It is what it is, I have no emotional stock eitherway.
But it is nice to know that regardless of how much anything available in the zen store is, a player can earn it for free by populating the game and participating in its activities among subscribers and other people willing to invest in their hobby.
Name a game that is more generous to its f2p players.
It is what it is, I have no emotional stock eitherway.
But it is nice to know that regardless of how much anything available in the zen store is, a player can earn it for free by populating the game and participating in its activities among subscribers and other people willing to invest in their hobby.
Name a game that is more generous to its f2p players.
any genre?
League of Legends.
"a player can earn it for free by populating the game and participating in its activities among subscribers and other people willing to invest in their hobby."
that isnt being generous thats a paywall which essentially says if you play but you're cheap then bugger off lol
It is what it is, I have no emotional stock eitherway.
But it is nice to know that regardless of how much anything available in the zen store is, a player can earn it for free by populating the game and participating in its activities among subscribers and other people willing to invest in their hobby.
Name a game that is more generous to its f2p players.
MWO gives you currency for playing, which you use to buy mechs and gear. Imagine if you could buy ships with EC instead of dil/zen, just play and get EC and go to the shipyard and buy a ship. STO isnt that easy. and STO imposes the bs "refining cap" artificial restraint too. Plus MWO is actually, you know, fun to play.
so are you happy that to upgrade your ship you will have to pay 700 zen is that a fair Price in your eyes or do you fill its to expencive and not worth it whats your views guys
I think it's fine. I've gotten a lot of use out of the C-Store ships I've purchased previously. I think it's a nice gesture to offer a way to continue to use them instead of making them obsolete due to Tier 6.
That said, I bought the 4 pack for 500 Zen each.
People will complain it's 2500 for the ship and an additional cost now, but the 2500 is sunk cost. You've already spent it so it's not really a consideration in whether you'd rather pay 700 for a T5-U or 3000 for a Tier 6. The 2500 only really factors in to the present cost if you're planning to buy a new Tier 5 C-Store ship to upgrade that you don't already own.
Of the T5-U ships I've tried so far, they seem pretty decent. The T5-U Fleet Avenger is pushing 75,000 HP and the ship masteries are decent bonuses. No complaints here.
It is what it is, I have no emotional stock eitherway.
But it is nice to know that regardless of how much anything available in the zen store is, a player can earn it for free by populating the game and participating in its activities among subscribers and other people willing to invest in their hobby.
Name a game that is more generous to its f2p players.
I agree with your post. I used the 3 tokens that came with the Delta Rising pack, I will keep the rest of my ships T5, I like uphill battles.
MWO gives you currency for playing, which you use to buy mechs and gear. Imagine if you could buy ships with EC instead of dil/zen, just play and get EC and go to the shipyard and buy a ship. STO isnt that easy. and STO imposes the bs "refining cap" artificial restraint too. Plus MWO is actually, you know, fun to play.
PWE has to make money somehow. The refining limits are in place to create a time gated currency that some people are willing to pay to get around. That's the only reason Zen / Dil trade works. If they removed the refining cap, no one would buy dil and F2P would die.
MWO gives you currency for playing, which you use to buy mechs and gear. Imagine if you could buy ships with EC instead of dil/zen, just play and get EC and go to the shipyard and buy a ship. STO isnt that easy. and STO imposes the bs "refining cap" artificial restraint too. Plus MWO is actually, you know, fun to play.
I would submit that the game is, "acually, you know, fun to play", or else you and I would be sitting in our ships staring at eachother across an empty map.
(and somehow you knew this was a setup...)
Maybe you should go play MWO then.
Or better yet, visit their forums and endure the same flavor of bile among people who claim it isnt free to play.
PWE has to make money somehow. The refining limits are in place to create a time gated currency that some people are willing to pay to get around. That's the only reason Zen / Dil trade works. If they removed the refining cap, no one would buy dil and F2P would die.
No kidding the cap is there to press people into buying dil with zen. He asked for an example of a F2P game that was more generous to the players and I gave him one. The dil cap is not an example of Cryptic's generosity. It is there for Cryptic's benefit, not to help the players along.
I'm just happy all this blatant monetization happened after City of Heroes shut down.
