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Reality of ship tiers
bareel
Member Posts: 3 Arc User
All existing T5/U regardless of fleet quality or lockbox source are now a full solid tier behind. Even T6 ships from the delta pack are a half tier (fleet quality +1 console/+10%hull/+10%shield) behind the top tier new fleet quality T6 lockbox ships announced.
So my options to continue flying a top tier ship basically are as follows:
1: Spend ?? zen to upgrade existing T5 which will be surpassed soon by fleet T6 in all ways.
2: Spend ?? zen to purchase a new T6 which will require a further $5 fleet upgrade to remain top tier soon.
3: Use a ship receiving a free T5 upgrade. If it's an event ship awesome, if it's a lockbox ship I remember what it cost and know it will soon be surpassed by fleet T6 in all ways.
4: Acquire a new lockbox ship but remember it will be surpassed in every way eventually as well.
If you don't care about having a top tier ship that is fine nothing wrong with that, continue to enjoy flying whatever it is you enjoy to fly. And sure their is no T6 lockbox carrier yet to replace my JHEC, but their will be.
Myself though, I'm done buying ships. I have absolutely no problem with Cryptic making money or releasing new ships. I do have a problem with all my current ships becoming outdated by them releasing a new tier (basically +1 ships) that obsolete my ships unless I pay money to upgrade them. That is the cycle established by the fleet ship release now being continued with the T6 and soon Fleet T6 roll out. Had the intel ships been designed and released as T5 I would have purchased a few of them.
The new ship level up traits are neat but when warp cores, cruiser commands, etc were added to the game I did not need to rebuy my ships, they were grandfathered in. The other ship traits are merely doffs by another name. If new ships had the unlockable ones and old ships did not I would have no issue.
This issue is compounded by the new queue events. In order to get the same rewards I currently can (existing elite to new advanced) I will face significantly buffed NPCs in the HP/Damage area and in some cases even get lowed rewards.
To say I am disappointed in the approach taken would be an understatement. It feels as if I am being forced to continually pay money to keep my characters, my ships that is, current. It feels existing to buy a new ship that does something different, it feels forced when a new ship does everything your existing one does but better.
So my wallet remains closed. I will not participate in the ship cycle market with my zen, other players zen, or via the exchange. If, or when, that begins to get in the way of my enjoyment of the game I will be simply keep the wallet closed and stop playing.
So my options to continue flying a top tier ship basically are as follows:
1: Spend ?? zen to upgrade existing T5 which will be surpassed soon by fleet T6 in all ways.
2: Spend ?? zen to purchase a new T6 which will require a further $5 fleet upgrade to remain top tier soon.
3: Use a ship receiving a free T5 upgrade. If it's an event ship awesome, if it's a lockbox ship I remember what it cost and know it will soon be surpassed by fleet T6 in all ways.
4: Acquire a new lockbox ship but remember it will be surpassed in every way eventually as well.
If you don't care about having a top tier ship that is fine nothing wrong with that, continue to enjoy flying whatever it is you enjoy to fly. And sure their is no T6 lockbox carrier yet to replace my JHEC, but their will be.
Myself though, I'm done buying ships. I have absolutely no problem with Cryptic making money or releasing new ships. I do have a problem with all my current ships becoming outdated by them releasing a new tier (basically +1 ships) that obsolete my ships unless I pay money to upgrade them. That is the cycle established by the fleet ship release now being continued with the T6 and soon Fleet T6 roll out. Had the intel ships been designed and released as T5 I would have purchased a few of them.
The new ship level up traits are neat but when warp cores, cruiser commands, etc were added to the game I did not need to rebuy my ships, they were grandfathered in. The other ship traits are merely doffs by another name. If new ships had the unlockable ones and old ships did not I would have no issue.
This issue is compounded by the new queue events. In order to get the same rewards I currently can (existing elite to new advanced) I will face significantly buffed NPCs in the HP/Damage area and in some cases even get lowed rewards.
To say I am disappointed in the approach taken would be an understatement. It feels as if I am being forced to continually pay money to keep my characters, my ships that is, current. It feels existing to buy a new ship that does something different, it feels forced when a new ship does everything your existing one does but better.
So my wallet remains closed. I will not participate in the ship cycle market with my zen, other players zen, or via the exchange. If, or when, that begins to get in the way of my enjoyment of the game I will be simply keep the wallet closed and stop playing.
Post edited by bareel on
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SWTOR has been mentioned but you still need to replace all the internals of the item with a new barrel, color crystal etc.
The new wow expansion hits next month. In a day all my characters gear will be no better than junk to use while I level and get quest rewards better than my existing gear that I spend months and months getting.
