Phil Gorngonzolla - GREAT job on the T5U ships

glassguitar · October 2014

I have to admit, I was VERY skeptical about the balance of T5U to T6 ships. I thought I might have to abandon my favorites in favor of the new and shiny.

I was worried for naught. Mad props to you Phil for the great job on balancing the ships. I have mastered the following:

T6 Hazari
T6 Benthan
T5U Narcine
T5U Tal Shiar Destroyer
T5U Fleet Defiant
T5U Fleet Galaxy X
T5U Breen Raider
T5U Fleet Heavy Escort Carrier
T5U Fleet Avenger

I feel equally powerful in each of these ships and each one retains an individual identity. The T6 traits are nice but not so powerful as to disadvantage someone who doesn't have them.

There are things about Delta Rising that I am frustrated with, primarily the dilthium cost of the item upgrade system, but in this area a home run has been hit and I feel compelled to say so.

Thanks Phil for the hard work and for the interaction with us, The results of your passionate dedication to your work are evident and (by me at least) much appreciated!

zombiedeadheaded · October 2014

Someone who spend a ton of money feels 'justified' Good for you. Well done. Congratulations.

mightybobcnc · October 2014

Dang man, I've only mastered 2.9 ships. How many civilizations have you killed so far? :P

pulserazor · October 2014

this is the part where I tell you all that I told you so.

The notion that t6 was going to eclips everything else and cryptic was going to forgo the revenue potential of classic lockbox ships while they steadily go up in value was ridiculous.

also,

zombiedeadheaded wrote: »

Someone who spend a ton of money feels 'justified' Good for you. Well done. Congratulations.

Dont hate, appreciate. We pay so you can play for free.

bareel · October 2014

pulserazor wrote: »

this is the part where I tell you all that I told you so.

The notion that t6 was going to eclips everything else and cryptic was going to forgo the revenue potential of classic lockbox ships while they steadily go up in value was ridiculous.

also,

Dont hate, appreciate. We pay so you can play for free.

So that's why the new lockbox ship is a fleet quality T6 and my old ones have one fewer boff ability plus no lvl 5 trait :rolleyes:

Your T5U will be as obsolete as standard non fleet T5 have been for over a year once Cryptic generously offers you the ability to upgrade your T6 ships to fleet quality for another $5. That might not matter to you, matters to me.

trek21 · October 2014

bareel wrote: »

So that's why the new lockbox ship is a fleet quality T6 and my old ones have one fewer boff ability plus no lvl 5 trait :rolleyes:

Your T5U will be as obsolete as standard non fleet T5 have been for over a year once Cryptic generously offers you the ability to upgrade your T6 ships to fleet quality for another $5. That might not matter to you, matters to me.

Well, for some of us, obsolete doesn't mean unplayable; I for one will continue to play with T5-U's

Because T6 mostly doesn't interest me, or seems that particularly 'better' - yes seriously on that last part.

catoblepasbeta · October 2014

trek21 wrote: »

Well, for some of us, obsolete doesn't mean unplayable; I for one will continue to play with T5-U's Because T6 mostly doesn't interest me, or seems that particularly 'better' - yes seriously on that last part.

well, you can call it whatever you want. You can say the Oberth isn't obsolete in STO, it still doesn't change the facts when you get to the bottom line- T6 are better than their T5u counterparts, and T6 Fleet are better than their T5u Fleet counterparts.

buddha1369 · October 2014

bareel wrote: »

Your T5U will be as obsolete as standard non fleet T5 have been for over a year

Because one console, 10% hull, and 10% shields COMBINED totally compare to one single BOFF ability. Not to mention completely ignoring that plenty of people have been flying Mirror ships against Fleet ships successfully for a long time.

I am starting to believe you people pushing the "obsoleteness" myth are secretly working for cryptic to brainwash people into paying for T6 ships by making them believe they cant play without them.

jexsamx · October 2014

The only people who are really going to notice the improvement in T6 versus T5U are the ones who were already closely watching the various numbers their ships spew out.

