Antonio I dont even care about PM. What has me annoyed is the constant addition of MORE. They never come up with a decent combat model, they just KEEP ADDING MORE TO THE JENGA STACK and wondering why it keeps falling apart. Play a little game here, come up with all the unique power pools that let you buff exotic damage:
People complaining about PM actually have a legitimate point. I'm complaining about the fact we have a ~dozen ways to buff things and the system is out of control and fundamentally broken. And in order to fix it, they would have to scrap it all and start over with a deliberate model that was accessible and balanced in a holistic way. Something that cant be fixed wont be fixed.
I followed the OP's lead and logged in tonight just to see whats what.
All I can say is I will not be logging in again anytime soon, what the hell happened is beyond me, how did it get to this mess and people be okay with it ? And I thought spawn camping in Kerrat was eliminated ?
My advice to anybody thinking of returning, well, just don't bother it is actually getting worse !
the so called kerrat omnispawn was eliminated, which is to say that when the map resets players don't all spawn in a giant clump but at various pre-defined locations which are semi-random. But feds still spawn on the fed side, and klinks still spawn on the klink side, so a fed can boost over there and catch you if you aren't paying attention, or join midway through or respawn or whatever. The klinks do the same to the feds.
Precisely why PvP, F2P, and MMO should never be in the same sentence. Together, they are incompatible. STO PvP is never something to be taken seriously in any respect because the player gets the shaft and there is no balance.
Balance is needed for a skill and strategy based pvp game. In the video of the panda (known established cheaters) vs the hobos the first 10-15 minutes of the video was the dude hopping onto the exchange and buying all the clickies and shinies needed to compete in the "meta".
Pretty muchs sums it up there. Go buy stuff that just came out in the last patch that is more OP than the last, equip, hop on TS with your little buddies and have a e-peen circle jerk, then post in forums to brag, repeat as needed.
:rolleyes:
PvP queues should just be removed from this game until Cryptic wants to introduce a completely revamped pvp system, and they can throw that one in the trash and make a new one.
Nice post....
I guess everyone is know in on the secret. In order to compete in STO PvP you have to make sure you buy enough batteries so you don't run out. I am sure glad those where added to the game this week.
Shame on us for expecting hobos to put up a fight that wouldn't end in the first 10min. If they had only died faster we could have saved 100s of EC on those extra bats. lol
Really though should people stop taking things so serious all the time... yes you have a valid point there. Does change make the game bad though... no not really. There have been very few truly over powered releases in this game. It always makes me wonder what games people have played previously. I get the feeling STO is a lot of peoples very first MMO.
Antonio I dont even care about PM. What has me annoyed is the constant addition of MORE. They never come up with a decent combat model, they just KEEP ADDING MORE TO THE JENGA STACK and wondering why it keeps falling apart. Play a little game here, come up with all the unique power pools that let you buff exotic damage:
People complaining about PM actually have a legitimate point. I'm complaining about the fact we have a ~dozen ways to buff things and the system is out of control and fundamentally broken. And in order to fix it, they would have to scrap it all and start over with a deliberate model that was accessible and balanced in a holistic way. Something that cant be fixed wont be fixed.
I can understand that point... and I would love Cryptic to allow one of there actually intelligent devs the opportunity to sit down and revamp it completely. (not just exotic) lets be honest weapon dmg is completely borked as well... there is no reason for 10 gear set bonuses all boosting Energy weapon dmg to ALL have different math attached to them. (really one set is equal to 1.5 Tac consoles and another is = to .3... because they are obviously calculating things different, as the numbers claimed on the items are
IMO the game needs more variety in DMG options... NEXT I really really really hope they do some form of trait that will honestly boost Engi dmg at the expensive of something that would keep them from being super heal tanks at the same time. (Perhaps a trait or even boff that would turn MW into a dmg buff... even allowing the Engi trait that resets it to still function)
I said along time ago the game would be balanced at some point by saturation. Release so many crazy good boffs for instance that people have to start making hard decisions.... same thing with traits. The change to rep has made that a reality as well. (as long as Cryptic doesn't keep adding more and more trait and boff slots ect for us anyway).
