Anyone else feel this way? Que revamp concern

xblazex · September 2014

I posted this in the que revamp form but never got a dev response . Anyone else feel this is a possibility ?

Who wants to be on a team with someone who is being forced to be there to get the "good rewards" ?

Successfully completing an Advanced version of an event will reward you with even more Marks than Normal as well as Dilithium Ore. In addition, you will receive a package of Advanced Queue R&D materials, with a chance at getting some of the highly sought after Very Rare R&D materials.

novablastmkg wrote: »

Not somthing I am fond of . I am not found of the current elite system but then i am forced to do it for rewards . Now you have made it worse. You basically forcing people to go to the Advanced ques for the better rewards.

You should make the rewards the same in normals and Advanced

If you did that only people who "enjoyed " hard levels ( for reason i will always fail to understand) would go to them

With this your going to have people like me who despise them going in them becase its more efficient to farm and hating the experience . If enough players are like me Its going to ruin the experience for everyone eventually as people become more resentful of being forced to do something they don't enjoy.

generalklang · September 2014

I'm there to get stupid rep bits, and eventually crafting resources. I agree with you 100%. If there was any other way to get the gears and cogs and such required in *addition* to marks, I wouldn't go at call. Its the *only reason* I go.

I don't give one rat's backside about random loot generator loot other that what the vendor will give me for it...or that one inone hundred exchange worthy item. Frankly aas far as loot drops go, idvrather get EC and buy my own

rattler2 · September 2014

Eh... I'm probably gonna stick to the Advanced myself, as the only real incentive is better chance at VR mats, and maybe more DL. But considering I'm T5 Omega already... not really hurting for Dilithium.

rahmkota19 · September 2014

Do disagree with this.

I am not gonna be able to immediately take on the new elite, but I do fancy that advanced gives more rewards. Its simple really: if you want more stuff, you gotta work for it. Just like real life.
If you like to get, say, a 20k dilithium item without doing Advanced difficulty, you should not get payed for advanced difficulty. You'll get there, it'll just take more time.

Besides, advanced won't be that tough. Get a premade team (aka, get a good fleet), get ships with 5+k DPS (which is rather easy, even without purple XII) and you are done. Not hard at all. Consider this the "Normal" mode games come in, with Normal being Easy and Elite being Hard. All it'll take are some ships that can stand their ground in combat and captains who know what they are doing.

xblazex · September 2014

rahmkota19 wrote: »

Do disagree with this.

I am not gonna be able to immediately take on the new elite, but I do fancy that advanced gives more rewards. Its simple really: if you want more stuff, you gotta work for it. Just like real life.
If you like to get, say, a 20k dilithium item without doing Advanced difficulty, you should not get payed for advanced difficulty. You'll get there, it'll just take more time.

Besides, advanced won't be that tough. Get a premade team (aka, get a good fleet), get ships with 5+k DPS (which is rather easy, even without purple XII) and you are done. Not hard at all. Consider this the "Normal" mode games come in, with Normal being Easy and Elite being Hard. All it'll take are some ships that can stand their ground in combat and captains who know what they are doing.

Your forgetting this is a video game not work its supposed to be fun and enjoyable . Take bioware games i alway play them on normal or story mode. why anyone would want to play on max level is beyond me .

generalklang · September 2014

If there were alternate ways of getting the little rep bits and purple crafting mats, you'd never have to worry about getting in a bad team again. Hiding that TRIBBLE in STFs, bby definition, puts people who don't want to be there in your team.

rattler2 · September 2014

rahmkota19 wrote: »

Do disagree with this.

I am not gonna be able to immediately take on the new elite, but I do fancy that advanced gives more rewards. Its simple really: if you want more stuff, you gotta work for it. Just like real life.
If you like to get, say, a 20k dilithium item without doing Advanced difficulty, you should not get payed for advanced difficulty. You'll get there, it'll just take more time.

Besides, advanced won't be that tough. Get a premade team (aka, get a good fleet), get ships with 5+k DPS (which is rather easy, even without purple XII) and you are done. Not hard at all. Consider this the "Normal" mode games come in, with Normal being Easy and Elite being Hard. All it'll take are some ships that can stand their ground in combat and captains who know what they are doing.

