I haven't read anything about the new system, but based on this description it is pretty much what they have in Neverwinter.
If this truly is what is going to come to STO, it's time to pack up and leave. In Neverwinter the crafting/reputation system is a very blatant money grab, a horrible grind and most of the "new" content consists of "new" added professions. There is no creative input etc, it is just the same generic stuff over and over and over again. I have played Neverwinter for a couple of months and I still haven't maxed out my first profession.
The one thing I loved about STO was that there was no feeling of urgency. Then the events and reputation grinds were added and now this. I am not looking for a game that requires me to log in every day.
The Silver Lining in the Neverwinter Crafting System is the Leadership track with it giving at least 9,600 Astral Diamonds per day by just doing the level 20 task. Although, Leadership is the longest track to complete. The easiest has to be Alchemy. Just purchase the potions off of the Auction House and do the Experiment tasks. The Aquas might need to be acquired through the Alchemy track.
AGAIN... SOME of us were in the old, old four school crafting system, the first reboot of crafting, and just building Hypos did not cut it in that system. Heck, I remember when particle traces didn't exist, when the scanning minigame was created, and when they introduced schematics.
It took time and a bit of effort to advance. Only later did all of the crafting skill get crunched down into one R&D skill.
We got converted into that system. I'd appreciate it if you'd stop generalizing the amount of effort people put into the legacy crafting systems.
Not saying any of us should get a free ride. But if we bothered to craft and put all of those resources into it, a significant boost is not unreasonable.
I also did the old crafting system and I can't honestly say I remember it being so unrealistically difficult that I feel I deserve a signifigant leg-up from something that happened 4 years ago. Truth be told I barely remember it.
I actually ended up googling 2010-era Crafting reviews to get a memory refreshment what that system was like, and yes -- it did seem difficult at the time. However, the crafting revamp in Season 3 gave a very generous bonus to those who had already mastered the old system. Dstahl's blogs on the crafting revamps even explicitely state that people who had mastered the old system got a generous head start, leg-up, or whatever term you want to describe it.
Cryptic has been exceedingly generous in terms of respecting and acknowledging those crafters up until this point. And at this point it's even been stated that those who have mastered crafting will get some type of advantage.
So really, what is the problem? Cryptic has already been generous with each iteration. How about the players acknowledge that subsequent iterations of the crafting system gave them an advantage and that maybe it would be more mature to meet Cryptic half-way instead of giving unreasonable demands like being an instant master of the new crafting system on patch day.
And subsequent iterations of the crafting system only made it easier. Where does this 'boost' start at? What iteration of crafting are we going to use as the template for time already spent? Because you're going to have several different boosts for several different iterations of the same crafting system.
Is my 165 Large Hypo comparison that unfair? What about those who did the 165 Large Hypos but are on the bandwagon for being instant masters now? There's no way to really tell. So where does the benchmark start at? Can you even make a fair benchmark given the changes to the game? I'd argue no.
And if you did create a benchmark, the only fair place to put it would be on the current crafting iteration system where it stands today. Which... goes back to my 165 Large Hypos in 15 minutes example. Otherwise, you're being unfair to those people -- as silly as that seems.
So here's where my problem is...
If we really want to go far enough in the wayback machine, at launch the crafting system only allowed you to make... what, Mk IX Equipment?
Season 3 let you start off at Very Rare Mk X equipment.
Is that an appropriate 'boost'? That people can easily make Mk IX equipment based on their mastery of the very first iteration of crafting? Because I can't say that would be one heck of a difference, especially since none of that stuff requires dilithium.
I'm going to generalize because I'm so used to seeing ridiculous claims of entitlement based on a system that was created 4 years ago and subsequently changed over and over again.
To expect the exact 1:1 ratio of completionism for this new system is quite frankly more infantile than my generalizing of a playerbase who looks for new ways to be lazy and simply not play the game at all.
