Then consider most people in the pve queues consist of a lot of Player E's. Entire teams of Player E's all thinking the other 4 people on their team will be the one to carry them.
Oh I completely agree, and it really does not encourage a player with Ultra High DPS to help them do the work. I hated when I had my DPS meter going. As on average my Science toon had aproxamately my entire teams DPS x3. I have played with a LOT of science ships that have 100 dps. Which is not enough to kill anything due to passive regeneration.
Player Es are to blame for Pug problems, not A, B, C, and D in my opinion
In the first days after DR dropped I would say 90% (maybe more) of the advanced PUG's I played were epic failures. And a good portion of the normal fleet runs failed.
But since then, many have left, many have improved gear and tactics, many have found other ways to get some of the items they need, and the game has been somewhat re-balanced. As aresult I have found that PUG quality has improved.
Today as an example, I ran many Fleet alerts, Conduit runs, Vortex runs, Crystal runs, and Disconnected runs (on both sides) with my only terrible runs being on Disconnected. A couple of close calls but all pugs (a few with one fleetmate) and all succeeded (aside from that blasted disconnected run which we will never speak of again).
"If this will be our end, then I will have them make SUCH an end as to be worthy of rememberance! Out of torpedos you say?! Find me the ferengi!".
Cost to upgrade to make up for any or all of the above. Not every pug is bad but you have a really good chance of finding one or more each mission. The more you dump into upgrades the less you notice.
I haven't read through all of the responses, but I don't think the challenge of the STFs is entirely the issue, nor is it going in wiht an inexperienced pug team. Both of these can be overcome by experienced players willing to help.
The issue is griefers - those who pug in for the sole purpose of ensuring failure for the team because that's how they get theoir rocks off. Now that advanced and elite STFs have an insta-fail it makes the jobs of these griefers even easier.
This is why I won't pug and why I haven't been in an STF since DR....
So much this! Try PUGging Undine Infiltration Elite with a greifer, they ran to the end to get all the Undine to attack at once, then they stood in front of the hole you jump down to fight the final Boss and put up Cover Shield after Cover Shield so we were unable to get to the hole, thus preventing us from completing the mission. Whoever is in the fleet that rhymes with "Taint Bolivia", you have a very lonely member who needs a friend.
So much this! Try PUGging Undine Infiltration Elite with a greifer, they ran to the end to get all the Undine to attack at once, then they stood in front of the hole you jump down to fight the final Boss and put up Cover Shield after Cover Shield so we were unable to get to the hole, thus preventing us from completing the mission. Whoever is in the fleet that rhymes with "Taint Bolivia", you have a very lonely member who needs a friend.
the fleet leader has been very active in rooting the guy you mentioned out it seems. She also seems to encourage people who have been harassed (such as you) to report the guy as well Nice to see a fleet leader taking an active role in taking care of issues such as this I say
You're pretty much stating all the problems people have with pugs. It seems 70% of pug players have no idea what they're doing, and don't care. I should be able to rely on my teammates to carry their own weight, and to at least read up on what's required to complete a mission successfully. That issue with people hitting generators too early, it happens way more often than not, and most of the time no one has any means to stop the spheres before failure. I've watched teams start out great in khitomer vortex, but then they leave probe duty to the weakest player, and expect them to take care of it. They assume everyone else does 60k dps like they do, and thats that. Basically, pugs suck because players suck.
Honestly I've been in the same boat for a while now and have gotten to the point I can only shake my head when yet another "STFs are too hard! Cryptic Sucks! The game is no fun anymore!" thread pops up. Personally I never saw STFs as a means to an end: they give dil, marks, and components for the rep systems and not all the rep systems are worth the effort. I've completed them all on my main, getting every piece of gear and tech I could or wanted, and IMHO only Omega, Counter-Command, and Delta seem to be of any real use (New Romulus too if you play a Rommy and want authentic Romulan tech on your ship.) Of them only Omega Task Force and Delta Command require STFing. The former was a pain before DR and the later has Bug Hunt, which is a breeze even on Elite if you load up on the toxic resistance and have a good engineer to turtle around.
