I would have less off a problem with the upgrade if all ships could be upgraded however since 2 of my toons are flying ships that can't be upgraded at all so it is a good thing I found that out before spending the zen on the upgade tokens.
I think all ships should be able to be upgraded
the list of what is and isn't upgradeable has been up for some time
Your pain runs deep.
Let us explore it... together. Each man hides a secret pain. It must be exposed and reckoned with. It must be dragged from the darkness and forced into the light. Share your pain. Share your pain with me... and gain strength from the sharing.
that doesn't mean that the list is a good idea. all mirror ships are not upgradable and in most of my toons that's half the fleet.
I did not mention anything about the quality of ships to upgrade. I merely stated that the list was up for a while when the poster mentioned that they just found out his ships couldn't be upgraded.
Your pain runs deep.
Let us explore it... together. Each man hides a secret pain. It must be exposed and reckoned with. It must be dragged from the darkness and forced into the light. Share your pain. Share your pain with me... and gain strength from the sharing.
I would never spend 700 Zen on an upgrade module, that seems like way too much. But then I would not spend 500 Zen on a Fleet Module either. Come to think of it, the only purchases I will pay for with Zen are the Ships and account unlocks such as characters.
I own the Oddey Pack, Karfi, MvAE, Atrox from the Store.
I have bought fleet modules from the exchange, at 8 million a pop, they are so easy to afford.
I will be upgrading all my ships to T5-U with buying the upgrades from the exchange which are hovering around 10 mil now, peanuts for the upgrade.
EC flows like water in this game, and pretty much all the things you want are tradeable for EC. So what is the cost exactly for those who do not want to open the wallet up.
If you are struggling with getting EC, I suggest learning the concept of buy low, sell high! With a little seed money (7 Days of Tour the Galaxy on 1 Toon) and this concept, I can turn a few million into 100 million in less than two weeks, 30 minutes a day on a single trading Toon.
So all the upgrades for my ships, 4/5 Days of EC building, peanuts!
The awesome thing about the exchange, the more you study it, the better you become at spotting trends, items of value and sure bets.
There are no T6 ships that match the ships I fly with play-style, and I like my ships. I do not see the point of changing when the upgrade allows the ships I do fly to be 90% as effective if not more than a T6 ship.
One day I may indeed see a T6 I want, and I will get it through the Store for Zen, till then, thanks Cryptic for giving me the chance of upgrading my older hulls to advance with the level cap increase.
Lastly, I do not LockBox, not ever, and will not buy a LockBox ship from the exchange.
And I have a superb combo ground/space trait called patience!
I'm ... almost happy to hear that ... but not for the reason you might think .
Since you're one of the more active posters who belongs in the group of posters here who quite enjoy hackling , talking down at and making fun of other posters for your own amusements (posters who may not have words like "auspice" in their day to day vocabulary) , but posters who all the same attempt to convey the sum of your simple sentence above ... -- well , I am almost happy that now you know how they felt like .
But then there you go, and you by yourself remove my chance at happiness ... -- that very chance that by this very event , something in you might have grown and evolved .
Or in short , that you've learned something .
Sadly , by your own words , that does not sound like it ...
I will still play STO and remain objective and unbiased in my criticisms of both the dev team and the playerbase,
Objective and unbiased ... uhumm ... .
Except that long a$$ post of yours reeks of nothing of the two terms above .
" .... somebody call the DOOOOMMMM squad ... , we have a live one over here ... "
Sounds familiar ?
Now man up and QQ about something that's actually important and game breaking ... like Janeway / Tuvok's coffee cup having no handle ... , or ... cats ...
the list of what is and isn't upgradeable has been up for some time[/QUOT
And what about the people that had the ships BEFORE the list was put out? EVERY ship should be upgradeable.
this makes no sense..of course people would have these ships before the list came out. I am merely pointing out the list was out for a long time so people could find out way before tuesday if their ship is upgradeable.
Your pain runs deep.
Let us explore it... together. Each man hides a secret pain. It must be exposed and reckoned with. It must be dragged from the darkness and forced into the light. Share your pain. Share your pain with me... and gain strength from the sharing.
I think the problem is Cryptic was worried that if people could upgrade their ships to full their 6 for 700 zen that no one would buy their new designs.
They made a business decision without knowing their customers.
People will always buy new ships i for one have a alt who is going to get the Guardian when i can afford it.
If they had given a full tier 6 without intel slots and consoles and all the extras it wouldn't be much of a problem, they need to realize that some may be attached to certain ships but other will always buy new ones.
Forcing people to upgrade rather than giving them the choice is a bad business decision, one that will in the end byte them in the TRIBBLE if they keep up with it.
"It appears we have lost our sex appeal, captain."- Tuvok
I think the problem is Cryptic was worried that if people could upgrade their ships to full their 6 for 700 zen that no one would buy their new designs.
They made a business decision without knowing their customers.
People will always buy new ships i for one have a alt who is going to get the Guardian when i can afford it.
If they had given a full tier 6 without intel slots and consoles and all the extras it wouldn't be much of a problem, they need to realize that some may be attached to certain ships but other will always buy new ones.
Forcing people to upgrade rather than giving them the choice is a bad business decision, one that will in the end byte them in the TRIBBLE if they keep up with it.
