Reaching level 2 = doing some number of diverse and unique missions.
Grinding = doing the same small subset of missions or tasks repetitively, inciting boredom and lack of enthusiasm.
Leveling up involves story, learning new skills, and seeing things you haven't seen before.
Grinding involves sleepwalking through the same small set of missions or tasks the same way you did yesterday, and the day before, and the week before, and the month before.
Sounds like most games I've played. Seriously... guess what leveling in Pok
A 6 month grind with 3 months for alts or 4 and 2 i think would be better as a start, then maybe add levels and more options with every 3rd or 4th season ie add more mods and such. I have nothing against them adding a dil or zen aspect to it since it is ftp and requires money to run, but in its current state it is ludicrous. They just decided to build the house before the foundation was poured and can't believe no one wants to live in it.
The mat requirements alone will add the necessary gates in crafting to stretch it out. There is no need to implement a system where ~85% or so of the players will say F**k that and do something else.
Even if they would have implemented it to level 10 with Aegis being possible as vr then down the road add the ur version with 15. Instead we get bludgeoned with a nerf bat that I don't think has stopped being swung since 22 July.
I hate to say it, but I most definitely don't wish them luck. My hope is that the game dies as soon as possible so someone else can make a Star Trek MMO that does justice to the franchise.
This game scored lower than any other game I've reviewed over the years, and it just keeps getting worse. Let it die.
People keep saying that, but why would this game going down in flames convince CBS that a different Star Trek MMO is worth greenlighting?
What other Dev studio would
a) Get the capital to make one, if a previous Trek-themed MMO already failed?
b) Be capable of doing a Star Trek MMO that made money and didn't suck?
c) Be willing and able to convince CBS to give them a license?
d) Want to touch that project and the amount of nerd rage they'd have to deal with on a regular basis?
I think some people believe that if they repeat it often enough, it will magically happen. Losing STO for any reason other than the natural cycle of the game winding down could very well mean that we get no Star Trek game at all for a very long time, if ever.
I don't want to see that take place. I like STO, in general. There are still parts of the game I've never/rarely played and if I could get my boys off Minecraft they'd be playing STO with me. I've tried Champs and NW, but I keep coming back to STO. There are no other MMO's out there I care about.
My views may not represent those of Cryptic Studios or Perfect World Entertainment. You can file a "forums and website" support ticket here Link: How to PM - Twitter @STOMod_Bluegeek
I've been around this game now long enough to see that the Dev team that runs STO is just plain incompetent. They're not capable of producing content that isn't heavily bugged. I've never seen as many bugs in any other game I've played, nor gotten as many server DCs. Cryptic is quick to fix any bug that affects their bottom line ie. the supposed "slotting multiple crafting xp projects bug" but leave other game breaking bugs going for months or years.
Star Trek has a very loyal fan base with a lot of expendable income. I'm confident that if STO went under it would get picked up within a reasonable amount of time by another dev/publisher. There's no less than two other Star Trek video games currently under development and scheduled for release. Their still making new Star Trek movies. So, the money is there. If CBS can see that it would be profitable, that's all that matters. Anything else is pointless speculation.
Personally, I'd love for one of the major players out there to make a brand new Star Trek MMO and would be happy to wait for it.
People keep saying that, but why would this game going down in flames convince CBS that a different Star Trek MMO is worth greenlighting?
What other Dev studio would
a) Get the capital to make one, if a previous Trek-themed MMO already failed?
b) Be capable of doing a Star Trek MMO that made money and didn't suck?
c) Be willing and able to convince CBS to give them a license?
d) Want to touch that project and the amount of nerd rage they'd have to deal with on a regular basis?
I think some people believe that if they repeat it often enough, it will magically happen. Losing STO for any reason other than the natural cycle of the game winding down could very well mean that we get no Star Trek game at all for a very long time, if ever.
I don't want to see that take place. I like STO, in general. There are still parts of the game I've never/rarely played and if I could get my boys off Minecraft they'd be playing STO with me. I've tried Champs and NW, but I keep coming back to STO. There are no other MMO's out there I care about.
Well, EA/BW took on the Star Wars IP and basically caused SWG to be sunsetted even though it was promised that they could coexist (and they could have). IMHO TOR does suck, but a lot of that is because I'm not a fan of KOTOR time frame, but it does make a boatload of money because it adopted a FTP model (it had to).
On another note why WOULD someone else want to take on the Star Trek IP?
1. The IP will generate money period, just like SW.
2. They can put together a model that could get enough backing to get a green light.
3. If CBS thinks they can make money on it they will issue a license. It doesn't matter what the IP is.
4. Nerd Rage does amplify based upon the IP. This crafting update is going to reach the levels SOE saw with the NGE. This crafting grind is worst than grinding a tailor pre-cu in SWG. But what 99% of the companies don't do is abate the nerd rage by responding with why they did what they did that caused the nerd rage and plus they don't take the time to sift through the drivel and the trolling to get the good, thoughtful, feedback that can make the community feel involved and listened too.
5. The biggest issue I see with today's games involving a third party IP like SW or ST is that the suits get in the way because of the dollar signs in their eyes and not realizing that most of the people that play these types of games are fans of the IP not just another gamer. This is WHY they need to produce a better product than the other guy. Not just another WoW clone (like TOR) that everyone quit after the first month or so because no one cared about the voice acting they just wanted a lot of diverse content to feel immersed in the IP they love.
Honestly this game is dying. Not for the lack of people willing to play but for the short sighted moronic money hungry trash that has been put into the game. I have played a lot of Star Trek games and Birth Of the Federation has better R&D then STO and its all research.
I can not understand why the people at PWE/Cryptic would do what they have to this game and expect people to keep playing and paying for what is on a huge part a total failure of PWE/Cryptic to make this game better in any which way.