I think traits are fairly well saturated I know I have started to not use my Rom racial trait on my rom toons so I could slot some others now. Boffs are also at a point where there are so many good options that you simply can't run everything you want even with 6.
In any event I completely understand your point... and I agree some people are just frustrated. I do think some people though are just QQy in general when ever there super duper "finished" tac builds are usurped in anyway. They complain about Scies doing dmg... they complain because X or Y ship is as good as there 3 year old bug ship... they get upset that X or Y weapon isn't the best anymore or a new weapon type is better. It all makes me laugh a bit because its the nature of any MMO. The developers are always releasing new carrots to chase. I don't mean it in a mean way but if your not in for the carrot chase... a MMO isn't really the game for you. (I mean in general there not you specificly Urs)
Just to be clear... Pandas doesn't run 5 man sci captain nor 5 man sci ship teams.
Our teams are almost always 3 sci 2 tac... which has been standard now for what 2 years.
Have we chanaged our sci and tac buidls... well ya we have kept current. We took a break form PvP (some from the game) for a bit. We came back and realized mostly our same stuff was fine... we did adapt to changes. Sure why would we not.
I defend the PM trait because its fine. I would have done it a bit different but its not my game. What they changed did what they had set out to do with it IMO. Just like changes to Overload did exactly what they wanted it to do.
Really if you think 5 Science ships are the key to vicotry by all means put together that team... I'm sure we could setup a game for you.
Apparently we faced such a sad panda team which were focused on inflicting pure hull damage with 5 sci a couple of days ago. Mindsharp already posted it in the PartGen thread.
But he is right every imaginable team composition can be countered, there is and there will never be "an invincible team setup". We lost that one, it is a tough match to fight 5 sci dealing constant suppression damage and knowing how to control the opposing team. With 5 sci they have sufficient nukes available to neutralize the opponet's APA's aswell as to assist their own assaults with them at once which naz and co. implemented very well and coordinated in the end. It was definetly surpising the manner how they could dish out this constant damage on us.
By all means that doesnt mean that it wouldnt be counterable at all. There are multiple ways to prevent sci's from nuking off alphas, there are simple possibilities to counter and to resist PrtGen damage and there are also tactics in order to score kills without APA, otherwise we wouldnt have been able to score 6 kills on 5 cc/healers without having the opportunity to run alpha.
It is always a risk to face an unusual team composition in public arena queues for which you are not prepared, it cannot be avoided since everyone can run whatever they want to on their ships and teams. It doesnt matter if there are 5 sci, 5 engies or 5 tacs on the opposing side. There is no clear preset of rules appllied for the arena because folks cannot be forced to run something specific in favor of other pvpers to make things easier. If those guys, who complained about such setups, PM traits or whatever, are only willing to run a game with rules they should arrange private challenges and agree on a predefined set of rules such as the NO BS rules instead of qqing all day long about teams running unfair setups like these PvP-Messiahs trying to enforce rules for public arena queue or attempting to pass peace treaties or agreements in Ker'rat.. xD
They simply have to deal with it and look for a proper counter if they do not want to engage certain team setups anymore.
Good post hannibal. I agree with you completely. I wasn't around when they where running 5 sci... testing it out I guess. I know we have been running plenty of strange setups and many of us have been working on multiple project ships. As everyone has... honestly seen lots of interesting ship builds from good players the last little bit.
At least some of the recent changes and the upcoming ones have more people thinking of new ways to do things.
The PvP was starting to get pretty darn stale which I think was part of the reason so many of our friends have taken breaks or moved on the last year or two.
Now if only they would add some interesting triats aimed at making engi multi role.
