I'd have to disagree about docking my Odyssey. For me it has the best Boff layout for my playing style and the nicest Bridge that I like to visit often. It's also one of the nicest designs and of course the flagship of my fleet and the Federation.
I'd be more than willing to shell out real money to buy a T6 Odyssey style ship with similar or better Boff layout and bridge.
Sorry I'm an Odyssey can all the way, it's just the perfect ship for me. Hopefully the flagship of the Federation will get an upgrade, in either case that Bridge needs to go to some T6 ship it is such a great bridge.
I was a Galaxy all the way until the Oddy came out. I love big ships! Make them City Ships! Love them!! One day I went to the fleet defient just to try something different. But who knows maybe ill go back to a large T6 ship or even a science. Just to keep it fresh.
My gaming experience in my life is mainly limited to console games... but, that's good because I played one console game, mainly: Madden NFL by EA Sports. Anyone who has played Madden for more than one year knows that EA loves to charge $60 a year for a roster upgrade, and constantly removes features from the game only to return them a few years later to call them "new."
Two thoughts, as a result from this:
1. Why is anyone surprised that Cryptic/PWE wants to make money?
2. Why is everyone acting like your T5 ships will be automatically downgraded to T1, once X2 goes live?
1. Why is anyone surprised that Cryptic/PWE wants to make money?
That oversimplifies the criticism. Most people are a-OK with Cryptic wanting to make money. It's the decisions being made that pretty much strip the game of things people like, leaving repetitive boring non-content as the shell of what people have to play with.
If there was a rich Trek-filled universe for me to explore and engage in, I'd be fine with paying a premium for ships to do that in.
Instead there's battlezones doing the same 15 minute fight sequence over and over and over again on loop.
That's a slightly more complex view of what people are criticizing.
Keep this in mind. The big big BIG announcement at Vegas mentioned a lot of new ships coming. But at the Q&A it was revealed that the content was being held off until after the expansion release.
Agreed. I think most of the players who are whining the most are those who do PVP mostly and don't want to have to lower themselves to being a "PVE Hero" for story content, which is clearly beneath them.
The devs have had a way of bowing to the PvP crowd. Anyone remember when tractor beam mines were still awesome? Why they would give in to the minority so easily while ignoring repeated bug reports from MANY players has long been a mystery to me.
They've already stated at the Q&A that the new content is not all coming out with the expansion. They assure us there will be enough REPEATABLE content to tide us over until they can get around to putting in the new content.
A new battlezone. Not really much in the way of new stories. Specializatons are coming. And likely to replace the skill tree. So new ships. New repetable content. New money sinks. New grind.
I guess if you enjoy that, then yay get excited.
It's thin and gets boring fast.
Yeah, I've been calling this expansion a remake of LoR, but when you but it that way...it's a mashup of LoR and Dyson. And no, that isn't a compliment to PWE.
OK OK Is the Unicorn real and how much zen does the Unicorn TRIBBLE?? Do we have a cool down? A daily Unicorn TRIBBLE? Do we get bonus Unicorn farts some weekends.
Not the unicorn!! The Radan Tribble!! Yes, it'a real. It ****s 5 DIL when it's pet. It has a cooldown of an hour. And uh...no Zen, sadly.
Clearly running the game costs money and at some point, people are spending money on Zen. You might not be, but someone out there is. Or do you believe all the Devs working for free?
The issue here (in general, I mean) isn't monetization. It's the blatant cash grab tactics and how that potential for money is taking over the game. Quality is going down to prop up the grind.
My Old Blog about things that could and should have been added when I wrote it. Not sure what I want to do with it now. I'll just keep it available now that most of it is outdated.
That oversimplifies the criticism. Most people are a-OK with Cryptic wanting to make money. It's the decisions being made that pretty much strip the game of things people like, leaving repetitive boring non-content as the shell of what people have to play with.
If there was a rich Trek-filled universe for me to explore and engage in, I'd be fine with paying a premium for ships to do that in.
Instead there's battlezones doing the same 15 minute fight sequence over and over and over again on loop.
That's a slightly more complex view of what people are criticizing.
Keep this in mind. The big big BIG announcement at Vegas mentioned a lot of new ships coming. But at the Q&A it was revealed that the content was being held off until after the expansion release.
It's actually not that much of an oversimplification, as my first question was intended to be taken in unison with my second... which you didn't.
I've bought ships, just like (most) everyone else... everything from the entire Defiant line (refit, retrofit, fleet) to the Oddy 3-pack. None of these ships are going anywhere, and none of them are "OP" out of the box. I bought the Tactical Escort Refit... this does not mean I'm entitled to the Retrofit for free. Granted, the reduced fleet module cost was a nice bonus, but I still had to pay for something... and that was just for upgrading my ship from a T5 to a T5.5. I brought up the example of Madden NFL because this is how games work. I felt more cheated by EA, because if I wanted to play with an updated roster, I had to buy the next version of the game. No compromise.