Yes so many people are mad at the Dev's and they have a right to be. Tribble has become useless. We go on there look and test things and nada. We tell them no this is bad. The next day its out and people leave the game. Vet's of the game get sickened and have to go play something else for a while. They treat Star Trek players like they wee stupid... O we better take this map out its to hard to exit. I am pretty sure a Star Trek fan has something to do with the design of the Tec they abused in pushing out patch 9.5 all faith if there was any left in the Dev's are gone. Honestly I doubt any of them are fans of star trek just underlings that do what they are told. I know of no fan that would have put this much restriction on Star Trek.
A lot of people have good ideas about this game and I have heard of no one being contacted by the Dev's to expand on their idea. I have how ever heard of other MMO's such as EVE online doing that and they have run a lot longer then Star Trek from what I was told make 100 x more money. What can you say other then they want this game to go under. The fans want to keep it alive but like one person said "don't grind us to death" which after you finish the story line the game is a slow solid grind to the death.
Star Trek should be an open sand box completely if you want to make money selling ships and have a great R&D system then let us craft ships and any thing else in the Star Trek universe. Let us explore and have some over sight in the game. Watch what we like and don't like don't put in STF's that no one ques up for and I am pretty sure you could take out all but 15 or so STFs and no one would notice.
Every one here try's to tell the Dev's something in their own way its just a sham the people that are trying to save this game are never heard and the people who make the game don't care and do what they will to there own down fall. So yes to those who always type DOOOOoommmmm I am starting to see how you think that. To us Vets of the game I pray we are not the only ones left sitting in our star bases talking about our once proud fleets and about the old days when they finely turn off the servers on us.
I used to think that no company would purposely drive a product into the ground, especially one that they put countless hours and resources into.
The more I see the gated content, the money grabs, and the alienation of the playerbase, it's hard not to shake the feeling that they are just bleeding this game dry, doing an EA on it like EA did to Command and Conquer, Dead Space, etc.
Like many that have posted here, my fleet never lacked for being able to field a team. Rare was the time when no one at all was on. Now, there are only 2-3 other actives, the rest having given up and left. I often find myself soloing in a fleet. Recruiting is next to impossible, with the vast majority of fleets in the same position, and not a lot of players to go around.
The fact the people in charge will never read these just makes the situation sadder. It shows they don't care. In fact I am sure they don't. They sit around patting themselves on the back for adding a new brake to progress or removing content "to improve the game".
As long as the money flows, the most important part of the game, we the customer, will continue to be ignored.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Cryptic: If you think the bugs are bad, wait until you see our fixes!
Recruiting is next to impossible, with the vast majority of fleets in the same position, and not a lot of players to go around.
Personally I don't think it's a lack of players, more a lack of courtesy (not saying you are one of the culprits) and poor recruitment methods.
I see on a daily basis a huge amount of un-fleeted players so there are plenty of people around, but what I experience every time I log onto a low level character is constant fleet invite spam, i'm used to it now, but I'm pretty sure it annoys the hell out of new players, it did when I was new.
An annoyed new player is not going to accept a random fleet invite form someone who hasn't even had the common courtesy to have a chat with them first and they will generally ignore it until it stops.
New players at low levels just want to run around the early game and learn how the basics work, they don' want all these windows to pop up and disturb them.
I'd say ideally it's best to wait until they're in their mid twenties and comfortable with the basics and solo side of things before trying to recruit them, but unfortunately due to all the ninja invites they get by that time they're just fed up with the whole fleet invite side of things that their attitude is if they want to join a fleet they will find one and join it and no amount of invitation is going to work on them.
Recruiters are shooting themselves in the foot and making it harder by sending out ninja invites.
I can't speak for everyone else but I have put enough money into this game but this move by Cryptic to try and get me to put more money in has the reverse effect. My wallet is closed.
Why can't we get some things for FREE?
Looking for more info on Dilithium Rising? Click on the link below:
cant zen be earned in-game other than the dilithium exchange? or could a free ship token be rewarded every 100 days? I own a Assault Cruiser, Ha'pax warbird, Vo'qov carrier, Advanced escort, Ha'feh Assault warbird, and of course the risan cruiser. They're good ships, I would like a scimitar, galaxyx, bortasqu, avenger, and haakona as a 100 day reward.
P.S: What is the com station on defera and how can I go there? Or do I have to unlock more task force omega tiers?
Captain Joseph Riker, U.S.S. Odyssey==General V'Mar, U.S.S. Blackwater-A==Admiral Laura Holmes, U.S.S. Forward Unto Dawn Grand Master Thotok, son of Koloth, I.K.S. Sompek==Dahar Master Shanara, I.K.S. Balth'Quv Admiral R'Tath V'Tirex, R.R.W. Dhael Glohha'enh==Commander Ta'eth Korval, R.R.W Hachae ch'Rhian==Admiral Vranuk, R.R.W Delevhas
I can't speak for everyone else but I have put enough money into this game but this move by Cryptic to try and get me to put more money in has the reverse effect. My wallet is closed.
Why can't we get some things for FREE?
Please, more free stuff
Captain Joseph Riker, U.S.S. Odyssey==General V'Mar, U.S.S. Blackwater-A==Admiral Laura Holmes, U.S.S. Forward Unto Dawn Grand Master Thotok, son of Koloth, I.K.S. Sompek==Dahar Master Shanara, I.K.S. Balth'Quv Admiral R'Tath V'Tirex, R.R.W. Dhael Glohha'enh==Commander Ta'eth Korval, R.R.W Hachae ch'Rhian==Admiral Vranuk, R.R.W Delevhas
cant zen be earned in-game other than the dilithium exchange? or could a free ship token be rewarded every 100 days? I own a Assault Cruiser, Ha'pax warbird, Vo'qov carrier, Advanced escort, Ha'feh Assault warbird, and of course the risan cruiser. They're good ships, I would like a scimitar, galaxyx, bortasqu, avenger, and haakona as a 100 day reward.
