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Design your own Crafting System
macronius
Member Posts: 2,526
There has been a lot of criticism of the new crafting system to be introduced soon with 9.5. Personally, I agree with nearly all of the critique but I wanted to start a constructive thread on how crafting should work. Feel free to cite other MMOs and games while you are at it. Mine will be TOR ... Circa version 1.3.
1. Material gathering is done via boffs with the ability to chain missions. There is an EC cost for running the missions and grades of mats matching the gear ... Common, uncommon ... Very rare.
2. Materials are also available from ground and space missions and drop as random loot from NPC. The rarer mats drop very infrequently. Clusters are brought back with a new Genesis engine.
3. Basic weapon schematics ... Common ... Are sold at crafting vendor along with low grade mats. The mats sold here are much more expensive and only are available as a convenience.
4. Starting with basic schematics you build gear and then do R&D on said gear. The R&D has a low chance of generating a better schematic which adds a random modifier and upgrades to the next grade. So R&D on common yields possibly an uncommon with 1 modifier ( random ) and so on. R&D consumes gear.
5. There is no dilithium requirement for research or building gear up to Mk XI and green. Dilithium costs scale up on higher grade and level gear in proportion to all else. So building MK XII very rare costs 15K for example. Blue might cost 4 k and green Mk XII maybe a token 1k.
6. Dilithium monetization is applied only when building the actual gear. It is not applied to the research itself.
7. Once you have the schematic you can always build said piece of gear ... With the appropriate modifiers. Mats are always needed though and rare gear requires some rare mats ... Very rare requires very rare mats ... Etc.
8. You can only specialize in a limited number of schools ... Say 2 or 3 ... And / Or you can only specialize in a limited number of schematics.
9. For fun and profit, you can add a 4th completely random stat or proc to gear if you crit. Each type of gear can have 1 of x number of USEFUL stat added. Extra penetration for torpedoes and mines ... Greater accuracy for beams ... Etc.
That's my basic outline what are your ideas?
1. Material gathering is done via boffs with the ability to chain missions. There is an EC cost for running the missions and grades of mats matching the gear ... Common, uncommon ... Very rare.
2. Materials are also available from ground and space missions and drop as random loot from NPC. The rarer mats drop very infrequently. Clusters are brought back with a new Genesis engine.
3. Basic weapon schematics ... Common ... Are sold at crafting vendor along with low grade mats. The mats sold here are much more expensive and only are available as a convenience.
4. Starting with basic schematics you build gear and then do R&D on said gear. The R&D has a low chance of generating a better schematic which adds a random modifier and upgrades to the next grade. So R&D on common yields possibly an uncommon with 1 modifier ( random ) and so on. R&D consumes gear.
5. There is no dilithium requirement for research or building gear up to Mk XI and green. Dilithium costs scale up on higher grade and level gear in proportion to all else. So building MK XII very rare costs 15K for example. Blue might cost 4 k and green Mk XII maybe a token 1k.
6. Dilithium monetization is applied only when building the actual gear. It is not applied to the research itself.
7. Once you have the schematic you can always build said piece of gear ... With the appropriate modifiers. Mats are always needed though and rare gear requires some rare mats ... Very rare requires very rare mats ... Etc.
8. You can only specialize in a limited number of schools ... Say 2 or 3 ... And / Or you can only specialize in a limited number of schematics.
9. For fun and profit, you can add a 4th completely random stat or proc to gear if you crit. Each type of gear can have 1 of x number of USEFUL stat added. Extra penetration for torpedoes and mines ... Greater accuracy for beams ... Etc.
That's my basic outline what are your ideas?
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Post edited by macronius on
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I mean honestly I'd sink 20k Dil into a crafting, if I KNEW beyond a shadow of a doubt I knew what I was getting.
Instead its completely random? No.
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http://forum.arcgames.com/startrekonline/discussion/1145998/star-trek-battles-channel-got-canon/p1
still a dil sink, but least you'd know what you are getting.