All they do is sell powercreep. They probably thought everybody would want T6, and they would do a favor by selling half an upgrade for cheap.
I find the need to charge for the upgrades a bit ambiguous, for example the caitian atrox carrier i bought need 700zen to upgrade but cardassian galor class from box is free to upgrade, and dyson ships, the ones gives for free in event a some time ago, can be upgraded for free but the ship Odyssey Star Cruiser given in event cant be upgraded...
im complaining, yes, because i dont see a fix patern.
I find the need to charge for the upgrades a bit ambiguous, for example the caitian atrox carrier i bought need 700zen to upgrade but cardassian galor class from box is free to upgrade, and dyson ships, the ones gives for free in event a some time ago, can be upgraded for free but the ship Odyssey Star Cruiser given in event cant be upgraded...
im complaining, yes, because i dont see a fix patern.
Honestly, I think Cryptic giving the Lockbox/Lobi/Event ships free upgrades is a godsend. Lockbox and Lobi ships are easily about $200 spent. An event ship is usually 25 days of events. People would throw even bigger fits if they had to spend another dime on prizes ships like that.
The upgrade is intentionally less than T6, will be even less after Fleet T6 are released.
This upgrade scheme cost Cryptic very little, it's essentially a copy/paste/revision job with no new visual additions -- just numbers in the game's database.
While I may not agree with what you have to say, I will fight to the death your right to say it.
That's one way of circumventing a longer and more precise answer .
I just have to wonder how long your emotional memory is towards such disappointments , like the one that you've had ... , as per your example TOR was released quite a while back ... .
See , I'm not worried that your current disappointment will fade away with time .
Nor am I worried too much that you may join the ranks of the "haters" to whom disappointment with Cryptic feels like a known and comfortable quantity ... like worn leather .
The only thing that concerns me is this statement :
I will still play STO and remain objective and unbiased in my criticisms of both the dev team and the playerbase,
As "objective and unbiased" attitudes are difficult at the best of times ... and having / talking about a disappointment (that matches a disappointment with TOR from years gone by) and with the same breath talking about "objective and unbiased" is the kind of deception that I fear the most .
Self deception .
... so yeah ... , cats ... I think they're awesome ...
Now let's just hope that when T6 Fleet ships come about , you won't have to pay for your T5-U ships once again to get them to T6 Fleet level ... .
so are you happy that to upgrade your ship you will have to pay 700 zen is that a fair Price in your eyes or do you fill its to expencive and not worth it whats your views guys
All of the ships I play with were free upgrades so it seems a fair price to me I like free.
So after my last post, upgraded My Fleet Karfi Carrier.
WOW
What a difference it made, even at level 50.
Hull went from 52427 to 64346, thats 12k
Shields from 12589 to 13978
Even my Elite Fer,Jai frigates go up in hull from 31k to 33k in an advanced que
(lvl 60)
The 4 starship mastery unlocks are
1 40.9% hanger pets recharge time reduction and 50% rank up for pets, this with the 100% rankup starship trait, I am getting 150% pet rank up
2 10% Hull - that will place the ship at 70K hull
3) 10% Damage - that will add another 2K damage to the Karfi
4) 10% Shield Hitpoints - will take shields to over 15k
My Frigates dealt tons of damage in Kang Que advanced, they can pop nanites on their own in no time, finally feels like they are doing serious damage. Plus they are ranking so quick they do not die and seem to have learnt to get away from warp core breaches.
And all of this at level 50 without any of the 4 unlocks done.
Bar the extra Boff ability and Intelligence officer abilities which the T6 Offer (Which are different, not more potent in my opinion, they have uses, but then most Boff abilities have uses. Its a matter of choice and play-style) I do not see the T6 as being that more powerful.
With teh 11th console I placed in a fleet neutronium with +20 damage resist, all defence resists are now over 37%
But I could have used that slot for one of the many awesome consoles I have for an extra clicky
I will test it with the Phase shift console, or maybe the Varanus repair console, or Induction kit.
Overall, T5-U is competitive, without a doubt and at 9 Million for the console yesterday, its an absolute bargain.
I can keep my Karfi in the battle for a good while longer indeed
so are you happy that to upgrade your ship you will have to pay 700 zen is that a fair Price in your eyes or do you fill its to expencive and not worth it whats your views guys
the stipend will cover 500 of that, i can find another 200 within 2 days without much issue if i work at it. i intend to not head to dq until on my excelsior on my main has reached t5u first.
T6 Miranda Hero Ship FTW. Been around since Dec 2010 on STO and bought LTS in Apr 2013 for STO.
They're not, really. With T5's and 12 abilities, we've already got solid builds. An extra ability slot for the T6s isn't going to change the builds much. (For example, a T6 version of my JHDC would mean I pick up TSS, or something redundant.) The Intel ships basically add an Intel ability on top of that, or we sacrifice something from the 12-ability builds to get two.
I hit T5 in a Phantom and an Eclipse. In the Phantom, that basically means I could carry two copies of EMP probes or Override Subsystem Safety, and still be a FAW beamscort. In the Eclipse, I could use two copies of Surgical Strike (in the Engineering/Intel station) and use the 4 Tactical slots for two TT1s and two APBs.