P.S: What is the com station on defera and how can I go there? Or do I have to unlock more task force omega tiers?
You can buy a 5000 bundle pack from the cstore just rading dil for zen with 6 alts just in 1 month. Dont you think that is easy enough?? that thing you asking is never going to happen. Because it is not needed and will bury the f2p standards to the ground and because there is no way in a f2p game that sort of mechanics will be implemented. Enough that you can get zen trading dilithium. You cant even do that in several f2p mmorpgs.
The comm station on Defera is useless. You cant use it. It is supossed to be an expansion that was planed years ago to be included, but in the end, was abandoned (as a lot of more things in STO).
We get lots of things for free. I've gotten more free stuff from STO in the last 18 months than I got since the day I started subscribing (before F2P).
I rather wish there were more things I could actually buy outright with real money instead of grind for, to tell the truth. At this point in my life, I actually have a bit of disposable income and less time.
I'll probably enrage a lot of people who will claim I'm into P2W, but I'd rather just buy stuff without lockboxes or a daily login to play some mini-game for tokens. I could care less about accumulating Dilithium. Just let me buy the dang thing with Zen already so I can actually play the dang game when I have the time instead of grinding something I don't want to do. I'm not a power-gamer... I just like the toys
But Crafting/R&D?
No. I get that. Like Fleets, it's supposed to take time by design. And I'm basically cool with that.
If the math projections people are making bear out in reality, then yeah, getting to level 15 in one school is too grindy, let alone all of them. And yes, existing level 50 characters should have been grandfathered in at least a little bit. (I don't call what they did 'grandfathering'; giving us an extra slot and/or extra levels would've been a good start.)
But other than that, I've got too much time and money invested in this game to walk away now. Even if I never give Cryptic one more zen, I'm here until the bitter end as long as there's a reason for me to log in. Still lots of Foundry missions I've never played. And if they make something for the C-Store that I actually want to buy, I will.
In the meantime, I'll use R&D when I feel like it. I won't get to level 20 in every school, and I won't be the first kid on the block able to sell the goodies for a 5000% markup. Okay.
There's another thread floating around here about how people don't feel any motivation to log in and play. I totally get that.
But there was a time when I got really excited about the possibilities with STO. So many directions they could've taken it, and back then we actually had some idea about where the Devs wanted to go with it.
Ah, Stahl used to drive us nuts hinting about what was coming up, new features they were considering adding. We had dialogue with the devs. What? You want to do one new FE a week? Are you crazy? (Turns out, the answer was yes.)
Then came the Atari Dark Ages. The Devs were too starved for resources to do, well, anything. It all finally culminated in Cryptic working on F2P in secret, unable to tell us what they were doing or why, while PWE was waiting in the wings. And we, in our collective rage, set fire to the forums. Trust was lost on both sides and it's soured the milk ever since.
But I remember what it was like before.
Don't write off exploration. Don't write off new PvP. Expect them to invest in the Foundry. Expect more features in the Gateway. I know Kestrel's got plot ideas rolling around in her head that just need the resources to make them happen.
Whatever it is, keep asking for it (politely, please). Maybe we won't get it. There are a lot of things we never got. There are other things we did get that we never expected.
I will continue to submit to the powers-that-be that they'd better develop a stomach for letting release dates slip when something's not quite ready, and that they'd get a better result if they'd seek our input on potential new features way, way in advance while there's still time to act on it. That would go a long way. They don't have to reveal everything. We like surprises, when they're nice and shiny.
On our part (the players)... Stuff breaks. Welcome to the wonderful world of computer programming. It breaks, and hopefully it gets fixed. If you can find a workaround in the meantime, do that. At least it's still in active development and you're not depending on it to keep your boss happy. And when it's working, remember that it's free to play, but it ain't free for Cryptic to keep the lights on. They have to figure out how to make money with this thing and some of their ideas are not going to work very well.
And if you have to stop playing... yes, do that. I did, for awhile. Came back in when I liked what I was seeing and haven't looked back so far. If I hadn't liked what I saw... I wouldn't have come back. That's okay too. There are events and things I have opted out of because I didn't care about them. This too is a metric they can use.
My views may not represent those of Cryptic Studios or Perfect World Entertainment. You can file a "forums and website" support ticket here Link: How to PM - Twitter @STOMod_Bluegeek
Rather disapointed in all the recent changes myself, I was in Beta, Bought LTS, Maxed out my crafting, and now, all that work... gone. Now I can't even craft so much as a paperclip. TRIBBLE over the community isn't the way to make money and now I decided to shelve STO. I didn't take all that time farming mats to raise my crafting to have everything reset to 0.
STO "Was" one of my favorite games, but thanks to Cryptic/PWE its just another waste of money now. If you were trying to kill your own game, then I think you're on the right path now. Whats next? Restart all of everyones "Captains" (VA's, RA's. etc.) to 0 next?
Fleet Admiral Nyte T'challa-United Federation of Planets-Task Force Draco-Tactical "No matter where you go, there you are." "I found a bug in Beta, Cryptic squished it. STO Founder and Proud LTS member."
I can't speak for everyone else but I have put enough money into this game but this move by Cryptic to try and get me to put more money in has the reverse effect. My wallet is closed.
Why can't we get some things for FREE?
I don't want things for free. I want things that are worth buying.
cant zen be earned in-game other than the dilithium exchange? or could a free ship token be rewarded every 100 days? I own a Assault Cruiser, Ha'pax warbird, Vo'qov carrier, Advanced escort, Ha'feh Assault warbird, and of course the risan cruiser. They're good ships, I would like a scimitar, galaxyx, bortasqu, avenger, and haakona as a 100 day reward.
P.S: What is the com station on defera and how can I go there? Or do I have to unlock more task force omega tiers?
LOL, no offense but even subscribers dont get free ships until ONE THOUSAND days. and we get 500 zen per month....no offense, im not entitled, only been lifer for a month.....but your idea would put cryptic completely out of business. assume 2.5k players...they would be giving out ~$218,000 based on your idea, and there are far more than 2.5k players.