Yes, we aren't getting T6 ships for free. Bummer. But, the devs have come on here and stated emphatically that they will "take care of us." What this actually means, we don't know... but, I will give them the benefit of the doubt for now.
On a side note... I am of the camp that the dump-in-a-box known as "exploration" was EXACTLY "repetitive boring non-content" that should have been dropped from the game... so I fear we won't agree on this.
It's actually not that much of an oversimplification,
It really is. As this statement of yours pretty much underscores:
Yes, we aren't getting T6 ships for free. Bummer.
No one's asking for T6 ships for free.
You do have rabid Star Trek fans who want to play their Star Trek video game in a ship that they saw on the Star Trek screen. Like a Galaxy. Or a Defiant. Or an Excelsior.
And so they're going to be very critical of what this system does, because their favorite ships from their favorite show are going to be marginalized.
But, the devs have come on here and stated emphatically that they will "take care of us." What this actually means, we don't know... but, I will give them the benefit of the doubt for now.
Like they took care of us with the Trait Revamp?
On a side note... I am of the camp that the dump-in-a-box known as "exploration" was EXACTLY "repetitive boring non-content" that should have been dropped from the game... so I fear we won't agree on this.
Well setting aside exploration, let's just look at the "dump-in-a-box" content that IS in the game.
How repetitive are the STFs?
How boring are the battlezones?
How engaging are the featured episodes on that SIXTH or SEVENTH run through you have to do to get that full slate of items from them?
Or the 15th time to finally equip your entire set of BOFFs with the top mark TOS phaser pistol just for aesthetics?
I'm not talking about exploration at all when I type REPEATABLE content. I'm talking about the actual in-game content. When the devs said repeatable content at the Q&A they weren't talking about exploration either. They were talking about battlezones. They're gonna give you another big steaming plate of battlezone with the expansion.
If that's your thing, cool.
But it's not engaging story content.
They said a chunk of that ... will have to wait until after release.
I understand perfectly. Long time players will understand that Cryptic has consistently failed to earn the trust of the playerbase. And that lack of trust is why you see what you call "hate."
I understand perfectly. Long time players will understand that Cryptic has consistently failed to earn the trust of the playerbase. And that lack of trust is why you see what you call "hate."
Enter ARC(the new deal)....and why PWE/Cryptic thinks the doom thread is so funny, sicking our own on us! anyone who has a problem or issue is shoved into the closet to be ridiculed by dedicated trolls!
You and the OP (who's 37)... I'm 57! All I can say is... you kids! SHEEESH :rolleyes:
*STO*Its mission: To destroy strange new worlds, to seek out new life and new civilizations... and then kill them, to boldly annihilate what no one has annihilated before!
Some most certainly have. If that was not you, then forgive me for unknowingly lumping you into that group.
Others want the ability to upgrade at a reduced cost, similar to the fleet module system currently in place. I certainly wouldn't be opposed to this... who wouldn't? (Although, buying a fleet ship isn't technically an "upgrade." It's a new ship, at a discount if you have the C-Store version AND your fleet has the proper shipyard.)
While we aren't getting this, either (again, bummer)... we are getting something, when they (Cryptic/PWE) are FULLY WITHIN THEIR RIGHTS as a company that WANTS MONEY to make you pay every last dime for it... like EA does every year with Madden NFL. This is a relevant point, because Madden is often the most popular console game, year after year. People still buy it. You want ANYTHING new, though? GOTTA PAY. Every year. No exceptions.
Cryptic/PWE doesn't seem to be interested in THAT level of TRIBBLE job, so we should be happy with (or at least take solace in) that fact.
You do have rabid Star Trek fans who want to play their Star Trek video game in a ship that they saw on the Star Trek screen. Like a Galaxy. Or a Defiant. Or an Excelsior.
And so they're going to be very critical of what this system does, because their favorite ships from their favorite show are going to be marginalized.
There is ZERO evidence that this will be the case, or that T6 ships will be SO much better than the T5.5+ ships we will be able to get... which, by the way, was what the devs said will happen. "We will take care of you." While we don't know what this means, we are getting some form of system that will allow us to improve our T5.5 ships.
We know so little at this point. Why not wait and see before passing judgment?
Like they took care of us with the Trait Revamp?
I joined this game five minutes before season nine dropped, LOL... part of the problem on waiting FOUR YEARS for a Mac client to be released ... so, I only really know what things were like in the season nine state of the game, forward. I can obviously see that this game has rocky stories in its history... but, I'm not interested in pot-shots against the dev team. To my knowledge, any trait bugs have been fixed, so I will not throw failures-now-repaired into their face.