So at least for the Eclipse, it's the Intel component that offsets the lack of Tactical stations, not the extra T6 station.
They're kind of neat, but my JHDC is considerably better than either of those. :cool:
If someone mentioned it already, I apologize in advance for the repetition, but upgrade tokens are only 500 zen each when you buy the 4-pack. This put the upgrade at the same cost as a fleet module; now, if they let us buy a ship (account-wide) already upgraded with such a token, using a fleet module, then it's quite reasonable. I only bought upgrade tokens so I could make the most of T5 fleet ships...
Expendables Fleet: Andrew - Bajoran Fed Engineer Ken'taura - Rom/Fed Scientist Gwyllim - Human Fed Delta Tac Savik - Vulcan Fed Temporal Sci Dahar Masters Fleet: Alphal'Fa - Alien KDF Engineer Qun'pau - Rom/KDF Engineer D'nesh - Orion KDF Scientist Ghen'khan - Liberated KDF Tac Welcome to StarBug Online - to boldly Bug where no bug has been before!
STO player since November 2013
Is 500 if you buy a pack and you can buy with ec from exchange.
Beside even as a free player if you bothered to get event ships (long events ones) you get upgrade for free.
t5 ship plus "Oh it's only 500 if you buy 4" token pack 4500 Zen.
Is it worth it? Gee let me think about that for a minute.
For me buying the ody pack then I could factor in the savings I made per ship yet my point stands, it is actually cheaper to buy a new tier 6 ship than it would be to buy a t5 plus upgrade.
Meaning the only people having to cough out more money are the people who already have, so who in their right mind would pay more for less here? unless of course it's all of us who already forked out a small fortune for end game capable crafts who are yet again being asked to fork out more.
Oh but it's only x amount of dilithium per day on 3 characters f2p and it's all free, yeah if you are getting a decent price per zen, but it is not free, one, two three or however many weeks spent grinding dilithium is not "free" it is a persons time.
This is clearly a blatant marketing ploy to make those of us who have spent money on this game pay some more, no one without a tier 5 ship already is going to buy one and a token when a tier 6 is cheaper, the only people who are going to buy upgrade tokens are those who have already forked out money for the game and are being taken advantage off with this, because getting a 2000 zen token pack is just shy of yes you guess it, a tier 6 ship, deliberately priced this way so that most folk reach the same conclusion I have and hopefully will spend more zen on the better tier 6 ship, this is what is hoped yet I can see most people not viewing it this way and viewing it as exactly what it is, a blatant attempt to get those people who have supported the game to spend more money than is necessary.
I was considering buying a tier 6 ship this week on payday yet after grinding through the new content for nothing, no new equipment or sets, nothing better and most of the rewards worse than what I already had equipped, with my only option to now grind away hours on dilithium for a CHANCE of a better weapon?! After paying as much as I have to this company and rather than even just a small thank you with regards to just one free upgrade token, I am being treated like a mug, like a rat in a cage that will keep pushing buttons just to see if I will keep at it.
Not even a one free token for people who have bought "end game" ship bundles, no thank you AT ALL to those people who have PAID and kept the company going nothing but a slap in the face.
"oh it's only 500/700 zen" let me put that into context for you because clearly either people are not spending their own money on zen or have more money than they know what to do with, do you know how much groceries I and others could buy for the price of the cheapest zen bundle? "oh it's only x amount" yeah that x amount could have bought milk, bread and other items to feed a family for a week.
No t5U is not worth it, the only people it affects are those who already have spent a lot of money that they didn't really need to but thought "yeah they have given a game and I don't mind paying my way" only for this to happen, a deliberate targeted marketting ploy on those who have already given a lot, a blatant attack on the core player base who have been funding this "f2p" game.
We can get the upgrade tokens off the exchange for free.
They've given away half a dozen Cstore ships for free to anyone willing to claim them over the past two years.
All that free stuff sure is a slap in the face all right. No thanks from the company at all. :rolleyes:
Yes and what do you think would have happened to the company if not for everyone who has spent money on "end game " ship bundles etc? Do and perhaps you would like to read all of my post? It is not "free" it is peoples time, buying zen from the store for dilithium is not "free" someone had to PURCHASE that zen, time spent collecting ec to buy tokens that someone has PAID FOR is not free.
I understand that you want to fan boy here but if you were able to take the tinted specs off for a moment and look at what is actually going on then those who have paid are being fleeced, the only option we have is to either buy an upgrade or pay more for a new ship that is only slightly better, simply to get to the place that we just were, someone who gets lucky from a lock box gets a free upgrade yet someone who bought the odyssey bundle among other things doesn't?
I would also like to add that the free ships (such as obelisk carrier) was given out to ALL players, not just paying customers, how long would this game have lasted without people actually paying money? Nothing is FREE in this game or any other, how many of these "free" as you say things would have existed if the company had folded because no one was funding it? after the failure of it's subscription based mode they had to go f2p in order to make money and they clearly are making money, by all accounts this year has been a very successful year for the financial side of the game, it's not like they are going to fold if no one buys an upgrade token.
Yet no free upgrade for those of us who have forked out, not even a "limited time" for completing a certain event/episode such as with the obelisk, nothing except a "please pay us more for something that you thought was end game and upgrade it to something that isn't quite end game.