Rather disapointed in all the recent changes myself, I was in Beta, Bought LTS, Maxed out my crafting, and now, all that work... gone. Now I can't even craft so much as a paperclip. TRIBBLE over the community isn't the way to make money and now I decided to shelve STO. I didn't take all that time farming mats to raise my crafting to have everything reset to 0.
STO "Was" one of my favorite games, but thanks to Cryptic/PWE its just another waste of money now. If you were trying to kill your own game, then I think you're on the right path now. Whats next? Restart all of everyones "Captains" (VA's, RA's. etc.) to 0 next?
No offense....but the old system took about 1 hour to max on defera...not cryptic's fault you didnt know that
Not that we have to relevel, not that we have to relevel 8 schools now either. But ...
that it takes 2.070.000XP to reach level 20 in ONE school
that we therefor are supposed to queue a de facto daily assignment for 345 days in a row to get one school maxed
that we alternatively are supposed to spend 18.000 dilithium to instantly finish that assignement amounting to a total of more than 6 million dilithium to max out one school
that there are 8 schools but a maximum of 5 simultaneous r&d slots
that you actively now start to ruin the game by inserting pay2finish buttons
... THAT is making me angry.
Dear perfectworld, I have already spent several hundret dollars on this game (lifetime sub and bought my fair share of zen after f2p to get ships, slots, etc.), so if the deal is right I am willing to pay.
Right now however, especially with the riddiculous requirements and limitations and the browser-game worthy pay2finish buttons with obscene dilithium costs this game is feeling like a bad browser game not an mmo.
I am here to play STO not STville, thank you.
Too bad cryptic could not make it on its own, now I have to endure perfectworld to play STO. This is nothing more than a low ripoff - even worse than the lockboxes - and precisely the reason why I never have touched any perfectworld games and exept for STO never ever will play anything connected to this company.
Sorry been a couple of days since I could get back to this...
Bluegeek: thanks for piping in. That was a very well thought out reply and I too remember back before the dark Atari days when we had an actual dialog with the Devs. That was when I had real hopes for this game, and the feeling of the community was very positive and honestly it was easy to team, there wasn't a lot of griefing and people were generally just pleased to be playing some Trek...
After those dark times, when the Devs went quiet and wouldn't talk to us no matter what, the tenor of the devolpment changed. While we could get excited over new content or story, it was always carrying with it a desperate "gimmie" plea involving either incredibly high Dilithium costs, (our time, or our money).
Also, I meant Fleet Advanced AP weapons (my bad)
Anyway, Ran some numbers for you all... Just so you can see the cost they are asking for in bald numbers.
A Generous (as in a bit high) exchange rate on the Dilithium Market would be 160... (it is currently sitting at 155-157) which is where I ran these numbers.
2000 Zen is = to $20.00
= 320000 Dilithium
The cost in dilithium to skip the time gate immediately for 1 school is a staggering 20,700,000:eek: (That is immediate use of the skip ability(20,000 D) for each train netting 2000xp each time, requiring 2,070,000xp to reach 20)
the overall cost, in real world money, to skip the time gate...
$1293.75
PER SCHOOL
This is what I have a problem with. That number is simply OUTRAGEOUSLY staggering.
I could understand $100, or $250
but, nearly $1300, Per school, that's a used car, or a house payment, per school.
Cryptic must really think they're players are the well to do. I for one am not made of that kind of money. I am barely scrapping by as it is and to see this kind of time gate put up, and then INCREASED to make it so that I can't even unlock this stuff by concetrating research on a school. This means that you are making an incredible distinction between the Pay Fors and the Wait Fors...
People who pay for the trainings, will earn those weapons and that advantage far earlier, as soon as now actually, and that will make an impact in the game. It will change the rankings in PVE encounters like Crystalline entity, it will forever wipe the face of PVP, as this is literally Pay 2 Win that everyone has so long be moaned. And all the way, we see the lead dev, laugh at us and tell us that he doesn't see constructive criticisms that took up over 30 pages on the Tribble forums. Good criticisms too, that had examples, and suggestions on what to do to fix the issues.
Instead it was implemented according to someone's vision of what would be, and well when that happens against the will of a game community it is oft times disasterous.
This is in canon suppose to be the great rush R&D project, the big push. Our slots are suppose to be research capabilities of our personal crews and ships. First of all why wouldn't we be able to bend all those labs toward the same schools? Secondly why would the devs choose to make this great research project, take such a very long time (months out of game) for us to get gear usable by the Admirals reasearching it?
You aren't even able to craft anything an Admiral can use on an end-game character... it is only scaled to a character that was created newly alongside the crafting system, and not with existing characters in mind at all.
Ah well, I will be there, everyday till xmas, grating away at it with my main, my engineer and my science officer, grinding away at three schools each to get to 15, so I can MAYBE get some useful gear. That's the rub too, it's all for a chance to get something you can perhaps use, but I am really wishing they would fix the things they broke, return the ability to do this in a reasonable time frame, even if it was just to end-game characters (hit level 50, you CAN train in the same school for multiple slots... how about that Cryptic?)
Sorry been a couple of days since I could get back to this...
...
This is in canon suppose to be the great rush R&D project, the big push. Our slots are suppose to be research capabilities of our personal crews and ships. First of all why wouldn't we be able to bend all those labs toward the same schools? Secondly why would the devs choose to make this great research project, take such a very long time (months out of game) for us to get gear usable by the Admirals reasearching it?
You aren't even able to craft anything an Admiral can use on an end-game character... it is only scaled to a character that was created newly alongside the crafting system, and not with existing characters in mind at all.
