Have you all not heard about the STEALTH NERFING of EC over on tribble. They cut the value of loot drops in half, THAT is coming to Holo along with this awful crafting system. It may not be a Doooooooooooooooom experience, but it sure is going to TRIBBLE off alot of people.
You didn't answer my question. Nerfing currency only makes it more difficult to make EC to pay for the supplies stated before.
My Old Blog about things that could and should have been added when I wrote it. Not sure what I want to do with it now. I'll just keep it available now that most of it is outdated.
You didn't answer my question. Nerfing currency only makes it more difficult to make EC to pay for the supplies stated before.
Simply put, its a choice they give players at a price. In other words spend more dilithium, it is designed to be another dilithium sink. That is if you are referring to the quick finish option?
To add to this horror, it is also time gated - we do not know how long certain types of doff crafting missions may take. Some may take a few minutes while others hours. So here is the thing, if some may takes hours, is it a bigger dilithium cost for fast completion?
And here I was going to say it reminded me of the crafting system in Neverwinter (which, yeah, takes a bunch of aspects from Facebook/f2p mobile games....)
edit: also, I haven't gone and crafted the current way in a while. But I recall needing to spend a good bit of dil for mk9/10 stuff. Anyone remember how much that was?
True, but you don't need dilithium equivalent in Neverwinter to craft there. That's the biggest problem.
Thanks for the video, OP. I may have already tried out the proposed changes on Tribble but this is awesome for those that haven't.
Azurianstar asked in what we would have done differently to make crafting better. As I agreed with so many of his ideas and expanded on them I include his post and my reply here...
Add to all this the removal of exploration clusters (so no more daily dil from exploring 3 anomalies in Delta Volantis Cluster, and fewer ways to get data samples/new newness ingredients) and this half-baked "expansion" becomes more of a "subtraction".
Make sure to explore all the clusters as many times as you can between now and this fiasco going live to Holodeck otherwise we'll all be left with unfinishable accolades (I'm at 30/35 for Delta Volantis but I think it goes to 75 for the last accolade in each cluster).
"...we are far more united and have far more in common with each other than the things that divide us.”
Jo Cox 22.6.1974 - 16.6.2016
Simply put, its a choice they give players at a price. In other words spend more dilithium, it is designed to be another dilithium sink. That is if you are referring to the quick finish option?
To add to this horror, it is also time gated - we do not know how long certain types of doff crafting missions may take. Some may take a few minutes while others hours. So here is the thing, if some may takes hours, is it a bigger dilithium cost for fast completion?
You can count on massive times gates, in NW they started around 15 minutes, then went to several hours, then twelve hours, then a day, then days! So a MK XII item will take DAYS to make once you acquired all the stuffs to even start the process.
Regarding the EC nerf in the form of the loot drop value cut, it will pretty much stop me from buying anything on the exchange...ever. And its meant to hit players like me where it hurts. I'm the guy that used to make 4 million EC in a half hour from the foundry farm missions, then they nerfed those and that cut me back to about 1.5-2 million in a half hour.
I looked for the shortest grind with the highest payout and found it in the foundry farm missions. I'm adverse to long hours of grinding and it was a painless way for me to be able to afford most things I wanted on the exchange within 7-14 days. For someone that only plays a couple hours a night sometimes skipping a night, I'll relegated to running green and blue gear, which I'm fine with for PvE. But for the gear I need for PvP it's really going to put a massive damper on things considering the insane prices things like universal consoles and Traits are going for on the exchange.
The stupid thing about the EC nerf is that it will only hurt the players. All of them. It will not increase your profits because the players it will affect are not the players that spend money regularly but rather those that grind to win. So you're trying to force the pay to win aspect and failing.
For example, The Bio-Tech Patch Trait from the Undine lock box will be 100% out of reach for me at 24 million EC on the exchange. I need it, but will not get because I can't afford to drop $20.00 in keys for every little thing I need.
Sorry Cryptic, your tightening your belt and some of us are really feeling the pinch. The Crafting system is not really crafting and is more like doffing that you pay dil for if anything. I don't think the crafting system people want and will actually have fun with is compatible with the free to play model though....which more and more I can't stand. With the Steam summer sale I've picked up a couple cool games and am enjoying a break from the mindless grind.