Yes, it is a slap in the face to people who have paid far more than they clearly should have considering how their custom has been valued.
For some reason you seem to think it costing more for a lesser ship is a good deal? Or is it that someone else is buying zen for you and you do not appreciate the value of money?
The event ships got free upgrade to t5-u. If you are so tight on budget you should have got that free ships.
They give us expansions after expansions for free. Don;t you think is fair for them to make some money ?
Beside to play all the content you don;t need a t5u ship. Only if you want to do advanced .
We can get the upgrade tokens off the exchange for free.
They've given away half a dozen Cstore ships for free to anyone willing to claim them over the past two years.
All that free stuff sure is a slap in the face all right. No thanks from the company at all. :rolleyes:
As awesome as all of that is, it is for all of the players, free and paying. They did not thank those who bought all of those ships for keeping the game going up to this point. Instead they purposely devalued all of that money we spent without so much as a thank you or a token of appreciation.
Big difference, if you aren't upset by that, whatever, you don't have to be. If you don't understand how we feel, then whatever, we don't need you to.
The event ships got free upgrade to t5-u. If you are so tight on budget you should have got that free ships.
They give us expansions after expansions for free. Don;t you think is fair for them to make some money ?
Beside to play all the content you don;t need a t5u ship. Only if you want to do advanced .
Are you really asking someone who has spent several hundred British pounds on this game if they don't think the company should make money? of course they should THEY ARE, I have personally made them money! and thank for for pointing out the obvious that I never needed a t5u or t6 to do most of the new content that I have already done in the past 6 days.
But your points simply add to my own.
What reward was there from the new content for anyone other than a f2p who wasn't doing elites or getting rep rewards before the expansion? For those of us who have spent a great deal of money to get to where we were NOTHING! weapons that were no better than what I had and worse in most cases, an engine that I got rid off at level 45? the story started well and was good fun, then WHAM endless patrol missions that got boring after the first two against ships who's only challenge was staying awake long enough to burn down their excessive hit points and who's only purpose has been to make people fed up with grinding already. But I am not having a go at the expansion or the upgrade mechanism or the new tier 6 ships,
I am having a go at the way in which paying costumers are being used and have even potentially been given less than a f2p has, there is a company making money and there is a company taking advantage, the sole reason that lock box ships get a free upgrade is because of the amount of money the company makes from keys, plain and simple and the sales would drop if it was only tier 5 instead of t5u. a lot of people like me are in the same position. how many t5 ships are going to be purchased from now on considering that 500 zen more gets you a t6? not many I would bet, a free single use upgrade with a t5 bundle? that would probably entice more sales, like I have said before, 3000 zen for a t6, 3200 for a t5u, the question asked here is "is it worth it" no is the flat out answer, NO ONE is going to buy a t5 and an upgrade when a t6 is cheaper, NO ONE! this is simply to get more money out of those who have paid more in the first place, most folk with t5 are going to go right to the t6 unless they have a lot of zen sitting spare or are not interested in saving their dilithium for the extorionate amount needed to get a chance for better equipment. 50k refined dilithium for a chance at an upgrade? There are people on here spent that and it's been wasted, plenty of people complaining about that. 50k thats a weeks worth of one toons limit, that would get you roughly 300 zen, not even half way there for a t5u, does that put it into context?
A little over a week ago I was doing elite missions in the end game ship that I spent more than the price of a game on a lot more considering it was the ship bundle, now I am being asked to pay more to get to nearly the stage that I was just at, when you factor in the amount of dilithium that is needed to have a chance at upgrading weapons etc then buying zen with dilithium is not feasible, I could see the point if it was an actual upgrade and brought it into line with a t6 but it's not, it's an extra 700 zen for more hit points, still not being able to use the new officers etc, so in order to experience that, need to pay again, what is the point? all it's done has killed t5 sales?!
A toons daily limit just now gets 50 zen, give or take, personally if I wanted to grind all my toons (that I spent actual money to be able to create) I could have the upgrade in a couple of days, yet I have just been forced into a week long grind for useless rewards and the fun has been sapped right out of the game, it now takes longer to grind dilithium with the new changes, so add a lot more time onto that "grinding" is not what makes a game fun and after all that grinding, no better off than where I started, the r&d mats that are needed to upgrade equipment etc, don't come from normal mode missions, people like me are being forced into purchasing either an upgrade or a new ship, (most likely the slightly more money for a new ship the way the pricing has deliberately been done) which fair enough having to purchase a new tier 6 ship, no problem with that, having to pay over the odds for a bit more hit points on the ship I already have ad have already spent a good deal of money on as if this is somehow doing me a favour?
Do you think giving people who got lucky on a lock box or bought a ship from the exchange for in game credits after giving the company NO MONEY whatsoever, should be favoured over those who have kept the company going so that it could get to this stage? because that is exactly what you are saying, that is how things stand at the moment "The games not pay to win" no? then why do the best ships cost money?
I could see the point if the quest rewards had been a tad better, yet currently there is a vast amount of players who have spent a lot of money on this game who have now been made no different to a f2p player except we are being asked to pay yet again for something that we already have, take the obelisk carrier, has more hp and crew than the ody I paid for and was given out free, the game is now flooded with purple xii phasers and the only option for people like me, is to pay up yet again and a lot of us will.
