Since the new devblog mentions that the consoles of the Intel ships can also be equipped on the fleet versions of the ships I guess T5U is going to be a stillbirth. T6 ships already get an additional lieutenant-commander power where T5 gets a console slot. Anything that makes T6 even better will make T5U even more obsolete.
Since the new devblog mentions that the consoles of the Intel ships can also be equipped on the fleet versions of the ships I guess T5U is going to be a stillbirth. T6 ships already get an additional lieutenant-commander power where T5 gets a console slot. Anything that makes T6 even better will make T5U even more obsolete.
Fleet T5U is already what I'm talking about. Normal T5U doesn't have more console slots than T6.
Dear Mister Totally-Not-A-Cryptic-Shill,
Note that T5Us will have more hull strength than a T6 (and by logic, a T5U Fleet will have more HP than a Fleet T6), plus they get an extra console slot with the upgrade. The T6's Intell officer could pretty much be regarded as a "living extra console", and from looking at it's powers, they seem pretty feeble compared to a T5's ability to have an 11th console.
As I said from the beginning, these ships in my opinion aren't better. Just different.
But if you have a good T5 already set up, you know where all the buttons are and you know when to use them in the right way for maximum effect, an upgraded T5U is the way to go.
Please try to avoid being sucked in by the latest "shiny new thing". I found that out the hard way after dumping 5K for the Dyson Fed 3-set but eventually found myself going back to flying my Wells for the simple fact that it just works better for me.
Call me old-fashioned, but for me it's like I'd rather drive a '67 Shelby Mustang over the latest Lamborghini. Sometimes, old-school is better.
This is the most important factor in the games evolution right now. You can argue all you want about how the ships will match up, but the truth is that the potential of fleet tier 6 is higher than the potential of tier 5u. So far all we have seen lost for the gain in new built in abilities is some health, 2 cruiser commands, or science ship scanning. Add in the new boffs, an extra boff ability, access to special traits, and you have a recipe for the death of all our favorite ships in the eyes of the gear end game IMO.
I just don't get Cryptic, we're hearing about how well the game is doing in many places, they're constantly hiring, and they're the biggest source of prime trek in the world. If they're doing so well they shouldn't need to shaft the player base like this, the devs can sound like real a-holes sometimes, but I have a hard time believing their ego could motivate an attempt to completely over run the current ship family. What the hell is going on?
Seems the only "safe" ship to fly is a lockbox/lobi ship -- since Cryptic will never kill their gamblebox income. C-store customers are, however, fair game. I wouldn't bother with paying for T5U upgrades at this point.
And you'll keep thinking that no matter how equal they are... :rolleyes:
They are not equal... Then they would be the same ships.
T5 ships will have some advantages, T6 will have others... They are on-par... Equally competitive... In fact we should assume that the T5-U ships are superior to the T6 ones.
Saying they are equal is just wrong, because you know this is not true... I am disappointed in you Orangeitis...
Don't look silly... Don't call it the "Z-Store/Zen Store"...
Having just listened to the Priority one podcast a lot of this thread should be in the PvP forum. The leveling system was balanced for dilithium ships using mk x white equipment so the only people who will be disadvantaged are though who PvP and those who wish to do the Elite queues. All ships will still be usable come DR so there is no rush to buy or upgrade ships apparently.
They are not equal... Then they would be the same ships.
T5 ships will have some advantages, T6 will have others... They are on-par... Equally competitive... In fact we should assume that the T5-U ships are superior to the T6 ones.
Saying they are equal is just wrong, because you know this is not true... I am disappointed in you Orangeitis...
No, you're misinterpreting my usage of the word "equal". Equality doesn't imply similarity in every field. Thing A can be both equal and opposite to Thing B for instance. And besides, I never claimed that anything is equal. Please don't put words in my mouth.
No, you're misinterpreting my usage of the word "equal". Equality doesn't imply similarity in every field. Thing A can be both equal and opposite to Thing B for instance. And besides, I never claimed that anything is equal. Please don't put words in my mouth.
Eww... I would never put my fingers in your mouth... You'd just bite them off...