Call me sentimental, but I miss the days when Bran Flakes and Dstahl were around. I hate that Dstahl ignored PvP but I can't help but think these things wouldn't be happening if he was still EP.
You can count on massive times gates, in NW they started around 15 minutes, then went to several hours, then twelve hours, then a day, then days! So a MK XII item will take DAYS to make once you acquired all the stuffs to even start the process.
A Mk XII item takes 5 hours to make...
Jeff "Adjudicator Hawk" Hamilton
Systems Designer - Cryptic Studios
Twitter: @JeffAHamilton
QR to the thread - great video as always, the system is very much in flux, and hopefully its final form will be more agreeable to you.
How about releasing a mock up/concept art of the final product soon? I am sure someone did one when you were pitching all of this... Captain Geko really made me feel better on Priority One however it would have been great to see something the day it hit Tribble
Releasing this to Tribble surely was a double edged sword. The knee jerk reaction was horrendous by the community, I being one of them with such a reaction and I apologize. I hope it doesn't deter such an early release in the future. Sometimes a quick, "hey this is what it's supposed to look like when we are done" might help if you can help it. Up until then all we received was blogs with not a lot of information, then BAM, an alpha version that had some UI parts that are just there so that it is functional in some way and not even close to how it's supposed to be. Even a disclaimer in the patch nodes that uses a little more "Enhanced" language
join Date: Sep 2009 - I want my changeling lava lamp!
QR to the thread - great video as always, the system is very much in flux, and hopefully its final form will be more agreeable to you.
Thank you very much for the praise and for watching the videos, its very much appreciated, especially when its coming from a dev.
Regarding the system, implement some of the changes that the playerbase is asking and i am sure that you will have a loads of players get into crafting in S 9.5.
How are they going to handle those of us who have multiple characters already at the max for crafting? I REALLY won't be happy and won't even bother with crafting if we have to start over from the beginning. I've already put a lot of time and resources to get the crafting to max and if we have to wind up starting from zero again I'll pass...
Isn't the game grindy enough already???
My main character is T'Les which was also my former forum name and I want it back! Hylarr is one of my alts.
Why? Players already spent the time gather resources and Dil to craft items. What's with these time gates?
think this is where dilithium will come in to play and ask for me if the new crafting that is on trib comes to holodeck i will not be partaking in it i dont have to grind as much dill and sure and hek dont have time gate and dont have to get doff to do crafting in the old system
these are reason i dont like the new system doff now involved dilithium now playing a bigger role and now time gates on crafting
I don't mind crafting prices. It can be even higher I will grind, collect and spend but I do mind the gambling with it.
Please login to Tribble and try it out.
After 21 crafting assignments and burning 1575 dil to bypass 2h building time to build MK II dual cannon I got:
0, yes zero very rare AP MK II dual canons
p.s. I will execute my rare Jamhadar who is serving under me for 1,5 years for incompetence its just a MK II dual canon, he is Energy Weapons Officer not a Doctor.
How are they going to handle those of us who have multiple characters already at the max for crafting? I REALLY won't be happy and won't even bother with crafting if we have to start over from the beginning. I've already put a lot of time and resources to get the crafting to max and if we have to wind up starting from zero again I'll pass...
Isn't the game grindy enough already???
Unfortunately you will have to star gamble from 0. In the podcast it is sad that the old crafting system is so easy that yeah we will have to start the gambling system from 0.
p.s. I would start from 0 a new crafting system not this gambling one.
p.p.s. But it is also mentioned in the podcast if you want the new ultra rare or gold item you will have to be a good boy and go to school just 7 of them.
After 21 crafting assignments and burning 1575 dil to bypass 2h building time to build MK II dual cannon I got:
0, yes zero very rare AP MK II dual canons
p.s. I will execute my rare Jamhadar who is serving under me for 1,5 years for incompetence its just a MK II dual canon, he is Energy Weapons Officer not a Doctor.
hopefully, the DEVS will tweak things in order to make it right.
it would be ridiculous and unsustainable that silly amount of dilithium, to roll the dice on a random stats item.
it would be even worst on a so long awaited revamp of the crafting system, to come up with something that would TRIBBLE off players, give them no worth content and make them go away instead.