Ah well, I will be there, everyday till xmas, grating away at it with my main, my engineer and my science officer, grinding away at three schools each to get to 15, so I can MAYBE get some useful gear. That's the rub too, it's all for a chance to get something you can perhaps use, but I am really wishing they would fix the things they broke, return the ability to do this in a reasonable time frame, even if it was just to end-game characters (hit level 50, you CAN train in the same school for multiple slots... how about that Cryptic?)
very well said ... and you are completely right: why not reduce level 20 xp to e.g. a reachable 250.000 instead of the downright insane 2.070.000?
At 6k for the research project it still would take you 42 days worth of assignments just to reach the top in one school. all eight would mean ~4 months of only doing research assignments in all available slots ... that is if you do not miss a day here and there.
that still would mean a lot of work but it would at least be an attainable goal.
ah well, after the direction this game has taken over the last about a year, i am not holding my breath for any changes for the better, i doubt they will come ... i just hope star citizen and the other games i am waiting for will be out before sto gets to a poitn where i am too frustrated by the ripoff mentality to play. other games are not trek of course ... but frankly neither is sto in my mind at this point.
If the math projections people are making bear out in reality, then yeah, getting to level 15 in one school is too grindy, let alone all of them. And yes, existing level 50 characters should have been grandfathered in at least a little bit. (I don't call what they did 'grandfathering'; giving us an extra slot and/or extra levels would've been a good start.)
I agree that it would have been nice. And yeah, the amount of time to complete just one crafting school is NUTS. I can see making it take a year to max all of it, but a year for one school? uh, no. But the rest of crafting is quite nice IMO.
Then came the Atari Dark Ages. The Devs were too starved for resources to do, well, anything. It all finally culminated in Cryptic working on F2P in secret, unable to tell us what they were doing or why, while PWE was waiting in the wings. And we, in our collective rage, set fire to the forums. Trust was lost on both sides and it's soured the milk ever since.
...
Whatever it is, keep asking for it (politely, please). Maybe we won't get it. There are a lot of things we never got. There are other things we did get that we never expected.
Yeah, flaming the devs accomplishes nothing productive. And yes, the devs do listen to feedback. Granted they don't act on it most of the time, but they listen.
I think the players soured the milk a lot earlier than that when individuals went so far as to vandalize the wiki to the point where it was temporarily locked because people were posting death threats to the devs and their families over Atari putting the games on sale for $10 bucks off on the Atari website a month after the game launched.
That's when I think the devs learned it's wiser to keep things secret from the community until absolutely necessary.
It's called expectation management and public relations. The Devs and PWE do not do a very good job of it. If Geko was looking for feedback, how about standardizing a simple online form for people that use Tribble to comment on. Break it down in to a time phased operation. Example, from july 20-23, comments will be accepted covering the DoFF UI, from 24-27, we are addressing resource balancing, so while crafting run some queued events so we can ensure they are not bugged and that the drop rate percentages are within our goal.
Now, you still will get some responses that are your childish drivel, but once a dev reads a stupid rant, they can delete it. Doing this this way also helps the devs focus on a certain aspect at a time.
Don't write off exploration. Don't write off new PvP. Expect them to invest in the Foundry. Expect more features in the Gateway. I know Kestrel's got plot ideas rolling around in her head that just need the resources to make them happen.
I can't help but feel that the devs wrote off exploration, and primarily because what we had would have made crafting easier. Also, I haven't heard about 'investments' in the Foundry or Gateway in a long time.
NDAs and ignoring/silencing dissent are not ways of fostering a trusting community - and the burden of fostering such a community falls on Cryptic/PWE, not the players.
And if you have to stop playing... yes, do that. I did, for awhile. Came back in when I liked what I was seeing and haven't looked back so far. If I hadn't liked what I saw... I wouldn't have come back. That's okay too. There are events and things I have opted out of because I didn't care about them. This too is a metric they can use.
I stopped playing. I did. Then, because of a friend, I came back to find the abomination that they call a 'revamp' and the unnecessary death of one of my favorite parts of the game.
I'm seeing firsthand what player feedback means to our EP. Absolutely nothing. Saying that not knowing where crafting materials are should constitute exploration (which he did) was insulting, and enlightening.
I just don't see it. The channels and fleets I'm involved with are as active as ever. I see no evidence of the game "bleeding" aside from posts on this forum, which is, frankly, not somewhere I come to value the opinions of others.
The exploration system they removed was one of the worst things in the game. So was the old crafting system. Anyone nostalgic for either of them is an idiot, at best.
I'm not a fan of the new crafting system but at worst it's no worse than what it replaced.
The exploration system they removed was one of the worst things in the game. So was the old crafting system. Anyone nostalgic for either of them is an idiot, at best.
Anyone calling other people idiots because of personal preferences is an idiot himself.
I want to hold hope that better times are coming. I want to hold hope that great new exploration, foundry, and pvp updates are coming. But I'm looking at their track record here, and it's not good.
Expansion 2 is their big chance to redeem that record.
Comments
My character Tsin'xing
The mat requirements alone will add the necessary gates in crafting to stretch it out. There is no need to implement a system where ~85% or so of the players will say F**k that and do something else.
Even if they would have implemented it to level 10 with Aegis being possible as vr then down the road add the ur version with 15. Instead we get bludgeoned with a nerf bat that I don't think has stopped being swung since 22 July.
People keep saying that, but why would this game going down in flames convince CBS that a different Star Trek MMO is worth greenlighting?
What other Dev studio would
b) Be capable of doing a Star Trek MMO that made money and didn't suck?
c) Be willing and able to convince CBS to give them a license?
d) Want to touch that project and the amount of nerd rage they'd have to deal with on a regular basis?
I think some people believe that if they repeat it often enough, it will magically happen. Losing STO for any reason other than the natural cycle of the game winding down could very well mean that we get no Star Trek game at all for a very long time, if ever.
I don't want to see that take place. I like STO, in general. There are still parts of the game I've never/rarely played and if I could get my boys off Minecraft they'd be playing STO with me. I've tried Champs and NW, but I keep coming back to STO. There are no other MMO's out there I care about.