I simply expected you to be more precise in your description of the issue at had... Was disappointed that you did not... Still am.
Don't look silly... Don't call it the "Z-Store/Zen Store"...
Eww... I would never put my fingers in your mouth... You'd just bite them off...
I simply expected you to be more precise in your description of the issue at had... Was disappointed that you did not... Still am.
Is it worth it any more though? People in this forum seem hell-bent on condemning their own ships as secondary to tier 6. They've never listened to reasoning before. What makes you think they'll start now?
There's just a certain amount of convincing I attempt before I just give up and :rolleyes: at them. If they give me a reason to think I'm not wasting my time, then I might rethink my position. But merely speaking from emotion instead of asking honest, inquisitive questions are not the way to accomplish that.
Is it worth it any more though? People in this forum seem hell-bent on condemning their own ships as secondary to tier 6. They've never listened to reasoning before. What makes you think they'll start now?
There's just a certain amount of convincing I attempt before I just give up and :rolleyes: at them. If they give me a reason to think I'm not wasting my time, then I might rethink my position. But merely speaking from emotion instead of asking honest, inquisitive questions are not the way to accomplish that.
Hey... at least I am putting effort into sounding positive, right?
Don't look silly... Don't call it the "Z-Store/Zen Store"...
I simply expected you to be more precise in your description of the issue at had... Was disappointed that you did not... Still am.
Feels like a rather sizeable nitpick to me. Take a look at the dictionary
You'll see there's only 1 instance mentioned in which 'equal' actually means 'the same.' The way orangeitis used it was 100% correct, and would fall under definition 2) "like or alike in quantity, degree, value, etc."
Hey... at least I am putting effort into sounding positive, right?
That's your privilege, but I don't see anything beneficial in myself attempting that about this subject any more. At least not as long as this toxicity exists here.
Okay, stupid question but who would actually spend money to upgrade a non-fleet ship that doesn't already have 10 console slots?
I will in one case. The T'varo. The extra console will help a lot and it would cost 2000 for fleet as mine was a veteran reward. Just not worth it.
Although I agree that Fleet 6 will render T5U obsolete, I will still fly all T5u ships for the foreseeable future. Fight the Future Scully.
Captain Jean-Luc Picard: "We think we've come so far. Torture of heretics, burning of witches, it's all ancient history. Then - before you can blink an eye - suddenly it threatens to start all over again."
"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."
That's your privilege, but I don't see anything beneficial in myself attempting that about this subject any more. At least not as long as this toxicity exists here.
I'm gonna go play some STO.
Wait... 2 weeks ago you told me to relax and be more positive about the new ships, and now that I put an effort into doing just that, you're "meh"?
Don't look silly... Don't call it the "Z-Store/Zen Store"...
I don't really care tbh, as long as I can do the PvE content in my T5U. T6 fleet ships will only give you an advantage over others if you Pvp..... At least that's the way I'm looking at it. T5U ships will only become obsolete if T7 ships arrive in the future......
Don't get me wrong, I'm glad that you are. But there are others who simply don't want to give them a chance.
The one thing I hate is when people tell me how I should feel about something, and if anyone pays any notice to what I post on the forums they'll know I'm not one to satisfy other people's ego problems.
Now more on topic, as it stands now I don't see how some of these Intel ships (the T6 ones) are supposed to be balanced with T5-U, most notably the escort types. I mean having ships with lances that don't have the inherent complications like the Gal-X strikes me as being rather insane.
The thing with this though is a lot of people aren't willing to accept some of the baseline problems. As it is now, I can honestly tell someone that they can take whatever ship they like and it can be made to do well, you might not be the best at what you do but you won't be all that far off.
Now with DR, it's hard to say that and in the same sentence say that you won't be a crutch compared with that you could be flying alongside in the team. It obviously would be nice to test this stuff on tribble but if previous releases and how things stand now are anything to go by this isn't going to happen.
So don't have a go at people for being legitimately concerned about something when they don't have any real evidence to prove it either way.
Ten soldiers wisely led will beat a hundred without a head. - Euripides
I no longer do any Bug Hunting work for Cryptic. I may resume if a serious attempt to fix the game is made.