To me though, a limited time upgrade token for one toon that let people test out the t5u ships to be able to decide if they wanted to upgrade any more or not would not have broken the bank, it would have most likely increased sales of the tokens because people would have seen the advantage of having it, yet players like me have been given nothing from this expansion (as of yet) perhaps this will change in the future, yet currently, this is a simple marketing ploy that targets those who have already paid a lot.
It is the discrepancy with how they have added this that I have issues with, a deliberate targeting of a section of paying customers who are now no better off than f2p who have never paid a penny and all we are left with is a thankless grind or forking out yet again.
I purchased the ody bundle, have other c store ships, accounts upgrades etc, Would one free token that only worked on one toon, (less than many players have been given already), have broken any ones bank? certain not, would it have encouraged players to buy more? yes, probably it would have led a lot more people to fork out the extra for a tier 6.
Those of us who have spent a lot of money on this game are now no better than a complete f2p player, unless we again pay more money, what part of that are people not grasping? would people be saying the same if next week a tier 6 ship gets given out free after they have just spent money on one? That's what you are vouching for if people would care to realise, loads of paying customers are no more advanced than f2p and in some cases worse off, does that make sense to anyone?
I've had my bundle for a while, I can only imagine that people who just bought the bundles/ships before the expansion announcement are feeling by it, again the deliberate way in which the announcement was held back is a targeted marketing ploy, they've know about these changes for a lot longer than we have and yet have milked t5 ships all the while, I would bet money on people having bought them a couple of days before realising that they would be useless as end game ships.
A free first week token for a level 57 ish quest meaning that it was a limited thing, would have gone a long way, or bring the upgrade price down so that it's cheaper to buy a t5u than a t6 ship?
As it stands in the pursuit of making more money they have forgotten the most important part about making money, who pays the money and why they pay it.
Comments
the list of what is and isn't upgradeable has been up for some time
Let us explore it... together. Each man hides a secret pain. It must be exposed and reckoned with. It must be dragged from the darkness and forced into the light. Share your pain. Share your pain with me... and gain strength from the sharing.
that doesn't mean that the list is a good idea. all mirror ships are not upgradable and in most of my toons that's half the fleet.
I did not mention anything about the quality of ships to upgrade. I merely stated that the list was up for a while when the poster mentioned that they just found out his ships couldn't be upgraded.
Let us explore it... together. Each man hides a secret pain. It must be exposed and reckoned with. It must be dragged from the darkness and forced into the light. Share your pain. Share your pain with me... and gain strength from the sharing.
I own the Oddey Pack, Karfi, MvAE, Atrox from the Store.
I have bought fleet modules from the exchange, at 8 million a pop, they are so easy to afford.
I will be upgrading all my ships to T5-U with buying the upgrades from the exchange which are hovering around 10 mil now, peanuts for the upgrade.
EC flows like water in this game, and pretty much all the things you want are tradeable for EC. So what is the cost exactly for those who do not want to open the wallet up.
If you are struggling with getting EC, I suggest learning the concept of buy low, sell high! With a little seed money (7 Days of Tour the Galaxy on 1 Toon) and this concept, I can turn a few million into 100 million in less than two weeks, 30 minutes a day on a single trading Toon.
So all the upgrades for my ships, 4/5 Days of EC building, peanuts!
The awesome thing about the exchange, the more you study it, the better you become at spotting trends, items of value and sure bets.
There are no T6 ships that match the ships I fly with play-style, and I like my ships. I do not see the point of changing when the upgrade allows the ships I do fly to be 90% as effective if not more than a T6 ship.
One day I may indeed see a T6 I want, and I will get it through the Store for Zen, till then, thanks Cryptic for giving me the chance of upgrading my older hulls to advance with the level cap increase.
Lastly, I do not LockBox, not ever, and will not buy a LockBox ship from the exchange.
And I have a superb combo ground/space trait called patience!
I'm ... almost happy to hear that ... but not for the reason you might think .
Since you're one of the more active posters who belongs in the group of posters here who quite enjoy hackling , talking down at and making fun of other posters for your own amusements (posters who may not have words like "auspice" in their day to day vocabulary) , but posters who all the same attempt to convey the sum of your simple sentence above ... -- well , I am almost happy that now you know how they felt like .
But then there you go, and you by yourself remove my chance at happiness ... -- that very chance that by this very event , something in you might have grown and evolved .
Or in short , that you've learned something .
Sadly , by your own words , that does not sound like it ...
Objective and unbiased ... uhumm ... .
Except that long a$$ post of yours reeks of nothing of the two terms above .
" .... somebody call the DOOOOMMMM squad ... , we have a live one over here ... "
Sounds familiar ?
Now man up and QQ about something that's actually important and game breaking ... like Janeway / Tuvok's coffee cup having no handle ... , or ... cats ...
Let us explore it... together. Each man hides a secret pain. It must be exposed and reckoned with. It must be dragged from the darkness and forced into the light. Share your pain. Share your pain with me... and gain strength from the sharing.
They made a business decision without knowing their customers.
