hill retired person with crappy reflexes anyone can but then I am not competitive I just do what I like and if others dont like it oh well its my dime not theirs
You don't NEED to login either but people do. The point here isn't that he needed epic gear, the point is plane as day that he should have gotten what he paid for which was the epic gear. He did the grind or paid for it, it should be his.
.
this sounds like a bug then if he paid it and didnt get it because otherwise he would have it so the price is not to high? and he was the victim of a bug then? lol
because the only way you know its epic is after you take it out and see the epic label.
Well, here's the devs' logic behind this. If you DO get everything... all Mk XIV gold, all spec points... then what? What would you do with it? To the devs, you wouldn't have anything to do after getting everything. And to an extent, that's kinda true. The devs don't want us left with nothing to do, then we'd have no reason to play the game.
At least that's how I understand it. But being a player with 45 characters with 14 ship slots each, I wouldn't mind if it were a hell of a lot cheaper...
Yes. Geko actually pretty much spelled it out like that in the latest podcast. But I'll tell him what I said earlier: I've been here ever since they went F2P, with most of the time just having the same old content (which is quite logical, btw: ppl just burn thru content way faster than it can be written). So, if I stayed thru all the draughts, why can't they trust me now to stay too? Why are they now suddenly so afraid I will walk when this or that goal has been completed? They could simply do what they did prior to DR: create a new Rep, or a new Fleet holding, etc. The insane costs really aren't necessary.
Kudos on the 45 alts, btw. I can no longer afford to keep up with my single alt, even.
Kudos on the 45 alts, btw. I can no longer afford to keep up with my single alt, even.
If you're wondering, I've went insane a long time ago. :P
No, you're right. People do stay. But back in season 8, a lot of people finished Dyson rep with 'nothing to do'. But they stayed. You think Cryptic made Delta Rising this way because of that?
the way i was explained the only guaranteed outcome when upgrading gear was an increase in mark not rarity and that it would never lose rarity in the upgrade so a vr dhc cannons would not fail and become a blue dhc. but yeah uping rarity is compltely a gambleso best way to upgrade gear is to start with highest rarity items ultra or very rare and increase their mark level
i have seen epic tac consoles on exchange that are like mark 9 or 11 should i buy them they kinda cheap and then up grade to the mark i want that way i don't have to worry about the rarity thing?
I don't know how anyone could have missed the epic upgrade lotto warnings that have been plastered all over the forum for weeks, I was aware of the risks involved before DR even launched from these posts.
that's why I only upgrade mk12 rare or better and only up to mk14, I never gamble on quality.
if I happen to get a quality boost while upgrading from mk12 to mk14 fine but I never go chasing mk14 epic the risk of loosing everything is just too great.
upgrading anything less then mk12 is just too expensive.
all the items I have upgraded I have got exactly what I was expecting to get and sometimes a little better.
When I think about everything we've been through together,
maybe it's not the destination that matters, maybe it's the journey,
and if that journey takes a little longer,
so we can do something we all believe in,
I can't think of any place I'd rather be or any people I'd rather be with.
To all that have responded (Trolls & PW/Cryptic bots included..) thank you! I left last night when my post was on pg. 6 and am still in the process of reading what I missed. Regardless how you feel on this thread I'm grateful that other seasoned players have a shared similar sentiment as I on the upgrade system. Best wishes to you (& to STO) in the future..
I don't know how anyone could have missed the epic upgrade lotto warnings that have been plastered all over the forum for weeks...
good point.. I don't go to forums usually I just play.. (I've been here longer yet have a fraction of your threads..), I was mistaken/misled whatever. As I've said throughout this post if you choose to accept the 'system' the way it currently stands it's on you - not me..
To all that have responded (Trolls & PW/Cryptic bots included..) thank you! I left last night when my post was on pg. 6 and am still in the process of reading what I missed. Regardless how you feel on this thread I'm grateful that other seasoned players have a shared similar sentiment as I on the upgrade system. Best wishes to you (& to STO) in the future..
If you find a better MMORPG than STO, please, tell us about it.
If you find a better MMORPG than STO, please, tell us about it.
