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PvE ... What's Next?
macronius
Member Posts: 2,526
Since Cryptic has clearly decided to destroy
1) Exploration
2) PvP
3) Crafting
4) Challenge and difficulty
5) Balance
6) Diversity in builds
7) FAW (soon?)
Please list the reasons that still draw you into this game? Seriously, I am looking for anything positive that's left to do here ... except grinding for something. Please no trolls. I am looking to understand the thinking of other side which still supports this game.
1) Exploration
2) PvP
3) Crafting
4) Challenge and difficulty
5) Balance
6) Diversity in builds
7) FAW (soon?)
Please list the reasons that still draw you into this game? Seriously, I am looking for anything positive that's left to do here ... except grinding for something. Please no trolls. I am looking to understand the thinking of other side which still supports this game.
"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censored, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."
- Judge Aaron Satie
- Judge Aaron Satie
Post edited by macronius on
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Holy cow - you are on a thread creating whirlwind !!
The next major change to come 1 day before patch:
- Fire-at-Will now has 100% chance to crit on each beam strike!
-Fire-at- will no longer drains weapon power.
-Fire-at-will now no longer has a cool-down
-Fire-at-will damage output is being increased 100%
-Fire-at-will has been given a 200% accuracy boost
-The Scimitar is being given a bonus 3 tactical console slots for 8 tactical lots - 13 total console slots.
-The scimitar Boff layout is being turned to 7 Cmdr Universal stations
And tpalelena would still cry that it's too hard to accomplish anything here.
I dunno. Habit maybe.
The game kinda got any semblance of fun sucked out the airlock around S9. I just couldn't generate the same level of enthusiasm for the game after that. The Summer event was nice, but after that...meh.
I loved the powerboards and swim trunks for my gorn.
The problem is, is any of that a realistic goal?
Star Trek: The Original Grind
Star Trek: The Next Grind
Star Trek: Deep Space Grind
Star Trek: Voyage to the Grind
To be honest ive been asking myself that very question with all the bunk thats been going on latley and your list is pretty much where im at aswell.
Ive been splitting my time between STO and war thunder when i get done with my daily grinds i usually wander to war thunder for actual fun.
^^^ But this is why i still play STO its the only trek game of its ilk in town if a new one were to come out id be there ASAP.
Would go from...
5x vs 1 & 10x vs 2
...to...
8x vs 2 & 12x vs 3
...while finally fixing the Accuracy Overflow issue, eh?
No inside info there - just pure speculation.
Time will only tell!
I dunno, Cryptic hasn't destroyed the foundation of combat in this game yet, and all of us seem to be doing the same old tiresome missions, but playing with good company seems to make the rest of the game's faults seem farther away.
But even this has it's limit. At the rate Cryptic is going, this will not last. At least not here. We could simply migrate to another community and find something more worthwhile to invest our free time in.
Everyone keeps complaining about power creep. I don't see it. Sure I see new side upgrades that may have better synergy than what currently exists in specific situations. I see mechanic changes that end up increasing the relative power of this or that. But I don't see a single direct way to progress any of my characters nor have I since the reputation trait change.
Gear wise the bar was set long ago with fleet gear. Ship wise once again with fleet ships. Sure because the game has no semblance of balance when they release ships with more tactical console slots, or a universal console with +DMG I can replace a relatively useless engineering console some see power creep I just see a side upgrade option added into an already unbalanced system.
While I personally disagree with the reasoning it was reasonable to remove it as the actual content was terrible.
Was always dead to me. I don't PvP in a PvE focused MMO. I get my PvP fix in games that are actually designed for PvP sorry.
Suffers from the side upgrade problem currently. Also has a terrible presentation from a system/mechanic perspective. However old crafting was pointless and this version at least has potential and offers a few character trait options outside of lockboxes. It's meh.
Is never anything beyond an illusion in PvE games to begin with and hasn't existed since F2P launch other than a few things released since. I'm sure they will toss a new bone soon for those who seek it.
Name one game system that was ever balanced in STO since F2P? And I only say since F2P because that is when I started. Boff abilities have never been balanced, consoles have never been balanced, skills, captain careers, boff traits, weapon mods, I could go on and on. They all fall into one of three categories and always have. Overpowered, newbie trap, situationally good/OP.
The only reason diversity has ever existed in STO, atleast in PvE, is ignorance. When the character build choices are distilled to the core they are purely mathematical. In that situation one thing will always be better than the other even if only by .1%.