I say this, too, having MANY complaints about the Mac client. (Try playing this game with no stereo sound.) I have plenty to gripe about in this game... and there are many others that have legit gripes, too.
Why play the game? I gave it a shot, and it's fun. I guess I'm just more of a forgiving optimist... and, my bar is set lower, because I'm looking for a fun Trek video game, not my own personal holodeck.
I'm not talking about exploration at all when I type REPEATABLE content. I'm talking about the actual in-game content. When the devs said repeatable content at the Q&A they weren't talking about exploration either. They were talking about battlezones. They're gonna give you another big steaming plate of battlezone with the expansion.
If that's your thing, cool.
But it's not engaging story content.
They said a chunk of that ... will have to wait until after release.
Given that I did not watch the livestream, I also can't speak to what the devs said (or didn't say) about what kinds of content are coming. That would not be fair of me.
Again, we may not see eye-to-eye on this... that's fine, I guess. I suppose those features will be "my thing." Admittedly, though, I haven't even reached endgame yet on my first toon (I will likely start Dyson stuff next week). I still have plenty to play through... and yes, even with the repetitive STFs, which can be boring. Fully admit that. I'm just not sure what you're expecting from a mission you've played through six, seven, or FIFTEEN times?
I understand perfectly. Long time players will understand that Cryptic has consistently failed to earn the trust of the playerbase. And that lack of trust is why you see what you call "hate."
There is ZERO evidence that this will be the case, or that T6 ships will be SO much better than the T5.5+ ships we will be able to get... which, by the way, was what the devs said will happen. "We will take care of you." While we don't know what this means, we are getting some form of system that will allow us to improve our T5.5 ships.
We know so little at this point. Why not wait and see before passing judgment?
Because many of us who weren't waiting for a client for our preferred platform have been here long enough that "We will take care of you" is not an unknown quantity, but rather a "Yeah, we've heard that one before and we're basing our current reactions on how that's worked out before" quantity.
There's a lot of evidence that will be the case. The simple description that T6 ships will be better than T5 but that T5 will still be "competitive" demonstrates that T5 will be marginalized.
And since people who play this game LOVE their Defiants, Excelsiors, etc ... there's going to be a lot of criticism.
Why not wait and see before passing judgment?
Saying that there's going to be criticism isn't really passing judgement. I'm not passing judgement on anything. Well I am being critical of their lack of content in their announcement. But that's all been posted in a different thread.
All I'm saying is ... they've put out contradictory statements, that at best confuse people and at worst create a host of criticism. And I understand the criticism. It makes sense to me. This isn't like some high fantasy MMO where people may like their shiny glowing sword from 2013, but are grudgingly OK with getting a NEW shiny glowing sword in 2014.
This is Star Trek. People are going to flip out if their Excelsior gets marginalized. And right now they keep saying T5 will be competitive, but T6 will be so awesome that people will want it. (That's paraphrasing, but that's what Geko said. T6 will be desirable).
That's a very convoluted way of saying marginalized.
That oversimplifies the criticism. Most people are a-OK with Cryptic wanting to make money. It's the decisions being made that pretty much strip the game of things people like, leaving repetitive boring non-content as the shell of what people have to play with.
I have to call shenanigans on this. All the story missions are still there - in fact, S9 brought us a slew of new missions, by way of the Romulans and the new Klingon tutorial. The only things I've seen removed were one stupid Fed mission about chasing down a Ferengi for no very good reason, and the Exploration Clusters (hey, speaking of "repetitive boring non-content"...).
This game hasn't been "stripped" of anything I like, and so far I still count as "people" (even though I'm not a corporation).
I'm curious, how many of your T1 ships did you spend hundreds (possibly a lot more) of dollars on? Some people spent A LOT of real money getting those lockbox ships.
A specious argument and straw man logic. Build up a false scenario and take it down. Lock box and fleet ships have been end game best for years ... ever since they came online. Devs said they would continue to be the best. "That was the truth"
Now T6 is the best even though T5.x ships will be usable ... just like the Galaxy. "Now that is the truth!"
"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censored, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."
There's a lot of evidence that will be the case. The simple description that T6 ships will be better than T5 but that T5 will still be "competitive" demonstrates that T5 will be marginalized.
Aside from the fact that we don't know if they'll release a T6 Excelsior, Defiant, etc... I mean, this comment leaves room for either interpretation:
There will be T6 cruisers, science vessels, etc. There will ALSO be something new.