People will always buy new ships i for one have a alt who is going to get the Guardian when i can afford it.
If they had given a full tier 6 without intel slots and consoles and all the extras it wouldn't be much of a problem, they need to realize that some may be attached to certain ships but other will always buy new ones.
Forcing people to upgrade rather than giving them the choice is a bad business decision, one that will in the end byte them in the TRIBBLE if they keep up with it.
"It appears we have lost our sex appeal, captain."- Tuvok
All they do is sell powercreep. They probably thought everybody would want T6, and they would do a favor by selling half an upgrade for cheap.
im complaining, yes, because i dont see a fix patern.
Honestly, I think Cryptic giving the Lockbox/Lobi/Event ships free upgrades is a godsend. Lockbox and Lobi ships are easily about $200 spent. An event ship is usually 25 days of events. People would throw even bigger fits if they had to spend another dime on prizes ships like that.
Now that I know I'll have to re-buy the ships each year I'm going to have to be absolutely floored by the look of a ship to buy one.
Buy a T6 ship now for $30 then pay another $7 for it each year? I don't think so.
While I may not agree with what you have to say, I will fight to the death your right to say it.
This is Cryptic, what is there to expect?
That's one way of circumventing a longer and more precise answer .
I just have to wonder how long your emotional memory is towards such disappointments , like the one that you've had ... , as per your example TOR was released quite a while back ... .
See , I'm not worried that your current disappointment will fade away with time .
Nor am I worried too much that you may join the ranks of the "haters" to whom disappointment with Cryptic feels like a known and comfortable quantity ... like worn leather .
The only thing that concerns me is this statement :
As "objective and unbiased" attitudes are difficult at the best of times ... and having / talking about a disappointment (that matches a disappointment with TOR from years gone by) and with the same breath talking about "objective and unbiased" is the kind of deception that I fear the most .
Self deception .
... so yeah ... , cats ... I think they're awesome ...
Now let's just hope that when T6 Fleet ships come about , you won't have to pay for your T5-U ships once again to get them to T6 Fleet level ... .
All of the ships I play with were free upgrades so it seems a fair price to me
have they said this will be the case?
If so then i may actually rethink about buying it.
"It appears we have lost our sex appeal, captain."- Tuvok
WOW
What a difference it made, even at level 50.
Hull went from 52427 to 64346, thats 12k
Shields from 12589 to 13978
Even my Elite Fer,Jai frigates go up in hull from 31k to 33k in an advanced que
(lvl 60)
The 4 starship mastery unlocks are
1 40.9% hanger pets recharge time reduction and 50% rank up for pets, this with the 100% rankup starship trait, I am getting 150% pet rank up
2 10% Hull - that will place the ship at 70K hull
3) 10% Damage - that will add another 2K damage to the Karfi
4) 10% Shield Hitpoints - will take shields to over 15k
My Frigates dealt tons of damage in Kang Que advanced, they can pop nanites on their own in no time, finally feels like they are doing serious damage. Plus they are ranking so quick they do not die and seem to have learnt to get away from warp core breaches.
And all of this at level 50 without any of the 4 unlocks done.
Bar the extra Boff ability and Intelligence officer abilities which the T6 Offer (Which are different, not more potent in my opinion, they have uses, but then most Boff abilities have uses. Its a matter of choice and play-style) I do not see the T6 as being that more powerful.
With teh 11th console I placed in a fleet neutronium with +20 damage resist, all defence resists are now over 37%
But I could have used that slot for one of the many awesome consoles I have for an extra clicky
I will test it with the Phase shift console, or maybe the Varanus repair console, or Induction kit.
Overall, T5-U is competitive, without a doubt and at 9 Million for the console yesterday, its an absolute bargain.
I can keep my Karfi in the battle for a good while longer indeed
the stipend will cover 500 of that, i can find another 200 within 2 days without much issue if i work at it. i intend to not head to dq until on my excelsior on my main has reached t5u first.
Been around since Dec 2010 on STO and bought LTS in Apr 2013 for STO.
They're not, really. With T5's and 12 abilities, we've already got solid builds. An extra ability slot for the T6s isn't going to change the builds much. (For example, a T6 version of my JHDC would mean I pick up TSS, or something redundant.) The Intel ships basically add an Intel ability on top of that, or we sacrifice something from the 12-ability builds to get two.
I hit T5 in a Phantom and an Eclipse. In the Phantom, that basically means I could carry two copies of EMP probes or Override Subsystem Safety, and still be a FAW beamscort. In the Eclipse, I could use two copies of Surgical Strike (in the Engineering/Intel station) and use the 4 Tactical slots for two TT1s and two APBs.
So at least for the Eclipse, it's the Intel component that offsets the lack of Tactical stations, not the extra T6 station.
They're kind of neat, but my JHDC is considerably better than either of those. :cool:
Savik - Vulcan Fed Temporal Sci
Dahar Masters Fleet: Alphal'Fa - Alien KDF Engineer Qun'pau - Rom/KDF Engineer D'nesh - Orion KDF Scientist Ghen'khan - Liberated KDF Tac
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STO player since November 2013
Beside even as a free player if you bothered to get event ships (long events ones) you get upgrade for free.
t5 ship 2500, with upgrade token 3200
t5 ship plus "Oh it's only 500 if you buy 4" token pack 4500 Zen.