Actually... Advanced is going to be the CURRENT Elite. The new Elite is going to be harder than that. I don't think anything's gonna chance outside of a name change on that.

farmallm · September 2014

Your not really being forced. As all this is optional. However many games are like this. WoW had 2 levels of regular dungeons to play in. Then they had 2 levels of Raids where you had lot harder matches and more people to work with. And most Raids had the story of killing the final current boss or something added to the story along the way. Which I missed out on since I didn't do raids.

The new Elite was made to answer the call for the ones wanting more challenge. So basically if you or team not good enough. Don't be in it. I would never pug the new Elite, so its mostly for your friends/fleet that you can count on getting it done. As this is what they keep stressing to us.

If you want that stuff, you need to be ready to do what it takes. As this separates the causals to the serious players. I would love to have stuff on the game as well. But I settled that I won't have it due to reasons. That is how it is on games.

generalklang · September 2014

farmallm wrote: »

Your not really being forced. As all this is optional. However many games are like this. WoW had 2 levels of regular dungeons to play in. Then they had 2 levels of Raids where you had lot harder matches and more people to work with. And most Raids had the story of killing the final current boss or something added to the story along the way. Which I missed out on since I didn't do raids.

The new Elite was made to answer the call for the ones wanting more challenge. So basically if you or team not good enough. Don't be in it. I would never pug the new Elite, so its mostly for your friends/fleet that you can count on getting it done. As this is what they keep stressing to us.

If you want that stuff, you need to be ready to do what it takes. As this separates the causals to the serious players. I would love to have stuff on the game as well. But I settled that I won't have it due to reasons. That is how it is on games.

This, is what we call an "elitist" attitude.

Walling the rep gear and crafting mats behind an uber dood wall is moronic.

No one gives a TRIBBLE about loot drops. Its rep bits, and crafting mats.

We're not all Uber goober elitists, but we'll get those bits, if it takes 1000 team wipes.

When you rant about it when it inevitably happens, remember to blame Cryptic for putting you in that situation, and not the casual players for being forced into the situation.

rattler2 · September 2014

Its not a wall. People will still be able to get the mats and Marks needed for rep stuff. Its just like a F2P player getting c-store stuff. Takes time. Sure I won't be getting as many of the mats, but I'll STILL be getting the mats. Elite just has a higher chance of dropping the VR mats than advanced.

The way I see it... the Advanced chances are not going to change from the current Elite.

ladymyajha · September 2014

I kind of agree with the OP and kind of don't.

Since most of the stuff can be traded crafters can should be able to go onto the exchange and buy the crud they need. The problem is, that because there's such a glut of EC in the game, inflation rates are so horrible that if you're a new player you're then forced to do advanced stuff just to get the crafting stuff. I'm not new by any strech of the imagination, but I can see the pain when I run up a new character, get to level 50, want to start on stuff, and discover that anything and everything that is even remotely useful in STO costs more then the GNP of Risa.

The other issue where I agree with the OP is that even if you do grind out the advances and elites there's not guarentee that you'll get the item you want. You're playing the standard Cryptic Gambling System where everything is a random and very unlikely chance you'll get the item you want. And when you finally do get the item you want you're in another Gambling chance that maybe you'll only get a blue item and not a purple or gold.

There's too much gambling going on, and forcing people to play a certain playstyle, while ignoring the fact that not everyone cares about their e-peen and only want to craft or to *gasp* explore.

farmallm · September 2014

generalklang wrote: »

This, is what we call an "elitist" attitude.

Walling the rep gear and crafting mats behind an uber dood wall is moronic.

No one gives a TRIBBLE about loot drops. Its rep bits, and crafting mats.

We're not all Uber goober elitists, but we'll get those bits, if it takes 1000 team wipes.

When you rant about it when it inevitably happens, remember to blame Cryptic for putting you in that situation, and not the casual players for being forced into the situation.

I'm far from being an "Elitist" never was in game. Even now I don't have all the top end gear and won't even be close. I hadn't done the STFs or all the Reps either. A true Elitist has top gear, only go in certain groups. If you don't meet their expectations your out. Then later rages out on the Vents cause something goes wrong. Which none of that is even close to who I am.