I think the problem, at its core, twofold. On one hand you have a subsection of players. You'll find them in any MMO. To them the game itself does not matter. They aren't there for the atmosphere, the design, the story or character creation options. They are here for stats. How much more damage does this weapon do over this one? How much damage does this armor take over that one? How much HP does it have? What's its AC? How fast can I kill it? How much faster than anyone else can I kill it? How much XP does killing this enemy get me and how many will it take to get me to the next level? For these players its a pure numbers game and they build their own personal accolades around those numbers. Everything else is pure fluff and at best should be ignored or at worst not have Dev time "wasted" on it.
Now this is onto itself is not a bad thing per say nor a judgment on anyone's play style, but it does set it self for the second problem. DR was STO's first level cap hike. Its the first time in years (since the original release I believe) the bar was raised and gameplay significantly and suddenly changed. In the interceding time a good number of player had grown quite accustomed to the status quo. They had spent X number of years and X amount of zen tweaking, adjusting, running numbers and building their ships and toons to a point that the existing difficulty levels were no longer difficult. They got comfortable in knowing that they were the top of the heap and seemed to expected that, even with the cap raise and STF changes, they would regain that status in a relatively short amount of time.
This is why I find comparing LoR to DR disingenuous at least and a false equivocation at most. LoR didn't change the game. It simply added another faction and rep system for the number runners to max out on, but kept the cap so they had a clear and known point to get to. Delta Rising changed the STF difficulty and completion requirements, the leveling progression, and introduced the Specialization and upgrade system (neither of which is cheap or quick if you want the very best very quickly.) Players who had gotten used to being "Elite" suddenly found their status shaken and players who had gotten used to skirting by with the bare minimum found themselves scrambling to catch up. As I've said before in any game where "three can pug if two can carry" is the norm, even the tiniest of monkeywrenches is going to upset that balance. And Delta Rising, to put it mildly, was NOT tiny.
I don't like using broad generalizations however as I've looked through many of the "BETRAAAAAAYLE" threads about DR (and oh my there are a few) this is what many of the complaints and accusations seem boil down to. People citing pre and post release XP/Dil/etc rewards. People putting up DPS stats vs critter health pools. People calculating out exactly how much dil it would take upgrade an item or how many days it would take to reach the max level in the crafting schools. People throwing up Steam charts (protip: I'm pretty sure Cryptic has its own methods of tracking players logged in and is probably well aware of any drop offs, thank you.) People raging against Cryptic, howling for blood in some cases, not because game is actually "broken" but because the numbers changed and some players don't want to change with it. And is that Cryptic's fault?
No..
Except it is. Either they didn't "manage expectations" properly, or didn't educate the player base properly or didn't listen to the player base. No matter how you slice it Cryptic made a major change, Cryptic is responsible for the change, both good and bad. Authority and responsibility go hand in hand, only Cryptic has the authority to change the game, only Cryptic has the responsibility for what the changes bring.
I know it may sound like I'm "blaming the victim" and being a "Cryptic fanboi" and if you think so then you are mistaken. Cryptic has and will continue to make mistakes and have its problems. I have my own pet beefs with them. But it comes down to this: the STFs, at any difficulty, are NOT unwinnable. They do NOT require people sinking months of grinding and endless upgrades to get gear to play them. The only requirement they have now is players learn the missions, work together, and actually put a little effort into them. That's it. You want to improve the success rates? How about posting in the walkthroughs gear and level recommendations? How about putting up forum threads that outline the mission requirements at the various levels and how to achieve them?
Resetting the STFs back to their old settings is NOT a viable strategy, both from a business sense and probably a technical standpoint either. Cryptic has, both in word and deed, been making adjustments and will probably continue to do so over the next few months, but the old numbers are not coming back. Why? Not because they hate their players or want to TRIBBLE their players or want to kill the game, but because they have to keep this game growing, changing, and evolving, both for new players with new expectations and old players looking for a new challenge. That is the nature of MMOs. That is the nature of ANY MMOs. Your numbers don't factor into it. They never did and they never will. The bar is never going to be permanently set and if you can not deal with that then maybe you shouldn't be playing MMOs in general.
One problem I do see with STFs is that advanced players who have done them enough to have them down pat, don't help the new players playing an advanced STF for the first time learn what they need, and how to successfully complete the STF. Most advanced and elite STFs require some level of teamwork even a team of five 30k blast boats can TRIBBLE it up if they try. Instead they howl about how the noobs are TRIBBLE them up and causing them to fail. News flash, if your team including the noobs fail, you fail. So why not use the 30 seconds before the STF starts to outlining a winning strategy?. In most cases two sentences would be enough. "four Go right, finish the right then go left. Someone cover the gateway" Everyone, and I do mean everyone has been the new player on an advanced STF.