I shudder to think at all the progression systems in that game could have been tied into p2w features if it had lived longer. It died the hero, while STO has lived long enough to see itself become the villain :O
I think anyone paying for upgrade to T5-U is crazy since we all know full well there are more T6 ships on the way, particularly fleet T6.
At some point soon, Cryptic will run a check on how many players have actually paid out for T6 ships or T5-U upgrade tokens, realise that the numbers are pathetically low, and rethink this whole T6, ship trait and Intel BoFF strategy.
I would submit that the game is, "acually, you know, fun to play", or else you and I would be sitting in our ships staring at eachother across an empty map.
(and somehow you knew this was a setup...)
Maybe you should go play MWO then.
Or better yet, visit their forums and endure the same flavor of bile among people who claim it isnt free to play.
I do play it, and I spend my monthly gaming budget there too. I like to support developers that are at least trying to make a good game.
I only DOFF here and goof around when my brother is online (he's in the Navy so doesnt have a lot of Internet gaming time). I docked my ~20 sihps and am super casual here now, not grinding or paying for anything in STO again.
Yesterday I logged on and tried to do R&D, it was bugged and wouldnt let me. I did a Fleet Alert to check it out and the pug group failed a Gorn attack on wave 4. GG
Not pleased at all. I bought end game ships that are no longer end game. I will not spend more real money to make them end game ships again.
Won't necessarily stop me from buying a token from the exchange though. To each his own, what is only worth fake money to me might be worth real money to someone else.
When you have no more than three ships, then the total cost of a T6 ship brings each of them above the cost of a T6. Imagine before DR that you were able to use a T4 ship, but it was still an inferior ship. Would be pointless.
They are doing the same with this. They are making you pay the same, or more for a total cost, and you are still using an inferior ship. That makes no sense, especially when other ships get a free upgrade. They should have charged for the upgrade for the free, or grind ships, and given the free upgrade to those that already paid for their ships. This would have showed appreciation to those that supported the game in the past, and wouldn't have discouraged them to spend more money.
Also, it would have encouraged players to still buy more of the T5 ships in the C-Store, if they will come with a free upgrade. I think the difference between T5-U, and T6 is about 500 Zen. Since the T6 is 3000, and the T5 are 2500, then giving the upgrade to the T5 for free would have been even. However, if a T5-U is going to be 3200 Zen, then it only makes sense that the T6 cost 3700-4000. But, then you must realize they are not really worth that much.
So, the cost of the upgrade is too much, and should have never been done like this. They were so fixated on making money that they couldn't think reasonably.
Leader of Elite Guardian Academy.Would you like to learn how to run a fleet? Would you like to know how to do ship builds (true budget as well as high end)?The join the Academy today!
That the upgrades are account-wide doesn't concern me because all of my characters use different ships. Otherwise I wouldn't have made them.
This is my problem with it.
i have a ops od a escort carrier the vesta pack a Mogi refit and a mogh battlecruiser, at 700 zen or 2k for 4 im not happy.
if it had been a full upgrade i could live with it but my worry is that i spend all that zen upgrading these ships only in a few months or a year for these ships to be unusable at end game.
"It appears we have lost our sex appeal, captain."- Tuvok
Well, considering that with a $7 price tag, they actually make a t5-u cost $2 more than an actual t6. Is have to say, no I'm not. That'd be like going to a used car lot and paying more for a gremlin than a corvette.
Wouldn't say that I'm "happy" to have to pay more zen to keep ships I've already paid for up-to-date, but the price is about in line with what I expected. It does really stink that Cryptic is triple-dipping you on these tokens if you happen to own a ship 3-pack and are interested in upgrading all 3 versions.
This is my problem with it.. If one token unlocked all variants of a ship for your account then it would be ok. But I own several 3 packs.. I have many alts, I liked to try and experiment with different things.. Tactical captain in a Vesta, Science in an Oddy and Engineer in an Defiant..
Due to this system I will no longer be capable of "playing" around with the game and having fun. It just became a job.
Yes, buying a new T5 ship now and doing all those additional upgrades would be silly (unless, of course, you're a massive fan of a particular ship class/model.)