"Marginalized" means pushed aside, reduced, even forgotten about... at best, you're jumping the gun on all of that. There will be better ships out, of course... but, surely, you're not saying that a T5.5 ship with Mk XVI gear will be garbage?
Also, while it's fun to read about rumors, and even leaks (like the Xindi Lock Box)... I have my own rule of thumb NOT to believe something until I see the official announcement. That means dev blogs, patch notes, and obviously, the release itself. None of that is out yet. We still know very little.
I have to call shenanigans on this. All the story missions are still there - in fact, S9 brought us a slew of new missions, by way of the Romulans and the new Klingon tutorial. The only things I've seen removed were one stupid Fed mission about chasing down a Ferengi for no very good reason, and the Exploration Clusters (hey, speaking of "repetitive boring non-content"...).
This game hasn't been "stripped" of anything I like, and so far I still count as "people" (even though I'm not a corporation).
LOL. Exactly what were the "slew" of missions again? Season 9 according to the devs was "light" on content due to X2. LOR brought a lot of content true. Season 8 and 9 had a couple of FE (1 every 4-6 months on average) and some new missions for the queues.
Btw, most of those died because they were too slow, boring and had poor rewards. You can see this for yourself by checking on the # queued. It is a little better now due to farming for mats but it is still pretty slow (even on prime time).
There is little inconvenient thing called reality ... sadly it can't be dismissed so easily!
"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censored, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."
LOL. Exactly what were the "slew" of missions again?
Romulan missions, from escaping Virinat to the Battle of Mol'Rihan. Klingon content enabling a Klink to start at lvl 1 and work his way up by missions, as opposed to the old days when the first twenty levels were via grind (as there were no low-level missions), and the slightly-less-old days when Klinks started at lvl 25 because there were still no low-level missions.
I'm 87 years old. I got hooked on star trek when the original series first aired. Then it was TNG,DS9 then Voyager. I missed Enterprise because of work but I got cought up on Netflix. I really needed another Star trek .Then came STO and filled the gap. So I started playing STO and Love it. A small chunk of my retirement check goes to cryptic every month. Honestly I don't care cause I could go at any minute. I can't really get out and do alot of recreational activitys but, what I can do is enjoy myself with a good MMO. Live life to the fullest is what I say and to each his own. To enjoy yourself no matter what the activity is weather its fishing, hunting, going to the movies or fixing up a old care. It all takes money. If you spend a little money to enjoy yourself playing a game. Theres nothing wrong with it. Just live life to the Fullest and be Happy.
hey im 18 and I'm in the same boat... i don't get the hate everyone has... I mean I do get their side of the complains, My point is, you don't have to be too young or too old, to understand... but after all it's just a game, and it's business like any other... aint it???
[...]Well that was your choice. I paid not a dime on fleet stuff. I mined!! If you choose to take a shortcut and spend money on keys and fleet stuff that was your choice.[...]
If those people didn't choose to spend their money on lockbox ships you wouldn't even have gotten a chance to play. They're financing your F2P experience.
So you're not only living off of those that chose to pay, but you're also bashing them for being concerned that something they payed for is getting taken away oder devalued? Great attitude. More like you and the game won't last another season.
I'm 57, and I understand perfectly; watched TOS in prime time, played electromechanical simulators before actual video games were available in arcades, played some of the very earliest computer games on TRS-80 & Apple II boxes... etc.
My only reservation is that Cryptic has not demonstrated a high enough level of competence to build such an ambitious expansion without breaking what's already on Holodeck. Lag has become a serious problem on the STO server since S9.5, the crafting system still makes no sense, faction-specific missions are still inoperative, etc., etc. The rush for cash seems to always take priority to quality, despite Steve Jobs' wise counsel that "Quality is better than quantity; a home run is better than two doubles".
Expendables Fleet: Andrew - Bajoran Fed Engineer Ken'taura - Rom/Fed Scientist Gwyllim - Human Fed Delta Tac Savik - Vulcan Fed Temporal Sci Dahar Masters Fleet: Alphal'Fa - Alien KDF Engineer Qun'pau - Rom/KDF Engineer D'nesh - Orion KDF Scientist Ghen'khan - Liberated KDF Tac Welcome to StarBug Online - to boldly Bug where no bug has been before!
STO player since November 2013
For me personally it's more about the way upgrading the current T5 lineup will work. I understand game progression. I understand raising the level for everything. I have no issues with it, although many people will say that it's not fine since in STO the top-notch ships cost real money regardless how you obtained them. And they're right to a degree, it's not the equivalent of gear getting obsolete, because you played the game to obtain it - not right out paid for it like we do with ships here. Anyway, I'm personally not bothered with it.