I win at Kitomer advanced almost all the time, but I've never seen any post even a single sentence of advice or tactics.
Space the final frontier. These are the voyages of [your name here] on a five year mission to gain one level after the delta rising xp nerf.
Cost to upgrade to make up for any or all of the above. Not every pug is bad but you have a really good chance of finding one or more each mission. The more you dump into upgrades the less you notice.
For the most part I agree. People who don't have the hardware to help out shouldn't be in the advanced queues. There are always going to be new people in the queues because there are always people trying to advance, so coaching them is a much better tactic than some people who scream abiout noobs. AFKers and Griefers are scum plain and simple.
Space the final frontier. These are the voyages of [your name here] on a five year mission to gain one level after the delta rising xp nerf.
One problem I do see with STFs is that advanced players who have done them enough to have them down pat, don't help the new players playing an advanced STF for the first time learn what they need, and how to successfully complete the STF. Most advanced and elite STFs require some level of teamwork even a team of five 30k blast boats can TRIBBLE it up if they try. Instead they howl about how the noobs are TRIBBLE them up and causing them to fail. News flash, if your team including the noobs fail, you fail. So why not use the 30 seconds before the STF starts to outlining a winning strategy?. In most cases two sentences would be enough. "four Go right, finish the right then go left. Someone cover the gateway" Everyone, and I do mean everyone has been the new player on an advanced STF..
That's not exactly true. I don't know how many times I've gone into an ISA, said in team... "Go left. Don't blow the gens until we're all ready and we'll blow them at the same time"... and someone will either go off on their own to the other side and try and John Wayne it, or someone will blow their respected generator then ignore the fact that they just unleashed the swarm.
You can talk to your blue in the face, and people just won't care. Either they want to ruin it for you, think they're better then they really are, or expect you to carry it for them, and just don't care about strategy. They just want the boom boom.
Inevitably it's the guy that screws it over for everyone and ignores the strategy that complains at the end too or leave early. But I've lost count on how many times I've laid out a strategy and people just simply ignore it.
Then consider most people in the pve queues consist of a lot of Player E's. Entire teams of Player E's all thinking the other 4 people on their team will be the one to carry them.
It is kind of funny, the idea of DPS carrying tanks. Because in every other MMO I played, outside of specific encounters designed for pressure DPS, it was the opposite or would alternate, such that DPS would be largely for trash clears and backup on fights.
Thing is, it's really hard to tank in this game.Ideally for tanking to be viable, you need not just 5x the durability of everyone else but you need to be able to hold threat even if you do less damage. And you can't hold aggro here across vast DPS disparities, nor can you avoid aggro while outdpsing everyone else.
That's not exactly true. I don't know how many times I've gone into an ISA, said in team... "Go left. Don't blow the gens until we're all ready and we'll blow them at the same time"... and someone will either go off on their own to the other side and try and John Wayne it, or someone will blow their respected generator then ignore the fact that they just unleashed the swarm.
You can talk to your blue in the face, and people just won't care. Either they want to ruin it for you, think they're better then they really are, or expect you to carry it for them, and just don't care about strategy. They just want the boom boom.
Inevitably it's the guy that screws it over for everyone and ignores the strategy that complains at the end too or leave early. But I've lost count on how many times I've laid out a strategy and people just simply ignore it.
They may just turn the chat window off. It's not like you need it for most of the game and a lot of what you'd see in STFs wouldn't be very helpful.
Very good OP. You make the correct observation: Not more DPS is key (not only) but adaption. Adaption holds the far greater potential and is possible even with the Dkyr Sciship.
But its easier to whine about how unfair it is than to simply take 5minutes to think about your build.
I cannot convince others to turn off auto attack and/or press 'F' the majority of the time (BDA, ANA) in PuGs. And I cannot carry rescue thanks to timers/splitting up.
Oh I completely agree, and it really does not encourage a player with Ultra High DPS to help them do the work. I hated when I had my DPS meter going. As on average my Science toon had aproxamately my entire teams DPS x3. I have played with a LOT of science ships that have 100 dps. Which is not enough to kill anything due to passive regeneration.