I would but I hate forums regardless of the game. I would only come if I felt the need (hence lack of forum activity in the time in game.. - & it seems it's been longer than you). I've invested heavily in this game but I did as well in LOTRO (Lord of the Rings Online) & I was a monthly subscriber for years. To bad for them they screwed the game & it's dying. I hope a similar fate doesn't await STO. We shall see have friends pulling me several different ways, we shall see..:rolleyes:
I would but I hate forums regardless of the game. I would only come if I felt the need (hence lack of forum activity in the time in game.. - & it seems it's been longer than you). I've invested heavily in this game but I did as well in LOTRO (Lord of the Rings Online) & I was a monthly subscriber for years. To bad for them they screwed the game & it's dying. I hope a similar fate doesn't await STO. We shall see have friends pulling me several different ways, we shall see..:rolleyes:
Well good luck I hate to see my fellow players quitting under these terms, and I wish you well. Just try checking back with us just in case things get better.
Comments
epic = priceless
i would expect it to cost the earth and it does if you dont want to pay the price for an epic then dont lol. That being said for some things they are lowering costs a bit. However the dilithium sink for an epic I believe is actually the right thing to do as this keeps them "rare" to some extent although with time in this case anyone can obtain if it they have the will to farm large quantities of dilithium to get it.
what I find illogical is all the people wanting epic for no sort of work at all either in grinding dilithium or whatevers.
If you want epic there are a couple of choices pay tons of ec for it (makes sense the most rare and relevant gear in the game has very high pricing to match) or grind dilithium and do it yourself after grinding those R & D slots.
Saying that the cost is too high is not the same as saying it shouldn't cost anything. It's fair to note that epic isn't supposed to be thrown after you, but just saying that no one has to do it to counter any critisism is not very constructive.
epic cost is not too high in fact I expected it to be higher... is that more clear? I have countered it with a clear argument you just failed to read it so i will repost it
that is a constructive reason and "counter" to your request to have the prices lowerd for epic items which I do not believe they should because the price denotes the rarity.
again
something epic is usually considered as "priceless"
in most cases meaning that you can't attach any price to something because its just so "epic" that all the money in the world would not be enough.
so how is that "not constructive" its simply not something you want to hear but its most definately constructive it gives reasons and logic for the decisions behind them making the cost of epic gear so high..
Don't look at your entire loadout as the goal just one item at a time. Don't look at it as a stretch goal, saying "this is where I eventually want to be", look at upgrading each item each day. Baby steps. Look at, for instance, your Mk XIII purple DHC being upgraded to Mk XIV purple instead of Mk XIV gold. Look forward to that little boost in power to use the next day.
Hell, this advice even carries over to IRL(I know, crappy game, but still). If you're faced with a huge, daunting task, tackle it in smaller pieces. Then it won't seem so overwhelming. Yes, you may not ever make it to the top. But you'll still make progress. And that progress can even help you get more progress.
A full set of gold gear may be appealing, but don't let that cloud you to more achievable goals. =D
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I couldn't care less what the cost for epic is, you misunderstood me. I am not on anyones side here.
Although I do think that you go slightly over the top with your assessment of what epic should be. After all you get some epic items as consoles or mission rewards. Not to mention that the boost some items receive are rather small. Epic is just a word.
See, it works ! Here is your cookie !
you want them to lower the price because of other rewards but in each case there is something else to be done other then grind dilithium and in some cases real world money isinvolved
for instance the new um whatever it is (i had zen saved up actually from grinding dilithium so i purchased it for my fed science guy) voyager set with the bridge is how much real world money?
now those contain epic consoles you can pay real world cash to obtain a short cut and buy them now or you can grind 50 bucks worth of dilithium to obtain it. soo looking at this now...
the dilithium is about 160 per zen .. that is about 800,000 dilithium assuming that is what dilithium sells for now.
is it really that different of a price? nope its a bit more because its all ingame but still you can just you know buy the dilithium with zen and take the same shortcut or.. you can pay ec and pay some guy ingame but the prices are actually not too high that is the point.