What I'm most concerned about is the statement that T5 ships will be upgradeable and taken care of, but at the same time making a claim that the original T6 ships will have a "special" something that would entice us to buy them. Now if that "special" thing comes in the form of:
- DSD gimmick - now I have Sci.Comm, now I have Tac.Comm
- Universal Commander Boff
- Universal console slot
- Unique and special console or set
- Unique fused weapon ala Tempest;
...or similar stuff, I couldn't care less. However, if that "special" thing comes in the form of, let's say:
- A Boff slot for the new Boff career only present on 'original' T6 ships
- Extra Boff abilities
- Extra console slots
- Inherent advantage in the hull/shield department
...or similar - that's where I'll have issues.
The reason being simple - I want to use for ex. the ship in my sig. I don't mind having to pay sth. to upgarde it. I wouldn't overally mind paying almost the full price of a T6 ship in order to put the T5 ship I love in the same weight category with the new T6 vessels. I'm just fan of the iconic designs and I happen to think that most of the Starfleet lineup designed by Cryptic sucks, with a few exceptions. And I reckon there are many STO players that feel this way.
How many people have a Defiant because they loved DS9?
How many people have a Galaxy because they grew up with TNG?
How many people command an Intrepid because they liked Voyager?
How many KDF players use a B'rel because of Chang?
How many KDF players use a Vorcha or a K'tinga because of their iconic heritage and appeal?
How many Romulan fans have a D'Deridex and a Mogai in their hangar, for the same reasons?
My point is - they better allow us to bring up our T5 ships in the same weight category with the new T6 ships without obvious advantages, regardless of the price for the upgarde. I don't care if my Galaxy will be the suckiest of the T6 ships because of Boff and console layouts as long as it has the same amount of resources at her disposal as any other T6 ship.
That's about the only possible issue I could have, with the info we have availible for now. The ships in STO are our secondary, if not primary avatars. They mean much more than gear or a mount. I think it's natural that many of us don't want to mothball our endgame ship, especially if we're comparing iconic designs with new Cryptic ones.
I was preparing to write almost exactly the same as you did.
Luckily i have been brwosing through the thread before starting to write.
Let me just add my 0,02ECs:
I'm over 35 and the only reason to play a MMO is because this one is about Star Trek.
I've grown up with TOS and later watching TNG, but i haven stopped there.
I am ok if new ships are introduced. BUT my problem is that Cryptics Starfleet designs are too often just bad.
They lack of nice looking proportions and often not even resemble Starfleet ships, nor they do work like they should.
Cryptics designs somtimes show good ideas, but they always have some element that makes them look awful.
Let's take the avenger for ex. Bulky and mucular, i'm ok with that.
The problem is the tiny saucer. It looks totally out of place, ruining the whole look of that ship. Even that wouldn't be so bad if that ship would come with a reasonable alternative saucer (a wider one to be accurate).
Or the Odyssey, which needs a pair of forward facing pylons, similar to the regent, to look balanced.
Another example are some Assault Cruiser pylons. Why on earth do they have holes?
And why can't there be just a alternative model without holes?
(I could say the same about the monarc pylons, btw.)
What is it with the (Fleet) Heavy Cruiser (Retrofit) nacelles pairs? Why do 2 of the 3 engineering hulls have to create a offset? It doesn't make the ship look interesting it looks awful.
I could write page over page about things like that, but i hope i could point out what i mean.
My point is: less experiments, more basic options, please. I don't want my ship look like modern art. I simply want some pleasing, good looking and balanced Starfleet ships.
Other games designers and MANY amateurs have done awesome ship designs, why is it so hard for Cryptics emplyees to create Starfleet ships that simply look good?
Now the new design concept (yes i am aware it is just a concept), doesn't look like a starfleet ship at all. Just show it to someone who doesn't play STO without saying anything, i bet no one would identify it as a Star Trek ship.
And thats my point, Cryptics designers try TOO HARD to reinvent the wheel, or they are simply not interested in it and create such awful designs out of lack of interest.
Why not employ someone who has worked for a Trek show before, like John Evans, Andrew Probert or Denise and Michael Okuda for example. Their designs and knowledge would certainly put STOs designs to a new (much better) level.
On the other hand, i think if Cryptics designers would just stop experimenting and try to create simply good looking Starfleet ships it would result in much better ship models.
This is only my opinion, no one is forced to share it or to agree.
Sorry for the wall of text.
(and sorry for my bad english)
"...'With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured...the first thought forbidden...the first freedom denied--chains us all irrevocably.' ... The first time any man's freedom is trodden on, we're all damaged. I fear that today--"
- (TNG) Picard, quoting Judge Aaron Satie
I'm actually (and this is odd for me) reserving judgement on the Starfleet new design we saw. It's a weird angle for me to judge the ship properly at. It's a worm's eye view. So it, I don't know, doesn't hold that Starfleet look to me, but only because I can't see all the things I want to see.