Infact you could argue because of the low difficulty of content build diversity is at an all time high. Mostly because you can bring nearly and wacky build you want and as long as the group isn't terribad you will still win.
Exploration. People have spent the last 4.5 years bytching that what STO has is NOT exploration - they have said repeatedly that this is not a Star Trek game because it DOES NOT HAVE exploration. How could they destroy something you, yourself, have said many times over the years that the game does not have? Removing a system that generates only 6 missions over and over is not exploration.
PvP. Cryptic has done nothing with PvP for over 4 years. So how did they destroy it? At least wait for them to do something with PvP before claiming it is destroyed.
Crafting: The Crafting system has been changed multiple times over they years. The pre-9.5 system was not essentially used for anything but Aegis sets. It was a dead system that few people actually utilized. Whether or not the new system will prove to be better in the long-run is yet to be seen, but the old system was TRIBBLE for 4 years. Of course most MMO Crafting systems are crappy.
Challenge and Difficulty and Balance. I have spent years on this forum listening to complaint after complaint about "power creep." I have seen hundreds of posts about how nothing is balanced and you can alpha strike people and NPCs into oblivion in seconds. Power creep and Balance are not a new issues. They have been going on since they nerfed Science and added the Excelsior to the C-Store back around Season 1.
Diversity in Builds. When has there ever been any? If you're a PvPer you end up using all the same Key Binds, all the same equipment (Leech, etc), all the same Skills (A2B), etc. That is not a new concept in any MMO. Really it is only the PvEers who have diversity in their builds because they are not trying to keep up with Player X in Ker'rat - and because in PvE any build can be successful.
FAW: I cannot comment on it as I have not seen it. Change is not always bad - but many rebel against change simply because they have become accustomed to what they have always done. Either way it probably will not make the game any more unbalanced then it already is for the majority of people who do not PvP.
Admittedly, the FAW thing is more about the fact that BO got a heavy buff. Hawk mentioned they are adjusting things so that FAW is less the end-all-be-all that it currently tends to be, and will likely soon undergo alterations itself to be more AoE than targeted, so it won't be as devestating against single opponents. The current consternation for the PvP crowd is that BO can now be worked into a guaranteed oneshot with a DBB CritD build. Honestly, though, it's one more vape build in an arena filled with vape builds, and the occasional alphastrike hit'n'run player.
Im one of the proponents of the "This game needs MORE exploration" side of the conflict
i have said from the first time i played STO this game lacked exploration and need more to feel like trek.
I do understand about the griping and complaining portion of your comment i feel the same way there have been players flip flopping one momment they want more exploration the next they dont.
But there are some like myself who feel strongly that this game lacks exploration and now doesnt just lack but its missing completley.
Im hoping that expansion 2 will bring some well needed exploration to this game there is plenty of ways to open the delta quad through exploration missions i mean voyager didnt se and map everything in the delta quad.
Anyways i know this is a moot point where cryptic is concerned i doubt highly we will see anything along the lines of true exploration missions aside from doff assignments.
- Judge Aaron Satie
I knew the OP was baiting. Here's proof.
It's 'cue' by the way.
whats so funny he think this new crafting going to be good in the soo called long run while calling other mmos crafting TRIBBLE sorry wow crafting not TRIBBLE swtor crafting now TRIBBLE why?? im not time gated for over a year or more to max it out dont have stupid doffing tied to it dilithium skins tied heavily to it just to speed things up oh i could go on and on............
sorry this crafting compared to wow sorry hand down wow win for being player friendly
oh and dont play the lottery for my gear
imo i think some here are so desperate to fly a star trek ship they are willing to turn a blind eye to everything cryptic does wrong again imo
system Lord Baal is dead
Excuse me for making a homonym mistake. And how is calling attention to defending the indefensible baiting. Every single time I read one of his rebuttals it is in defense of Cryptic no matter what. I may critize a good deal but it is always based on a rational argument.
Can you really tell me that players getting lost and install size and not meeting quality standards are legit excuses? It was all to nerf material drops. Just like the EC nerf is about limiting people from profiting from vendoring crafting garbage.
- Judge Aaron Satie
- Judge Aaron Satie
ya i think of what they did like what EA does to f2p players put up so many blocks to where one get fed up and leaves or starts handing out money
system Lord Baal is dead
I bet you it makes them a ton of money until they exhaust the fanbase. Then it is move on to the next IP. It is very sad really.