Player Es are to blame for Pug problems, not A, B, C, and D in my opinion
Dear lord, what is that thing you have as an avatar, a cat?
Lol, it looks like that fuzzy creature, from the dark crystal!
It is kind of funny, the idea of DPS carrying tanks. Because in every other MMO I played, outside of specific encounters designed for pressure DPS, it was the opposite or would alternate, such that DPS would be largely for trash clears and backup on fights.
Thing is, it's really hard to tank in this game.Ideally for tanking to be viable, you need not just 5x the durability of everyone else but you need to be able to hold threat even if you do less damage. And you can't hold aggro here across vast DPS disparities, nor can you avoid aggro while outdpsing everyone else.
If you think one cant be both, DPS and Tank, you might want to get on the drawing board for your ships again. That said, a 15k Ody can hold aggro against 60k scimitars without much sweat. And 15k is a very conservative, defensive build.
If you think one cant be both, DPS and Tank, you might want to get on the drawing board for your ships again. That said, a 15k Ody can hold aggro against 60k scimitars without much sweat. And 15k is a very conservative, defensive build.
My problem is precisely that you can be both.
I agree that you can be both. I think it's great that you can.
I'm saying that you have to be both.
You can't "just tank" in STO and that's somewhat messed up.
If you can't out-tank significantly higher DPS allies, then the game doesn't really have tanking. It just has survivable DPS.
I am going to put my 2 ec in here. I am not a new player as I have been playing for about three years but I am a very casual player and have mostly created toons did story missions and deleted. I have ran crystilline and conduit and have gotten several toons on max rep and always ran on the old elite with no problem since they made the new advanced harder I can only do the crystilline on advanced. everything I read said that people need to learn how to do the stf instead of having dps and that may be true for some, however the advanced is just not doable unless you have high dps.
next everybody complains that people need teamwork, well if that is so then why in any stf that I have been in do I not see any chat in the team part,nlbody says one word about what they are doing so my question is how are people supposed to do teamwork with no communication?
if you are supposed to blow the gens at the same time and 1 person can't do that how is anybody supposed to know when to blow the gen with again no communication?
I see complaing but I have not seen one written word on helping people learn how to do them. I stay out of all stf's except crystilline advanced, fleet alert and conduit normal (due to not enough dps) just because I don't know how to do the others and I don't want to get yelled at for TRIBBLE it up with everybody already complaining about pugs
problem pugs is simple the don't know the mission or understand the teamwork aspect of it
just the other day i was trying to explain the new azure rescue to focus on tracor beams less on the fighting i was called a moron for it i said ok will try it his the old way and we lost
i amgetting tired of the rudeness of players like that when all you try to do is teach them the mission let me be blunt here pug players don't listen 99% of the time lose
that is the problem not everybody in pugs is clueless they just get tired of being called names, I was in a pug the other day and one of the guys was calling everybody TRIBBLE newbs and you know what when someone starts that i essentially quit trying. not everybody trys to help in fact I have never had anybody post in team chat anything helpful but name calling
I am going to put my 2 ec in here. I am not a new player as I have been playing for about three years but I am a very casual player and have mostly created toons did story missions and deleted. I have ran crystilline and conduit and have gotten several toons on max rep and always ran on the old elite with no problem since they made the new advanced harder I can only do the crystilline on advanced. everything I read said that people need to learn how to do the stf instead of having dps and that may be true for some, however the advanced is just not doable unless you have high dps.
next everybody complains that people need teamwork, well if that is so then why in any stf that I have been in do I not see any chat in the team part,nlbody says one word about what they are doing so my question is how are people supposed to do teamwork with no communication?
if you are supposed to blow the gens at the same time and 1 person can't do that how is anybody supposed to know when to blow the gen with again no communication?
I see complaing but I have not seen one written word on helping people learn how to do them. I stay out of all stf's except crystilline advanced, fleet alert and conduit normal (due to not enough dps) just because I don't know how to do the others and I don't want to get yelled at for TRIBBLE it up with everybody already complaining about pugs
Sorry, my OP was long enough so I cut some detail. Let me fill in the rest.
I used ISA because thats the map all new players have to prove themselves on to get access to the no newbs zone, the 10k channel. STO's training dummy. So they can get with people that can help them get the rest of there gear.
I used my engineer because its the least developed of my toons and not a Tac, Ran with the Solanaea set since its an easy set to get for a new lvl 50 player. MKII weapons.
