I agree with your post. I used the 3 tokens that came with the Delta Rising pack, I will keep the rest of my ships T5, I like uphill battles.
same here.
also there are a lot complaining but more buying the tokens, regardless of this debate if cryptic had sold zero tokens they might have reconsidered their policy but while they sell they will remain the price they are.
in 6 months or so when hardly any sell any more they might do a sale or I may be able to pick some up on the exchange dirt cheap.
if that happens I might upgrade a few more T5 ships but until then I am happy to use my T6 ships and T5U free upgraded ones.
When I think about everything we've been through together,
maybe it's not the destination that matters, maybe it's the journey,
and if that journey takes a little longer,
so we can do something we all believe in,
I can't think of any place I'd rather be or any people I'd rather be with.
You were suckered by a common marketing tactic. 700 became acceptable because it was not the worst case presented. It was far from the actual value of the upgrade, which should have been 250.
soo... please do explain your reasoning here... if it's what I think it is then... my response is lol no. :P
700 for a single token is reasonable, and (as already noted) the four pack basically offers four tokens at 500 zen each. (...)
I concur with reyan01. I'm not happy with the costs, esp., in light of the changes to the STFs/PUGs. But I'm satisfied my T5 ships can still be played as I progress towards Level 60. (For how long, that remains to be seen...)
I really feel for many of the F2P players, though.
When DR released on Oct. 14 into the Holodeck server, I decided to wait (based on past releases, between server issues/likely problems and hot fixes/patching). During that time, I mapped out what ships I would be upgrading from T5 to T5-U. I also made choices about updating some ships to Fleet ships (which would benefit from the T5-U upgrades, too).
Again, I REALLY feel for many of the F2P players. As an LTS player/customer who occasionally buys real Zen for C-Store purchases, the upgrades on some of my favorite ships weren't cheap...
For one toon: Initial investment: C-Store purchase: Constellation (T3 Heavy Cruiser Refit w Picard Maneuver console; skin available again for T5 Heavy Cruiser Retrofit) = 1000 Zen (account wide unlock)
Added costs: C-Store purchase: Fleet upgrade = 4 Fleet modules = 2000 Zen (The Constellation (T5 Heavy Cruiser Retrofit) requires 4 tokens, even if you already own the ship.) C-Store purchase: T5-U upgrade token (having purchased the 4-pack of upgrades) = 500 Zen (account wide unlock)
Total cost for Constellation (Fleet T5-U) on one toon: 3500 Zen
I'm not buying Constellations for each of my toons. That's an added 2000 Zen* per toon for each Fleet ship purchase.
*Based on one-time 1000 Zen purchase of Constellation (Heavy Cruiser Refit) and 500 for T5-U token (when bought with the 4-pack bundle).
But it really, really adds up fast.
Mind you, some T5 to T5-U unlocks (like the Rademaker, the Vesta, etc.) are unlock-once, unlocked across all instances -- with no Fleet version (yet). No additional costs there.
So, to the OP's point, yes: I'm happy because I'm paying 500 Zen/each upgrade BECAUSE of the 4-pack C-Store item (2000 Zen investment).
At 700 Zen, I would not be so happy. And would have likely abandoned more T5 to T5-U upgrades.
(Yes, I own the DR Operations Pack. I have all of the new T6 ships. But I enjoy many of the older retrofit ships too much to want to abandon them, including that ol' rust bucket, the Constellation class; Nova/Rhode Island class; Excelsior class; Mogh class; Ar'kif class, etc.)
I wouldn't say I'm "happy", but neither am I "unhappy" or even "satisfied" with the cost, but rather I'm simply able to deal with it.
My big gripe is with the 3-pack ships, specifically, the Flagship classes. IMO, it should only take ONE token to upgrade all 3 ships in a 3-pack (even if they sold it as a single token for 1000 zen). In addition, I feel like the Flagship classes (Oddy, Bort, Scim) should be able to upgrade to full T6, just without the Intel hybrid seat.
All that said, I did buy a 4-pack of the upgrade tokens for my main toons/ships.
My big gripe is with the 3-pack ships, specifically, the Flagship classes. IMO, it should only take ONE token to upgrade all 3 ships in a 3-pack (even if they sold it as a single token for 1000 zen). In addition, I feel like the Flagship classes (Oddy, Bort, Scim) should be able to upgrade to full T6, just without the Intel hybrid seat.