- Judge Aaron Satie
thats if they are lucky to get another one as big a trek imo i dont think they ever will be that lucky again imho dont see how they got it in the first place ive seen all cryptic games nothing to write home about
system Lord Baal is dead
Exploration has been a joke since the start of this game. It was the same missions recycled over and over again. Honestly, I am glad they got rid of it.
PvP was never my forte, and will never be. Mainly because I can't stand the childish behavior of a majority of PvP'ers when they either have to gloat or whine as much as possible.
I am happy for the crafting change. I have gone through all 3 incarnations of the crafting system and much prefer the new one over the others. The only reason I used the previous one was for the Aegis set and to get my low-level toons some good gear early on. And I only had 1 toon maxed out as it was a waste to do it on the others.
With the power creep currently in the game, the only challenge is when you face other players.
I would much rather have a game/AI challenge us enough that we have learn how to squeeze out everything we can to defeat them.
Wonder if they can incorporate the AI from F.E.A.R. in to this game????
Balance never really happened in the Movies or any of the 4 (ok, 5) Series. Ships were either too overpowered or under-powered against their enemies.
And Balance will never truly exist in this game either. Ship setups are constantly changing, especially with the FBOTM (Favored Build of the Month), as new consoles/weapons/sets come out.
The only balance I really see is on the ground. Just wish we could fire from cover instead of having to stand out in the open as we fire at them.
(Battlefield Series or MOHO would be a good example of using a Cover System, and shouldn't tax the game engine any more than the current setup)
Diversity, as someone already stated, only happens when it comes to PvE build as nothing truly special is required to defeat a target. Even with the Undine and the Bio-Energy weaponry, all it did was introduce a way to kill them faster.
I've gone in with a torp build on my Risan Covette and am taking them out faster than with some of my other builds. And this is only using 1 Mk XI Green Phaser DBB up front. Only other 'energy' weapon would be the KCB.
In PvP, everyone eventually adopts the same build until someone creates a build that will defeat the previous one on a constant basis, then everyone copies that build. It's a never-ending procession.
As a member of Star Trek Battles, and our strive to recreate the shows in game as much as possible (within the limits that we still have fun), I believe most of us has gotten away from using Tactical AoE attacks. I usually slot 1 copy of Torpedo Spread for when someone uses a Grav-Well to cluster targets, but other than that, I target one, destroy it, then move on.
As for my main reason that I keep coming back here instead of going to other games like SWTOR, WoW, even other PWE games, is that I am a Trekkie. Do I like some of the things that Cryptic/Atari/PWE have done with the game, no. But that can be said of anything in life. I do enjoy most of the changes, however, and welcome a majority of them. On those I don't care for, I have spoken in numerous other topics on this forum and will not bring them up here.
Other than that, I'll go with this game is supposed to be about, Role Playing with friends and others.
Our Battles
He makes some very good points. Instead of just dismissing him out of hand because he doesn't jump on board your bandwagon, why don't you try refuting or discussing the points he raised?
If it was to nerf material drops why did they bother putting crafting materials are rewards for queued events? I can't recall the last time I used the nebulas for anything other than duty officer missions. The only thing I dislike about the change to the nebulas is I can't reshuffle my duty officer mission choices for the nebulas. The queue is usually where I end up, so for me that change is a plus for crafting material gain.
People are profiting from crafting materials just fine....check the exchange.
As for the EC vendor prices being changed for trash loot, it was a long time coming....where do you think the inflation on the exchange is coming from? They need now to drop some major EC sinks to pull EC out players hands without punishing them.
Not excuses, logical reasons. And we wonder why they don't bother presenting the ideas behind various changes to the game...
But yes quality standards are a good reason. Instal size does matter. Especially as the game continues to get larger with every expansion sometimes you gotta trim the fat a bit so to speak. Granted I think it was a bit, premature, but I acknowledge the reasoning is valid even if I don't entirely agree with it.
We want to be 100% honest now I see. If exploration was left as is then yes bots would have completely destroyed any crafting material market. And I'm sure the foundry EC farms were considered a side benefit of the great EC nerf, something else that was a bot target.
Not seeing those as bad things. I can still create (yes create not exchange) EC just as quickly and gather crafting materials. Granted those methods would be slightly more difficult to create bots for and require a bit more up front investment/effort to get good returns. So yup even good on that end.
...
Then, when he delivers a reply to each of your points, you respond thusly:
if it looks like a duck, walks like a duck and sounds like a duck...
If it's so obviously indefensible, then you weren't actually looking to understand the thinking of the other side. You were looking for validation of your opinions.