That's just it I find the new T6 ships bfugly.. No offense to the artist or those who like it.. different people have different tastes. I just simply do not like the appearance of any ships in the pack.. I do however love the apperance of several T2, T3, T4, T5, T5U ships. Sadly, only the T5U or those lucky enough to have a fleet variant can be upgraded to T5U / Fleet.
edit: and do you really need to buy a c-store ship before you can get the fleet version? Or can you just buy the fleet ship? Wouldn't know, never done any fleet stuff. I've just always assumed, since I see the fleet ships in the ship store for X fleet cred/Y fleet modules, that you could just buy them outright.
If you buy the C-store version it only costs 1 fleet module to get the fleet variant, without that C-store purchase you have to buy 4 fleet modules.
I still haven't gotten this completely figured out. If I buy a token for one of my Odyssey ships, does that one token upgrade ALL of my Odyssey ships for ALL of my characters?
No, only the one particular version of the oddy gets upgraded. If you want all variants of your Odyssey upgraded you will have to spend 3 tokens to do it. This is why I hate this new system with a boiling passion. It's anti-alt. Anti-Fun. Not to mention upgrading a T5U ship costs MORE than the price of just buying a T6.. /facepalm
At some point soon, Cryptic will run a check on how many players have actually paid out for T6 ships or T5-U upgrade tokens, realise that the numbers are pathetically low, and rethink this whole T6, ship trait and Intel BoFF strategy.
I'm surprised how little I've seen people flying the T6 ships so far. I have seen the odd one but after several days intense playing, most seem to be sticking with their T5/T5-U. Cryptic will absolutely be monitoring all this and within a few months, if the T6 hasn't done as well as they were hoping, they'll be running back, tail between their legs trying to find a way to re-engage T5 users.
I'm surprised how little I've seen people flying the T6 ships so far. I have seen the odd one but after several days intense playing, most seem to be sticking with their T5/T5-U. Cryptic will absolutely be monitoring all this and within a few months, if the T6 hasn't done as well as they were hoping, they'll be running back, tail between their legs trying to find a way to re-engage T5 users.
If my opinion counts for anything, the T5U and before ships are pretty amazing looking. T6 not so much. It's a personal taste thing I know.. but I don't care how uber a ship is.. If it's fugly to me it will never deface my hangar.
Of course not. Was only just getting round to getting the fleet versions of my 3 or 4 main ships and now I have to do this as well.
[EDIT: I say "have" but obviously I don't have to and wasn't exactly in a hurry to get the fleet versions but at least it looked like an achievable goal. Now I just don't see the point. I could just get a new ship I don't want for the same price as having good enough versions of the ones I do want which I've already paid for.]
No i am not happy at all it is utterly ripoff, spending on ship pack 5000zen then upgrading it each for 700 is just nonsense.
And when you upgrade it, still you don't have tier V trait for your ship.
The upgrade token should be 200 zen because many players including me invested lot of time and money to get T5 ships and now we must spend fortune to get them be competitive and flying again.
For my stand a point all T5 ships should be freely upgradable to T5U like the box ships.
But hey Cryptic needs a fresh dose of milk from cow every day even if the cow had enough they must milk her dry.
The Greediness has now a new level.
so are you happy that to upgrade your ship you will have to pay 700 zen is that a fair Price in your eyes or do you fill its to expencive and not worth it whats your views guys
Frankly, it's complete and total bull TRIBBLE.
I have a Fleet Excelsior. That cost dilithium, Fleet marks and 5 ship modules.
The ship modules cost 500 zen EACH.
So I spent 2,500 zen for ship modules, and now I need to add another 700 zen to level up to Tier 6?
Sod you, Cryptic. Sod you, PWE.
There is a specific area of my anatomy upon which you may place your lips if you think I'll spend another penny on this game.
At some point soon, Cryptic will run a check on how many players have actually paid out for T6 ships or T5-U upgrade tokens, realise that the numbers are pathetically low, and rethink this whole T6, ship trait and Intel BoFF strategy.
Well, or they'll run a check, see that people did use the upgrade tokens, and know that they can discount the loud minority on the forums as not being representative of the playerbase.
One of the two. And unless they show us those stats, we won't know which one it is either. /shrug
edit: although it is rather typical that game forums are the most outspoken players, not the average ones. (Take, for instance, the Mass Effect games. It was very interesting that Bioware kept releasing all those statistics about ME3. So we could see that, while many many people on forums talked about how wonderful Jennifer Hale's FemShep performance was and how they preferred it to BroShep.... the vast majority of players played BroShep.)