For the rest of us the difference is so minor as to be negligible, and that's all Cryptic really needed to do.

orangeitis · October 2014

catoblepasbeta wrote: »

well, you can call it whatever you want. You can say the Oberth isn't obsolete in STO, it still doesn't change the facts when you get to the bottom line- T6 are better than their T5u counterparts, and T6 Fleet are better than their T5u Fleet counterparts.

...so what?

walshicus · October 2014

They really should just ditch the T5U naming convention. Just call them T6 and give every pre-DR ship a generic class-based ship trait. It's not like they're not making money off us upgrading them.

atomictiki · October 2014

Never has an overpriced copy/paste job received such high praise. /slowclap

orangeitis · October 2014

walshicus wrote: »

They really should just ditch the T5U naming convention. Just call them T6 and give every pre-DR ship a generic class-based ship trait. It's not like they're not making money off us upgrading them.

I enjoy your idea.

I'd call the "upgrade" process retrofitting, 'cause that's technically what is happening.

catoblepasbeta · October 2014

orangeitis wrote: »

...so what?

So that's something that certain people might find important? :rolleyes:

You can split hairs over whether or not it fits your personal definition of 'obsolete' all day, but at the end of the day, there's a legitimate difference between T6 and T5u that can be criticized. It's not as simple as a matter of 'taste' in the design of T6 vs T5u ships.

buddha1369 wrote: »

Because one console, 10% hull, and 10% shields COMBINED totally compare to one single BOFF ability. Not to mention completely ignoring that plenty of people have been flying Mirror ships against Fleet ships successfully for a long time.

I am starting to believe you people pushing the "obsoleteness" myth are secretly working for cryptic to brainwash people into paying for T6 ships by making them believe they cant play without them.

That's not even remotely accurate.

T6 ships get an extra boff slot, a T5 mastery trait, specialist boffs, and oftimes just plain better stats than their T5u counterparts.

The console slot and 10% hull is only an issue when comparing T6 ships to T5u Fleet ships. T6 vs 'normal' T5u ships, T6 is better, hands down. And we know that T6 fleet is getting the extra console and hull, so the comparison of T6 to T5u fleet is a bad one.

orangeitis · October 2014

catoblepasbeta wrote: »

So that's something that certain people might find important? :rolleyes:

You can split hairs over whether or not it fits your personal definition of 'obsolete' all day, but at the end of the day, there's a legitimate difference between T6 and T5u that can be criticized.

Again, so what?

While some people are worrying that they lack one BOFF power and they have a grind wall in front of a Starship trait they want, the rest of us will continue flying our "legitimately different" T5-U ships alongside T6 ships and there won't be a shred of difference noticed. No cares given.

catoblepasbeta · October 2014

orangeitis wrote: »

Again, so what?

While some people are worrying that they lack one BOFF power and they have a grind wall in front of a Starship trait they want, the rest of us will continue flying our "legitimately different" T5-U ships alongside T6 ships and there won't be a shred of difference noticed. No cares given.

The advantages of T6 vs T5u are there regardless of whether you cover your ears and go 'LaLaLa' to ignore the elephant in the room.

For those of us who do care, there are pretty noticeable advantages for T6 vs T5u

quistra · October 2014

My T5U tac Ody seems to outfight T6 Guardians in most cases.

This, I can live with.

jarfaru · October 2014

buddha1369 wrote: »

Because one console, 10% hull, and 10% shields COMBINED totally compare to one single BOFF ability. Not to mention completely ignoring that plenty of people have been flying Mirror ships against Fleet ships successfully for a long time.

I am starting to believe you people pushing the "obsoleteness" myth are secretly working for cryptic to brainwash people into paying for T6 ships by making them believe they cant play without them.

I'm starting to believe this also. Mostly these people need to justify their purchase of that ship pack. Some people have to have every new shinny that comes out. The only thing i see t6 for will be pvp or some elite stf which i don't do. I have been loving how my t5u fleet Galaxy X has been doing and the masteries are making it even better. Sometimes the info from these so called expert players is just wrong. I feel bad for newbies coming into the game.

quistra · October 2014

jarfaru wrote: »

I'm starting to believe this also. Mostly these people need to justify their purchase of that ship pack. Some people have to have every new shinny that comes out. The only thing i see t6 for will be pvp or some elite stf which i don't do. I have been loving how my t5u fleet Galaxy X has been doing and the masteries are making it even better. Sometimes the info from these so called expert players is just wrong. I feel bad for newbies coming into the game.