What I was saying is somethings are just out of reach for players. I'm content I won't hit that level or have it. So I just make do with what I have and just have fun. That is just how some games are. If someone is wiling to have some of those things. Then they play to the point of having it. Hope this explains it better, since you didn't catch it.

farmallm · September 2014

ladymyajha wrote: »

The other issue where I agree with the OP is that even if you do grind out the advances and elites there's not guarentee that you'll get the item you want. You're playing the standard Cryptic Gambling System where everything is a random and very unlikely chance you'll get the item you want. And when you finally do get the item you want you're in another Gambling chance that maybe you'll only get a blue item and not a purple or gold.

There's too much gambling going on, and forcing people to play a certain playstyle, while ignoring the fact that not everyone cares about their e-peen and only want to craft or to *gasp* explore.

Most games are like this. Even ones with a boss that contains certain loot pool. I remember doing a dungeon on WoW over 2 dozen times for a darn loot item. Then someone else got it, and that started another round of many runs for the darn thing. They do that to keep you busy and keep playing to get it. IF your that determined to get it. Its part of their design.

rattler2 · September 2014

It was kinda like that in the past before Season 7 with the tech drops. You wanted a specific piece of MACO or Omega mk XII gear? You had to run a specific STF and hope you get the tech drop for it.

ladymyajha · September 2014

farmallm wrote: »

Most games are like this. Even ones with a boss that contains certain loot pool. I remember doing a dungeon on WoW over 2 dozen times for a darn loot item. Then someone else got it, and that started another round of many runs for the darn thing. They do that to keep you busy and keep playing to get it. IF your that determined to get it. Its part of their design.

No offense to you, so please don't take it as a personal attack, but I hate the answer "most games are like this, so STO needs to be like this too".

I understand randomness, and I'm all for it to a degree, but when there's a random element every single step of the way, it becomes tedious and what makes people frustrated and makes players not want to play.

generalklang · September 2014

ladymyajha wrote: »

No offense to you, so please don't take it as a personal attack, but I hate the answer "most games are like this, so STO needs to be like this too".

I understand randomness, and I'm all for it to a degree, but when there's a random element every single step of the way, it becomes tedious and what makes people frustrated and makes players not want to play.

Ditto.

10/char

havokreign · September 2014

The multitudes of tedium are there to make micro purchases provocative.

ladymyajha · September 2014

havokreign wrote: »

The multitudes of tedium are there to make micro purchases provocative.

Yeah I know, it's PWE, and compared to most PWE games, the amount of micro purchases you have to make in order just to play the game properly is slim. It's still annoying and tedious that I can spend a ton of zen and not get the crafting item I want because of the Gambling system.

I'd be less upset with the micro purchases if I knew that what I was buying was going to give me the crafting part I needed, and not also a random gambling chance with a good chance I won't get the part I need, even though I paid them money.

If they left the "random chance" on the drops, and made the zen purchases a "guarentee" it wouldn't be bad. Now it's basically the same. Time and hope or money and hope.

farmallm · September 2014

ladymyajha wrote: »

No offense to you, so please don't take it as a personal attack, but I hate the answer "most games are like this, so STO needs to be like this too".

I understand randomness, and I'm all for it to a degree, but when there's a random element every single step of the way, it becomes tedious and what makes people frustrated and makes players not want to play.

I don't see it as an attack. I agree as well. It does make people frustrated. This is one reason why I quit playing WoW. I got burned out from the dungeons, and people taking loot cause of some random dice roll. And I had to keep doing that place. However I'm sure the other person spent many trips in there as well. Due to this is why I don't do STF/or group action now on STO. Just burned out.

Even some consul games are like this as they do it. To keep the person playing. I remember watching a coworker play his playstation game. A certain boss dropped an item, and he had to kill it like 20 times before it dropped. So he had it saved at the boss. If item didn't drop, restart game, and did it again, and again.

Its sad, but true. The developers do it for a reason. Just like why some people are getting burned out on the Rep Grinds. Which is why I only do certain Rep Grinds. However, its to keep players playing and busy until more stuff comes out. Its not their fault players burn through content in a matter of days and want more. Where the average player takes months to go through.

generalklang · September 2014

havokreign wrote: »

The multitudes of tedium are there to make micro purchases provocative.

If I could micro purchase the little rep gears and cogs for rep gear (and undine marks as they're craptastic to get) I'd already be buying them...and a bonus pack of the DR marks/ gears and cogs for DR rep as well

havokreign · September 2014

The new crafting setup is the best example. Completely random, mostly worthless procs. Spend all that dili/mats to get up to Mk XIV 'elite' and bam, you reroll PvPRes or some garbage.