I was thinking about the Flagship thing too. I think in the future they will be replaced with other Tier 6 3-packs with ships of fleet T6 grade. And they can do it without destroying the Enterprise. In Star Trek, flagship is either refitted or replaced (when destroyed or simply being obsolete). Enterprise F is too young to be destroyed by a plot guided weapon and not old enough to be replaced (Especially if you consider the T5U a refit). It can still coexist with more advanced ships while being the flagship. To put it with movie examples. In Star Trek the search for Spock the Connie Enterprise is destroyed, but it is not replaced with the superior Excelsior, Enterprise A is still a Connie.
Happy, no. When I bought the Odyssey and Vesta packs for 5000 Zen each, I did so thinking I wasn't going to have to spend any more Zen on them . When all is said and done, I'll have spent 11,400 Zen, and they still won't be T6.
Initial investment: C-Store purchase: Constellation (T3 Heavy Cruiser Refit w Picard Maneuver console; skin available again for T5 Heavy Cruiser Retrofit) = 1000 Zen
Added costs: C-Store purchase: Fleet upgrade = 4 Fleet modules = 2000 Zen (The Constellation (T5 Heavy Cruiser Retrofit) requires 4 tokens, even if you already own the ship.) C-Store purchase: T5-U upgrade token (having purchased the 4-pack of upgrades) = 500 Zen
Total cost for Constellation (Fleet T5-U): 3500 Zen
I'm not buying Constellations for each of my toons. That's an added 2500 Zen* per toon to make it Fleet T5-U.
*Based on one-time 1000 Zen purchase of Constellation (Heavy Cruiser Refit).
Hang on. The T5-U upgrade is per-account, no? I'll have to check on that.
I just have to ask, if Cryptic is this amoral money grubbing monster who's greed knows no bounds, what does that make the developers of the scores of other MMOs that charge their players $20-$30 for mounts/classes/adventure zones/etc. without any means to earn cash shop currency in game?
I just have to ask, if Cryptic is this amoral money grubbing monster who's greed knows no bounds, what does that make the developers of the scores of other MMOs that charge their players $20-$30 for mounts/classes/adventure zones/etc. without any means to earn cash shop currency in game?
Or the games (coughAeriacough) where they have "bonus" events where you get extra - sometimes exclusive - cash shop stuff for spending enough. With milestones up to $1000+. In a month. :eek:
(Which reminds me of another wonderful f2p thing: temporary items. "You want more inventory space? Just spend $10 on this extra backpack... good for 30 days! What, you wanted a permanent one? Oh, that's a rare drop in our $5 lockboxes.")
Some of the ships I purchased were under the auspice they were the best of the best. The best help someone could get.
These ships were gained through cash transactions, not through time spent in-game (although my Odyssey 3-pack was purchased with zen paid for in dilithium).
I did not 'quest' for my top tier ships. I did not get a big sense of achievement out of acquiring them. They were virtual merchandise. That was it. When it comes to MMO's, cash shop items are weighted in a far different way than items achieved through in-game means. I do not mind having to be railroaded into upgrading items achieved in game, but railroaded into upgrading items I bought in the cash shop previously is an entirely different matter. One I think is deplorable.
I did not like the idea of fleet ships, either. But I got over it when they were implemented. I told myself that Fleet ships would be it. That they would not force me to pay more money for the same ship.
No, I was wrong there too.
I purchased a T5-U for my Tactical Odyssey, and just to try things out... I went with the Federation Fleet Alert. I tried some of the other missions out too. And the fact my Odyssey actually appears to be performing worse than before DR has left the 700 zen price tag a sour taste in my mouth.
I have not had buyer's remorse in a video game since I paid $80 for TOR. But Delta Rising left that feeling with me again.
I am unhappy with it all.
I am unhappy with the communication delivered in the form of dev blogs, when I can actually find out more from a non-PWE website like Reddit on tangible information that will either encourage me or discourage me to make a Zen purchase.