The one thing I hate is when people tell me how I should feel about something, and if anyone pays any notice to what I post on the forums they'll know I'm not one to satisfy other people's ego problems.
Why should I care now...? I thought you'd be glad that I gave up on trying to reassure everyone with facts.
You don't have any. You're just spouting an opinion, because no one has tested this out on tribble.
You're implying that I'm claiming that anything is equal. I have not. I have only pointed out what Geko has said, and that the vast majority of it, if not all of it has come to pass. As well as pointed out the fact that if tests come out showing imbalance, it can and most likely would get rebalanced.
I don't understand why you're putting words into my mouth. I'm even ready to agree with you that no one can know for sure. Why are you antagonizing me?
Edit: No, this is exactly what I'm talking about. I try to bring unbiased reason to my fellow forum posters out of concern, then they bring out the "if you're not with us, you're against us" card out without good reason or honesty. Every time without fail. THAT is why I'm done, or at least am trying to be done with this. <.<
You're implying that I'm claiming that anything is equal. I have not. I have only pointed out what Geko has said, and that the vast majority of it, if not all of it has come to pass. As well as pointed out the fact that if tests come out showing imbalance, it can and most likely would get rebalanced.
I don't understand why you're putting words into my mouth. I'm even ready to agree with you that no one can know for sure. Why are you antagonizing me?
You're not following me at all, let me try putting it another way.
No one has tested this on tribble. Claiming anything that Geko has said has come to pass is therefore a pointless exercise in trying to claim people shouldn't be concerned.
I'm never try to antagonise anything, people do that for themselves when someone has a different opinion to them. Now knowing Cryptic and how they still haven't balanced a large swath of the game and also considering most ship changes they've made have never worked (FHCR and FPER bugs still not resolved) it would only be the decent thing to hold Cryptic to account for what could easily end up being another blunder.
From what I've seen you write, you're essentially trying to put people down for having a different opinion to you. The only reason I'm annoyed with you in any way is that the way your writing your posts, in my view, implies you simply don't care what others opinions are unless they agree with yours.
I don't mind debating stuff with people, I've said it before. However if you're going to talk to me at least get what I've said right and don't get riled up because peoiple have a different opinion to you.
Ten soldiers wisely led will beat a hundred without a head. - Euripides
I no longer do any Bug Hunting work for Cryptic. I may resume if a serious attempt to fix the game is made.
You're not following me at all, let me try putting it another way.
No one has tested this on tribble. Claiming anything that Geko has said has come to pass is therefore a pointless exercise in trying to claim people shouldn't be concerned.
But the very reason it hasn't been tested and that we don't know exactly what's what is the very thing not to be concerned about. It's unknown, not known. There's no reason to be concerned. There's no reason to be anything yet.
Now knowing Cryptic and how they still haven't balanced a large swath of the game and also considering most ship changes they've made have never worked (FHCR and FPER bugs still not resolved) it would only be the decent thing to hold Cryptic to account for what could easily end up being another blunder.
Here's the thing though. Cryptic has made known their intentions with this. They've explained that unlike systems like R&D, which they've claimed that the wants of the players are 'divorced' from what was actually trying to be accomplished with it, are a totally different case than this whole ship balancing deal. They actually want feedback from us to help balance everything out. They want us to head on Tribble and test all this out when it becomes available. They want to fix where imbalance lies. If we refuse to do that, and instead complain about how imbalanced things become without helping out ourselves, the blame can not be solely on Cryptic.
When the players adopt this notion that they're completely helpless and that Cryptic will never ever listen to their input, that becomes the problem. And that's exactly what's happening here. They blame Cryptic, rather than their unwillingness to help balance the game the way Cryptic instructed them to.
From what I've seen you write, you're essentially trying to put people down for having a different opinion to you. The only reason I'm annoyed with you in any way is that the way your writing your posts, in my view, implies you simply don't care what others opinions are unless they agree with yours.
I don't mind debating stuff with people, I've said it before. However if you're going to talk to me at least get what I've said right and don't get riled up because peoiple have a different opinion to you.
