That could work, and again, depending on the nature of the severity, might avoid/raise the issue of someone refusing a questionable order :cool:
More like avoid. I'm thinking Kathryn would either be ordered to do so (and thus be the dutiful soldier) or would agree to the order even though it was inherently questionable. There, she would be innocently culpable ... maybe "culpable" is the wrong word ... Heck, she may have requested permission to do the act and top brass agreed!
I dunno. I may just "go with it". Keep in mind she spaced a Borg drone that was Orion to satisfy her vendetta
When I have to write regarding military charges, I use what I know of the UCMJ or the British equivalent as a base, but stick to the attitude we saw from the JAG and Starfleet in general during the series, which suggested a much softer approach than what the UCMJ entails (e.g. Kirk being demoted instead of discharged, Wesley not being thrown out of SFA, Worf getting a slap on the wrist for disobeying orders instead of a court martial, etc.).
So, while the UCMJ is a good basis, I'd say it's best to go by what we saw in the shows. Starfleet seems to have more lax protocols to deal with infractions.
Hell, Kirk disobeyed the Prime Directive in ST:ID and just got busted down to Commander!
I know what you mean, although I donwonder how much of that was writer's indulgence/Plot Necessity to avoid losing characters... When I started totting up the breaches Ael threw and Chanos, I had a bit a "whoa, he's really in the s**t..." moment :cool:
More like avoid. I'm thinking Kathryn would either be ordered to do so (and thus be the dutiful soldier) or would agree to the order even though it was inherently questionable. There, she would be innocently culpable ... maybe "culpable" is the wrong word ... Heck, she may have requested permission to do the act and top brass agreed!
I dunno. I may just "go with it". Keep in mind she spaced a Borg drone that was Orion to satisfy her vendetta
I guess it depends on how you want to play it, and what repercussions you may wish to show, but I know you like handle Kathryn's life in a non-linear fashion :cool:
When I have to write regarding military charges, I use what I know of the UCMJ or the British equivalent as a base, but stick to the attitude we saw from the JAG and Starfleet in general during the series, which suggested a much softer approach than what the UCMJ entails (e.g. Kirk being demoted instead of discharged, Wesley not being thrown out of SFA, Worf getting a slap on the wrist for disobeying orders instead of a court martial, etc.).
So, while the UCMJ is a good basis, I'd say it's best to go by what we saw in the shows. Starfleet seems to have more lax protocols to deal with infractions.
Hell, Kirk disobeyed the Prime Directive in ST:ID and just got busted down to Commander!
As worffan is wont to point out, Starfleet also has a history of seemingly letting politics drive the result of the legal system. In ST4, Kirk saves Earth for the third or fourth time which makes Starfleet look all kinds of good, so cashiering him would've been politically inconvenient. Likewise, the only way I can rationalize Worf's extradition hearing in "Rules of Engagement" being allowed to go as far as it did -- logically, Miss Vulcan Judge, only Starfleet JAG Corps has jurisdiction over actions taken by active duty Starfleet personnel in the conduct of their duties, not the Klingon legal system -- was that somebody upstairs was trying to throw Worf under the bus to curry favor with the Klingons and maybe get them to call off that frankly bloody stupid and completely pointless war.
And then there's that theory regarding why Janeway wasn't court-martialed, that being that it would've embarrassed Starfleet to have them spend three or so years building her up as a hero only to have to turn around and send her to prison for the rest of her natural frakking life (because the Federation presumably doesn't have the death penalty), so they kicked her upstairs and covered the whole thing up.
I went that route to deal with Eleya's oft-referenced tantrum at the Jenolan conference. It'd be out of character for her to take all the whitewashing and stupidity there lying down, so I couldn't have her just keep her mouth shut. So, she openly admits she should've gotten a bad conduct discharge for that, but she then proceeded to help save ESD and Qo'noS, including rescuing Shon from the Aquarius (because TRIBBLE Tuvok, the player ship is way closer during the death ride). Shon stuck his neck out for her and some of the dignitaries present agreed with her (and it helps that there's a Bajoran in the president's cabinet). Besides which a lot of Starfleet's reserves just got trashed so they couldn't afford to court-martial her (whatever her diplomatic shortcomings, she's a good soldier).