And I know the first argument is going to be but I paid money for this ship. Well that's your choice. I bought my Aquan carrier without putting a DIME into the game. Doffing R&D mats and selling them on the exchange and bought the pack.
In sto, Cstore ships cost money, real money. Sure you can grind dilithium and all, but in they end, they have a price tag, and someone is paying for it, even if you just buy the zen with dil.
As for your aquatic ship (btw it's not aquan), someone also spent money to buy the keys. Maybe it was stipend, but even then, (s)he spent money, either on gold sub or LTS.
In SWTOR, LOTRO, DDO, or I suppose WOW and others, endgame stuff doesn't cost money. Time, yes, work, perhaps, but never money, unless you pay someone to grind it for you, but that's illegal on most games, and it's a real stupid way to do.
Everytime I loose my gear because of lvl cap increase in those game, I don't care much, I never spend money on it. No big loss, I loose something free, and I have to obtain another free thing.
On STO, I spent real money, and the item I bought are going to be obsolete. And I'm not talking box ships (I bought them through ingame mean, not wallet, I'm not that stupid). I'm talking about the Romulan bundle, the vesta, the kumari and so on. I spent real money for them, and even if I spend even more to upgrade them, they will be obsolete.
Will I buy a ship or not? Still don't know, I'll have to see. But I know that I can do it without spending any $, since I've got 4k zen saved up plus a bunch more dil I could exchange if I need to.
Knowing that an expansion was coming up, with the attendant release of new (higher level/etc) ships & gear made it obvious we would need the resources to obtain that new gear. We've had months to get ready, if we want to avoid spending real $. /shrug
And yeah (re: "omg, obsolete"), threads like this give me all sorts of flashbacks to other MMOs I've played. The raiders in WoW bemoaning how the Super Awesome Gear that they Farmed Raids For Months to get are now Totally Worthless! How can they possibly go on! How dare Blizzard do this to them! :rolleyes::rolleyes:
Well those of us who didn't want to play the same stuff every day for a year anymore couldn't "prepare". It feels doubly punishing to return to the game now. I never before felt so left behind. My R&D **** is still Tier 0. The reps never gave this feeling because T3 or so was reasonably fast to reach and offered you most of what was essential. Now instead of jumping back into the game for 2 or 3 months it might be more like 2 days. We'll see.
No worries yet, I'm sure I'll still enjoy the game for awhile with my existing ships getting the free upgrades but time will tell. I gave feedback a similar way about skill respecs being in the Cstore but have yet to run out of my free ones so time will tell. The League will be here for awhile I hope.
I could buy the DR ship pack and the new lockbox ships later today without spending a dime of my own money. It is the principle of the matter.
Agreed.
And it's not even the 'arguable obsolete' style, even that I can deal with. Yes the Avenger is better than that Sovvy remake Cstore ship in nearly every way, but it is still the same tier and it does not have flat out better stats.
Riot Games still releases new interesting champions without resorting to making them mere +1s. Gazillion Entertainment continues to release new heroes, Warframe new frames, and so on. They make me excited to buy them. They did not resort to tossing out a +1 attribute on the character and then ask for $$ to get it.
another im not spending anymore money post.
What your post is missing is a witty and creative forum signature that illustrates your distain for Star Trek online. No self respecting gamer who logs in every single day to play this game is complete without one.
*Most people would say "micro transaction" but to me those died a long time ago when the cost went above two or thee dollars at most. Hell I dumped $500 on this game last month. Nothing micro about that to me.. And yet I'm still forced to suffer the squeeze....
ingame: @.Spartan
Original Cryptic Forum Name: Spartan (member #124)
The Glorious, Kirk’s Protegè
I think that has one advantage - you get to keep the visuals you like.
In STO currently, if you want a real Tier 6 Ship, you need to change the visuals.
I am not sure if Crpytic really fully appreciates this problem. But the anger over the Intelligence ship looks is basically all about that, I think. The ide aof having to abandon your favorite ship for that doesn't suite well with people. They may say "but the Guardian is okay", but the truth is - if you like the Galaxy or Sovereign or Odysee, no, it's not okay.
I know it would also create quite some anger if Cryptic would sell us a Tier 6 upgrade token for the price of a Tier 6 ship, but I would not be suprised if that is what we'll end up with. Maybe they give us Upgratrofits or whatever that come with an optional alternate skin and fancy console or trait (to justify the cost) and bring the Galaxy, Sovereign, Defiant or whatever to Tier 6.
The minute I knew about the zen charge for upgrades i horded dil...which was made easier by the Crystaline Entity event that I got for 5 of my 8 captains.