I think if everyone comes at it with a positive attitude, the delta expansion could see some really interesting team builds... with new ships skills and synergies. (Lets just hope there is nothing completely game breaking right away cause they will take forever to fix it)
Good post hannibal. I agree with you completely. I wasn't around when they where running 5 sci... testing it out I guess. I know we have been running plenty of strange setups and many of us have been working on multiple project ships. As everyone has... honestly seen lots of interesting ship builds from good players the last little bit.
At least some of the recent changes and the upcoming ones have more people thinking of new ways to do things.
The PvP was starting to get pretty darn stale which I think was part of the reason so many of our friends have taken breaks or moved on the last year or two.
Now if only they would add some interesting triats aimed at making engi multi role.
I think if everyone comes at it with a positive attitude, the delta expansion could see some really interesting team builds... with new ships skills and synergies. (Lets just hope there is nothing completely game breaking right away cause they will take forever to fix it)
i can fully agree to that too, it would definetely be interesting to see engies back serving a more meaningful role in order to increase the variety of possible team configurations further, especially in premade pvp like in earlier days.
you are right, it might be possible that the pvp gameplay will be completely changing with the upcoming expansion, especially the new boff class might impact pvp significantly and roll the dice newly for every pvper out there.
Sure, the 5-man sci team may have been used for testing purposes in arena, i mean the arena is also designed for checking out new strategies or team combinations which most of the other pvp-fleets would do aswell. Sometimes we also run 5 tacs in arena queue for lolz. :P
I'm humbling requesting a video of this please... Pretty please.
I'm not doubting you in the least, but I genuinely enjoy watching premades fight each other.
unfortunately, I have to disappoint you deokkent, we didnt utilize Fraps in that match since it was a random encounter in the arena queue. However, it has only been recorded on hilberts leaderboard and via combat tracker.
unfortunately, I have to disappoint you deokkent, we didnt utilize Fraps in that match since it was a random encounter in the arena queue. However, it has only been recorded on hilberts leaderboard and via combat tracker.
Once upon a time, it was possible to coach a pug team, on the fly, to fight a premade, with varying degrees of success, and paper over non-critical weaknesses in the group with your own abilities. Sure, I wouldn't always win. In fact, I'm sure I mostly lost. But I could put up a fight, and sometimes I would win.
That day has long passed.
I, personally, no longer find pvp all that fun now that the bar to participation is so much higher.
Once upon a time, it was possible to coach a pug team, on the fly, to fight a premade, with varying degrees of success, and paper over non-critical weaknesses in the group with your own abilities. Sure, I wouldn't always win. In fact, I'm sure I mostly lost. But I could put up a fight, and sometimes I would win.
That day has long passed.
I, personally, no longer find pvp all that fun now that the bar to participation is so much higher.
Well, the solo duo queu still works to an extent on this.
However the problem is that this game has pushed casual pvpers away and only a few remain and those the hardcore ones. This makes it even harder for casual players to get into pvp. Sad really
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]-32nd Vipers- PvP Team
Nothing is impossible to him who would try.... except getting cryptic to care about pvp.
All these fed particle gen teams spamming FBP and TBR aren't much of a threat, never have a problem when running into them and using a team with a conventional setup of escorts and sci ships. Its just annoying and boring really, I would rather play against regular teams instead of these spammers.
I haven't played much lately because of that, maybe once or twice a week now.
I followed the OP's lead and logged in tonight just to see whats what.
All I can say is I will not be logging in again anytime soon, what the hell happened is beyond me, how did it get to this mess and people be okay with it ? And I thought spawn camping in Kerrat was eliminated ?
My advice to anybody thinking of returning, well, just don't bother it is actually getting worse !
I think we do it more now, I am so disgusted and bored of the way feds play lately with all this particle gen spam might as well camp them to punish them for it, maybe they will go away and make room for a normal escort player or change builds
Gone are the days of just grabbing your favorite ship and setup and just hitting the queues for fun.
Now it involves top gear top ships all the right rep's getting a team together and having voice communication. Then you need all the consumables and the strategy your team will employ !
THIS is the problem with PvP it just isnt FUN anymore !!!!!!!