Is it worth it? Gee let me think about that for a minute.
For me buying the ody pack then I could factor in the savings I made per ship yet my point stands, it is actually cheaper to buy a new tier 6 ship than it would be to buy a t5 plus upgrade.
Meaning the only people having to cough out more money are the people who already have, so who in their right mind would pay more for less here? unless of course it's all of us who already forked out a small fortune for end game capable crafts who are yet again being asked to fork out more.
Oh but it's only x amount of dilithium per day on 3 characters f2p and it's all free, yeah if you are getting a decent price per zen, but it is not free, one, two three or however many weeks spent grinding dilithium is not "free" it is a persons time.
This is clearly a blatant marketing ploy to make those of us who have spent money on this game pay some more, no one without a tier 5 ship already is going to buy one and a token when a tier 6 is cheaper, the only people who are going to buy upgrade tokens are those who have already forked out money for the game and are being taken advantage off with this, because getting a 2000 zen token pack is just shy of yes you guess it, a tier 6 ship, deliberately priced this way so that most folk reach the same conclusion I have and hopefully will spend more zen on the better tier 6 ship, this is what is hoped yet I can see most people not viewing it this way and viewing it as exactly what it is, a blatant attempt to get those people who have supported the game to spend more money than is necessary.
I was considering buying a tier 6 ship this week on payday yet after grinding through the new content for nothing, no new equipment or sets, nothing better and most of the rewards worse than what I already had equipped, with my only option to now grind away hours on dilithium for a CHANCE of a better weapon?! After paying as much as I have to this company and rather than even just a small thank you with regards to just one free upgrade token, I am being treated like a mug, like a rat in a cage that will keep pushing buttons just to see if I will keep at it.
Not even a one free token for people who have bought "end game" ship bundles, no thank you AT ALL to those people who have PAID and kept the company going nothing but a slap in the face.
"oh it's only 500/700 zen" let me put that into context for you because clearly either people are not spending their own money on zen or have more money than they know what to do with, do you know how much groceries I and others could buy for the price of the cheapest zen bundle? "oh it's only x amount" yeah that x amount could have bought milk, bread and other items to feed a family for a week.
No t5U is not worth it, the only people it affects are those who already have spent a lot of money that they didn't really need to but thought "yeah they have given a game and I don't mind paying my way" only for this to happen, a deliberate targeted marketting ploy on those who have already given a lot, a blatant attack on the core player base who have been funding this "f2p" game.
Yes and what do you think would have happened to the company if not for everyone who has spent money on "end game " ship bundles etc? Do and perhaps you would like to read all of my post? It is not "free" it is peoples time, buying zen from the store for dilithium is not "free" someone had to PURCHASE that zen, time spent collecting ec to buy tokens that someone has PAID FOR is not free.
I understand that you want to fan boy here but if you were able to take the tinted specs off for a moment and look at what is actually going on then those who have paid are being fleeced, the only option we have is to either buy an upgrade or pay more for a new ship that is only slightly better, simply to get to the place that we just were, someone who gets lucky from a lock box gets a free upgrade yet someone who bought the odyssey bundle among other things doesn't?
I would also like to add that the free ships (such as obelisk carrier) was given out to ALL players, not just paying customers, how long would this game have lasted without people actually paying money? Nothing is FREE in this game or any other, how many of these "free" as you say things would have existed if the company had folded because no one was funding it? after the failure of it's subscription based mode they had to go f2p in order to make money and they clearly are making money, by all accounts this year has been a very successful year for the financial side of the game, it's not like they are going to fold if no one buys an upgrade token.
Yet no free upgrade for those of us who have forked out, not even a "limited time" for completing a certain event/episode such as with the obelisk, nothing except a "please pay us more for something that you thought was end game and upgrade it to something that isn't quite end game.
Yes, it is a slap in the face to people who have paid far more than they clearly should have considering how their custom has been valued.
For some reason you seem to think it costing more for a lesser ship is a good deal? Or is it that someone else is buying zen for you and you do not appreciate the value of money?
The event ships got free upgrade to t5-u. If you are so tight on budget you should have got that free ships.
They give us expansions after expansions for free. Don;t you think is fair for them to make some money ?
Beside to play all the content you don;t need a t5u ship. Only if you want to do advanced .
As awesome as all of that is, it is for all of the players, free and paying. They did not thank those who bought all of those ships for keeping the game going up to this point. Instead they purposely devalued all of that money we spent without so much as a thank you or a token of appreciation.
Big difference, if you aren't upset by that, whatever, you don't have to be. If you don't understand how we feel, then whatever, we don't need you to.
Are you really asking someone who has spent several hundred British pounds on this game if they don't think the company should make money? of course they should THEY ARE, I have personally made them money! and thank for for pointing out the obvious that I never needed a t5u or t6 to do most of the new content that I have already done in the past 6 days.
But your points simply add to my own.