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Star Trek has a very loyal fan base with a lot of expendable income. I'm confident that if STO went under it would get picked up within a reasonable amount of time by another dev/publisher. There's no less than two other Star Trek video games currently under development and scheduled for release. Their still making new Star Trek movies. So, the money is there. If CBS can see that it would be profitable, that's all that matters. Anything else is pointless speculation.
Personally, I'd love for one of the major players out there to make a brand new Star Trek MMO and would be happy to wait for it.
Well, EA/BW took on the Star Wars IP and basically caused SWG to be sunsetted even though it was promised that they could coexist (and they could have). IMHO TOR does suck, but a lot of that is because I'm not a fan of KOTOR time frame, but it does make a boatload of money because it adopted a FTP model (it had to).
On another note why WOULD someone else want to take on the Star Trek IP?
1. The IP will generate money period, just like SW.
2. They can put together a model that could get enough backing to get a green light.
3. If CBS thinks they can make money on it they will issue a license. It doesn't matter what the IP is.
4. Nerd Rage does amplify based upon the IP. This crafting update is going to reach the levels SOE saw with the NGE. This crafting grind is worst than grinding a tailor pre-cu in SWG. But what 99% of the companies don't do is abate the nerd rage by responding with why they did what they did that caused the nerd rage and plus they don't take the time to sift through the drivel and the trolling to get the good, thoughtful, feedback that can make the community feel involved and listened too.
5. The biggest issue I see with today's games involving a third party IP like SW or ST is that the suits get in the way because of the dollar signs in their eyes and not realizing that most of the people that play these types of games are fans of the IP not just another gamer. This is WHY they need to produce a better product than the other guy. Not just another WoW clone (like TOR) that everyone quit after the first month or so because no one cared about the voice acting they just wanted a lot of diverse content to feel immersed in the IP they love.
I can not understand why the people at PWE/Cryptic would do what they have to this game and expect people to keep playing and paying for what is on a huge part a total failure of PWE/Cryptic to make this game better in any which way.
Yes so many people are mad at the Dev's and they have a right to be. Tribble has become useless. We go on there look and test things and nada. We tell them no this is bad. The next day its out and people leave the game. Vet's of the game get sickened and have to go play something else for a while. They treat Star Trek players like they wee stupid... O we better take this map out its to hard to exit. I am pretty sure a Star Trek fan has something to do with the design of the Tec they abused in pushing out patch 9.5 all faith if there was any left in the Dev's are gone. Honestly I doubt any of them are fans of star trek just underlings that do what they are told. I know of no fan that would have put this much restriction on Star Trek.
A lot of people have good ideas about this game and I have heard of no one being contacted by the Dev's to expand on their idea. I have how ever heard of other MMO's such as EVE online doing that and they have run a lot longer then Star Trek from what I was told make 100 x more money. What can you say other then they want this game to go under. The fans want to keep it alive but like one person said "don't grind us to death" which after you finish the story line the game is a slow solid grind to the death.
Star Trek should be an open sand box completely if you want to make money selling ships and have a great R&D system then let us craft ships and any thing else in the Star Trek universe. Let us explore and have some over sight in the game. Watch what we like and don't like don't put in STF's that no one ques up for and I am pretty sure you could take out all but 15 or so STFs and no one would notice.
Every one here try's to tell the Dev's something in their own way its just a sham the people that are trying to save this game are never heard and the people who make the game don't care and do what they will to there own down fall. So yes to those who always type DOOOOoommmmm I am starting to see how you think that. To us Vets of the game I pray we are not the only ones left sitting in our star bases talking about our once proud fleets and about the old days when they finely turn off the servers on us.
The more I see the gated content, the money grabs, and the alienation of the playerbase, it's hard not to shake the feeling that they are just bleeding this game dry, doing an EA on it like EA did to Command and Conquer, Dead Space, etc.
Like many that have posted here, my fleet never lacked for being able to field a team. Rare was the time when no one at all was on. Now, there are only 2-3 other actives, the rest having given up and left. I often find myself soloing in a fleet. Recruiting is next to impossible, with the vast majority of fleets in the same position, and not a lot of players to go around.
The fact the people in charge will never read these just makes the situation sadder. It shows they don't care. In fact I am sure they don't. They sit around patting themselves on the back for adding a new brake to progress or removing content "to improve the game".
As long as the money flows, the most important part of the game, we the customer, will continue to be ignored.
Cryptic: If you think the bugs are bad, wait until you see our fixes!
Personally I don't think it's a lack of players, more a lack of courtesy (not saying you are one of the culprits) and poor recruitment methods.
I see on a daily basis a huge amount of un-fleeted players so there are plenty of people around, but what I experience every time I log onto a low level character is constant fleet invite spam, i'm used to it now, but I'm pretty sure it annoys the hell out of new players, it did when I was new.
An annoyed new player is not going to accept a random fleet invite form someone who hasn't even had the common courtesy to have a chat with them first and they will generally ignore it until it stops.
New players at low levels just want to run around the early game and learn how the basics work, they don' want all these windows to pop up and disturb them.
I'd say ideally it's best to wait until they're in their mid twenties and comfortable with the basics and solo side of things before trying to recruit them, but unfortunately due to all the ninja invites they get by that time they're just fed up with the whole fleet invite side of things that their attitude is if they want to join a fleet they will find one and join it and no amount of invitation is going to work on them.
Recruiters are shooting themselves in the foot and making it harder by sending out ninja invites.
Why can't we get some things for FREE?
[SIGPIC]Click here to visit my STO YouTube channel[/SIGPIC]
P.S: What is the com station on defera and how can I go there? Or do I have to unlock more task force omega tiers?