So I'm actually holding off on discussing that one image we saw. I'm glad we got it leaked/posted. But my pitchfork is sharpened for a whole host of other things.
I understand the dismay (and I'm considerably older than the OP). Besides the feeling of wasted effort which is pretty much guaranteed in the genre, there always has to be something new and better I think people develop a personal attachment to favorite ships. That's why many of them have retrofit variants that can be used at max level; it allows a personal fiction that the ship your character is meant to be commanding just went into drydock for a while and came out with some upgrades.
That said, is it a given that the new abilities that only new ships will have will actually be more powerful than the upgraded old ships? They could just be different, replacing existing abilities.
Comments
I was a Galaxy all the way until the Oddy came out. I love big ships! Make them City Ships! Love them!! One day I went to the fleet defient just to try something different. But who knows maybe ill go back to a large T6 ship or even a science. Just to keep it fresh.
Two thoughts, as a result from this:
1. Why is anyone surprised that Cryptic/PWE wants to make money?
2. Why is everyone acting like your T5 ships will be automatically downgraded to T1, once X2 goes live?
That oversimplifies the criticism. Most people are a-OK with Cryptic wanting to make money. It's the decisions being made that pretty much strip the game of things people like, leaving repetitive boring non-content as the shell of what people have to play with.
If there was a rich Trek-filled universe for me to explore and engage in, I'd be fine with paying a premium for ships to do that in.
Instead there's battlezones doing the same 15 minute fight sequence over and over and over again on loop.
That's a slightly more complex view of what people are criticizing.
Keep this in mind. The big big BIG announcement at Vegas mentioned a lot of new ships coming. But at the Q&A it was revealed that the content was being held off until after the expansion release.
Yeah, I've been calling this expansion a remake of LoR, but when you but it that way...it's a mashup of LoR and Dyson. And no, that isn't a compliment to PWE.
Not the unicorn!! The Radan Tribble!! Yes, it'a real. It ****s 5 DIL when it's pet. It has a cooldown of an hour. And uh...no Zen, sadly.
The issue here (in general, I mean) isn't monetization. It's the blatant cash grab tactics and how that potential for money is taking over the game. Quality is going down to prop up the grind.
It's actually not that much of an oversimplification, as my first question was intended to be taken in unison with my second... which you didn't.
I've bought ships, just like (most) everyone else... everything from the entire Defiant line (refit, retrofit, fleet) to the Oddy 3-pack. None of these ships are going anywhere, and none of them are "OP" out of the box. I bought the Tactical Escort Refit... this does not mean I'm entitled to the Retrofit for free. Granted, the reduced fleet module cost was a nice bonus, but I still had to pay for something... and that was just for upgrading my ship from a T5 to a T5.5. I brought up the example of Madden NFL because this is how games work. I felt more cheated by EA, because if I wanted to play with an updated roster, I had to buy the next version of the game. No compromise.
Yes, we aren't getting T6 ships for free. Bummer. But, the devs have come on here and stated emphatically that they will "take care of us." What this actually means, we don't know... but, I will give them the benefit of the doubt for now.
On a side note... I am of the camp that the dump-in-a-box known as "exploration" was EXACTLY "repetitive boring non-content" that should have been dropped from the game... so I fear we won't agree on this.
You seen that episode of STOked too?
It really is. As this statement of yours pretty much underscores:
No one's asking for T6 ships for free.
You do have rabid Star Trek fans who want to play their Star Trek video game in a ship that they saw on the Star Trek screen. Like a Galaxy. Or a Defiant. Or an Excelsior.
And so they're going to be very critical of what this system does, because their favorite ships from their favorite show are going to be marginalized.
Like they took care of us with the Trait Revamp?
Well setting aside exploration, let's just look at the "dump-in-a-box" content that IS in the game.
How repetitive are the STFs?
How boring are the battlezones?
How engaging are the featured episodes on that SIXTH or SEVENTH run through you have to do to get that full slate of items from them?
Or the 15th time to finally equip your entire set of BOFFs with the top mark TOS phaser pistol just for aesthetics?
I'm not talking about exploration at all when I type REPEATABLE content. I'm talking about the actual in-game content. When the devs said repeatable content at the Q&A they weren't talking about exploration either. They were talking about battlezones. They're gonna give you another big steaming plate of battlezone with the expansion.
If that's your thing, cool.
But it's not engaging story content.
They said a chunk of that ... will have to wait until after release.
I understand perfectly. Long time players will understand that Cryptic has consistently failed to earn the trust of the playerbase. And that lack of trust is why you see what you call "hate."