Also one of my captains got Tier 5 in the reps on the same day.
I currently have 6000zen....all from dil mining....not one of my dollars spent...depending on pricing I'll either be in T5Us or T6s
The real reality of ship tiers is 5 is not the last number. Like Picard said in Generations....there's plenty of letters left....there's plenty of numbers left. That next level of ship rendering the current level obsolete is a part of Star Trek...especially in the TOS movies from 3 onward.
Anyone ready to quit over this I would say this: play the game first...see if your fears are realized.
Let us explore it... together. Each man hides a secret pain. It must be exposed and reckoned with. It must be dragged from the darkness and forced into the light. Share your pain. Share your pain with me... and gain strength from the sharing.
THIS.
Gear and ships becoming obsolete is just an inconvenience. Being forced to fly ugly Cryptic originals if you want an up2date ship is the real problem though. I have no problems paying or grinding for an upgrade. But I don't to do that if it comes bundled with an ugly skin that is being forced down my throat.
At least now it does. Back before transmog it was pretty annoying.... god, it was such a pain going from interesting armors to the endless iron/fur/rust/spikes of Wrath.
(That said, I'd love some form of transmog here. I was just reminded again, leveling a new Fed, just how much I love the Heavy Cruiser 4-nacelle design. Combined with the wide variety of pylons/etc, you can make all sorts of interesting ships with that one. I don't have any characters with fleet ships, so the best I can do at higher levels is a kinda lousy Mirror version.)
Check EQ, EQ2, LOTRO, DDO, RIFT, ETC all FTP and charge for expansions...
OW, you really need to play a lot more, seriously xD.
What do you mean by that?
That said I paid real money to buy the Vesta 3-pack. But I also got a year and a half of play out of it on my main toon. And should I ever get around to leveling another fed toon I have that ship available for them. So I think I got my money's worth.
There are going to be many, many more T6 ships. If you don't like how these Intelligence ships look, be patient. Today is Day One of T6.
The technicalities I have a much harder time dismissing. The issue here is money spent and in-game additions. Whether or not you (or someone else) grind in-game currency or spend real-life currency, it's your decision to do so or not. When comparing other MMOs, STO favors the player here by even allowing upgradable items to be competitive. Calling the items "obsolete" is a bit strong - it implies that they are no longer of any use whatsoever and that's just not the case.
If you pay a subscription fee or purchase things in a store, either way money is being spent. The game has to progress, and the fact that is a free-to-play game means that they have to be financially supported some how.
I'd rather have to pay to get new things, if I decide I want to, than have to pay a subscription monthly or have commercials and ad banners pop up during STFs and sector space travel.
If I had to pick between an extra boff slot, an extra console slot, or a ship trait, I probably would have gone with the console, but I really don't see why we couldn't have gotten all three - especially for the grand prize lock box ships.
I'll withholding final judgment until I see how it all plays out, but yeah, kind of disappointed.
this...many games do not let you play the new content for free. Non subscription players in Wow can only advance their characters to level 20 and that is it.
In STO you can play everything (except elite cues) for free..and the content can be done in that last free level 40 ship you received.
Let us explore it... together. Each man hides a secret pain. It must be exposed and reckoned with. It must be dragged from the darkness and forced into the light. Share your pain. Share your pain with me... and gain strength from the sharing.
But they aren't "obsolete". They just aren't the newest. Is the USS Nimitz "obsolete" compared to the USS George HW Bush? No, it is just older and doesn't have the "bells and whistles". First, you can play the new story content with them just fine. Now if you do PVP or want to do the "elite" queues, then you MAY need to upgrade, but considering the people that do elite ques in T1 ships manage to make those "obsolete" things work, if you work hard enough or find the little tricks, your paid for Z-Store T5s will be fine.
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/obsolete
Obsolete is the correct word. The ships may still be usable for low-level content but they are no longer usable for final end-game content. Certainly not usable for lvl 60 PVP. Its also doubtful that they will be of much use for elite STFs, just to grind the the same dilithium rewards as before. No longer usable, fallen into disuse = obsolete.
Just because you are low-level player who is happy to use low-level ships for low-level content does not mean that is the standard that all players are measured by. The game wont last long without advanced players pushing advanced content.
You couldnt handle my stuff
why not...it's all obsolete:D
Let us explore it... together. Each man hides a secret pain. It must be exposed and reckoned with. It must be dragged from the darkness and forced into the light. Share your pain. Share your pain with me... and gain strength from the sharing.
Ohhh Khaaaaaaaaaaaaan Burn! :P