Grand Master Thotok, son of Koloth, I.K.S. Sompek==Dahar Master Shanara, I.K.S. Balth'Quv
Admiral R'Tath V'Tirex, R.R.W. Dhael Glohha'enh==Commander Ta'eth Korval, R.R.W Hachae ch'Rhian==Admiral Vranuk, R.R.W Delevhas
Please, more free stuff
Grand Master Thotok, son of Koloth, I.K.S. Sompek==Dahar Master Shanara, I.K.S. Balth'Quv
Admiral R'Tath V'Tirex, R.R.W. Dhael Glohha'enh==Commander Ta'eth Korval, R.R.W Hachae ch'Rhian==Admiral Vranuk, R.R.W Delevhas
You can buy a 5000 bundle pack from the cstore just rading dil for zen with 6 alts just in 1 month. Dont you think that is easy enough?? that thing you asking is never going to happen. Because it is not needed and will bury the f2p standards to the ground and because there is no way in a f2p game that sort of mechanics will be implemented. Enough that you can get zen trading dilithium. You cant even do that in several f2p mmorpgs.
The comm station on Defera is useless. You cant use it. It is supossed to be an expansion that was planed years ago to be included, but in the end, was abandoned (as a lot of more things in STO).
I rather wish there were more things I could actually buy outright with real money instead of grind for, to tell the truth. At this point in my life, I actually have a bit of disposable income and less time.
I'll probably enrage a lot of people who will claim I'm into P2W, but I'd rather just buy stuff without lockboxes or a daily login to play some mini-game for tokens. I could care less about accumulating Dilithium. Just let me buy the dang thing with Zen already so I can actually play the dang game when I have the time instead of grinding something I don't want to do. I'm not a power-gamer... I just like the toys
But Crafting/R&D?
No. I get that. Like Fleets, it's supposed to take time by design. And I'm basically cool with that.
If the math projections people are making bear out in reality, then yeah, getting to level 15 in one school is too grindy, let alone all of them. And yes, existing level 50 characters should have been grandfathered in at least a little bit. (I don't call what they did 'grandfathering'; giving us an extra slot and/or extra levels would've been a good start.)
But other than that, I've got too much time and money invested in this game to walk away now. Even if I never give Cryptic one more zen, I'm here until the bitter end as long as there's a reason for me to log in. Still lots of Foundry missions I've never played. And if they make something for the C-Store that I actually want to buy, I will.
In the meantime, I'll use R&D when I feel like it. I won't get to level 20 in every school, and I won't be the first kid on the block able to sell the goodies for a 5000% markup. Okay.
There's another thread floating around here about how people don't feel any motivation to log in and play. I totally get that.
But there was a time when I got really excited about the possibilities with STO. So many directions they could've taken it, and back then we actually had some idea about where the Devs wanted to go with it.
Ah, Stahl used to drive us nuts hinting about what was coming up, new features they were considering adding. We had dialogue with the devs. What? You want to do one new FE a week? Are you crazy? (Turns out, the answer was yes.)
Then came the Atari Dark Ages. The Devs were too starved for resources to do, well, anything. It all finally culminated in Cryptic working on F2P in secret, unable to tell us what they were doing or why, while PWE was waiting in the wings. And we, in our collective rage, set fire to the forums. Trust was lost on both sides and it's soured the milk ever since.
But I remember what it was like before.
Don't write off exploration. Don't write off new PvP. Expect them to invest in the Foundry. Expect more features in the Gateway. I know Kestrel's got plot ideas rolling around in her head that just need the resources to make them happen.
Whatever it is, keep asking for it (politely, please). Maybe we won't get it. There are a lot of things we never got. There are other things we did get that we never expected.
I will continue to submit to the powers-that-be that they'd better develop a stomach for letting release dates slip when something's not quite ready, and that they'd get a better result if they'd seek our input on potential new features way, way in advance while there's still time to act on it. That would go a long way. They don't have to reveal everything. We like surprises, when they're nice and shiny.
On our part (the players)... Stuff breaks. Welcome to the wonderful world of computer programming. It breaks, and hopefully it gets fixed. If you can find a workaround in the meantime, do that. At least it's still in active development and you're not depending on it to keep your boss happy. And when it's working, remember that it's free to play, but it ain't free for Cryptic to keep the lights on. They have to figure out how to make money with this thing and some of their ideas are not going to work very well.
And if you have to stop playing... yes, do that. I did, for awhile. Came back in when I liked what I was seeing and haven't looked back so far. If I hadn't liked what I saw... I wouldn't have come back. That's okay too. There are events and things I have opted out of because I didn't care about them. This too is a metric they can use.
Link: How to PM - Twitter @STOMod_Bluegeek
STO "Was" one of my favorite games, but thanks to Cryptic/PWE its just another waste of money now. If you were trying to kill your own game, then I think you're on the right path now. Whats next? Restart all of everyones "Captains" (VA's, RA's. etc.) to 0 next?
"No matter where you go, there you are."
"I found a bug in Beta, Cryptic squished it. STO Founder and Proud LTS member."
I don't want things for free. I want things that are worth buying.
LOL, no offense but even subscribers dont get free ships until ONE THOUSAND days. and we get 500 zen per month....no offense, im not entitled, only been lifer for a month.....but your idea would put cryptic completely out of business. assume 2.5k players...they would be giving out ~$218,000 based on your idea, and there are far more than 2.5k players.
No offense....but the old system took about 1 hour to max on defera...not cryptic's fault you didnt know that
Not that we have to relevel, not that we have to relevel 8 schools now either. But ...
... THAT is making me angry.
Dear perfectworld, I have already spent several hundret dollars on this game (lifetime sub and bought my fair share of zen after f2p to get ships, slots, etc.), so if the deal is right I am willing to pay.
Right now however, especially with the riddiculous requirements and limitations and the browser-game worthy pay2finish buttons with obscene dilithium costs this game is feeling like a bad browser game not an mmo.
I am here to play STO not STville, thank you.