What reward was there from the new content for anyone other than a f2p who wasn't doing elites or getting rep rewards before the expansion? For those of us who have spent a great deal of money to get to where we were NOTHING! weapons that were no better than what I had and worse in most cases, an engine that I got rid off at level 45? the story started well and was good fun, then WHAM endless patrol missions that got boring after the first two against ships who's only challenge was staying awake long enough to burn down their excessive hit points and who's only purpose has been to make people fed up with grinding already. But I am not having a go at the expansion or the upgrade mechanism or the new tier 6 ships,
I am having a go at the way in which paying costumers are being used and have even potentially been given less than a f2p has, there is a company making money and there is a company taking advantage, the sole reason that lock box ships get a free upgrade is because of the amount of money the company makes from keys, plain and simple and the sales would drop if it was only tier 5 instead of t5u. a lot of people like me are in the same position. how many t5 ships are going to be purchased from now on considering that 500 zen more gets you a t6? not many I would bet, a free single use upgrade with a t5 bundle? that would probably entice more sales, like I have said before, 3000 zen for a t6, 3200 for a t5u, the question asked here is "is it worth it" no is the flat out answer, NO ONE is going to buy a t5 and an upgrade when a t6 is cheaper, NO ONE! this is simply to get more money out of those who have paid more in the first place, most folk with t5 are going to go right to the t6 unless they have a lot of zen sitting spare or are not interested in saving their dilithium for the extorionate amount needed to get a chance for better equipment. 50k refined dilithium for a chance at an upgrade? There are people on here spent that and it's been wasted, plenty of people complaining about that. 50k thats a weeks worth of one toons limit, that would get you roughly 300 zen, not even half way there for a t5u, does that put it into context?
A little over a week ago I was doing elite missions in the end game ship that I spent more than the price of a game on a lot more considering it was the ship bundle, now I am being asked to pay more to get to nearly the stage that I was just at, when you factor in the amount of dilithium that is needed to have a chance at upgrading weapons etc then buying zen with dilithium is not feasible, I could see the point if it was an actual upgrade and brought it into line with a t6 but it's not, it's an extra 700 zen for more hit points, still not being able to use the new officers etc, so in order to experience that, need to pay again, what is the point? all it's done has killed t5 sales?!
A toons daily limit just now gets 50 zen, give or take, personally if I wanted to grind all my toons (that I spent actual money to be able to create) I could have the upgrade in a couple of days, yet I have just been forced into a week long grind for useless rewards and the fun has been sapped right out of the game, it now takes longer to grind dilithium with the new changes, so add a lot more time onto that "grinding" is not what makes a game fun and after all that grinding, no better off than where I started, the r&d mats that are needed to upgrade equipment etc, don't come from normal mode missions, people like me are being forced into purchasing either an upgrade or a new ship, (most likely the slightly more money for a new ship the way the pricing has deliberately been done) which fair enough having to purchase a new tier 6 ship, no problem with that, having to pay over the odds for a bit more hit points on the ship I already have ad have already spent a good deal of money on as if this is somehow doing me a favour?
Do you think giving people who got lucky on a lock box or bought a ship from the exchange for in game credits after giving the company NO MONEY whatsoever, should be favoured over those who have kept the company going so that it could get to this stage? because that is exactly what you are saying, that is how things stand at the moment "The games not pay to win" no? then why do the best ships cost money?
I could see the point if the quest rewards had been a tad better, yet currently there is a vast amount of players who have spent a lot of money on this game who have now been made no different to a f2p player except we are being asked to pay yet again for something that we already have, take the obelisk carrier, has more hp and crew than the ody I paid for and was given out free, the game is now flooded with purple xii phasers and the only option for people like me, is to pay up yet again and a lot of us will.
To me though, a limited time upgrade token for one toon that let people test out the t5u ships to be able to decide if they wanted to upgrade any more or not would not have broken the bank, it would have most likely increased sales of the tokens because people would have seen the advantage of having it, yet players like me have been given nothing from this expansion (as of yet) perhaps this will change in the future, yet currently, this is a simple marketing ploy that targets those who have already paid a lot.
It is the discrepancy with how they have added this that I have issues with, a deliberate targeting of a section of paying customers who are now no better off than f2p who have never paid a penny and all we are left with is a thankless grind or forking out yet again.
I purchased the ody bundle, have other c store ships, accounts upgrades etc, Would one free token that only worked on one toon, (less than many players have been given already), have broken any ones bank? certain not, would it have encouraged players to buy more? yes, probably it would have led a lot more people to fork out the extra for a tier 6.
Those of us who have spent a lot of money on this game are now no better than a complete f2p player, unless we again pay more money, what part of that are people not grasping? would people be saying the same if next week a tier 6 ship gets given out free after they have just spent money on one? That's what you are vouching for if people would care to realise, loads of paying customers are no more advanced than f2p and in some cases worse off, does that make sense to anyone?
I've had my bundle for a while, I can only imagine that people who just bought the bundles/ships before the expansion announcement are feeling by it, again the deliberate way in which the announcement was held back is a targeted marketing ploy, they've know about these changes for a lot longer than we have and yet have milked t5 ships all the while, I would bet money on people having bought them a couple of days before realising that they would be useless as end game ships.
A free first week token for a level 57 ish quest meaning that it was a limited thing, would have gone a long way, or bring the upgrade price down so that it's cheaper to buy a t5u than a t6 ship?
As it stands in the pursuit of making more money they have forgotten the most important part about making money, who pays the money and why they pay it.