I was one of the obsoleteness people.

I am willing to eat crow on this one.

gagocash · October 2014

glassguitar wrote: »

I have to admit, I was VERY skeptical about the balance of T5U to T6 ships. I thought I might have to abandon my favorites in favor of the new and shiny.

I was worried for naught. Mad props to you Phil for the great job on balancing the ships. I have mastered the following:

T6 Hazari
T6 Benthan
T5U Narcine
T5U Tal Shiar Destroyer
T5U Fleet Defiant
T5U Fleet Galaxy X
T5U Breen Raider
T5U Fleet Heavy Escort Carrier
T5U Fleet Avenger

I feel equally powerful in each of these ships and each one retains an individual identity. The T6 traits are nice but not so powerful as to disadvantage someone who doesn't have them.

There are things about Delta Rising that I am frustrated with, primarily the dilthium cost of the item upgrade system, but in this area a home run has been hit and I feel compelled to say so.

Thanks Phil for the hard work and for the interaction with us, The results of your passionate dedication to your work are evident and (by me at least) much appreciated!

Now quickly wash your brown tongue with the tooth brush, you'll need it.^^

buddha1369 · October 2014

catoblepasbeta wrote: »

That's not even remotely accurate.

T6 ships get an extra boff slot, a T5 mastery trait, specialist boffs, and oftimes just plain better stats than their T5u counterparts.

The console slot and 10% hull is only an issue when comparing T6 ships to T5u Fleet ships. T6 vs 'normal' T5u ships, T6 is better, hands down. And we know that T6 fleet is getting the extra console and hull, so the comparison of T6 to T5u fleet is a bad one.

You misunderstand the points being made. He was comparing T6 vs. T5-U to Standard 9 Console vs. Fleet, which is a gross over exaggeration.

The only qualitative difference between T5-U Fleet and T6 FLEET is one BOFF ability, the other fluff is customization options. The Mastery Trait is a console-esque gimmick that CAN be used on T5-U ships just like universal c-store consoles and Intel abilities are no different then some ships having access to powers that others can not due to their seating.

gurugeorge · October 2014

Yeah, storm in a teacup.

I flew a Mirror ship with standard Purple gear for ages before getting my shiny Fleet ship with Fleet gear and consoles. Sure, there was a difference, and I enjoyed working for the goodies, and they felt rewarding - but it's mostly just a difference in not needing to be quite so in the pocket with piloting (i.e. pressing the right keys at the right times).

Same here, with the extras you get a little bit of headroom to relax and be sloppy, but player skill and a good build are still the most important things.

I think you could still probably do all the content in this game (short of these new Advanced/Elite queues) with appropriate-level Green gear.

Of course it's a different story when you're talking about parses and pulling dps weight in a high-level team, there good builds and piloting are a given, and you have to chase down the absolute best gear, because that's what makes the difference at the margin; but so far as actually playing the game casually, solo and with PUGs goes, the game is very forgiving, and the colour/stat differences aren't all that noticeable.

nesomumi2 · October 2014

zombiedeadheaded wrote: »

Someone who spend a ton of money feels 'justified' Good for you. Well done. Congratulations.

i didn't spend a dime, i feel 'justified', what now.

tucana66 · October 2014

reyan01 wrote: »

I will too, because the Nova/Rhode Island is my drop dead favourite ship. It may have fallen behind and is outclassed by the Dauntless/Vesta/Scryer, but I don't care.

The whole T5u issue not withstanding, I use, and will continue to do so for the forseeable, my favourite ship, not the flavour of the month.

Another satisfied member of the Crazy Nova Captains Club[tm].

Signed,
A fellow Nova/Rhode Island ship enthusiast and Captain. Fly what you love!

bareel · October 2014

buddha1369 wrote: »

Because one console, 10% hull, and 10% shields COMBINED totally compare to one single BOFF ability. Not to mention completely ignoring that plenty of people have been flying Mirror ships against Fleet ships successfully for a long time.