If I've ever tried to put anyone down, please point those posts out to me. I don't want to go there. That's definitely not my intention, and if I am, I'm misrepresenting my own position.
Now if you wish to strawman me more, fine. Go ahead. But that's not helping the game at all.
AFAIK, the Intelligence Ships will not be available for testing on Tribble, that means we will not actually be able to provide feedback on whether Tier 5 U ships are equally strong or not.
But we can look at the stats for Tier 5 U on Tribble and the Tier 6 ships, and say the Tier 6 are probably already now superior, and if there will also be Fleet variants, any drawbacks they may have will be negated with the Fleet upgrades unless Tier 6 ships get less out of these upgrades than Tier 5 ships did.
Star Trek Online Advancement: You start with lowbie gear, you end with Lobi gear.
Okay, stupid question but who would actually spend money to upgrade a non-fleet ship that doesn't already have 10 console slots?
I sure would. I don't have any Fleet ships. Due I don't have the time or resources to get one. Then I have to deal with the Fleet and get permission to buy one. Plus I don't do STFs, so I have no need for those type of ships.
Not everyone has a Fleet ship or will get one in the future. Just because you only use Fleet ships or some other type of ship. Don't mean your way of playing fits everyone.
USS Casinghead NCC 92047 launched 2350
Fleet Admiral Stowe - Dominion War Vet.
The T6 Intel ships are so blegh. The escort is nice, essentially adding an Intel power to the rotation. Otherwise, the cruiser feels forced into A2B because you're stuck with only 3 Tac abilities. Ugh.
From the information we have right now, most of my T5-U ships will have better layouts.
The currently known T6 stats sure won't knock the Scimitar off its perch.
For PVP and STF, yes most will be using T6. Due to most want to be top of the charts in DPS, or fussing about having to "carry" someone with lesser gear.
As for me, I will keep using my regular old ships. In the future I will consider upgrades to them. But I have no need for the T6s. Since I only do solo on the game.
USS Casinghead NCC 92047 launched 2350
Fleet Admiral Stowe - Dominion War Vet.
The T6 Intel ships are so blegh. The escort is nice, essentially adding an Intel power to the rotation. Otherwise, the cruiser feels forced into A2B because you're stuck with only 3 Tac abilities. Ugh.
From the information we have right now, most of my T5-U ships will have better layouts.
The currently known T6 stats sure won't knock the Scimitar off its perch.
The Cruiser will be an A2B Beast.. TRIBBLE the Intel CDR CDR Eng, LTC Eng, LTC Tac, LT Sci, Tac En
CDR EN
EPTx, A2B, EPTW3, DEM 3
LTC EN
EPTx, A2B, EPTW3
LTC TAC
TT1, APB1 BFAW3
LT SCI
HE1, ST1
EN TAC
TS1
If you wanted to tank you'd practically be unkillable.
The additional LTC Power is more than any Console can provide.
Comments
Dear Mister Totally-Not-A-Cryptic-Shill,
Note that T5Us will have more hull strength than a T6 (and by logic, a T5U Fleet will have more HP than a Fleet T6), plus they get an extra console slot with the upgrade. The T6's Intell officer could pretty much be regarded as a "living extra console", and from looking at it's powers, they seem pretty feeble compared to a T5's ability to have an 11th console.
As I said from the beginning, these ships in my opinion aren't better. Just different.
But if you have a good T5 already set up, you know where all the buttons are and you know when to use them in the right way for maximum effect, an upgraded T5U is the way to go.
Please try to avoid being sucked in by the latest "shiny new thing". I found that out the hard way after dumping 5K for the Dyson Fed 3-set but eventually found myself going back to flying my Wells for the simple fact that it just works better for me.
Call me old-fashioned, but for me it's like I'd rather drive a '67 Shelby Mustang over the latest Lamborghini. Sometimes, old-school is better.