QR to the thread - great video as always, the system is very much in flux, and hopefully its final form will be more agreeable to you.
Dear Capt. Adjudicatorhawk,
please, please, please remove the crit chance from crafting. Put as much dil as needed/wanted (or ordered) but no crit.
Thank you.
After 21 crafting assignments and burning 1575 dil to bypass 2h building time to build MK II dual cannon I got:
0, yes zero very rare AP MK II dual canons
p.s. I will execute my rare Jamhadar who is serving under me for 1,5 years for incompetence its just a MK II dual canon, he is Energy Weapons Officer not a Doctor.
Personally, I don't see this happening. Keeping the crit chance opens the door for Z-Store crafting mods that increase the crit chance. This is one way they'll monetize crafting and squeeze more from your wallet.
Well I bought LTS, and every time my fleet hits an upgrade I buy at least 2000 ZEN to close the upgrade, mostly its 5k and somtimes 7k but . With fixed prices like I don't know 20k MK XII, 10k or 20k for rarity and 5k for one mod believe me they would get much more money from me.
This way I will probably play it like doff missions open the UI blind click everything for free and maybe in 3 years I will hit lvl 20 in one school.
Current status on my DOFFs I have 2 lvl 4 and yesterday I hit lvl 2 (YES!) on colonial after 1,5 years of playing on my main char. My two other chars .
But I have to admit that after S9.5 my progress my be better as they pre-slot the doffs. I will blid click like mad....
After 21 crafting assignments and burning 1575 dil to bypass 2h building time to build MK II dual cannon I got:
0, yes zero very rare AP MK II dual canons
p.s. I will execute my rare Jamhadar who is serving under me for 1,5 years for incompetence its just a MK II dual canon, he is Energy Weapons Officer not a Doctor.
I agree we should not have a roll of the dice on the crafting, it makes no sense, especially if you are master crafter. Secondly, for those of use that have 1500 skill, we shouldn't be penalized for by having to re-grind from zero or zero.5.
Lastly, some of you need to calm down on the dilthium prices, those are the shock prices, and it was stated a number of times by the Geko, that they are the shock prices and they will be adjusted when it is Holodeck.
Overall, the doff UI didn't need this type of revamp, it needed tweaks and changes, but no complete redoes. Just like getting a revamped ESD out of the blue, we should have gotten something else, like a revamped Terradome or actually releasing Children of Khan, the mythical STF at this point, or developing a Call to Arms system like in Neverwinter, the one of the few systems that are actually nice in that game that doesn't come with a money wall or a time wall.
If they want to improve the Rep system, add unique items, like costume changes, specialized shuttles, and/or pets.
I would agree it doesn't make sense, however I still do not believe they will get rid of the crit chance. Other MMOs have a similar mechanic in their crafting setup.
other MMOs get rid of that critting stuff, exactly because that makes playerbase mad.
crafters cannot sell non-crit stuff because everyone wants the "top notch". which only forced buyer to pay for the crit item also all the non-crit junk items. which made orbital price for crit items. which only few players can afford.
instead of steady supply for everyone it became exclusive shopping for the rich.
example everquest. before there were ordinary items and "pristine" crit items, now everything you craft is "pristine" by default. but the damage to playerbase was already done, many players went away.
sometimes it would be useful for developers to look over edge of a plate to avoid mistakes made by other companies.
I didn't like the current crafting system, but from what I see this one is no better. So it looks like I won't be crafting at all.
One day Cryptic will be free from their Perfect World overlord. Until that day comes, they will continue to pamper the whales of this game, and ignore everyone that isn't a whale.
Comments
You didn't answer my question. Nerfing currency only makes it more difficult to make EC to pay for the supplies stated before.
Simply put, its a choice they give players at a price. In other words spend more dilithium, it is designed to be another dilithium sink. That is if you are referring to the quick finish option?
To add to this horror, it is also time gated - we do not know how long certain types of doff crafting missions may take. Some may take a few minutes while others hours. So here is the thing, if some may takes hours, is it a bigger dilithium cost for fast completion?