I am unhappy with the convoluted and confusing mess which was the difference between T5U and T6. I am unhappy with the blatantly misleading notation on the Romulan Doff promo that the JHAS would be given T6 'capabilities' come Delta Rising in an attempt to get people to participate in the promo.
I am unhappy that despite good intentions, at PWE it came off as an incredibly shady and underhanded marketing tactic. I expect more out of STO's publisher.
But most importantly, I am unhappy that 'normal' things I am supposed to be able to faceroll and test out my ship and builds on is now incredibly difficult (or at least long-winded) due to enemy HP levels.
It gives me the false impression my T5-U ship not only seems necessary to do Delta Rising content (when assured in dev communication it wouldn't be necessary), but that it does not seem that even T5-U ships are enough for me to do content I used to be able to mindlessly blast away at before.
While possibly unintentional (and to Cryptic's credit Geko has addressed that it seems Normal needs to be scaled back a bit), it disappoints me greatly that this is Delta Rising's launch.
Cryptic painted themselves into this corner by making ships cash shop items. But I simply do not like having to fork over 700 zen for each ship I want to barely be viable for Normal content.
I recognize their need to make money. But I do not like being put in that position, especially when I made the purchase to begin with under the auspice it was the best help I could get and would need nothing further.
I will still play STO and remain objective and unbiased in my criticisms of both the dev team and the playerbase, but Delta Rising has not given me any good feelings outside of the enjoyable mission and story content.
And most certainly not the fiasco which was T5-U and T6 ships, which I was hoping they would correct. But it would appear they chose not to.
There were other choices. Other, less convoluted choices. They did not pursue any of them.
Instead, they came up with this T5-U system to go with the T6 system. A system that is by many accounts incredibly confusing and needlessly complicated. They could have just done away with T5-U entirely and just made these ships T6.
Instead, they shot themselves in the foot by this needlessly complicated explanation. While I eventually understood it, I do not expect the lowest common denominator of STO to understand.
They could have offered upgrade tokens for a class of ships instead of singular ships. They didn't.
They could have offered some other methods of upgrading your ship that did not involve the cash shop, and they could have done it in such a way where 1 additional console slot vs. an additional bridge officer ability and ship trait was not horribly weighted against one another.
They could have offered ship traits for sale in the C-store -- I may have actually paid for that, too. They could have offered ship traits in a time gated fashion. They could have offered to put intelligence officers in universal bridge officer seating for regular ships. They did not.
They could have made ship traits extremely difficult to attain in game but easily attained via C-store. They could have put an emphasis on pay4convenience, instead of a thin veil of pay2win. And I am never one to call STO pay2win.
They could have made players who are attached to their ships the opportunity to play the game to attain improved capabilities and extra perks, or the option to bypass it via a paywall. They could have sent us all on a fantastic journey that requires us to be in game to upgrade our ships, or the convenience of simply paying for it.
But given the option they chose to pursue, I am unhappy.
I think it all comes down to how a person views the T5U.
If you look at T5U as a money grubbing action the no price will be sufficient.
If you look at T5U as a Cryptic allowing ships we've had for a while to be used in the update then 700z is a fair price.
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What other choice did they have? This isn't City of Heroes where they could make money selling new costumes or power sets.
Ships are basically the only item that they could sell, especially with CBS requiring their approval be stamped on everything.
The customers are primarily Westerners who aren't overly fond of Eastern grindfests and loathe the types of consumable micro-transactions that nickle and dime customers in those F2P games.
they could make new varients. the Sovie has 5 model variants to her. the Avenger has 1.
or what some of my fleet suggested some time ago. you buy a hull say cruiser hull and it has all the basic traits the cruiser has but you can put any cruiser model with it. Imagine the interesting kit bashes you could see. Customization was at the core of what this game was promoted as but has gone away from.
they could make new varients. the Sovie has 5 model variants to her. the Avenger has 1.
or what some of my fleet suggested some time ago. you buy a hull say cruiser hull and it has all the basic traits the cruiser has but you can put any cruiser model with it. Imagine the interesting kit bashes you could see. Customization was at the core of what this game was promoted as but has gone away from.
Yeah it's a real shame, tier 6 is going to kill customization. I got a good laugh at people thinking the extra skins and nacelles on the intel ships were a big deal.
I wish they had done ships differently myself. Personally I've disliked the whole ship tier system from the get go.