Enter ARC(the new deal)....and why PWE/Cryptic thinks the doom thread is so funny, sicking our own on us! anyone who has a problem or issue is shoved into the closet to be ridiculed by dedicated trolls!
You and the OP (who's 37)... I'm 57! All I can say is... you kids! SHEEESH :rolleyes:
Some most certainly have. If that was not you, then forgive me for unknowingly lumping you into that group.
Others want the ability to upgrade at a reduced cost, similar to the fleet module system currently in place. I certainly wouldn't be opposed to this... who wouldn't? (Although, buying a fleet ship isn't technically an "upgrade." It's a new ship, at a discount if you have the C-Store version AND your fleet has the proper shipyard.)
While we aren't getting this, either (again, bummer)... we are getting something, when they (Cryptic/PWE) are FULLY WITHIN THEIR RIGHTS as a company that WANTS MONEY to make you pay every last dime for it... like EA does every year with Madden NFL. This is a relevant point, because Madden is often the most popular console game, year after year. People still buy it. You want ANYTHING new, though? GOTTA PAY. Every year. No exceptions.
Cryptic/PWE doesn't seem to be interested in THAT level of TRIBBLE job, so we should be happy with (or at least take solace in) that fact.
There is ZERO evidence that this will be the case, or that T6 ships will be SO much better than the T5.5+ ships we will be able to get... which, by the way, was what the devs said will happen. "We will take care of you." While we don't know what this means, we are getting some form of system that will allow us to improve our T5.5 ships.
We know so little at this point. Why not wait and see before passing judgment?
I joined this game five minutes before season nine dropped, LOL... part of the problem on waiting FOUR YEARS for a Mac client to be released
I say this, too, having MANY complaints about the Mac client. (Try playing this game with no stereo sound.) I have plenty to gripe about in this game... and there are many others that have legit gripes, too.
Why play the game? I gave it a shot, and it's fun. I guess I'm just more of a forgiving optimist... and, my bar is set lower, because I'm looking for a fun Trek video game, not my own personal holodeck.
Given that I did not watch the livestream, I also can't speak to what the devs said (or didn't say) about what kinds of content are coming. That would not be fair of me.
Again, we may not see eye-to-eye on this... that's fine, I guess. I suppose those features will be "my thing." Admittedly, though, I haven't even reached endgame yet on my first toon (I will likely start Dyson stuff next week). I still have plenty to play through... and yes, even with the repetitive STFs, which can be boring. Fully admit that. I'm just not sure what you're expecting from a mission you've played through six, seven, or FIFTEEN times?
Yup, it ain't hard to figure out at all.
Because many of us who weren't waiting for a client for our preferred platform have been here long enough that "We will take care of you" is not an unknown quantity, but rather a "Yeah, we've heard that one before and we're basing our current reactions on how that's worked out before" quantity.
There's a lot of evidence that will be the case. The simple description that T6 ships will be better than T5 but that T5 will still be "competitive" demonstrates that T5 will be marginalized.
And since people who play this game LOVE their Defiants, Excelsiors, etc ... there's going to be a lot of criticism.
Saying that there's going to be criticism isn't really passing judgement. I'm not passing judgement on anything. Well I am being critical of their lack of content in their announcement. But that's all been posted in a different thread.
All I'm saying is ... they've put out contradictory statements, that at best confuse people and at worst create a host of criticism. And I understand the criticism. It makes sense to me. This isn't like some high fantasy MMO where people may like their shiny glowing sword from 2013, but are grudgingly OK with getting a NEW shiny glowing sword in 2014.
This is Star Trek. People are going to flip out if their Excelsior gets marginalized. And right now they keep saying T5 will be competitive, but T6 will be so awesome that people will want it. (That's paraphrasing, but that's what Geko said. T6 will be desirable).
That's a very convoluted way of saying marginalized.
This game hasn't been "stripped" of anything I like, and so far I still count as "people" (even though I'm not a corporation).
A specious argument and straw man logic. Build up a false scenario and take it down. Lock box and fleet ships have been end game best for years ... ever since they came online. Devs said they would continue to be the best. "That was the truth"
Now T6 is the best even though T5.x ships will be usable ... just like the Galaxy. "Now that is the truth!"
- Judge Aaron Satie
Aside from the fact that we don't know if they'll release a T6 Excelsior, Defiant, etc... I mean, this comment leaves room for either interpretation:
"Marginalized" means pushed aside, reduced, even forgotten about... at best, you're jumping the gun on all of that. There will be better ships out, of course... but, surely, you're not saying that a T5.5 ship with Mk XVI gear will be garbage?