Always makes me think of older P2W games, where you have to buy crafting 'gems' to increase your chances at a +7 or +8, knowing full well it's going to cost you that gem.

But then the RNG kicks in and you lose your damned Raider's Twin Sword anyway.

Then it's back to grinding raids to RNG for parts all over again.

stf65 · September 2014

i play elite content because i want to challenge myself. i couldn't care less about the loot drops. i'm already godly powerful. there's a lot of us who find this game to be childish in difficulty. we sleep through the stfs and other 'challenging' content. most teams i'm on have done stfs in well under 5 minutes, and ce too. there's some vids where people are doing ce in under 2 minutes. there's a huge disparity in player skill level around here, and there needs to be some content levels that give the big boys some challenge. everything in the game can't be for the lowest common denominator. i'm tired of watching everything get nerfed just because some casual cries fowl. if you can't play on advanced you don't deserve the rewards.

generalklang · September 2014

stf65 wrote: »

i play elite content because i want to challenge myself. i couldn't care less about the loot drops. i'm already godly powerful. there's a lot of us who find this game to be childish in difficulty. we sleep through the stfs and other 'challenging' content. most teams i'm on have done stfs in well under 5 minutes, and ce too. there's some vids where people are doing ce in under 2 minutes. there's a huge disparity in player skill level around here, and there needs to be some content levels that give the big boys some challenge. everything in the game can't be for the lowest common denominator. i'm tired of watching everything get nerfed just because some casual cries fowl. if you can't play on advanced you don't deserve the rewards.

I thought I muted the 30k DPs channel...

Stupid chat settings

stf65 · September 2014

generalklang wrote: »

I thought I muted the 30k DPs channel...

Stupid chat settings

you don't need to be in 30k. 6k can get you through an estf or ce with ease. unfortunately too many can't even get to 6k. and that doesn't change the fact that i pay as much as you and so deserve as much of a challenge.

rinkster · September 2014

Once the new difficulties are released to holodeck, I look forward to running through the difficulties...normal, advanced, elite.

And then I'll settle for now where i feel most comfortable.

I'm no STO uber ship builder, nor am i ridiculously over-geared, but on my mains I've not really had any issue with elite content for over a year.

Rather glad that might change.

prierin · September 2014

I am a big fan of work harder, get better rewards. If there is no incentive to have different difficulty settings then why have them there at all?

I currently play on elite because I enjoy the PvE challenge and, to a degree, there are better drops. I dont know that I am 100% on making the optional objectives mandatory but if there is substantial reward bonuses for doing so then I say go for it.

generalklang · September 2014

prierin wrote: »

I am a big fan of work harder, get better rewards. If there is no incentive to have different difficulty settings then why have them there at all?

I currently play on elite because I enjoy the PvE challenge and, to a degree, there are better drops. I dont know that I am 100% on making the optional objectives mandatory but if there is substantial reward bonuses for doing so then I say go for it.

And yet, the gears and cogs for several reps are hiding behind elite sSTFs. This is standard fare, not Uber gear. Much like leveling your toon, this is a progression, not a raid type thing.

stf65 · September 2014

generalklang wrote: »

And yet, the gears and cogs for several reps are hiding behind elite sSTFs. This is standard fare, not Uber gear. Much like leveling your toon, this is a progression, not a raid type thing.

you still needed the bnps to get the best gear. it's why people did elite stfs rather then normals. so it wasn't much different then raiding because you still got a random number of bnps.

ashkrik23 · September 2014

novablastmkg wrote: »

I posted this in the que revamp form but never got a dev response . Anyone else feel this is a possibility ?

Who wants to be on a team with someone who is being forced to be there to get the "good rewards" ?

No. You want higher rewards, you beat the higher modes like everyone else.

lystent · September 2014

novablastmkg wrote: »

Who wants to be on a team with someone who is being forced to be there to get the "good rewards" ?

Somebody... like me?! Mua ha haa!

On another note, this is already happening.

jslyn · September 2014

Sadly, I think that the new Elites are the only way to get stuff needed to make Upgrade Tokens. That means that I will have to play them even though I am not that great.

Anyone else feel this way? Que revamp concern

Comments