True, but you don't need dilithium equivalent in Neverwinter to craft there. That's the biggest problem.
https://youtube.com/user/MyBalkanGaming
Azurianstar asked in what we would have done differently to make crafting better. As I agreed with so many of his ideas and expanded on them I include his post and my reply here...
http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showpost.php?p=17618381&postcount=10
In addition to the new crafting horrors, the new DOFF UI is awful. My thoughts on the horrible DOFF UI are here.
sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showpost.php?p=17618851&postcount=103
Add to all this the removal of exploration clusters (so no more daily dil from exploring 3 anomalies in Delta Volantis Cluster, and fewer ways to get data samples/new newness ingredients) and this half-baked "expansion" becomes more of a "subtraction".
Make sure to explore all the clusters as many times as you can between now and this fiasco going live to Holodeck otherwise we'll all be left with unfinishable accolades (I'm at 30/35 for Delta Volantis but I think it goes to 75 for the last accolade in each cluster).
Jo Cox 22.6.1974 - 16.6.2016
Regarding the EC nerf in the form of the loot drop value cut, it will pretty much stop me from buying anything on the exchange...ever. And its meant to hit players like me where it hurts. I'm the guy that used to make 4 million EC in a half hour from the foundry farm missions, then they nerfed those and that cut me back to about 1.5-2 million in a half hour.
I looked for the shortest grind with the highest payout and found it in the foundry farm missions. I'm adverse to long hours of grinding and it was a painless way for me to be able to afford most things I wanted on the exchange within 7-14 days. For someone that only plays a couple hours a night sometimes skipping a night, I'll relegated to running green and blue gear, which I'm fine with for PvE. But for the gear I need for PvP it's really going to put a massive damper on things considering the insane prices things like universal consoles and Traits are going for on the exchange.
The stupid thing about the EC nerf is that it will only hurt the players. All of them. It will not increase your profits because the players it will affect are not the players that spend money regularly but rather those that grind to win. So you're trying to force the pay to win aspect and failing.
For example, The Bio-Tech Patch Trait from the Undine lock box will be 100% out of reach for me at 24 million EC on the exchange. I need it, but will not get because I can't afford to drop $20.00 in keys for every little thing I need.
Sorry Cryptic, your tightening your belt and some of us are really feeling the pinch. The Crafting system is not really crafting and is more like doffing that you pay dil for if anything. I don't think the crafting system people want and will actually have fun with is compatible with the free to play model though....which more and more I can't stand. With the Steam summer sale I've picked up a couple cool games and am enjoying a break from the mindless grind.
Call me sentimental, but I miss the days when Bran Flakes and Dstahl were around. I hate that Dstahl ignored PvP but I can't help but think these things wouldn't be happening if he was still EP.
Thank you! It's much appreciated.
https://youtube.com/user/MyBalkanGaming
A Mk XII item takes 5 hours to make...
Systems Designer - Cryptic Studios
Twitter: @JeffAHamilton
Systems Designer - Cryptic Studios
Twitter: @JeffAHamilton
Good to know thanks. That seems very reasonable.
How about releasing a mock up/concept art of the final product soon? I am sure someone did one when you were pitching all of this... Captain Geko really made me feel better on Priority One however it would have been great to see something the day it hit Tribble
Releasing this to Tribble surely was a double edged sword. The knee jerk reaction was horrendous by the community, I being one of them with such a reaction and I apologize. I hope it doesn't deter such an early release in the future. Sometimes a quick, "hey this is what it's supposed to look like when we are done" might help if you can help it. Up until then all we received was blogs with not a lot of information, then BAM, an alpha version that had some UI parts that are just there so that it is functional in some way and not even close to how it's supposed to be. Even a disclaimer in the patch nodes that uses a little more "Enhanced" language
Thank you very much for the praise and for watching the videos, its very much appreciated, especially when its coming from a dev.
Regarding the system, implement some of the changes that the playerbase is asking and i am sure that you will have a loads of players get into crafting in S 9.5.
https://youtube.com/user/MyBalkanGaming
So if i need 8 beams... lol
Isn't the game grindy enough already???