So they gave her a medal for bravery, put a reprimand in her file that means she'll never make admiral (not that she wants to), and packed her off to Deep Space 9 to get her out of the political line of fire until the yelling dies down. Basically the Bunny-Ears Lawyer in action. I also envision Command telling Tuvok not to invite Eleya the next time he holds a conference.
The STID situation is stupid, though. Not only did Alt!Kirk break the Prime Directive -- honestly, I don't have a problem with him trying to save that village, I have a problem with him doing it so incompetently that he got seen -- but he deliberately tried to cover it up with an equal level of incompetence. He fully deserved to be cashiered.
"Great War! / And I cannot take more! / Great tour! / I keep on marching on / I play the great score / There will be no encore / Great War! / The War to End All Wars"
— Sabaton, "Great War"
I'll be the first person to admit that in any real-world military, Three would have been kicked out and ostracized LONG ago.
But she's got someone fighting for her at Starfleet Command, so she's allowed to be an officially quasi-affiliated subcontractor.
As for D'trel, well, the Republic needs whoever it can get, and chronic depression is just fine if it comes with a side of ruthless combat pragmatism, canny tactics, and unflinching bravery.
As for D'trel, well, the Republic needs whoever it can get, and chronic depression is just fine if it comes with a side of ruthless combat pragmatism, canny tactics, and unflinching bravery.
Also, available data indicate the Romulan military operates under very different rules than Starfleet - I don't think Nniol would have made full Commander even if he hadn't gone AWOL, because he lacks the bloody-mindedness we've seen from officers of the Star Empire. The only reason he ascended through the ranks of the Republic Fleet so rapidly is because they need every competent commander they can get - and he is undeniably competent, even if he runs a ship so loose the skipper of the infamous submarine USS Sea Tiger would look askance.
Please note that I am not intentionally disregarding any counsel, and they have been helpful with my decision making.
One way for me to avoid the discussion is to avoid the pathway that led to the question. Star Trek is fiction, and although the reader/viewer must suspend some disbelief for the sake of entertainment, that suspension cannot be broken to satisfy my own desires to tell a story.
But how often do military leadership get questioned for past actions and judgments? I', not wanting to write about an inquest where Kathryn is on trial, per se. But more of like a conference-call with a superior officer. The more I type the more I may be answering my question because I guess it would depend on the severity of the deed?
Depends on the service, and if the officer and their superior are graduates of their service academy. A lot of it is the, "it's not what you did, it's who you know" factor as to the level of scrutiny you're placed under.
Another variable is, "who is looking in?" If a politician has made inquiries then the magnifying glass may be a lot stronger than if it was an internal house keeping matter.
And sadly, there is the, "is it promotion time?" variable. The investigating officer may have an agenda that means the investigation could be intense...or it could gloss over certain details. Others who might profit from another's misery can chirp in with testimony or evidence from past incidents.
Today, it is best for an officer to assume that every single thing they do is archived and will be used against them at some point in their career...including, for example, getting drunk as a midshipman.
@ambassadormolari - Hell. Yes. Take THAT Section 31 Well, not really, but you know what I mean. I particularly liked the description of the nanite working. Very creepy.
@drajora - You know, that bothered me as well, but I must have ignored all of that. Still, it was a great tie in between the prompt and the entire game!
New LC, New LC, New LC, New LC, New LC, New LC, New LC, New LC, New LC, New LC, New LC, New LC, New LC, New LC, New LC, New LC, New LC, New LC, New LC, New LC, New LC, New LC, New LC!
WE NEED A NEW LC!
"A life is like a garden. Perfect moments can be had, but not preserved, except in memory. LLAP"
Comments
More like avoid. I'm thinking Kathryn would either be ordered to do so (and thus be the dutiful soldier) or would agree to the order even though it was inherently questionable. There, she would be innocently culpable ... maybe "culpable" is the wrong word ... Heck, she may have requested permission to do the act and top brass agreed!
I dunno. I may just "go with it". Keep in mind she spaced a Borg drone that was Orion to satisfy her vendetta
P.S. Hows that for DOOM...