Too bad cryptic could not make it on its own, now I have to endure perfectworld to play STO. This is nothing more than a low ripoff - even worse than the lockboxes - and precisely the reason why I never have touched any perfectworld games and exept for STO never ever will play anything connected to this company.
Now stop behaving like a tick I am not a sheep!
Correction, the token T5 ship is upon reaching 600 days.
Bluegeek: thanks for piping in. That was a very well thought out reply and I too remember back before the dark Atari days when we had an actual dialog with the Devs. That was when I had real hopes for this game, and the feeling of the community was very positive and honestly it was easy to team, there wasn't a lot of griefing and people were generally just pleased to be playing some Trek...
After those dark times, when the Devs went quiet and wouldn't talk to us no matter what, the tenor of the devolpment changed. While we could get excited over new content or story, it was always carrying with it a desperate "gimmie" plea involving either incredibly high Dilithium costs, (our time, or our money).
Also, I meant Fleet Advanced AP weapons (my bad)
Anyway, Ran some numbers for you all... Just so you can see the cost they are asking for in bald numbers.
A Generous (as in a bit high) exchange rate on the Dilithium Market would be 160... (it is currently sitting at 155-157) which is where I ran these numbers.
2000 Zen is = to $20.00
= 320000 Dilithium
The cost in dilithium to skip the time gate immediately for 1 school is a staggering 20,700,000:eek: (That is immediate use of the skip ability(20,000 D) for each train netting 2000xp each time, requiring 2,070,000xp to reach 20)
the overall cost, in real world money, to skip the time gate...
$1293.75
PER SCHOOL
This is what I have a problem with. That number is simply OUTRAGEOUSLY staggering.
I could understand $100, or $250
but, nearly $1300, Per school, that's a used car, or a house payment, per school.
Cryptic must really think they're players are the well to do. I for one am not made of that kind of money. I am barely scrapping by as it is and to see this kind of time gate put up, and then INCREASED to make it so that I can't even unlock this stuff by concetrating research on a school. This means that you are making an incredible distinction between the Pay Fors and the Wait Fors...
People who pay for the trainings, will earn those weapons and that advantage far earlier, as soon as now actually, and that will make an impact in the game. It will change the rankings in PVE encounters like Crystalline entity, it will forever wipe the face of PVP, as this is literally Pay 2 Win that everyone has so long be moaned. And all the way, we see the lead dev, laugh at us and tell us that he doesn't see constructive criticisms that took up over 30 pages on the Tribble forums. Good criticisms too, that had examples, and suggestions on what to do to fix the issues.
Instead it was implemented according to someone's vision of what would be, and well when that happens against the will of a game community it is oft times disasterous.
This is in canon suppose to be the great rush R&D project, the big push. Our slots are suppose to be research capabilities of our personal crews and ships. First of all why wouldn't we be able to bend all those labs toward the same schools? Secondly why would the devs choose to make this great research project, take such a very long time (months out of game) for us to get gear usable by the Admirals reasearching it?
You aren't even able to craft anything an Admiral can use on an end-game character... it is only scaled to a character that was created newly alongside the crafting system, and not with existing characters in mind at all.
Ah well, I will be there, everyday till xmas, grating away at it with my main, my engineer and my science officer, grinding away at three schools each to get to 15, so I can MAYBE get some useful gear. That's the rub too, it's all for a chance to get something you can perhaps use, but I am really wishing they would fix the things they broke, return the ability to do this in a reasonable time frame, even if it was just to end-game characters (hit level 50, you CAN train in the same school for multiple slots... how about that Cryptic?)
very well said ... and you are completely right: why not reduce level 20 xp to e.g. a reachable 250.000 instead of the downright insane 2.070.000?
At 6k for the research project it still would take you 42 days worth of assignments just to reach the top in one school. all eight would mean ~4 months of only doing research assignments in all available slots ... that is if you do not miss a day here and there.
that still would mean a lot of work but it would at least be an attainable goal.
ah well, after the direction this game has taken over the last about a year, i am not holding my breath for any changes for the better, i doubt they will come ... i just hope star citizen and the other games i am waiting for will be out before sto gets to a poitn where i am too frustrated by the ripoff mentality to play. other games are not trek of course ... but frankly neither is sto in my mind at this point.
More things wrong with this game that just posted in OP, but I agree.
Your Ramming Speed III deals 242658 (243540) Kinetic Damage (Critical) to you.
My character Tsin'xing
It's called expectation management and public relations. The Devs and PWE do not do a very good job of it. If Geko was looking for feedback, how about standardizing a simple online form for people that use Tribble to comment on. Break it down in to a time phased operation. Example, from july 20-23, comments will be accepted covering the DoFF UI, from 24-27, we are addressing resource balancing, so while crafting run some queued events so we can ensure they are not bugged and that the drop rate percentages are within our goal.
Now, you still will get some responses that are your childish drivel, but once a dev reads a stupid rant, they can delete it. Doing this this way also helps the devs focus on a certain aspect at a time.
I can't help but feel that the devs wrote off exploration, and primarily because what we had would have made crafting easier. Also, I haven't heard about 'investments' in the Foundry or Gateway in a long time.
NDAs and ignoring/silencing dissent are not ways of fostering a trusting community - and the burden of fostering such a community falls on Cryptic/PWE, not the players.
I stopped playing. I did. Then, because of a friend, I came back to find the abomination that they call a 'revamp' and the unnecessary death of one of my favorite parts of the game.
I'm seeing firsthand what player feedback means to our EP. Absolutely nothing. Saying that not knowing where crafting materials are should constitute exploration (which he did) was insulting, and enlightening.
The exploration system they removed was one of the worst things in the game. So was the old crafting system. Anyone nostalgic for either of them is an idiot, at best.
I'm not a fan of the new crafting system but at worst it's no worse than what it replaced.
Anyone calling other people idiots because of personal preferences is an idiot himself.
Expansion 2 is their big chance to redeem that record.