I set my build to be Focused Single target to get around the fact people ignore chat. Meaning I could take out the Generators myself fast enough so everyones FAW spam will hit the Transformer when it counts faster. Instead of FAW just in range of the front side, 2 Gens and a transformer thats protected since the backside they cant reach, etc.
Point was you can reliably win a Pug ISA in pretty basic gear, Without being a Tac, if you know how the map works. What to take out in what order. even if the rest of the team is pretty useless so long as there trying.
By going single Target, if the pug pops a gen early you got alot better chance at still winning, by going single target, because your DPS "where it matters" means more then AOE. Easier in an Intel ship for sure.
...one of the guys was calling everybody TRIBBLE newbs...
These people are the sort that should be banned. That is not only offensive language, but it demonstrates a lack of morals and understanding.
But on point, PUGS are more difficult now. Some are under equipped, some just don't know what to do. I try and help, like in Azure, get people to split up for the optional. But when you try and help? You either get blanked or told to f*** off. And this from four people who go to one ship.
Sometimes I don't want to help when people get snooty, if I see it's going south I'll just leave and queue again.
If you've come to the forums to complain about the AFK system, it's known to be bugged at the moment.
Here is a clear example from today: I pugged Undine Infiltration Elite. Before the mission started one other guy and me wrote in the team chat don't answer questions if you don't know the answer.
Guess what happened next? Mission failed 10 second later! :mad:
that is the problem not everybody in pugs is clueless they just get tired of being called names, I was in a pug the other day and one of the guys was calling everybody TRIBBLE newbs and you know what when someone starts that i essentially quit trying. not everybody trys to help in fact I have never had anybody post in team chat anything helpful but name calling
I tend to put the guy on ignore and if I can leave the instance if I cant i just sit there and let whatever it is shooting at me kill me and then leave. At first I used to just use ignore but I grew tired of being verbally abused and then helping to "win" an instance for said abuser soo now I just leave. Although since my ignore list has gotten so large its possible people are still insulting me and others only I dont know it lol because I can't remember all the names of the people who did that.
Why should a Player with 20k DPS want to play with those that have 1k DPS? Is there a benefit for him?
Sorry, but it is all coming down to greed. I do not like carrying teams, nobody does. While 1k dps is yes, 1k dps I do not have to do. I would rather not have to go all out and try super hard when i can team up with other players sporting 10k+ sustained DPS and finish matches much faster and easier.
Name calling isnt right, but neither is forcing them to play with you because you can not do it with out them.
Why should a Player with 20k DPS want to play with those that have 1k DPS? Is there a benefit for him?
.
Fun? A Challenge?
I actually enjoy playing with a pug. Never know what its gonna be. I see a gen popped early I know I gotta go,go,go. "Can we still do this?"
One leaves, "how much times left?" "Can we still do it?" And when/if we do, it feels good to win against the odds. Rather then a sure thing, be done in a few minutes with a high DPS team. I mean I have all my gear except waiting for Dilithium refining every day to do another upgrade. so what does it matter if it does fail?
At least thats my point of view. I don't pug Korfez Elite or Borg Diconnected. But ISA? Khitomer? etc. why not I dont need anymore drops from it.
Why should a Player with 20k DPS want to play with those that have 1k DPS? Is there a benefit for him?
I consider pugging like going to the zoo. You wont see animals there, but players with very limited perception and cognitive capacity, which is basically the same though.
Comments
Oh I completely agree, and it really does not encourage a player with Ultra High DPS to help them do the work. I hated when I had my DPS meter going. As on average my Science toon had aproxamately my entire teams DPS x3. I have played with a LOT of science ships that have 100 dps. Which is not enough to kill anything due to passive regeneration.
Player Es are to blame for Pug problems, not A, B, C, and D in my opinion
But since then, many have left, many have improved gear and tactics, many have found other ways to get some of the items they need, and the game has been somewhat re-balanced. As aresult I have found that PUG quality has improved.
Today as an example, I ran many Fleet alerts, Conduit runs, Vortex runs, Crystal runs, and Disconnected runs (on both sides) with my only terrible runs being on Disconnected. A couple of close calls but all pugs (a few with one fleetmate) and all succeeded (aside from that blasted disconnected run which we will never speak of again).