The same playerbase who simultaneously complains about a RNG-based crafting material yield, or having to pay dilithium/EC/zen/whatever for the convenience of not having to rely on the RNG. They are literally not happy when they have to play the game to craft, or to pay some kind of precious currency to bypass needing to play.
A signifigant boost =/= maxed crafting. I support the idea of a signifigant boost, the idea of an accolade, or some other type of acknowledgment -- but to bypass the system completely on account of something you did 4 years ago is ludicrous.
Tell you what, Bluegeek. I'll stop making generalizations when you stop defending players who want maxed crafting rank in the new system based on something they did 4 years ago, which pales in comparison to the work put into this new system.
Like playing hopskotch and expecting to get a grandfathered-in Olympic Gold Medal for hurdles.
as long as they don't start forcing people into using the thing to play normally i don't mind, let the PvPers blow their millions of dil and billions of EC in it.
What an idiotic statement. You really think only PVP'ers give 2 ****s about high end equipment?
The same playerbase who simultaneously complains about a RNG-based crafting material yield, or having to pay dilithium/EC/zen/whatever for the convenience of not having to rely on the RNG. They are literally not happy when they have to play the game to craft, or to pay some kind of precious currency to bypass needing to play.
Reading all these replies, I think the big misunderstanding is that this is somehow a revamp or a quality of life thing or new content. It is not. This is the implementation of a system that already exists in other Cryptic games and its purpose is to give the players something to spend real money on and to a lesser degree to create something that will take you months to complete, is extremely cheap to make for Cryptic and can be expanded almost ad infinitum.
In Neverwinter I can do the profession quests via the gateway. So this "new content" or way of "playing the game" essentially makes STO a browser game. I honestly cannot see how this can be a good thing or can be considered on par with what you could do in STO before this change. Do you really want to see STO fall to where Neverwinter is right now? In Neverwinter new content mostly consists of 1 to 3 medium sized outdoor zones with daily quests and a new profession aka browser game.
Reading all these replies, I think the big misunderstanding is that this is somehow a revamp or a quality of life thing or new content. It is not. This is the implementation of a system that already exists in other Cryptic games and its purpose is to give the players something to spend real money on and to a lesser degree to create something that will take you months to complete, is extremely cheap to make for Cryptic and can be expanded almost ad infinitum.
It is a revamp. It is a quality of life thing. Crafting was about as useless as things went. People clamored for a revamp of the crafting system for years. And now we have it, people are going back to saying, "Not good enough!"
Even if it is an optional facet of the game -- rep gear and fleet gear is still on par with it. You can ignore it entirely and still get your awesome equipment.
In Neverwinter I can do the profession quests via the gateway. So this "new content" or way of "playing the game" essentially makes STO a browser game. I honestly cannot see how this can be a good thing or can be considered on par with what you could do in STO before this change. Do you really want to see STO fall to where Neverwinter is right now? In Neverwinter new content mostly consists of 1 to 3 medium sized outdoor zones with daily quests and a new profession aka browser game.
I don't compare STO to Neverwinter. I compare STO to STO. If crafting can be done on a browser, or the gateway -- so what? The player is having to play the game. If they aren't playing the game, then they're giving money to Cryptic. The crafting UI is not such an integral part of STO that I feel players should have to physically be in game in order to do so. If they have the materials and the resources to craft -- what do I care if they're using a browser or tablet to do it? What makes that any less legitimate than my character parked in front of a glowing console in game?
The blog explicitely states that you can get everything just by playing the game. The only people complaining are those who either do not want to play the game -- in which case, why should I care what they have to say?
Or people who don't want to pay money for the convenience of not having to play the game -- in which case, why should I have to care what they have to say?
call the system we have useless all you want!!!! it dont take a degree in the working of mmo crafting to come up with this idea lets see here add gear to the system we have make it on par with rep and mission reward gear needs to be Mk 12 purple dont come up with new ways to tie dill to it dont add time gates wow that was hard to come up with maybe i should get paid
This! Their ability to outdo their own failures is quite impressive. If only this power could be harnessed for good.