I think the upgrades were a little meh for the 700 zen. I do think that it's a little bit of bs that we upgrade the t5 ships for a little hull boost and a console slot. Why don't the t6 ships have that slot already??? T5 and T6 are the same for the most part....but maybe that's just me.
So we could see that, while many many people on forums talked about how wonderful Jennifer Hale's FemShep performance was and how they preferred it to BroShep.... the vast majority of players played BroShep.
I always thought those people were oblivious, and could not disagree strongly enough with them.
I say oblivious, because I thought MaleShep was perfectly emoted. MaleShep's generally professional tone, with the subtle inflections, perfectly match the actual law enforcement and military officers I've known.
FemShep is basically the sitcom version of them - over-emoted, over-acted.
They said it would be between 500-1000 zen, and it's not over 1000 zen, so I have nothing to complain about.
You were suckered by a common marketing tactic. 700 became acceptable because it was not the worst case presented. It was far from the actual value of the upgrade, which should have been 250.
I bought the dr pack with zen I was shocked it was in the c-store the first day that was a nice surprise.
if i hadn't I would have debated but I did notice you can get a 4 pack for 2k zen so thats 500 each.
now being account wide.
for example I just upgraded my scimitar on one of my toons using my free token, and I notice the other 6 of my toons using scimitar's now qualify for free upgrades of there scimitar
so that one token covered that ship across the board.
I guess it comes down to it if its worth it to you.
[/QUOTE]
Well to me Yes upgrading my T5 Excelsior Is worth it, but I don't agree with the price. I will do everything I can to upgrade but Really there asking just a little more then it should. so for some t5 ships you buy for 2500/25$ and that's regular t5 the t6 bought separately are 30$ so that's 32$ for a t5-U and 30$ for T6. OK so t5-U is just a bit extra For an extra console level system to level 4 and hull scaling. the t6 has that all to but extra bridge level 5 and so on. so for a t5 end game ship is just 2$ extra then a t6 endgame with even better powers. Are they trying to make the new ships cheaper so we buy them I would think the t6 would be extra which would be OK. but its only 2$ so in the end its just what to want to buy its really not a huge deal.......
More BOFF stations is better than more consoles, and you get the more consoles from Lobi/Lockbox/Fleet T6 anyway. Plus T6 has higher base stats.
one point to be made, the extra station is for intel boffs only, you could have ended up having to buy intel boffs and you can only use the intel boffs if you have the free boff spaces before hand, if you don't have the free spaces that many don't you have to purchase them or discard boffs so you could have ended up paying far more one way or another if they give you the boff station then you have now.
it should also be noted that not all T6 ships get the extra intel boff station.
When I think about everything we've been through together,
maybe it's not the destination that matters, maybe it's the journey,
and if that journey takes a little longer,
so we can do something we all believe in,
I can't think of any place I'd rather be or any people I'd rather be with.
Comments
But it is nice to know that regardless of how much anything available in the zen store is, a player can earn it for free by populating the game and participating in its activities among subscribers and other people willing to invest in their hobby.
Name a game that is more generous to its f2p players.
any genre?
League of Legends.
"a player can earn it for free by populating the game and participating in its activities among subscribers and other people willing to invest in their hobby."
that isnt being generous thats a paywall which essentially says if you play but you're cheap then bugger off lol
MWO gives you currency for playing, which you use to buy mechs and gear. Imagine if you could buy ships with EC instead of dil/zen, just play and get EC and go to the shipyard and buy a ship. STO isnt that easy. and STO imposes the bs "refining cap" artificial restraint too. Plus MWO is actually, you know, fun to play.
I think it's fine. I've gotten a lot of use out of the C-Store ships I've purchased previously. I think it's a nice gesture to offer a way to continue to use them instead of making them obsolete due to Tier 6.
That said, I bought the 4 pack for 500 Zen each.
People will complain it's 2500 for the ship and an additional cost now, but the 2500 is sunk cost. You've already spent it so it's not really a consideration in whether you'd rather pay 700 for a T5-U or 3000 for a Tier 6. The 2500 only really factors in to the present cost if you're planning to buy a new Tier 5 C-Store ship to upgrade that you don't already own.
