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hyefather
Member Posts: 1,286 Arc User
The borg's warp technology is not Dilithium based. In one episode of TNG I believe they were traveling at warp 13. So if the Borg doesn't use Dilithium why not blow up all the dilithium mines and asteriods. It would send starfleet and the KDF back to the stone age. Romulans on the other hand may have a diffrent way of powering their warp cores (not sure). So why hasn't the queen thought of this. I'm starting to believe she likes fighting starfleet, just to pass time from being bord.
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She wants to assimilate them not destroy them.
I think it's pretty obvious that the Borg Queen is pretty dumb. If she were smart, she might try sending 2 or more cubes to Earth next time she tries to invade.
You're right about Romulans. Fed/KDF and most others use dilithium to regulate the matter/antimatter reaction in their warp drives. Romulans get their power from singularities somehow. Not sure why they need dilithium for anything in this game.
My character Tsin'xing
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Quote from wiki: "The pursuit of an unemotional, mechanical perfection is the Borg's only motivation."
The Borg are all about expansion and improvement. You don't destroy what you might use at some point... Even if you don't know you need it yet.
the roms need it for the same reason we all do, for trade, think about it how many of the dilithium you have collected have you used in you ships? same as everyone else I should think, zero that's how many.
we use all our dilithium for trade purposes as its the no1 form of currency in the game, though our ships are powered by the stuff none of the dil we collect and refine is ever taken to be used in our ships its only ever used to buy stuff for ourselves or our fleet.
besides how do you know roms dont use dilithium in their ships, they may well use a singularity as their main sauce of power but they may need dilithium as the power sauce that kickstarts the singularity core, a bit like how a car battery is used to start a car.
once the singularity is started it may well run indefinatly but you never know if for some reason it shuts down by accident, damage or to be worked on, they made still need that dilithium crystal power to restart it at some point.
When I think about everything we've been through together,
maybe it's not the destination that matters, maybe it's the journey,
and if that journey takes a little longer,
so we can do something we all believe in,
I can't think of any place I'd rather be or any people I'd rather be with.
to the borg raw materials can be resequenced into something else, they have other ways to make something useful from dilithium. however they could also consider the crystal irrelevant and as such it would be left ignored. some outposts and bases are likely too low tech for the borg to be concerned with especially if there is a high tech starbase nearby with 15x the amount of potential drones and such.
Been around since Dec 2010 on STO and bought LTS in Apr 2013 for STO.
This is the creed of the Hoarder.
Correct me if I am wrong here anyone. But I thought dilithium was not a fuel or power source. But the control point for energy conversion. Matter and anti-matter combine at a dilithium crystal and it is turned into controlled, high energy plasma instead of detonating.
With that thought going it is essential for amr's, but it may also have applications in other high energy transfer systems. Hand phaser/disrtuptors, ship weapons and shields, as well as industrial uses. So the vast need for dilithium is what gives it value. (And neatly explains why we burn through it to pay to make/buy items.)
Originally Posted by pwlaughingtrendy
Network engineers are not ship designers.
Nor should they be. Their ships would look weird.
Mass invasion of the Solanae Dyson Sphere, capture Omega Particles and cause a deliberate particle collapse destroying subspace across Federation and Klingon space
Without warp travel the Federation and all other races would be unable to create a stable Warp field regardless of the power source, including the Romulan Singularity drive.
Plunging their very fabric of Trade, Infrastructure and Defence systems into chaos. Generational Travel is perfectly acceptable to Borg drones, and the Assimilation of Earth will still take place over a longer time frame.
Though I suspect this is unlikely because:
A- it would be similar to Heresy for the Borg to destroy a "perfect" Omega Particle, think just how hard a time 7 of 9 had and she was a liberated drone
B- A successful Invasion of the Sphere by the Borg would require enough Common sense to invade the sphere with an appropriately sized force, something STO's Borg have shown themselves incapable of doing.
I think your correct, As far as I'm aware Deuterium and Anti Deuterium are the Fuel, the Dilithium is essentially a reaction catalyst.