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rattler2Member, Star Trek Online ModeratorPosts: 58,694Community Moderator
edited June 2014
The Neverwinter Profession thing is pretty simple. I don't play every day, but I get projects cooking, and they will be there waiting for me the next time I do get on.
STO's DOff assignments are the same, and so will this new crafting system if it takes longer than a minute to make the parts.
I can't take it anymore! Could everyone just chill out for two seconds before something CRAZY happens again?!
The nut who actually ground out many packs. The resident forum voice of reason (I HAZ FORUM REP! YAY!)
normal text = me speaking as fellow formite colored text = mod mode
We are not all looking for the same things in a game. If you think the changes are good for you then more power to you.
What I am trying to say is that this game will be very similar to Neverwinter very soon and from my pov that is not a positive thing. Cryptic is a business and if you set the incentives for a business the wrong way, you end up with undesired results. In this case, letting Cryptic get away with what essentially is empty content will just mean that they will make more and more of it, because it is the kind of content that is the cheapest to make. New content in Neverwinter means a "new adventure zone" with 1-3 gated sub zones and daily quests and a new profession. This is not original content. It is a bit like what is going on in Hollywood right now. When they figured out that the audience accepts the same content over and over again if its just from different IPs, they went for it. If you make a new movie with a big budget right now and it is about a topic that has not been done before, you run a big risk. So instead of taking this risk they just buy up all the IPs and just do the same movie over and over. They know that people will watch it. (sorry for the rant)
We are not all looking for the same things in a game. If you think the changes are good for you then more power to you.
What I am trying to say is that this game will be very similar to Neverwinter very soon and from my pov that is not a positive thing. Cryptic is a business and if you set the incentives for a business the wrong way, you end up with undesired results. In this case, letting Cryptic get away with what essentially is empty content will just mean that they will make more and more of it, because it is the kind of content that is the cheapest to make. New content in Neverwinter means a "new adventure zone" with 1-3 gated sub zones and daily quests and a new profession. This is not original content. It is a bit like what is going on in Hollywood right now. When they figured out that the audience accepts the same content over and over again if its just from different IPs, they went for it. If you make a new movie with a big budget right now and it is about a topic that has not been done before, you run a big risk. So instead of taking this risk they just buy up all the IPs and just do the same movie over and over. They know that people will watch it. (sorry for the rant)
just a conterrpoint but... if it's what people want why shouldn't they? in fact how is this anything different from what anyone else is doing? at most it's a bit more honest. which goes to prove honesty is not the best policy.
if I stop posting it doesn't make you right it. just means I don't have enough rum to continue interacting with you.
So yeah, I want whatever system maxed out because I already did the grinding for the present crafting system. Not to mention the resources and time spent. What do you guys think?
You want Cryptic to allow you to skip the grind? Do you live in Colorado perhaps and enjoy the user of certain recreational "medication"?
"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censored, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."
Oh yeah OP, on top of that you might want Cryptic to pay you for reaching the max level and also give you the ability to play with God powers and also have every alt maxed on everything instantly? Or wait, better they give you everything for free in the game and pay you on log in!:D
Get over it, being a 'max level crafter' in the old system is sooooo easy that a dog who accidentally falls onto the keyboard can achieve it, so I hope Cryptic doesn't give in to the complaining and doesn't make people like you a max crafter in the new system already.
Get over it, being a 'max level crafter' in the old system is sooooo easy that a dog who accidentally falls onto the keyboard can achieve it, so I hope Cryptic doesn't give in to the complaining and doesn't make people like you a max crafter in the new system already.
"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censored, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."
Ha! So you think maybe if certain people could get a monkey to play STO for them, after a certain amount of time when they hit max level in everything, they would stop with the stupid forums rage thing?
Awesome! So now we only need to convince Cryptic that it's a good idea to hire monkeys to play STO instead of the human customers having to do it.
Ha! So you think maybe if certain people could get a monkey to play STO for them, after a certain amount of time when they hit max level in everything, they would stop with the stupid forums rage thing?