I just don't get Cryptic, we're hearing about how well the game is doing in many places, they're constantly hiring, and they're the biggest source of prime trek in the world. If they're doing so well they shouldn't need to shaft the player base like this, the devs can sound like real a-holes sometimes, but I have a hard time believing their ego could motivate an attempt to completely over run the current ship family. What the hell is going on?
https://youtube.com/channel/UCJZ5FBJ9bFaZ6yAFiNpZiRQ/featured?view_as=subscriber
Twitter:
https://twitter.com/CaptainCidStorm
Helpful Tools: Dictionary.com - Logical fallacies - Random generator - Word generator - Color tool - Extra Credits - List of common English language errors - New T6 Big booty tutorial
They are not equal... Then they would be the same ships.
T5 ships will have some advantages, T6 will have others... They are on-par... Equally competitive... In fact we should assume that the T5-U ships are superior to the T6 ones.
Saying they are equal is just wrong, because you know this is not true... I am disappointed in you Orangeitis...
Still waiting to be able to use forum titles
Helpful Tools: Dictionary.com - Logical fallacies - Random generator - Word generator - Color tool - Extra Credits - List of common English language errors - New T6 Big booty tutorial
Eww... I would never put my fingers in your mouth... You'd just bite them off...
I simply expected you to be more precise in your description of the issue at had... Was disappointed that you did not... Still am.
There's just a certain amount of convincing I attempt before I just give up and :rolleyes: at them. If they give me a reason to think I'm not wasting my time, then I might rethink my position. But merely speaking from emotion instead of asking honest, inquisitive questions are not the way to accomplish that.
Helpful Tools: Dictionary.com - Logical fallacies - Random generator - Word generator - Color tool - Extra Credits - List of common English language errors - New T6 Big booty tutorial
Hey... at least I am putting effort into sounding positive, right?
Feels like a rather sizeable nitpick to me.
You'll see there's only 1 instance mentioned in which 'equal' actually means 'the same.' The way orangeitis used it was 100% correct, and would fall under definition 2) "like or alike in quantity, degree, value, etc."
I'm gonna go play some STO.
Helpful Tools: Dictionary.com - Logical fallacies - Random generator - Word generator - Color tool - Extra Credits - List of common English language errors - New T6 Big booty tutorial
I will in one case. The T'varo. The extra console will help a lot and it would cost 2000 for fleet as mine was a veteran reward. Just not worth it.
Although I agree that Fleet 6 will render T5U obsolete, I will still fly all T5u ships for the foreseeable future. Fight the Future Scully.
"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."
Wait... 2 weeks ago you told me to relax and be more positive about the new ships, and now that I put an effort into doing just that, you're "meh"?
Helpful Tools: Dictionary.com - Logical fallacies - Random generator - Word generator - Color tool - Extra Credits - List of common English language errors - New T6 Big booty tutorial
The one thing I hate is when people tell me how I should feel about something, and if anyone pays any notice to what I post on the forums they'll know I'm not one to satisfy other people's ego problems.
Now more on topic, as it stands now I don't see how some of these Intel ships (the T6 ones) are supposed to be balanced with T5-U, most notably the escort types. I mean having ships with lances that don't have the inherent complications like the Gal-X strikes me as being rather insane.
The thing with this though is a lot of people aren't willing to accept some of the baseline problems. As it is now, I can honestly tell someone that they can take whatever ship they like and it can be made to do well, you might not be the best at what you do but you won't be all that far off.
Now with DR, it's hard to say that and in the same sentence say that you won't be a crutch compared with that you could be flying alongside in the team. It obviously would be nice to test this stuff on tribble but if previous releases and how things stand now are anything to go by this isn't going to happen.
So don't have a go at people for being legitimately concerned about something when they don't have any real evidence to prove it either way.
Helpful Tools: Dictionary.com - Logical fallacies - Random generator - Word generator - Color tool - Extra Credits - List of common English language errors - New T6 Big booty tutorial
You don't have any. You're just spouting an opinion, because no one has tested this out on tribble.
EDIT: The only fact is that no one has tested these so no one can claim to know any better either way except for what the figures are.
I don't understand why you're putting words into my mouth. I'm even ready to agree with you that no one can know for sure. Why are you antagonizing me?