Gone are the days of just grabbing your favorite ship and setup and just hitting the queues for fun.
Now it involves top gear top ships all the right rep's getting a team together and having voice communication. Then you need all the consumables and the strategy your team will employ !
Its been that way for a while
THIS is the problem with PvP it just isnt FUN anymore !!!!!!!
Solo queue is still fun for brawling, when people dont bring premade doubles to combo the randoms
Comments
People complaining about PM actually have a legitimate point. I'm complaining about the fact we have a ~dozen ways to buff things and the system is out of control and fundamentally broken. And in order to fix it, they would have to scrap it all and start over with a deliberate model that was accessible and balanced in a holistic way. Something that cant be fixed wont be fixed.
* forgot and adding to the list
All I can say is I will not be logging in again anytime soon, what the hell happened is beyond me, how did it get to this mess and people be okay with it ? And I thought spawn camping in Kerrat was eliminated ?
My advice to anybody thinking of returning, well, just don't bother it is actually getting worse !
Nice post....
I guess everyone is know in on the secret. In order to compete in STO PvP you have to make sure you buy enough batteries so you don't run out. I am sure glad those where added to the game this week.
Shame on us for expecting hobos to put up a fight that wouldn't end in the first 10min. If they had only died faster we could have saved 100s of EC on those extra bats. lol
Really though should people stop taking things so serious all the time... yes you have a valid point there. Does change make the game bad though... no not really. There have been very few truly over powered releases in this game. It always makes me wonder what games people have played previously. I get the feeling STO is a lot of peoples very first MMO.
I can understand that point... and I would love Cryptic to allow one of there actually intelligent devs the opportunity to sit down and revamp it completely. (not just exotic) lets be honest weapon dmg is completely borked as well... there is no reason for 10 gear set bonuses all boosting Energy weapon dmg to ALL have different math attached to them. (really one set is equal to 1.5 Tac consoles and another is = to .3... because they are obviously calculating things different, as the numbers claimed on the items are
IMO the game needs more variety in DMG options... NEXT I really really really hope they do some form of trait that will honestly boost Engi dmg at the expensive of something that would keep them from being super heal tanks at the same time. (Perhaps a trait or even boff that would turn MW into a dmg buff... even allowing the Engi trait that resets it to still function)
I said along time ago the game would be balanced at some point by saturation. Release so many crazy good boffs for instance that people have to start making hard decisions.... same thing with traits. The change to rep has made that a reality as well. (as long as Cryptic doesn't keep adding more and more trait and boff slots ect for us anyway).
I think traits are fairly well saturated I know I have started to not use my Rom racial trait on my rom toons so I could slot some others now. Boffs are also at a point where there are so many good options that you simply can't run everything you want even with 6.
In any event I completely understand your point... and I agree some people are just frustrated. I do think some people though are just QQy in general when ever there super duper "finished" tac builds are usurped in anyway. They complain about Scies doing dmg... they complain because X or Y ship is as good as there 3 year old bug ship... they get upset that X or Y weapon isn't the best anymore or a new weapon type is better. It all makes me laugh a bit because its the nature of any MMO. The developers are always releasing new carrots to chase. I don't mean it in a mean way but if your not in for the carrot chase... a MMO isn't really the game for you. (I mean in general there not you specificly Urs)
Apparently we faced such a sad panda team which were focused on inflicting pure hull damage with 5 sci a couple of days ago. Mindsharp already posted it in the PartGen thread.
But he is right every imaginable team composition can be countered, there is and there will never be "an invincible team setup". We lost that one, it is a tough match to fight 5 sci dealing constant suppression damage and knowing how to control the opposing team. With 5 sci they have sufficient nukes available to neutralize the opponet's APA's aswell as to assist their own assaults with them at once which naz and co. implemented very well and coordinated in the end. It was definetly surpising the manner how they could dish out this constant damage on us.