Yep that's seems reasonable. Just adjust the dilithium prices and we are good to go.
https://youtube.com/user/MyBalkanGaming
think this is where dilithium will come in to play and ask for me if the new crafting that is on trib comes to holodeck i will not be partaking in it i dont have to grind as much dill and sure and hek dont have time gate and dont have to get doff to do crafting in the old system
these are reason i dont like the new system doff now involved dilithium now playing a bigger role and now time gates on crafting
system Lord Baal is dead
Please login to Tribble and try it out.
0, yes zero very rare AP MK II dual canons
p.s. I will execute my rare Jamhadar who is serving under me for 1,5 years for incompetence its just a MK II dual canon, he is Energy Weapons Officer not a Doctor.
Unfortunately you will have to star gamble from 0. In the podcast it is sad that the old crafting system is so easy that yeah we will have to start the gambling system from 0.
p.s. I would start from 0 a new crafting system not this gambling one.
p.p.s. But it is also mentioned in the podcast if you want the new ultra rare or gold item you will have to be a good boy and go to school just 7 of them.
0, yes zero very rare AP MK II dual canons
p.s. I will execute my rare Jamhadar who is serving under me for 1,5 years for incompetence its just a MK II dual canon, he is Energy Weapons Officer not a Doctor.
hopefully, the DEVS will tweak things in order to make it right.
it would be ridiculous and unsustainable that silly amount of dilithium, to roll the dice on a random stats item.
it would be even worst on a so long awaited revamp of the crafting system, to come up with something that would TRIBBLE off players, give them no worth content and make them go away instead.
:cool:
Dear Capt. Adjudicatorhawk,
please, please, please remove the crit chance from crafting. Put as much dil as needed/wanted (or ordered) but no crit.
Thank you.
0, yes zero very rare AP MK II dual canons
p.s. I will execute my rare Jamhadar who is serving under me for 1,5 years for incompetence its just a MK II dual canon, he is Energy Weapons Officer not a Doctor.
Well I bought LTS, and every time my fleet hits an upgrade I buy at least 2000 ZEN to close the upgrade, mostly its 5k and somtimes 7k but
This way I will probably play it like doff missions open the UI blind click everything for free and maybe in 3 years I will hit lvl 20 in one school.
Current status on my DOFFs I have 2 lvl 4 and yesterday I hit lvl 2 (YES!) on colonial after 1,5 years of playing on my main char. My two other chars
But I have to admit that after S9.5 my progress my be better as they pre-slot the doffs. I will blid click like mad....
0, yes zero very rare AP MK II dual canons
p.s. I will execute my rare Jamhadar who is serving under me for 1,5 years for incompetence its just a MK II dual canon, he is Energy Weapons Officer not a Doctor.
Lastly, some of you need to calm down on the dilthium prices, those are the shock prices, and it was stated a number of times by the Geko, that they are the shock prices and they will be adjusted when it is Holodeck.
Overall, the doff UI didn't need this type of revamp, it needed tweaks and changes, but no complete redoes. Just like getting a revamped ESD out of the blue, we should have gotten something else, like a revamped Terradome or actually releasing Children of Khan, the mythical STF at this point, or developing a Call to Arms system like in Neverwinter, the one of the few systems that are actually nice in that game that doesn't come with a money wall or a time wall.
If they want to improve the Rep system, add unique items, like costume changes, specialized shuttles, and/or pets.
crafters cannot sell non-crit stuff because everyone wants the "top notch". which only forced buyer to pay for the crit item also all the non-crit junk items. which made orbital price for crit items. which only few players can afford.
instead of steady supply for everyone it became exclusive shopping for the rich.
example everquest. before there were ordinary items and "pristine" crit items, now everything you craft is "pristine" by default. but the damage to playerbase was already done, many players went away.
sometimes it would be useful for developers to look over edge of a plate to avoid mistakes made by other companies.
I didn't like the current crafting system, but from what I see this one is no better. So it looks like I won't be crafting at all.
Thank you for watching.
But stay on top of the system, maybe they make changes you like, who knows.
https://youtube.com/user/MyBalkanGaming