I wish they sold universal ship hulls whose basic stats improved as you leveled. That way a player could create a character and start playing from scratch in the ship he liked instead of having to wade thru ships he doesn't like 'til he gets high enough to use the one he wants or gets forced to leave the ship he likes behind because it's too low a tier to be effective at endgame.
So I empathize with how you feel.
Marketing at PWE/Cryptic have proven they are masters at wordsmithing. That isn't a compliment, either.
They can't use lay terms or use straight talk to describe what is coming. While I appreciate any kind of communication, the quality of communication has been a constant headache.
If they have to use weasel words such as "The JHAS will receive T6 capabilities when Delta Rising launches!" in their promotional material, it really just encourages distrust with Perfect World. They weren't wrong, but the fact they have to word it in such a way comes off as shady.
Customers don't care about technicalities like that. Those technicalities are there to cover PWE/Cryptic's aft, not for the benefit of the customer. And if they have to word things in such a way as to cover their own TRIBBLE, then they shouldn't be surprised when the players become distrustful of what they say.
If their carefully worded communication like that is not for the benefit of the customer, then it portrays them in a potentially negative light.
No i am not happy at all it is utterly ripoff, spending on ship pack 5000zen then upgrading it each for 700 is just nonsense.
And when you upgrade it, still you don't have tier V trait for your ship.
The upgrade token should be 200 zen because many players including me invested lot of time and money to get T5 ships and now we must spend fortune to get them be competitive and flying again.
For my stand a point all T5 ships should be freely upgradable to T5U like the box ships.
But hey Cryptic needs a fresh dose of milk from cow every day even if the cow had enough they must milk her dry.
The Greediness has now a new level.
I have enough Zen to just about afford a single FSM and a token, which is enough to fully upgrade the ship I have in mind.
For now I'm not, still levelling the captain who will fly this ship. In the meantime if any sale for FSM's or tokens come up I'll grab them then.
I'm not that great with earning lots of EC, and I'll need what I have to grab gear for the ship. It's certainly handy that MK XII gear is much cheaper than it used to be!
I was expecting 200-300, 500 at most. 700 is a ripoff.
Remember that in many cases, we've already paid for said ships. We now have to do so again.
Thing is, Cryptic is delivering the same amount of content for 3000zen that they used to for 2500 or even 2000, and old stuff is getting a 700zen fine because it's not new stuff. It's getting out of hand and I for one, will no longer be buying stuff.
I'm guessing you hadn't followed any of the last months' discussion of the topic then, since the fact that it was going to be at least 500 min has been known for a long time.
Thing is, Cryptic is delivering the same amount of content for 3000zen that they used to for 2500 or even 2000, and old stuff is getting a 700zen fine because it's not new stuff.
You see it as a "fine". I see it as a chance to keep playing a ship you like a bit longer.
Instead of this "fine", would you have preferred that there be no upgrade option, and just "hey, buy a T6 ship"?
Either way, this was an MMO level cap increase - old equipment was destined to be just that: old. /shrug
What I don't get is, you were already happy to pay for FSMs to upgrade the ship once. Now there is a new, cheaper, bigger upgrade, and you're whimpering about having to pay for one more FSM-with-a-different-name.
These things can be had on the exchange for Gods sake.
What dont you get? I have 20-something 10-console T5 ships. They are all obsolete in PVP that was working fine a month ago. They are not particularly good for current advanced PVE difficulty either. The ships I was using to grind STFs and fleet alert last month now need an upgrade to be used in the same STFs this week. I have to buy 20-something upgrades to run the same gear through the same content, and you dont get it?
20 ships for 500 zen is 10000 zen, $100 worth of zen to use the same ships in the same content and you dont get it? I dont even know current dil exchange but even if its just 150 then that is 1,500,000 dilithium. Oh they are on the exchange for 10m so that is only ... 200 million EC to get back to even? LOL
And even if you upgrade its money gone to waste because all future development is T6 and upgraded T5-U will be nothing but fancy storage ships with nonrecoverable upgrades. Same goes for fleet T5 btw. Anybody who puts fleet modules on a T5 at this point is making a sacrificial offering of burnt money to Geko.