Cryptic, as a company, will pursue whatever strategy it feels will improve the bottom line. That's their job. Satisfying the few forum posters that are unhappy is not a requirement for that.
At the end of the day, you, me, and all the other posters here are unimportant, as long as Cryptic's data tells them that they are in the black.
If I become unhappy with the direction a game takes, I'll leave. That's the only metric any company cares about. No players = no money.
Simple.
The game has NEVER had exploration. The Genesis System was not exploration. It was 6 missions which had random cosmetic changes. Scan 5 plants. Scan 5 tombstones, etc. There was nothing to explore within that system. For the last 2.5 years its only purpose was to give a quick dose of Dilithium. I could usually do a daily cycle in under 10 minutes - especially if you got back-to-back scan 5 ships or Gather Data. As far as systems go it was about as complex as Pacman - and a thousand times less enjoyable then Packman.
The game had the most boring and useless Crafting system I have ever seen. The only useful thing to Craft was the Aegis set; and it was completely over-shadowed by various Rep gear. It was a system that only newbs used because everyone else understood how crappy it was. I am not saying the new system is better. I'm simply saying that old system sucked - and there have been plenty of posts about how much it sucked over the years.
You want to say that Exploration sucked in this game? I agree with you 100%. The Genesis System was not the answer, and it was an eye sore.
You want to say that Crafting sucked in this game. I agree with you 100%. I have not Crafted a single item in over 2 years. I doubt I am alone in that. I suppose you Crafted every day pre-9.5? Do I think the new system is better? I have no toyed with it enough to know; but I know it could not be any worse then a system I had no desire to use for years. But the best thing about Crafting is that if you ignored it pre-9.5 you can continue to ignore it post-9.5. You are not forced to Craft.
Do I think the game has too much power creep and is imbalanced? Since I do not PvP, no. I do not care if I can one-shot an NPC ship in a mission. But I have always thought the game was imbalanced. It was imbalanced at Launch and it has continued to be ever since, but as PvEer I do not care.
STO is not a perfect game. It is an average game at best - something I have said many times over the last 4.5 years. But I do not think it is any more broken today then it was pre-PWE. It was just as broken during the Atari era. So I completely disagree with your notion that they are "destroying" the game now. It is the same broken game it always has been - only now there are a lot more things to do in it.
At some point you will need to simply come to the realization that STO is not the game for you and move on. Right now STO is the spouse you hate but are too afraid to divorce. Trust me, if you just get the testicular fortitude to get the divorce you life will become much happier. Right now you are just being abused and abusing in return. Get the divorce.
and ya old system sucked why you ask because cryptic didnt add anything to it for 3 years be like wow never added anything to there crafting again blind eye
and ppl saying move on leave game one day you going to log on and see you and a hand full of ppl are all thats left because everyone else moved on what is so funny this all looks like a repeat of SWG
system Lord Baal is dead
You forgot the Ping man you forgot the frakking Ping what about the Ping man everyone forgets the Ping since Pong came out lol
So anyways you ever hear the one a bout the klingon the vulcan and the gorn in a thong?
As for the game eventually shutting down. Yes, it will eventually go the way of the dodo. That could happen for a hundred different reasons, though, not just people leaving. In the corporate world you never know what might happen. Heck, a couple of years from now Disney could decide to buy all the rights to Star Trek and give the MMO license to Bioware. Anything can happen, just ask SWG.
But I will not cry myself to sleep over the fact that I lost a game I played a few hours per week. It is a hobby, not my life. In the end it is just a game. I own it no more emotional attachment then I do my golf clubs.
system Lord Baal is dead
"Logical reasons"? What a joke. Install size was a horrible excuse. Exploration missions were only downloaded when you entered the mission due to on demand patching, something that was enabled by default.
Players getting lost in the exploration clusters and missions? How hard would it be to create some hints or tutorials? Raise the level it required before a player could enter an exploration cluster or mission and have the player complete a tutorial mission before he could accept any exploration missions.
Yes, the exploration missions were bad, often buggy, and incredibly repetitive. So Cryptic should improve the missions or create something to take their place instead of just removing it completely. I don't think players were angry that the exploration missions were being removed, but they were frustrated that nothing was going to take their place.
If the exploration clusters and missions were left in the game, bots would destroy the crafting materials market? Oh, no, they would flood the exchange with worthless common, uncommon, and the occasional rare crafting materials. The only crafting materials worth anything are only available from PVE queued missions and the C-Store pack.
Cryptic nerfed the EC value of most items to push new players toward purchasing Master Keys to sell on the exchange for EC.