Of the T5-U ships I've tried so far, they seem pretty decent. The T5-U Fleet Avenger is pushing 75,000 HP and the ship masteries are decent bonuses. No complaints here.
I agree with your post. I used the 3 tokens that came with the Delta Rising pack, I will keep the rest of my ships T5, I like uphill battles.
PWE has to make money somehow. The refining limits are in place to create a time gated currency that some people are willing to pay to get around. That's the only reason Zen / Dil trade works. If they removed the refining cap, no one would buy dil and F2P would die.
I would submit that the game is, "acually, you know, fun to play", or else you and I would be sitting in our ships staring at eachother across an empty map.
(and somehow you knew this was a setup...)
Maybe you should go play MWO then.
Or better yet, visit their forums and endure the same flavor of bile among people who claim it isnt free to play.
I shudder to think at all the progression systems in that game could have been tied into p2w features if it had lived longer. It died the hero, while STO has lived long enough to see itself become the villain :O
I think anyone paying for upgrade to T5-U is crazy since we all know full well there are more T6 ships on the way, particularly fleet T6.
At some point soon, Cryptic will run a check on how many players have actually paid out for T6 ships or T5-U upgrade tokens, realise that the numbers are pathetically low, and rethink this whole T6, ship trait and Intel BoFF strategy.
I only DOFF here and goof around when my brother is online (he's in the Navy so doesnt have a lot of Internet gaming time). I docked my ~20 sihps and am super casual here now, not grinding or paying for anything in STO again.
Yesterday I logged on and tried to do R&D, it was bugged and wouldnt let me. I did a Fleet Alert to check it out and the pug group failed a Gorn attack on wave 4. GG
Won't necessarily stop me from buying a token from the exchange though. To each his own, what is only worth fake money to me might be worth real money to someone else.
I still have Nicor and Aqua.carrier in box, not opened yet
so the upgrade is free for me. I didn't take them to battle yet though. Just doing doffing in my cell ship for now.
Ain't Nobody Got Time for That
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
They are doing the same with this. They are making you pay the same, or more for a total cost, and you are still using an inferior ship. That makes no sense, especially when other ships get a free upgrade. They should have charged for the upgrade for the free, or grind ships, and given the free upgrade to those that already paid for their ships. This would have showed appreciation to those that supported the game in the past, and wouldn't have discouraged them to spend more money.
Also, it would have encouraged players to still buy more of the T5 ships in the C-Store, if they will come with a free upgrade. I think the difference between T5-U, and T6 is about 500 Zen. Since the T6 is 3000, and the T5 are 2500, then giving the upgrade to the T5 for free would have been even. However, if a T5-U is going to be 3200 Zen, then it only makes sense that the T6 cost 3700-4000. But, then you must realize they are not really worth that much.
So, the cost of the upgrade is too much, and should have never been done like this. They were so fixated on making money that they couldn't think reasonably.
This is my problem with it.
i have a ops od a escort carrier the vesta pack a Mogi refit and a mogh battlecruiser, at 700 zen or 2k for 4 im not happy.
if it had been a full upgrade i could live with it but my worry is that i spend all that zen upgrading these ships only in a few months or a year for these ships to be unusable at end game.
"It appears we have lost our sex appeal, captain."- Tuvok
This is my problem with it.. If one token unlocked all variants of a ship for your account then it would be ok. But I own several 3 packs.. I have many alts, I liked to try and experiment with different things.. Tactical captain in a Vesta, Science in an Oddy and Engineer in an Defiant..
Due to this system I will no longer be capable of "playing" around with the game and having fun. It just became a job.
That's just it I find the new T6 ships bfugly.. No offense to the artist or those who like it.. different people have different tastes. I just simply do not like the appearance of any ships in the pack.. I do however love the apperance of several T2, T3, T4, T5, T5U ships. Sadly, only the T5U or those lucky enough to have a fleet variant can be upgraded to T5U / Fleet.
If you buy the C-store version it only costs 1 fleet module to get the fleet variant, without that C-store purchase you have to buy 4 fleet modules.