That's kind of what I wanted since launch. But CBS is really anal retentive about not allowing kit bashing.
but they already have with the intial ships. again the sovie has 5 models in totoal. and you can mix and match them. that is kitbashing. so why not the full thing. Heck the Guardians is a kitbash of Ambassador and Galaxy.
I have enough Zen to just about afford a single FSM and a token, which is enough to fully upgrade the ship I have in mind.
For now I'm not, still levelling the captain who will fly this ship. In the meantime if any sale for FSM's or tokens come up I'll grab them then.
I'm not that great with earning lots of EC, and I'll need what I have to grab gear for the ship. It's certainly handy that MK XII gear is much cheaper than it used to be!
so you are okay to pay 700 zen more then a T6 ship on a ship that after payment will not match the T6 ship?
The upgrade is intentionally less than T6, will be even less after Fleet T6 are released.
This upgrade scheme cost Cryptic very little, it's essentially a copy/paste/revision job with no new visual additions -- just numbers in the game's database.
At maximum it should have been $2.50 to upgrade
This reflects my opinion and i didn't even have to read beyond the first page to find it.
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so you are okay to pay 700 zen more then a T6 ship on a ship that after payment will not match the T6 ship?
Yup. The ship I plan to upgrade was free, so I only need to 'buy' a single FSM and a token - both of which came from converting Dil to Zen.
So I've personally not had to spend a penny. I was saving the Dil for rep gear but meh, I reckon a better ship would be a wiser investment.
I do understand however that if I had already paid 2500/3000 Zen on a ship, then a further 2000 Zen on 4 FSM's...and THEN another 700 Zen for a token. Yeah I'd be miffed too.
Yup. The ship I plan to upgrade was free, so I only need to 'buy' a single FSM and a token - both of which came from converting Dil to Zen.
So I've personally not had to spend a penny. I was saving the Dil for rep gear but meh, I reckon a better ship would be a wiser investment.
I do understand however that if I had already paid 2500/3000 Zen on a ship, then a further 2000 Zen on 4 FSM's...and THEN another 700 Zen for a token. Yeah I'd be miffed too.
I'm glad I don't buy ships.
here's to add to it. Some of my ships I did pay money for, others dil grind. but after that half my fleet is useless since their mirror and don't get an upgrade. Yes lucky yiou, you fly around in one ship and that one happens to be among the freebies. congrats. But some of us likely to change it up once and awhile. The whole upgrade system was poorly done.
The upgrade is intentionally less than T6, will be even less after Fleet T6 are released.
This upgrade scheme cost Cryptic very little, it's essentially a copy/paste/revision job with no new visual additions -- just numbers in the game's database.
At maximum it should have been $2.50 to upgrade
It's not copy and paste...they actually came out and said its not.
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I would have less off a problem with the upgrade if all ships could be upgraded however since 2 of my toons are flying ships that can't be upgraded at all so it is a good thing I found that out before spending the zen on the upgade tokens.
I would have less off a problem with the upgrade if all ships could be upgraded however since 2 of my toons are flying ships that can't be upgraded at all so it is a good thing I found that out before spending the zen on the upgade tokens.
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same here.
also there are a lot complaining but more buying the tokens, regardless of this debate if cryptic had sold zero tokens they might have reconsidered their policy but while they sell they will remain the price they are.
in 6 months or so when hardly any sell any more they might do a sale or I may be able to pick some up on the exchange dirt cheap.
if that happens I might upgrade a few more T5 ships but until then I am happy to use my T6 ships and T5U free upgraded ones.
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and if that journey takes a little longer,
so we can do something we all believe in,
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I really feel for many of the F2P players, though.
When DR released on Oct. 14 into the Holodeck server, I decided to wait (based on past releases, between server issues/likely problems and hot fixes/patching). During that time, I mapped out what ships I would be upgrading from T5 to T5-U. I also made choices about updating some ships to Fleet ships (which would benefit from the T5-U upgrades, too).
Again, I REALLY feel for many of the F2P players. As an LTS player/customer who occasionally buys real Zen for C-Store purchases, the upgrades on some of my favorite ships weren't cheap...