"If this will be our end, then I will have them make SUCH an end as to be worthy of rememberance! Out of torpedos you say?! Find me the ferengi!".
Afkers
Sabotage group
Cost to upgrade to make up for any or all of the above. Not every pug is bad but you have a really good chance of finding one or more each mission. The more you dump into upgrades the less you notice.
Click to Join armadafleet.org/
So much this! Try PUGging Undine Infiltration Elite with a greifer, they ran to the end to get all the Undine to attack at once, then they stood in front of the hole you jump down to fight the final Boss and put up Cover Shield after Cover Shield so we were unable to get to the hole, thus preventing us from completing the mission. Whoever is in the fleet that rhymes with "Taint Bolivia", you have a very lonely member who needs a friend.
http://stolivia.com/
the fleet leader has been very active in rooting the guy you mentioned out it seems. She also seems to encourage people who have been harassed (such as you) to report the guy as well
Except it is. Either they didn't "manage expectations" properly, or didn't educate the player base properly or didn't listen to the player base. No matter how you slice it Cryptic made a major change, Cryptic is responsible for the change, both good and bad. Authority and responsibility go hand in hand, only Cryptic has the authority to change the game, only Cryptic has the responsibility for what the changes bring.
One problem I do see with STFs is that advanced players who have done them enough to have them down pat, don't help the new players playing an advanced STF for the first time learn what they need, and how to successfully complete the STF. Most advanced and elite STFs require some level of teamwork even a team of five 30k blast boats can TRIBBLE it up if they try. Instead they howl about how the noobs are TRIBBLE them up and causing them to fail. News flash, if your team including the noobs fail, you fail. So why not use the 30 seconds before the STF starts to outlining a winning strategy?. In most cases two sentences would be enough. "four Go right, finish the right then go left. Someone cover the gateway" Everyone, and I do mean everyone has been the new player on an advanced STF.
I win at Kitomer advanced almost all the time, but I've never seen any post even a single sentence of advice or tactics.
For the most part I agree. People who don't have the hardware to help out shouldn't be in the advanced queues. There are always going to be new people in the queues because there are always people trying to advance, so coaching them is a much better tactic than some people who scream abiout noobs. AFKers and Griefers are scum plain and simple.
That's not exactly true. I don't know how many times I've gone into an ISA, said in team... "Go left. Don't blow the gens until we're all ready and we'll blow them at the same time"... and someone will either go off on their own to the other side and try and John Wayne it, or someone will blow their respected generator then ignore the fact that they just unleashed the swarm.
You can talk to your blue in the face, and people just won't care. Either they want to ruin it for you, think they're better then they really are, or expect you to carry it for them, and just don't care about strategy. They just want the boom boom.
Inevitably it's the guy that screws it over for everyone and ignores the strategy that complains at the end too or leave early. But I've lost count on how many times I've laid out a strategy and people just simply ignore it.
It is kind of funny, the idea of DPS carrying tanks. Because in every other MMO I played, outside of specific encounters designed for pressure DPS, it was the opposite or would alternate, such that DPS would be largely for trash clears and backup on fights.
Thing is, it's really hard to tank in this game.Ideally for tanking to be viable, you need not just 5x the durability of everyone else but you need to be able to hold threat even if you do less damage. And you can't hold aggro here across vast DPS disparities, nor can you avoid aggro while outdpsing everyone else.
They may just turn the chat window off. It's not like you need it for most of the game and a lot of what you'd see in STFs wouldn't be very helpful.
I cannot convince others to turn off auto attack and/or press 'F' the majority of the time (BDA, ANA) in PuGs. And I cannot carry rescue thanks to timers/splitting up.
That speaks volumes to me.
Dear lord, what is that thing you have as an avatar, a cat?
Lol, it looks like that fuzzy creature, from the dark crystal!
https://www.google.com/search?q=furry+creature+in+the+dark+crystal&rlz=1T4GGHP_enUS614US614&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ei=TvFzVJfGObWLsQTojIL4DA&ved=0CCkQsAQ&biw=1600&bih=721
Fizzgig.
Praetor of the -RTS- Romulan Tal Shiar fleet!
If you think one cant be both, DPS and Tank, you might want to get on the drawing board for your ships again. That said, a 15k Ody can hold aggro against 60k scimitars without much sweat. And 15k is a very conservative, defensive build.
My problem is precisely that you can be both.
I agree that you can be both. I think it's great that you can.