(or is the new voyager package 5500 zen i forget right now but anyhow you get the idea)
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I don't want them to lower the price specifically. But I feel that the upgrade system isn't where it should be. The increase in effectiveness from upgrading fluctuates wildly across different kinds of items yet the cost is usually high. I think it's not unreasonably to expect the cost to be reflected in the power increase, yes ?
*sits in teh corner and noms it*
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and they have stated that they are lowering the prices for most of it but epic will not change and are keeping an eye on it.
you need to remember they are balancing it, but since the op was going for epic and didnt want to stop himself basically the argument is "epic is too expensive" in fact this is what you said on top. However the way your doing things is sitting on a fence and you just trolled another user giving them a "cookie" so have at it. Your just being obtuse for the sake of "debate".
I am not into debating I stated how I felt and why along with the "they are in fact lowering the cost of the rest" multiple times but your focusing on my definition of epic which is the most rare of the rare. Somehow people spending the money to get to epic is too high yet you agree with the price.
they are tuning it as they have stated however once again in my opinion i actually feel that the price to get to an epic is actually not quite high enough. Because as someone who grinds fleets it actually feels to be quite a low number in the scheme of things.
400k for epics is damned cheap and anything I have tried to upgrade so far without focusing on the need for epic has cost me about 5k or sometimes 10k dilithium and looking at the intitial cost of the item (it was all rep gear) which in most cases was a bunch of marks, ec, and 32k dilithium it actually fits..
but i am not interested at this time in actually sinking dilithium into the chance for an epic maybe later but I am dumping any spare dilithium into a fleet so i will do that for now.
(still constructive even if you personally feel its not at least I am not trolling people offering them cookies..)
Sorry, but you're oversimplifying the matter (along with many others, btw). If this were real life, and people wanted to buy, say, a Maserati, then all the usual "But you don't HAVE to buy one!" rhetoric would hold 100% true.
This is, however, an MMO. And in a game like this, the very purpose of the game is being able to play it, in full. Which is to say, all goals should be attainable (unlike real life). If you design the game in such a way that only the super-rich, or mentally insane, can reach the end-goal, then the design is flawed, by definition. That is really where an MMO is divergent from real life, in that it is designed for full participation. That means: no Elite queues only 0.85% of your player base can access, and no Upgrade Cost (even to Ulra Rare) that are simply undoable for most. And no ueber-rate material drops, needed by all, but which can only be gotten in the Elites played by that selfsame 0.85% of your player base, either.
Sure, prior to DR, people could have stuck to using Mk XI blue stuff too. They didn't. And the reasons for wanting at least Ultra Rare Mk XIV gear now are exactly the same: people simply want to reach the game's end-goals.
You don't NEED to login either but people do. The point here isn't that he needed epic gear, the point is plane as day that he should have gotten what he paid for which was the epic gear. He did the grind or paid for it, it should be his.
This new trend that STO has started is the exact same reason why I stopped playing it's sister game NWO. They too have a system of failed enchants that are all RNG that make it almost impossible unless you are a whale to get to max level gear with max enchants.
This practice isn't new however, people should know that this system has been used in lesser games in the eastern markets for years. The RNG systems over there make vanilla WoW and any loot system we have here in the west pale in comparison. Everything is RNG to such an extreme degree that you can spend large amounts of money and suddenly lose it all, beyond any box system we see being used today, that failure to enchant system is the most extreme form of RNG in game design.
When people accept RNG as a system it just gets worse and worse for the gaming community. In 2010 none of the games out had these extremes in them, they were all using the basic 2004 or modern model of loot acquisition and improvement. Since 2011 with the release of SWTOR and it's changes to F2P, the release of games such as GW2 and it's changes in Nov 2012, the release of NWO, Archeage and Destiny, we're seeing a trend where these eastern systems have crept into the mmo market and are ruining the experience for many players in the west.
I've not logged back in for a week now, and I'm not missing it. All I had to look forward to in this title was grinding out these specialization levels, grinding out the crafting to make one or two pieces that would need immediate upgrades, grinding out dilithium just to upgrade said gear, and then grinding out more specialization points. I'm tired of grinding. Let me know when this industry returns to the Western standards we started to see in 2010.
At least that's how I understand it. But being a player with 45 characters with 14 ship slots each, I wouldn't mind if it were a hell of a lot cheaper...