For one toon:
Initial investment:
C-Store purchase: Constellation (T3 Heavy Cruiser Refit w Picard Maneuver console; skin available again for T5 Heavy Cruiser Retrofit) = 1000 Zen (account wide unlock)
Added costs:
C-Store purchase: Fleet upgrade = 4 Fleet modules = 2000 Zen (The Constellation (T5 Heavy Cruiser Retrofit) requires 4 tokens, even if you already own the ship.)
C-Store purchase: T5-U upgrade token (having purchased the 4-pack of upgrades) = 500 Zen (account wide unlock)
Total cost for Constellation (Fleet T5-U) on one toon: 3500 Zen
I'm not buying Constellations for each of my toons. That's an added 2000 Zen* per toon for each Fleet ship purchase.
*Based on one-time 1000 Zen purchase of Constellation (Heavy Cruiser Refit) and 500 for T5-U token (when bought with the 4-pack bundle).
But it really, really adds up fast.
Mind you, some T5 to T5-U unlocks (like the Rademaker, the Vesta, etc.) are unlock-once, unlocked across all instances -- with no Fleet version (yet). No additional costs there.
So, to the OP's point, yes: I'm happy because I'm paying 500 Zen/each upgrade BECAUSE of the 4-pack C-Store item (2000 Zen investment).
At 700 Zen, I would not be so happy. And would have likely abandoned more T5 to T5-U upgrades.
(Yes, I own the DR Operations Pack. I have all of the new T6 ships. But I enjoy many of the older retrofit ships too much to want to abandon them, including that ol' rust bucket, the Constellation class; Nova/Rhode Island class; Excelsior class; Mogh class; Ar'kif class, etc.)
My big gripe is with the 3-pack ships, specifically, the Flagship classes. IMO, it should only take ONE token to upgrade all 3 ships in a 3-pack (even if they sold it as a single token for 1000 zen). In addition, I feel like the Flagship classes (Oddy, Bort, Scim) should be able to upgrade to full T6, just without the Intel hybrid seat.
All that said, I did buy a 4-pack of the upgrade tokens for my main toons/ships.
I was thinking about the Flagship thing too. I think in the future they will be replaced with other Tier 6 3-packs with ships of fleet T6 grade. And they can do it without destroying the Enterprise. In Star Trek, flagship is either refitted or replaced (when destroyed or simply being obsolete). Enterprise F is too young to be destroyed by a plot guided weapon and not old enough to be replaced (Especially if you consider the T5U a refit). It can still coexist with more advanced ships while being the flagship. To put it with movie examples. In Star Trek the search for Spock the Connie Enterprise is destroyed, but it is not replaced with the superior Excelsior, Enterprise A is still a Connie.
Hang on. The T5-U upgrade is per-account, no? I'll have to check on that.
His math is off, he would need another 2000 Zen in fleet modules. The upgrade is account-wide, but you need the base (fleet) version to begin with.
Or the games (coughAeriacough) where they have "bonus" events where you get extra - sometimes exclusive - cash shop stuff for spending enough. With milestones up to $1000+. In a month. :eek:
(Which reminds me of another wonderful f2p thing: temporary items. "You want more inventory space? Just spend $10 on this extra backpack... good for 30 days! What, you wanted a permanent one? Oh, that's a rare drop in our $5 lockboxes.")
Some of the ships I purchased were under the auspice they were the best of the best. The best help someone could get.
These ships were gained through cash transactions, not through time spent in-game (although my Odyssey 3-pack was purchased with zen paid for in dilithium).
I did not 'quest' for my top tier ships. I did not get a big sense of achievement out of acquiring them. They were virtual merchandise. That was it. When it comes to MMO's, cash shop items are weighted in a far different way than items achieved through in-game means. I do not mind having to be railroaded into upgrading items achieved in game, but railroaded into upgrading items I bought in the cash shop previously is an entirely different matter. One I think is deplorable.
I did not like the idea of fleet ships, either. But I got over it when they were implemented. I told myself that Fleet ships would be it. That they would not force me to pay more money for the same ship.
No, I was wrong there too.
I purchased a T5-U for my Tactical Odyssey, and just to try things out... I went with the Federation Fleet Alert. I tried some of the other missions out too. And the fact my Odyssey actually appears to be performing worse than before DR has left the 700 zen price tag a sour taste in my mouth.