I'm saying that you have to be both.
You can't "just tank" in STO and that's somewhat messed up.
If you can't out-tank significantly higher DPS allies, then the game doesn't really have tanking. It just has survivable DPS.
next everybody complains that people need teamwork, well if that is so then why in any stf that I have been in do I not see any chat in the team part,nlbody says one word about what they are doing so my question is how are people supposed to do teamwork with no communication?
if you are supposed to blow the gens at the same time and 1 person can't do that how is anybody supposed to know when to blow the gen with again no communication?
I see complaing but I have not seen one written word on helping people learn how to do them. I stay out of all stf's except crystilline advanced, fleet alert and conduit normal (due to not enough dps) just because I don't know how to do the others and I don't want to get yelled at for TRIBBLE it up with everybody already complaining about pugs
just the other day i was trying to explain the new azure rescue to focus on tracor beams less on the fighting i was called a moron for it i said ok will try it his the old way and we lost
i amgetting tired of the rudeness of players like that when all you try to do is teach them the mission let me be blunt here pug players don't listen 99% of the time lose
Sorry, my OP was long enough so I cut some detail. Let me fill in the rest.
I used ISA because thats the map all new players have to prove themselves on to get access to the no newbs zone, the 10k channel. STO's training dummy. So they can get with people that can help them get the rest of there gear.
I used my engineer because its the least developed of my toons and not a Tac, Ran with the Solanaea set since its an easy set to get for a new lvl 50 player. MKII weapons.
I set my build to be Focused Single target to get around the fact people ignore chat. Meaning I could take out the Generators myself fast enough so everyones FAW spam will hit the Transformer when it counts faster. Instead of FAW just in range of the front side, 2 Gens and a transformer thats protected since the backside they cant reach, etc.
Point was you can reliably win a Pug ISA in pretty basic gear, Without being a Tac, if you know how the map works. What to take out in what order. even if the rest of the team is pretty useless so long as there trying.
By going single Target, if the pug pops a gen early you got alot better chance at still winning, by going single target, because your DPS "where it matters" means more then AOE. Easier in an Intel ship for sure.
These people are the sort that should be banned. That is not only offensive language, but it demonstrates a lack of morals and understanding.
But on point, PUGS are more difficult now. Some are under equipped, some just don't know what to do. I try and help, like in Azure, get people to split up for the optional. But when you try and help? You either get blanked or told to f*** off. And this from four people who go to one ship.
Sometimes I don't want to help when people get snooty, if I see it's going south I'll just leave and queue again.
Here is a clear example from today: I pugged Undine Infiltration Elite. Before the mission started one other guy and me wrote in the team chat don't answer questions if you don't know the answer.
Guess what happened next? Mission failed 10 second later! :mad:
And that is happening rather frequently lately.
https://youtube.com/user/MyBalkanGaming
I tend to put the guy on ignore and if I can leave the instance if I cant i just sit there and let whatever it is shooting at me kill me and then leave. At first I used to just use ignore but I grew tired of being verbally abused and then helping to "win" an instance for said abuser soo now I just leave. Although since my ignore list has gotten so large its possible people are still insulting me and others only I dont know it lol because I can't remember all the names of the people who did that.
Why should a Player with 20k DPS want to play with those that have 1k DPS? Is there a benefit for him?
Sorry, but it is all coming down to greed. I do not like carrying teams, nobody does. While 1k dps is yes, 1k dps I do not have to do. I would rather not have to go all out and try super hard when i can team up with other players sporting 10k+ sustained DPS and finish matches much faster and easier.
Name calling isnt right, but neither is forcing them to play with you because you can not do it with out them.
Fun? A Challenge?
I actually enjoy playing with a pug. Never know what its gonna be. I see a gen popped early I know I gotta go,go,go. "Can we still do this?"
One leaves, "how much times left?" "Can we still do it?" And when/if we do, it feels good to win against the odds. Rather then a sure thing, be done in a few minutes with a high DPS team. I mean I have all my gear except waiting for Dilithium refining every day to do another upgrade. so what does it matter if it does fail?
At least thats my point of view. I don't pug Korfez Elite or Borg Diconnected. But ISA? Khitomer? etc. why not I dont need anymore drops from it.
I consider pugging like going to the zoo. You wont see animals there, but players with very limited perception and cognitive capacity, which is basically the same though.