Uh, the rest of my post you neglected to quote stated 'when fleet T6 arrive'. Meaning T5U has zero advantages over T6.

buddha1369 wrote: »

I am starting to believe you people pushing the "obsoleteness" myth are secretly working for cryptic to brainwash people into paying for T6 ships by making them believe they cant play without them.

Interesting perspective. I always assumed if people knew their $25+ ship or ?? upgrade was merely a part of the cycle that would become obsolete relatively soon they would, like me, refuse to continue participating in the ship +1 cycle. But that knowledge could, as you say, have the exact opposite effect.

Interesting. But no I don't work for Cryptic, I just cannot stand misinformation. By definition these ships become obsolete it is not a myth. Flying something that is obsolete though does not mean it is useless and doing so may not matter to you, but they are still obsolete.

lowy1 · October 2014

Well I've hit SML 4 on my Fleet Avenger and now using an Eclipse, I can safely say that, that ship will be scrapped once I have the trait unlocked and go back to my Avenger. The ship is a POS even with the Intel Gimmicks.

orangeitis · October 2014

catoblepasbeta wrote: »

The advantages of T6 vs T5u are there regardless of whether you cover your ears and go 'LaLaLa' to ignore the elephant in the room.

Okay, but what if you're honestly not "covering your ears and going 'LaLaLa' to ignore the elephant in the room" and still see no reason to believe there's a difference that matters between T5-U and T6?

Can you demonstrate that the 13th BOFF power matters...?

catoblepasbeta wrote: »

For those of us who do care, there are pretty noticeable advantages for T6 vs T5u

Okay then. I care. Why can't I notice it?

Your position seems to be dependent on nothing but emotional "I'm right because it feels like it" claims. Definitely not a good way to convince anyone of your position.

buddha1369 wrote: »

You misunderstand the points being made. He was comparing T6 vs. T5-U to Standard 9 Console vs. Fleet, which is a gross over exaggeration.

The only qualitative difference between T5-U Fleet and T6 FLEET is one BOFF ability, the other fluff is customization options. The Mastery Trait is a console-esque gimmick that CAN be used on T5-U ships just like universal c-store consoles and Intel abilities are no different then some ships having access to powers that others can not due to their seating.

This.

catoblepasbeta, instead of blaming others for not seeing YOUR point of view, you need to demonstrate what you're claiming to those who can't see it for anyone to take you seriously.

cidstorm · October 2014

As soon as tier 6 fleet comes it's all down hill for tier 5u.

sotek23 · October 2014

cidstorm wrote: »

As soon as tier 6 fleet comes it's all down hill for tier 5u.

shhh don't reveal the plan T5Uupgrades can still be milked no need to rush fleet T6

bareel · October 2014

orangeitis wrote: »

Can you demonstrate that the 13th BOFF power matters...?

....

you need to demonstrate what you're claiming to those who can't see it for anyone to take you seriously.

If you can't see how a 13th boff power matters nothing I say on a forum can change that.

The amount it matters is debatable and subjective. But to say it doesn't matter at all? :eek:

orangeitis · October 2014

bareel wrote: »

If you can't see how a 13th boff power matters nothing I say on a forum can change that.

The amount it matters is debatable and subjective. But to say it doesn't matter at all? :eek:

I'm not saying that it doesn't matter. I'm just asking why I should believe that it has "pretty noticeable advantages", especially when the claim is subjective.

Whether T6 ships are "better" on paper than T5-U ships or not, especially from only a 13th BOFF station has no bearing on if T6 ships are "better" in practice compared to T5-U ships. Other things come into play. Even if you consider the T6 ships flown by the same captain as the T5-U ships, each ship is different. Each scenario is different. Blanket claims on such a miniscule aspect of a ship does indeed amount to nothing more than opinion.

I'll say it once more: So what? Why should that 13th BOFF power matter to the rest of us?

Phil Gorngonzolla - GREAT job on the T5U ships

Comments