Also, while it's fun to read about rumors, and even leaks (like the Xindi Lock Box)... I have my own rule of thumb NOT to believe something until I see the official announcement. That means dev blogs, patch notes, and obviously, the release itself. None of that is out yet. We still know very little.
LOL. Exactly what were the "slew" of missions again? Season 9 according to the devs was "light" on content due to X2. LOR brought a lot of content true. Season 8 and 9 had a couple of FE (1 every 4-6 months on average) and some new missions for the queues.
Btw, most of those died because they were too slow, boring and had poor rewards. You can see this for yourself by checking on the # queued. It is a little better now due to farming for mats but it is still pretty slow (even on prime time).
There is little inconvenient thing called reality ... sadly it can't be dismissed so easily!
- Judge Aaron Satie
Not everything has to be Fed, you know.
And where did that Zen come from? It magically appeared on the Dilithium Exchange? Dont be so dense.
hey im 18 and I'm in the same boat... i don't get the hate everyone has... I mean I do get their side of the complains, My point is, you don't have to be too young or too old, to understand... but after all it's just a game, and it's business like any other... aint it???
If those people didn't choose to spend their money on lockbox ships you wouldn't even have gotten a chance to play. They're financing your F2P experience.
So you're not only living off of those that chose to pay, but you're also bashing them for being concerned that something they payed for is getting taken away oder devalued? Great attitude. More like you and the game won't last another season.
My only reservation is that Cryptic has not demonstrated a high enough level of competence to build such an ambitious expansion without breaking what's already on Holodeck. Lag has become a serious problem on the STO server since S9.5, the crafting system still makes no sense, faction-specific missions are still inoperative, etc., etc. The rush for cash seems to always take priority to quality, despite Steve Jobs' wise counsel that "Quality is better than quantity; a home run is better than two doubles".
Savik - Vulcan Fed Temporal Sci
Dahar Masters Fleet: Alphal'Fa - Alien KDF Engineer Qun'pau - Rom/KDF Engineer D'nesh - Orion KDF Scientist Ghen'khan - Liberated KDF Tac
Welcome to StarBug Online - to boldly Bug where no bug has been before!
STO player since November 2013
Luckily i have been brwosing through the thread before starting to write.
Let me just add my 0,02ECs:
I'm over 35 and the only reason to play a MMO is because this one is about Star Trek.
I've grown up with TOS and later watching TNG, but i haven stopped there.
I am ok if new ships are introduced. BUT my problem is that Cryptics Starfleet designs are too often just bad.
They lack of nice looking proportions and often not even resemble Starfleet ships, nor they do work like they should.
Cryptics designs somtimes show good ideas, but they always have some element that makes them look awful.
Let's take the avenger for ex. Bulky and mucular, i'm ok with that.
The problem is the tiny saucer. It looks totally out of place, ruining the whole look of that ship. Even that wouldn't be so bad if that ship would come with a reasonable alternative saucer (a wider one to be accurate).
Or the Odyssey, which needs a pair of forward facing pylons, similar to the regent, to look balanced.
Another example are some Assault Cruiser pylons. Why on earth do they have holes?
And why can't there be just a alternative model without holes?
(I could say the same about the monarc pylons, btw.)
What is it with the (Fleet) Heavy Cruiser (Retrofit) nacelles pairs? Why do 2 of the 3 engineering hulls have to create a offset? It doesn't make the ship look interesting it looks awful.
I could write page over page about things like that, but i hope i could point out what i mean.
My point is: less experiments, more basic options, please. I don't want my ship look like modern art. I simply want some pleasing, good looking and balanced Starfleet ships.
Other games designers and MANY amateurs have done awesome ship designs, why is it so hard for Cryptics emplyees to create Starfleet ships that simply look good?
Now the new design concept (yes i am aware it is just a concept), doesn't look like a starfleet ship at all. Just show it to someone who doesn't play STO without saying anything, i bet no one would identify it as a Star Trek ship.
And thats my point, Cryptics designers try TOO HARD to reinvent the wheel, or they are simply not interested in it and create such awful designs out of lack of interest.
Why not employ someone who has worked for a Trek show before, like John Evans, Andrew Probert or Denise and Michael Okuda for example. Their designs and knowledge would certainly put STOs designs to a new (much better) level.
On the other hand, i think if Cryptics designers would just stop experimenting and try to create simply good looking Starfleet ships it would result in much better ship models.
This is only my opinion, no one is forced to share it or to agree.
Sorry for the wall of text.
(and sorry for my bad english)
So I'm actually holding off on discussing that one image we saw. I'm glad we got it leaked/posted. But my pitchfork is sharpened for a whole host of other things.
That said, is it a given that the new abilities that only new ships will have will actually be more powerful than the upgraded old ships? They could just be different, replacing existing abilities.