I have not had buyer's remorse in a video game since I paid $80 for TOR. But Delta Rising left that feeling with me again.
I am unhappy with it all.
I am unhappy with the communication delivered in the form of dev blogs, when I can actually find out more from a non-PWE website like Reddit on tangible information that will either encourage me or discourage me to make a Zen purchase.
I am unhappy with the convoluted and confusing mess which was the difference between T5U and T6. I am unhappy with the blatantly misleading notation on the Romulan Doff promo that the JHAS would be given T6 'capabilities' come Delta Rising in an attempt to get people to participate in the promo.
I am unhappy that despite good intentions, at PWE it came off as an incredibly shady and underhanded marketing tactic. I expect more out of STO's publisher.
But most importantly, I am unhappy that 'normal' things I am supposed to be able to faceroll and test out my ship and builds on is now incredibly difficult (or at least long-winded) due to enemy HP levels.
It gives me the false impression my T5-U ship not only seems necessary to do Delta Rising content (when assured in dev communication it wouldn't be necessary), but that it does not seem that even T5-U ships are enough for me to do content I used to be able to mindlessly blast away at before.
While possibly unintentional (and to Cryptic's credit Geko has addressed that it seems Normal needs to be scaled back a bit), it disappoints me greatly that this is Delta Rising's launch.
Cryptic painted themselves into this corner by making ships cash shop items. But I simply do not like having to fork over 700 zen for each ship I want to barely be viable for Normal content.
I recognize their need to make money. But I do not like being put in that position, especially when I made the purchase to begin with under the auspice it was the best help I could get and would need nothing further.
I will still play STO and remain objective and unbiased in my criticisms of both the dev team and the playerbase, but Delta Rising has not given me any good feelings outside of the enjoyable mission and story content.
And most certainly not the fiasco which was T5-U and T6 ships, which I was hoping they would correct. But it would appear they chose not to.
got mine last night for 8mill
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There were other choices. Other, less convoluted choices. They did not pursue any of them.
Instead, they came up with this T5-U system to go with the T6 system. A system that is by many accounts incredibly confusing and needlessly complicated. They could have just done away with T5-U entirely and just made these ships T6.
Instead, they shot themselves in the foot by this needlessly complicated explanation. While I eventually understood it, I do not expect the lowest common denominator of STO to understand.
They could have offered upgrade tokens for a class of ships instead of singular ships. They didn't.
They could have offered some other methods of upgrading your ship that did not involve the cash shop, and they could have done it in such a way where 1 additional console slot vs. an additional bridge officer ability and ship trait was not horribly weighted against one another.
They could have offered ship traits for sale in the C-store -- I may have actually paid for that, too. They could have offered ship traits in a time gated fashion. They could have offered to put intelligence officers in universal bridge officer seating for regular ships. They did not.
They could have made ship traits extremely difficult to attain in game but easily attained via C-store. They could have put an emphasis on pay4convenience, instead of a thin veil of pay2win. And I am never one to call STO pay2win.
They could have made players who are attached to their ships the opportunity to play the game to attain improved capabilities and extra perks, or the option to bypass it via a paywall. They could have sent us all on a fantastic journey that requires us to be in game to upgrade our ships, or the convenience of simply paying for it.
But given the option they chose to pursue, I am unhappy.
If you look at T5U as a money grubbing action the no price will be sufficient.
If you look at T5U as a Cryptic allowing ships we've had for a while to be used in the update then 700z is a fair price.
Let us explore it... together. Each man hides a secret pain. It must be exposed and reckoned with. It must be dragged from the darkness and forced into the light. Share your pain. Share your pain with me... and gain strength from the sharing.
they could make new varients. the Sovie has 5 model variants to her. the Avenger has 1.
or what some of my fleet suggested some time ago. you buy a hull say cruiser hull and it has all the basic traits the cruiser has but you can put any cruiser model with it. Imagine the interesting kit bashes you could see. Customization was at the core of what this game was promoted as but has gone away from.
Yeah it's a real shame, tier 6 is going to kill customization. I got a good laugh at people thinking the extra skins and nacelles on the intel ships were a big deal.
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Marketing at PWE/Cryptic have proven they are masters at wordsmithing. That isn't a compliment, either.