By all means that doesnt mean that it wouldnt be counterable at all. There are multiple ways to prevent sci's from nuking off alphas, there are simple possibilities to counter and to resist PrtGen damage and there are also tactics in order to score kills without APA, otherwise we wouldnt have been able to score 6 kills on 5 cc/healers without having the opportunity to run alpha.
It is always a risk to face an unusual team composition in public arena queues for which you are not prepared, it cannot be avoided since everyone can run whatever they want to on their ships and teams. It doesnt matter if there are 5 sci, 5 engies or 5 tacs on the opposing side. There is no clear preset of rules appllied for the arena because folks cannot be forced to run something specific in favor of other pvpers to make things easier. If those guys, who complained about such setups, PM traits or whatever, are only willing to run a game with rules they should arrange private challenges and agree on a predefined set of rules such as the NO BS rules instead of qqing all day long about teams running unfair setups like these PvP-Messiahs trying to enforce rules for public arena queue or attempting to pass peace treaties or agreements in Ker'rat.. xD
They simply have to deal with it and look for a proper counter if they do not want to engage certain team setups anymore.
-=Hannibal - Inner Circle PvP-Department=-
Hannibal's YouTube PvP-channel (under construction)
More Inner Circle PvP-Action worth watching from: Hank, Mira Theng and Zimbilimbim
At least some of the recent changes and the upcoming ones have more people thinking of new ways to do things.
The PvP was starting to get pretty darn stale which I think was part of the reason so many of our friends have taken breaks or moved on the last year or two.
Now if only they would add some interesting triats aimed at making engi multi role.
I think if everyone comes at it with a positive attitude, the delta expansion could see some really interesting team builds... with new ships skills and synergies. (Lets just hope there is nothing completely game breaking right away cause they will take forever to fix it)
i can fully agree to that too, it would definetely be interesting to see engies back serving a more meaningful role in order to increase the variety of possible team configurations further, especially in premade pvp like in earlier days.
you are right, it might be possible that the pvp gameplay will be completely changing with the upcoming expansion, especially the new boff class might impact pvp significantly and roll the dice newly for every pvper out there.
Sure, the 5-man sci team may have been used for testing purposes in arena, i mean the arena is also designed for checking out new strategies or team combinations which most of the other pvp-fleets would do aswell. Sometimes we also run 5 tacs in arena queue for lolz. :P
-=Hannibal - Inner Circle PvP-Department=-
Hannibal's YouTube PvP-channel (under construction)
More Inner Circle PvP-Action worth watching from: Hank, Mira Theng and Zimbilimbim
unfortunately, I have to disappoint you deokkent, we didnt utilize Fraps in that match since it was a random encounter in the arena queue. However, it has only been recorded on hilberts leaderboard and via combat tracker.
-=Hannibal - Inner Circle PvP-Department=-
Hannibal's YouTube PvP-channel (under construction)
More Inner Circle PvP-Action worth watching from: Hank, Mira Theng and Zimbilimbim
http://hilbertguide.com/leaderboard/encounter.php?id=12220
http://i.imgur.com/8xrBYnE.png
That day has long passed.
I, personally, no longer find pvp all that fun now that the bar to participation is so much higher.
Well, the solo duo queu still works to an extent on this.
However the problem is that this game has pushed casual pvpers away and only a few remain and those the hardcore ones. This makes it even harder for casual players to get into pvp. Sad really
Nothing is impossible to him who would try.... except getting cryptic to care about pvp.
I haven't played much lately because of that, maybe once or twice a week now.
I think we do it more now, I am so disgusted and bored of the way feds play lately with all this particle gen spam might as well camp them to punish them for it, maybe they will go away and make room for a normal escort player or change builds
Not all feds, some of us are still capable of doing other things.
Now it involves top gear top ships all the right rep's getting a team together and having voice communication. Then you need all the consumables and the strategy your team will employ !
THIS is the problem with PvP it just isnt FUN anymore !!!!!!!
We were doing this a lot longer than Emoe was matey.Just weren't vocal about it.
Solo queue is still fun for brawling, when people dont bring premade doubles to combo the randoms