No, only the one particular version of the oddy gets upgraded. If you want all variants of your Odyssey upgraded you will have to spend 3 tokens to do it. This is why I hate this new system with a boiling passion. It's anti-alt. Anti-Fun. Not to mention upgrading a T5U ship costs MORE than the price of just buying a T6.. /facepalm
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Campaign: The Battle of Neverwinter - NWS-DOQXFA4ZD
Prologue: A not so simple plan - NW-DCJG75B9D
I'm surprised how little I've seen people flying the T6 ships so far. I have seen the odd one but after several days intense playing, most seem to be sticking with their T5/T5-U. Cryptic will absolutely be monitoring all this and within a few months, if the T6 hasn't done as well as they were hoping, they'll be running back, tail between their legs trying to find a way to re-engage T5 users.
If my opinion counts for anything, the T5U and before ships are pretty amazing looking. T6 not so much. It's a personal taste thing I know.. but I don't care how uber a ship is.. If it's fugly to me it will never deface my hangar.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Campaign: The Battle of Neverwinter - NWS-DOQXFA4ZD
Prologue: A not so simple plan - NW-DCJG75B9D
[EDIT: I say "have" but obviously I don't have to and wasn't exactly in a hurry to get the fleet versions but at least it looked like an achievable goal. Now I just don't see the point. I could just get a new ship I don't want for the same price as having good enough versions of the ones I do want which I've already paid for.]
And when you upgrade it, still you don't have tier V trait for your ship.
The upgrade token should be 200 zen because many players including me invested lot of time and money to get T5 ships and now we must spend fortune to get them be competitive and flying again.
For my stand a point all T5 ships should be freely upgradable to T5U like the box ships.
But hey Cryptic needs a fresh dose of milk from cow every day even if the cow had enough they must milk her dry.
The Greediness has now a new level.
Is Cryptic trying to milk a BULL now ???
Frankly, it's complete and total bull TRIBBLE.
I have a Fleet Excelsior. That cost dilithium, Fleet marks and 5 ship modules.
The ship modules cost 500 zen EACH.
So I spent 2,500 zen for ship modules, and now I need to add another 700 zen to level up to Tier 6?
Sod you, Cryptic. Sod you, PWE.
There is a specific area of my anatomy upon which you may place your lips if you think I'll spend another penny on this game.
Well, or they'll run a check, see that people did use the upgrade tokens, and know that they can discount the loud minority on the forums as not being representative of the playerbase.
One of the two. And unless they show us those stats, we won't know which one it is either. /shrug
edit: although it is rather typical that game forums are the most outspoken players, not the average ones. (Take, for instance, the Mass Effect games. It was very interesting that Bioware kept releasing all those statistics about ME3. So we could see that, while many many people on forums talked about how wonderful Jennifer Hale's FemShep performance was and how they preferred it to BroShep.... the vast majority of players played BroShep.)
I always thought those people were oblivious, and could not disagree strongly enough with them.
I say oblivious, because I thought MaleShep was perfectly emoted. MaleShep's generally professional tone, with the subtle inflections, perfectly match the actual law enforcement and military officers I've known.
FemShep is basically the sitcom version of them - over-emoted, over-acted.
You were suckered by a common marketing tactic. 700 became acceptable because it was not the worst case presented. It was far from the actual value of the upgrade, which should have been 250.
Well to me Yes upgrading my T5 Excelsior Is worth it, but I don't agree with the price. I will do everything I can to upgrade but Really there asking just a little more then it should. so for some t5 ships you buy for 2500/25$ and that's regular t5 the t6 bought separately are 30$ so that's 32$ for a t5-U and 30$ for T6. OK so t5-U is just a bit extra For an extra console level system to level 4 and hull scaling. the t6 has that all to but extra bridge level 5 and so on. so for a t5 end game ship is just 2$ extra then a t6 endgame with even better powers. Are they trying to make the new ships cheaper so we buy them I would think the t6 would be extra which would be OK. but its only 2$ so in the end its just what to want to buy its really not a huge deal.......
one point to be made, the extra station is for intel boffs only, you could have ended up having to buy intel boffs and you can only use the intel boffs if you have the free boff spaces before hand, if you don't have the free spaces that many don't you have to purchase them or discard boffs so you could have ended up paying far more one way or another if they give you the boff station then you have now.
it should also be noted that not all T6 ships get the extra intel boff station.
When I think about everything we've been through together,
maybe it's not the destination that matters, maybe it's the journey,
and if that journey takes a little longer,
so we can do something we all believe in,
I can't think of any place I'd rather be or any people I'd rather be with.