Awesome! So now we only need to convince Cryptic that it's a good idea to hire monkeys to play STO instead of the human customers having to do it.
bananas are only 56 cents a pound. :P
if I stop posting it doesn't make you right it. just means I don't have enough rum to continue interacting with you.
So yeah, I want whatever system maxed out because I already did the grinding for the present crafting system. Not to mention the resources and time spent. What do you guys think?
Comments
The Silver Lining in the Neverwinter Crafting System is the Leadership track with it giving at least 9,600 Astral Diamonds per day by just doing the level 20 task. Although, Leadership is the longest track to complete. The easiest has to be Alchemy. Just purchase the potions off of the Auction House and do the Experiment tasks. The Aquas might need to be acquired through the Alchemy track.
I also did the old crafting system and I can't honestly say I remember it being so unrealistically difficult that I feel I deserve a signifigant leg-up from something that happened 4 years ago. Truth be told I barely remember it.
I actually ended up googling 2010-era Crafting reviews to get a memory refreshment what that system was like, and yes -- it did seem difficult at the time. However, the crafting revamp in Season 3 gave a very generous bonus to those who had already mastered the old system. Dstahl's blogs on the crafting revamps even explicitely state that people who had mastered the old system got a generous head start, leg-up, or whatever term you want to describe it.
Cryptic has been exceedingly generous in terms of respecting and acknowledging those crafters up until this point. And at this point it's even been stated that those who have mastered crafting will get some type of advantage.
So really, what is the problem? Cryptic has already been generous with each iteration. How about the players acknowledge that subsequent iterations of the crafting system gave them an advantage and that maybe it would be more mature to meet Cryptic half-way instead of giving unreasonable demands like being an instant master of the new crafting system on patch day.
And subsequent iterations of the crafting system only made it easier. Where does this 'boost' start at? What iteration of crafting are we going to use as the template for time already spent? Because you're going to have several different boosts for several different iterations of the same crafting system.
Is my 165 Large Hypo comparison that unfair? What about those who did the 165 Large Hypos but are on the bandwagon for being instant masters now? There's no way to really tell. So where does the benchmark start at? Can you even make a fair benchmark given the changes to the game? I'd argue no.
And if you did create a benchmark, the only fair place to put it would be on the current crafting iteration system where it stands today. Which... goes back to my 165 Large Hypos in 15 minutes example. Otherwise, you're being unfair to those people -- as silly as that seems.
So here's where my problem is...
If we really want to go far enough in the wayback machine, at launch the crafting system only allowed you to make... what, Mk IX Equipment?
Season 3 let you start off at Very Rare Mk X equipment.
Is that an appropriate 'boost'? That people can easily make Mk IX equipment based on their mastery of the very first iteration of crafting? Because I can't say that would be one heck of a difference, especially since none of that stuff requires dilithium.
I'm going to generalize because I'm so used to seeing ridiculous claims of entitlement based on a system that was created 4 years ago and subsequently changed over and over again.
To expect the exact 1:1 ratio of completionism for this new system is quite frankly more infantile than my generalizing of a playerbase who looks for new ways to be lazy and simply not play the game at all.
The same playerbase who simultaneously complains about a RNG-based crafting material yield, or having to pay dilithium/EC/zen/whatever for the convenience of not having to rely on the RNG. They are literally not happy when they have to play the game to craft, or to pay some kind of precious currency to bypass needing to play.
A signifigant boost =/= maxed crafting. I support the idea of a signifigant boost, the idea of an accolade, or some other type of acknowledgment -- but to bypass the system completely on account of something you did 4 years ago is ludicrous.
Tell you what, Bluegeek. I'll stop making generalizations when you stop defending players who want maxed crafting rank in the new system based on something they did 4 years ago, which pales in comparison to the work put into this new system.
Like playing hopskotch and expecting to get a grandfathered-in Olympic Gold Medal for hurdles.
What an idiotic statement. You really think only PVP'ers give 2 ****s about high end equipment?