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no one is stopping you from playing it in full. The content is playable with mark xII (all of it every danged q even the elites) epics are "for bragging rights" again using cryptics own words. You can if you so chooose play the rng game and get one in fact anyone can (unlike some games that lock it behind lenghty raids etc ) by sinking dilithium into the system.
Want and "need" are two seperate words. I want every danged ship in the game but I watch my budget and buy things as I can afford to. I have chosen to 'earn' my stuff using dilithium and not my wallet and sunk my money into a lifetime sub instead. I want it all and I want an epic set on all my ships and I want all the t6 ships and and and. I dont need them though and still play the game all the bits even that wierd battle of korfez elite i have tried it on my best geared guy a few times. I am not locked out of anything nothing is impossible in this game given time that is the point.
I have 4 guys i have outfitted I took a long long haitus and only just returned prior to delta rising. I have all my guys in purple gear now (some better then others) I have one guy that can hit first place in just about anything he tries and floats in purples. I Have 2 more on the rise and the 4th is getting there he is a fed and I hate the fed side so that is why I am so slow with him.
I had at the beginning of delta rising a guy in mostly green and white stuff he was new and just levelled to 50 just a week before delta hit. He is now outfitted about 3/4 now he is all mark xii purple stuff from rep sort of a hodge podge but it works... I could stop once i had all their mark xii sets and play the entire game and not upgrade an entire thing.
but like others .. i want an epic or three eventually but i will do it as I go along and also obtain my bragging rights. How am I not playing the entire game? lol
I dont consider myself one of those "elites" in fact if someone called me one i would probably ask them not to. LoL Yet I have it all and then some and I started playing with nothing because everything I had was so old because of how long I was gone from this game that it was nothing lol 45 was the level cap when i left. My guys were in pvp gear I obtained that was obsolete. I had.. nothing..
If i can do it an over the hill retired person with crappy reflexes anyone can but then I am not competitive I just do what I like and if others dont like it oh well its my dime not theirs
this sounds like a bug then if he paid it and didnt get it because otherwise he would have it so the price is not to high? and he was the victim of a bug then? lol
because the only way you know its epic is after you take it out and see the epic label.
Yes. Geko actually pretty much spelled it out like that in the latest podcast. But I'll tell him what I said earlier: I've been here ever since they went F2P, with most of the time just having the same old content (which is quite logical, btw: ppl just burn thru content way faster than it can be written). So, if I stayed thru all the draughts, why can't they trust me now to stay too? Why are they now suddenly so afraid I will walk when this or that goal has been completed? They could simply do what they did prior to DR: create a new Rep, or a new Fleet holding, etc. The insane costs really aren't necessary.
Kudos on the 45 alts, btw. I can no longer afford to keep up with my single alt, even.
No, you're right. People do stay. But back in season 8, a lot of people finished Dyson rep with 'nothing to do'. But they stayed. You think Cryptic made Delta Rising this way because of that?
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that's why I only upgrade mk12 rare or better and only up to mk14, I never gamble on quality.
if I happen to get a quality boost while upgrading from mk12 to mk14 fine but I never go chasing mk14 epic the risk of loosing everything is just too great.
upgrading anything less then mk12 is just too expensive.
all the items I have upgraded I have got exactly what I was expecting to get and sometimes a little better.
When I think about everything we've been through together,
maybe it's not the destination that matters, maybe it's the journey,
and if that journey takes a little longer,
so we can do something we all believe in,
I can't think of any place I'd rather be or any people I'd rather be with.
good point.. I don't go to forums usually I just play.. (I've been here longer yet have a fraction of your threads..), I was mistaken/misled whatever. As I've said throughout this post if you choose to accept the 'system' the way it currently stands it's on you - not me..
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I would but I hate forums regardless of the game. I would only come if I felt the need (hence lack of forum activity in the time in game.. - & it seems it's been longer than you). I've invested heavily in this game but I did as well in LOTRO (Lord of the Rings Online) & I was a monthly subscriber for years. To bad for them they screwed the game & it's dying. I hope a similar fate doesn't await STO. We shall see have friends pulling me several different ways, we shall see..:rolleyes:
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