They can't use lay terms or use straight talk to describe what is coming. While I appreciate any kind of communication, the quality of communication has been a constant headache.
If they have to use weasel words such as "The JHAS will receive T6 capabilities when Delta Rising launches!" in their promotional material, it really just encourages distrust with Perfect World. They weren't wrong, but the fact they have to word it in such a way comes off as shady.
Customers don't care about technicalities like that. Those technicalities are there to cover PWE/Cryptic's aft, not for the benefit of the customer. And if they have to word things in such a way as to cover their own TRIBBLE, then they shouldn't be surprised when the players become distrustful of what they say.
If their carefully worded communication like that is not for the benefit of the customer, then it portrays them in a potentially negative light.
Agreed It is bull TRIBBLE
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I have enough Zen to just about afford a single FSM and a token, which is enough to fully upgrade the ship I have in mind.
For now I'm not, still levelling the captain who will fly this ship. In the meantime if any sale for FSM's or tokens come up I'll grab them then.
I'm not that great with earning lots of EC, and I'll need what I have to grab gear for the ship. It's certainly handy that MK XII gear is much cheaper than it used to be!
Remember that in many cases, we've already paid for said ships. We now have to do so again.
Thing is, Cryptic is delivering the same amount of content for 3000zen that they used to for 2500 or even 2000, and old stuff is getting a 700zen fine because it's not new stuff. It's getting out of hand and I for one, will no longer be buying stuff.
I'm guessing you hadn't followed any of the last months' discussion of the topic then, since the fact that it was going to be at least 500 min has been known for a long time.
You see it as a "fine". I see it as a chance to keep playing a ship you like a bit longer.
Instead of this "fine", would you have preferred that there be no upgrade option, and just "hey, buy a T6 ship"?
Either way, this was an MMO level cap increase - old equipment was destined to be just that: old. /shrug
What dont you get? I have 20-something 10-console T5 ships. They are all obsolete in PVP that was working fine a month ago. They are not particularly good for current advanced PVE difficulty either. The ships I was using to grind STFs and fleet alert last month now need an upgrade to be used in the same STFs this week. I have to buy 20-something upgrades to run the same gear through the same content, and you dont get it?
20 ships for 500 zen is 10000 zen, $100 worth of zen to use the same ships in the same content and you dont get it? I dont even know current dil exchange but even if its just 150 then that is 1,500,000 dilithium. Oh they are on the exchange for 10m so that is only ... 200 million EC to get back to even? LOL
And even if you upgrade its money gone to waste because all future development is T6 and upgraded T5-U will be nothing but fancy storage ships with nonrecoverable upgrades. Same goes for fleet T5 btw. Anybody who puts fleet modules on a T5 at this point is making a sacrificial offering of burnt money to Geko.
but they already have with the intial ships. again the sovie has 5 models in totoal. and you can mix and match them. that is kitbashing. so why not the full thing. Heck the Guardians is a kitbash of Ambassador and Galaxy.
so you are okay to pay 700 zen more then a T6 ship on a ship that after payment will not match the T6 ship?
This reflects my opinion and i didn't even have to read beyond the first page to find it.
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Yup. The ship I plan to upgrade was free, so I only need to 'buy' a single FSM and a token - both of which came from converting Dil to Zen.
So I've personally not had to spend a penny. I was saving the Dil for rep gear but meh, I reckon a better ship would be a wiser investment.
I do understand however that if I had already paid 2500/3000 Zen on a ship, then a further 2000 Zen on 4 FSM's...and THEN another 700 Zen for a token. Yeah I'd be miffed too.
I'm glad I don't buy ships.
here's to add to it. Some of my ships I did pay money for, others dil grind. but after that half my fleet is useless since their mirror and don't get an upgrade. Yes lucky yiou, you fly around in one ship and that one happens to be among the freebies. congrats. But some of us likely to change it up once and awhile. The whole upgrade system was poorly done.
It's not copy and paste...they actually came out and said its not.
Let us explore it... together. Each man hides a secret pain. It must be exposed and reckoned with. It must be dragged from the darkness and forced into the light. Share your pain. Share your pain with me... and gain strength from the sharing.
I think all ships should be able to be upgraded
agreed, ALL T5 ships be upgradable