I believe it would be deeply inefficient for the Borg to actually seek out and destroy every dilithium source in a large region of space 25-30,000 light years away from their home. Especially when synthetic and crystal regeneration of Dilithium is common. Also consider the Bajoran Wormhole. Now they need to get rid of every Dilithium source in the Gamma Quadrant near Idran too. It's just far too unwieldy a plan for the Borg to consider or anyone else to actually carry out.
Also the Borg think long term. They are aware that Starfleet has experience with both Transwarp and Quantum Slipstream technology. Depriving the Federation of easy dilithium sources would only accelerate their adoption of even faster non dilithium based FTL technologies.
Dilithium is used to tune and focus the matter and antimatter reaction direct it in the engines. Without Dilithium I believe the matter and antimatter would just explode in a chaotic way instead of a controlled method that can be harnessed for the use of the engines.
Romulan warp drive is different. They are stated to use a Forced (read artificial) Quantum Singularity to power their drives which if you think about it means they basically power their ship by Micro-Quasar. They have a miniature black hole then they feed material into it and use the energy it blows off to power their warp drive. They may need Dilithium to tune the energy that comes out, they may not. The one time we saw a Romulan engine room we didn't see any pointing out of a dilithium chamber.
The first time the Borg came they were stopped by a method that would've destroyed an entire fleet of Cubes.
The second time they came her objective was to travel back in time and prevent Humanity from ever reaching the stars.
My character Tsin'xing
That still begs the question as to why Fight through the Federations Defences and not Travel Back to before they exisited and just breeze through unhindered
I mean the Borg Queen should have anticipated the arrival of "Locutus" and been aware that he was in possession of Significant Tactical Information that would have posed a serious threat as was shown to be the case
So either the Borg are extremely arrogant, monumentally over confident or just plain stupid, or perhaps all of the above.
Which is not surprising, its my experience that whenever a large number of humans come together to act as a Collective without some kind of direction, they invariably act in stupid ways, not unlike stampeding animals.
My character Tsin'xing
It's a wonder how they're able to get anything done.
Even though the Borg don't use Dill for warp travel they still use subspace when outside of the conduit system. If they destroyed subspace they wouldn't be able to travel and assimilate anything either!
As for the Generational approach to assimilation it wouldn't be feasible because the race they were going to assimilate could either have time to create defences or might even die out all together.
That being said I do totally agree with you on both points A & B, an Omega particle to the Borg is like Nepta to a Ferasen and as for common sense they can invade Defra but can't put a cube in orbit for backup!!!
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Human stubbornnes and inginuity.
There was no way for the Queen to predict the Enterprise would interfere, there was no way to predict Voyager's rampage through a Transwarp Hub...
There was no way to predict that they would get intercepted by the 22nd Century Enterprise...
The Borg don't think creatively. They think logically to a fault. Straight forward and to the point. You come at them sideways... they aren't prepared for it. That's the problem with how they gain knowledge through Assimilation.
You hit them with something they've never seen before, and they get hammered until they can get their hands on it.
Good. I should make a hefty profit from this TR-116C Rifle - Sniper Rifle [Stbrn] [HumIngenuity]x4 on the exchange, then!
Well if I remember correctly from a TNG episode (The name escapes me) but basically once activated they don't shut down...if they shut down that is it for them. I think Geordi mentioned it was kind of a disadvantage because for example they couldn't power down their core to hide, like we've seen done multiple times.
Not really a disadvantage to the Romulans when they can cloak.
That makes sense, and the borg don't think in common sense. A unified Hive mind seems unable to think critically, always failing to anticipate threats, only analyising its failure afterwards
And from what we have seen the Borg don't seem to think in terms of Total War, If they did there would be nobody with free will left in the Alpha Quadrant.
While Dilithium may not be present naturally on some planets it is plentiful and "grows" wild throughout the galaxy. B'Elanna found it growing on a pre-industrial, pre-warp planet. It was known as "winters tears".
Destroying every known source of dilithium would involve the destruction of many dozens if not hundreds or maybe even thousands of planets.
While the Borg may have the "man" and firepower to do so, it would STILL be a herculean task that would take many dozens if not hundreds of years to do.