Really? :rolleyes:
Reading all these replies, I think the big misunderstanding is that this is somehow a revamp or a quality of life thing or new content. It is not. This is the implementation of a system that already exists in other Cryptic games and its purpose is to give the players something to spend real money on and to a lesser degree to create something that will take you months to complete, is extremely cheap to make for Cryptic and can be expanded almost ad infinitum.
In Neverwinter I can do the profession quests via the gateway. So this "new content" or way of "playing the game" essentially makes STO a browser game. I honestly cannot see how this can be a good thing or can be considered on par with what you could do in STO before this change. Do you really want to see STO fall to where Neverwinter is right now? In Neverwinter new content mostly consists of 1 to 3 medium sized outdoor zones with daily quests and a new profession aka browser game.
It is a revamp. It is a quality of life thing. Crafting was about as useless as things went. People clamored for a revamp of the crafting system for years. And now we have it, people are going back to saying, "Not good enough!"
Even if it is an optional facet of the game -- rep gear and fleet gear is still on par with it. You can ignore it entirely and still get your awesome equipment.
I don't compare STO to Neverwinter. I compare STO to STO. If crafting can be done on a browser, or the gateway -- so what? The player is having to play the game. If they aren't playing the game, then they're giving money to Cryptic. The crafting UI is not such an integral part of STO that I feel players should have to physically be in game in order to do so. If they have the materials and the resources to craft -- what do I care if they're using a browser or tablet to do it? What makes that any less legitimate than my character parked in front of a glowing console in game?
The blog explicitely states that you can get everything just by playing the game. The only people complaining are those who either do not want to play the game -- in which case, why should I care what they have to say?
Or people who don't want to pay money for the convenience of not having to play the game -- in which case, why should I have to care what they have to say?
system Lord Baal is dead
STO's DOff assignments are the same, and so will this new crafting system if it takes longer than a minute to make the parts.
normal text = me speaking as fellow formite
colored text = mod mode
What I am trying to say is that this game will be very similar to Neverwinter very soon and from my pov that is not a positive thing. Cryptic is a business and if you set the incentives for a business the wrong way, you end up with undesired results. In this case, letting Cryptic get away with what essentially is empty content will just mean that they will make more and more of it, because it is the kind of content that is the cheapest to make. New content in Neverwinter means a "new adventure zone" with 1-3 gated sub zones and daily quests and a new profession. This is not original content. It is a bit like what is going on in Hollywood right now. When they figured out that the audience accepts the same content over and over again if its just from different IPs, they went for it. If you make a new movie with a big budget right now and it is about a topic that has not been done before, you run a big risk. So instead of taking this risk they just buy up all the IPs and just do the same movie over and over. They know that people will watch it. (sorry for the rant)
just a conterrpoint but... if it's what people want why shouldn't they? in fact how is this anything different from what anyone else is doing? at most it's a bit more honest. which goes to prove honesty is not the best policy.
if I stop posting it doesn't make you right it. just means I don't have enough rum to continue interacting with you.
You want Cryptic to allow you to skip the grind? Do you live in Colorado perhaps and enjoy the user of certain recreational "medication"?
- Judge Aaron Satie
Get over it, being a 'max level crafter' in the old system is sooooo easy that a dog who accidentally falls onto the keyboard can achieve it, so I hope Cryptic doesn't give in to the complaining and doesn't make people like you a max crafter in the new system already.
Cheers.
Hey that reminds of
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Infinite_monkey_theorem
- Judge Aaron Satie
Ha! So you think maybe if certain people could get a monkey to play STO for them, after a certain amount of time when they hit max level in everything, they would stop with the stupid forums rage thing?
Awesome! So now we only need to convince Cryptic that it's a good idea to hire monkeys to play STO instead of the human customers having to do it.
bananas are only 56 cents a pound. :P
if I stop posting it doesn't make you right it. just means I don't have enough rum to continue interacting with you.
Would you like fries with that?
how 'bout a pony?