I guess it depends on how you want to play it, and what repercussions you may wish to show, but I know you like handle Kathryn's life in a non-linear fashion :cool:
As worffan is wont to point out, Starfleet also has a history of seemingly letting politics drive the result of the legal system. In ST4, Kirk saves Earth for the third or fourth time which makes Starfleet look all kinds of good, so cashiering him would've been politically inconvenient. Likewise, the only way I can rationalize Worf's extradition hearing in "Rules of Engagement" being allowed to go as far as it did -- logically, Miss Vulcan Judge, only Starfleet JAG Corps has jurisdiction over actions taken by active duty Starfleet personnel in the conduct of their duties, not the Klingon legal system -- was that somebody upstairs was trying to throw Worf under the bus to curry favor with the Klingons and maybe get them to call off that frankly bloody stupid and completely pointless war.
And then there's that theory regarding why Janeway wasn't court-martialed, that being that it would've embarrassed Starfleet to have them spend three or so years building her up as a hero only to have to turn around and send her to prison for the rest of her natural frakking life (because the Federation presumably doesn't have the death penalty), so they kicked her upstairs and covered the whole thing up.
I went that route to deal with Eleya's oft-referenced tantrum at the Jenolan conference. It'd be out of character for her to take all the whitewashing and stupidity there lying down, so I couldn't have her just keep her mouth shut. So, she openly admits she should've gotten a bad conduct discharge for that, but she then proceeded to help save ESD and Qo'noS, including rescuing Shon from the Aquarius (because TRIBBLE Tuvok, the player ship is way closer during the death ride). Shon stuck his neck out for her and some of the dignitaries present agreed with her (and it helps that there's a Bajoran in the president's cabinet). Besides which a lot of Starfleet's reserves just got trashed so they couldn't afford to court-martial her (whatever her diplomatic shortcomings, she's a good soldier).
So they gave her a medal for bravery, put a reprimand in her file that means she'll never make admiral (not that she wants to), and packed her off to Deep Space 9 to get her out of the political line of fire until the yelling dies down. Basically the Bunny-Ears Lawyer in action. I also envision Command telling Tuvok not to invite Eleya the next time he holds a conference.
The STID situation is stupid, though. Not only did Alt!Kirk break the Prime Directive -- honestly, I don't have a problem with him trying to save that village, I have a problem with him doing it so incompetently that he got seen -- but he deliberately tried to cover it up with an equal level of incompetence. He fully deserved to be cashiered.
— Sabaton, "Great War"
Check out https://unitedfederationofpla.net/s/
But she's got someone fighting for her at Starfleet Command, so she's allowed to be an officially quasi-affiliated subcontractor.
As for D'trel, well, the Republic needs whoever it can get, and chronic depression is just fine if it comes with a side of ruthless combat pragmatism, canny tactics, and unflinching bravery.
One way for me to avoid the discussion is to avoid the pathway that led to the question. Star Trek is fiction, and although the reader/viewer must suspend some disbelief for the sake of entertainment, that suspension cannot be broken to satisfy my own desires to tell a story.
Depends on the service, and if the officer and their superior are graduates of their service academy. A lot of it is the, "it's not what you did, it's who you know" factor as to the level of scrutiny you're placed under.
Another variable is, "who is looking in?" If a politician has made inquiries then the magnifying glass may be a lot stronger than if it was an internal house keeping matter.
And sadly, there is the, "is it promotion time?" variable. The investigating officer may have an agenda that means the investigation could be intense...or it could gloss over certain details. Others who might profit from another's misery can chirp in with testimony or evidence from past incidents.
Today, it is best for an officer to assume that every single thing they do is archived and will be used against them at some point in their career...including, for example, getting drunk as a midshipman.
Member Access Denied Armada!
My forum single-issue of rage: Make the Proton Experimental Weapon go for subsystem targetting!
New entry is in here.
Not quite directly on the Prompt (#2), but it allowed me to rant a little at some things that have always bugged me about the Fed missions....
Enjoy.
@drajora - You know, that bothered me as well, but I must have ignored all of that. Still, it was a great tie in between the prompt and the entire game!
WE NEED A NEW LC!
-Leonard Nimoy, RIP