The key to the Borg taking Starfleet and the Federation is to take Earth. To do so, they would need to send dozens of cubes, and have them exit their transwarp conduits as close to Earth as possible to completely overwhelm them.
The only reason they haven't done so is plot,... also, though the Borg may not use it themselves, and we know the ROmulans don't, Dilithium has other uses, one of them being as a currency as mention by Quark in an episode of DS9 - 408 - Little Green Men
"There... are... four... lights!" ~Jean Luc Picard
It may be that the Borg aren't able to support so many drones in an area without the supporting infrastructure. Largely just speculating here, but within Borg space, they use the Unimatrices like routers, limiting their expansion. They push out, then have to stop to build new routers to keep the collective whole. In order to send a large number of drones away from the collective, they need to be accompanied by a Queen to keep them focused and to act as the link to the collective, rather than trying to support tens of thousands of long distance links. An unsupported Queen might be comparatively limited in the number of drones she can control, so only a single Cube can be supported. Upon reaching their destination, they'd presumably begin assimilating and construction of a Unimatrix (or converting the Cube into one).
Why not just send two Queens on two Cubes then? No idea. Perhaps the Collective can only maintain a handful of such long ranged connections at a time, or perhaps two Queens so close to each other might cause some kind of conflict (drones from Cube A trying to carry out directives given by Queen B for Cube B, hampering efficiency). In Enterprise, the number of drones might have been sufficiently small to keep them focused on a single directive, returning home, hence the lack of need for a Queen there.
It may be the only way to bypass the 31st century Federation. If you go back in time far away, then there's plenty of 'time' for the future to detect the ripples and repair the damage. If you do it near a point where with your damage the 31st century Federation would cease to exist on the other hand, then it might be enough.
No way to predict that the flagship of the Federation wouldn't be at the defense of the heart of the Federation? There's no reason to expect anything else.
Noone would predict a starship to suddenly show up with technology far more advanced than what it's meant to have, carrying torpedoes that could destroy far larger and previously superior ships in a single shot.
While they didn't expect the NX Enterprise to show up, they were hardly unprepared for it either. They were in an inferior ship, so they retreated and sabotaged the Enterprise in the event that it caught up with them again.
Contrary to that one line in Scorpion, the Borg do indeed invent and think creatively. They designed a harmonic resonance chamber to contain and stabilise Omega Particles should they ever have the resources to produce another. Not assimilated the knowledge to produce a harmonic resonance chamber, but designed.
While new weapons are certainly effective against the Borg, they don't just sit there getting hit over the head until they can assimilate someone who knows all about it. Knowing about a weapon doesn't immediately tell you how to defend against it. Picard knew about the plan to use the deflector dish as a weapon, but he probably didn't know the specifics, and I very much doubt he would have known how to make the Enterprise or the Cube impervious to its effects. Give the Borg the knowledge about the weapon (but not how to beat it), and they could work out how nullify it completely. In the books, they adapted to the Transphasic torpedoes, not by assimilating, but as Picard warned, simply by them being used against them. The repeated shots gave them enough data to analyze, and that allowed them to determine how to adapt to them.
You come at anyone with something they aren't prepared for, and it'll be effective against them. But it remains effective against the Borg for far less time.
And let's not forget one important fact, not every Federation in the various universes survived the Borg. There's no reason to think that those humans weren't stubborn or ingenious enough to defeat the Borg, they simply didn't stumble upon a working method. Stubbornness and ingenuity is hardly unique to humans either. In the end, it wasn't a human who defeated the Borg in Best of Both Worlds, it was an android. It wasn't because of a standard old human the Borg were defeated the second time either, it was because of insider knowledge a human had from being assimilated in the past. Let's not forget to give Q some credit too, without him the Federation wouldn't have known about the Borg until they were right on our doorstep (ignoring the events of Regeneration, which weren't terribly informative for the Federation).
Maybe the real reason we get to mine Dilithium in the DS9 Sector Block may be that the Ferengi there feel very safe with dozens of Starfleet, KDF and Republic starships in orbit.
Haha, your probably right, the Ferengi Invite us to mine and in return they get Free Security Patrols round the clock