Edit: No, this is exactly what I'm talking about. I try to bring unbiased reason to my fellow forum posters out of concern, then they bring out the "if you're not with us, you're against us" card out without good reason or honesty. Every time without fail. THAT is why I'm done, or at least am trying to be done with this. <.<
Helpful Tools: Dictionary.com - Logical fallacies - Random generator - Word generator - Color tool - Extra Credits - List of common English language errors - New T6 Big booty tutorial
You're not following me at all, let me try putting it another way.
No one has tested this on tribble. Claiming anything that Geko has said has come to pass is therefore a pointless exercise in trying to claim people shouldn't be concerned.
I'm never try to antagonise anything, people do that for themselves when someone has a different opinion to them. Now knowing Cryptic and how they still haven't balanced a large swath of the game and also considering most ship changes they've made have never worked (FHCR and FPER bugs still not resolved) it would only be the decent thing to hold Cryptic to account for what could easily end up being another blunder.
From what I've seen you write, you're essentially trying to put people down for having a different opinion to you. The only reason I'm annoyed with you in any way is that the way your writing your posts, in my view, implies you simply don't care what others opinions are unless they agree with yours.
I don't mind debating stuff with people, I've said it before. However if you're going to talk to me at least get what I've said right and don't get riled up because peoiple have a different opinion to you.
Having differences in opinion or view isn't innately antagonizing.
Here's the thing though. Cryptic has made known their intentions with this. They've explained that unlike systems like R&D, which they've claimed that the wants of the players are 'divorced' from what was actually trying to be accomplished with it, are a totally different case than this whole ship balancing deal. They actually want feedback from us to help balance everything out. They want us to head on Tribble and test all this out when it becomes available. They want to fix where imbalance lies. If we refuse to do that, and instead complain about how imbalanced things become without helping out ourselves, the blame can not be solely on Cryptic.
When the players adopt this notion that they're completely helpless and that Cryptic will never ever listen to their input, that becomes the problem. And that's exactly what's happening here. They blame Cryptic, rather than their unwillingness to help balance the game the way Cryptic instructed them to.
If I've ever tried to put anyone down, please point those posts out to me. I don't want to go there. That's definitely not my intention, and if I am, I'm misrepresenting my own position.
Now if you wish to strawman me more, fine. Go ahead. But that's not helping the game at all.
Helpful Tools: Dictionary.com - Logical fallacies - Random generator - Word generator - Color tool - Extra Credits - List of common English language errors - New T6 Big booty tutorial
But we can look at the stats for Tier 5 U on Tribble and the Tier 6 ships, and say the Tier 6 are probably already now superior, and if there will also be Fleet variants, any drawbacks they may have will be negated with the Fleet upgrades unless Tier 6 ships get less out of these upgrades than Tier 5 ships did.
I sure would. I don't have any Fleet ships. Due I don't have the time or resources to get one. Then I have to deal with the Fleet and get permission to buy one. Plus I don't do STFs, so I have no need for those type of ships.
Not everyone has a Fleet ship or will get one in the future. Just because you only use Fleet ships or some other type of ship. Don't mean your way of playing fits everyone.
USS Casinghead NCC 92047 launched 2350
Fleet Admiral Stowe - Dominion War Vet.
From the information we have right now, most of my T5-U ships will have better layouts.
The currently known T6 stats sure won't knock the Scimitar off its perch.
As for me, I will keep using my regular old ships. In the future I will consider upgrades to them. But I have no need for the T6s. Since I only do solo on the game.
USS Casinghead NCC 92047 launched 2350
Fleet Admiral Stowe - Dominion War Vet.
The Cruiser will be an A2B Beast.. TRIBBLE the Intel CDR CDR Eng, LTC Eng, LTC Tac, LT Sci, Tac En
CDR EN
EPTx, A2B, EPTW3, DEM 3
LTC EN
EPTx, A2B, EPTW3
LTC TAC
TT1, APB1 BFAW3
LT SCI
HE1, ST1
EN TAC
TS1
If you wanted to tank you'd practically be unkillable.
The additional LTC Power is more than any Console can provide.