Star Trek Battles member. Want to roll with a good group of people regardless of fleets and not have to worry about DPS while doing STFs? Come join the channel and join in the fun!
http://forum.arcgames.com/startrekonline/discussion/1145998/star-trek-battles-channel-got-canon/p1
This. If I could pick the quality and bonuses I'd have no problem.
Minus the dil cost I think it would be closer to workable. (depending on details ofc)
I would keep following my stunted train of thought but tbh, somethings got to give.
The randomness or the dil cost.
I don't know
system Lord Baal is dead
Maybe the schematics could be random low odds drops as well, ex: ap acc modifier recipe drops in this place etc etc.
Would certainly get everyone playing all kinds of different content. trying to find where it drops or when that is known trying to get it.
I am going to be killed for that idea aren't I? :eek:
The main problem with the old crafting was, that it had useless outcome and it was a little too expensive. The way it worked was actually nice in my opinion. So yeah, they changed what was good and added some gamble on top of it. Well played cryptic
i like it alot better then what is coming facebook doffing for TRIBBLE dill playing a bigger role lottery chances on Mk12 gear and still have not seen anyone say if its on par with fleet
system Lord Baal is dead
thats too dang logical for cryptic in the voice of grandpa from Jackie Chan adventures come cryptic... we must do.... REEEEE VAMP to sto!!!
system Lord Baal is dead
Dilithium costs need to stay to keep all gear competitive but it should be cheaper because of the time and resources needed to craft vs. rep or fleet store purchase. If there were no cost except grind then no one would do anything else for dilithium gear since rep and fleet gear has a grind of its own plus dilithium.
EDIT: Use the old DOFF UI as it was concise and small vs. the new version. Just incorporate a tab for crafting.
Lifetime Sub since June 2010
Just think of the possibilities with being able to build truly specialized to you gear.
Want X piece of gear with a certain set of modifiers? (whatever that might be)
If you have the modifier schematics you can do it.
I don't think the dil price would be much of an issue then.
Think the horse has already bolted for this to be used tho, shame
Imagine what actually could have been possible in crafting:
Changing modifiers on existing gear -> even very special mods like [arc] for weapons
Adding modifiers on existing purple gear -> creating ultra rare items
Rerolling stats on your drops...
And what do we get? Expensive doff assignments with random outcome
I hear you, it's such a missed opportunity. :mad:
Material availability:
1) Subset of materials only available through loot drops. Different mobs drop different materials.
1a) This means that in order to make Dominion Polaron weapons, for example, you'd need drops from Dominion mobs.
2) Subset of materials only available through DOFF assignments.
3) Subset of materials only available through scanning mini-game.
4) All materials are freely trade-able on the Exchange.
New item crafting:
1) Only white quality items are created *new*.
2) New basic variations only available through crafting. E.g. "Baryon" Beam Array with unique proc.
Existing item upgrading:
1) All items can be tweaked.
2) Every item can be upgraded in rarity, up to highest tier.
3) Items are upgraded in rarity one step at a time (though Crits might skip a step).
4) Rarity upgrades have a 100% chance to succeed, but also have a Dilithium cost.
5) When upgrading rarity, the new [mod] can be selected, but only has an x% chance of actually being the one you select.
6) Players can run projects to tweak individual [mods] on an item, with an x% chance of success. These projects do not cost Dilithium by default, but accept Dilithium costing components to guarantee success.
De-construction:
1) All items can be de-constructed.
2) De-constructing rewards a fraction of the material cost of the item, and has a chance of one of the following:
2a) Unlocking a [mod] for use against that item type (e.g. you need to learn how to use [mods] when crafting).
2b) Unlocking an item rarity (e.g. you can't craft Rare quality phasers until you've de-constructed at least one Rare quality phaser).
2c) Granting a buff to crafting skill against that item.
3) De-constructing rare items, like lockbox weapons or Fleet gear gives a chance to grant access to that kind of weapon or proc.
So to summarise...
Players can tweak existing gear without involving Dilithium, but some recipes or mods only unlock after de-constructing items.
Dilithium is used directly only when increasing an item's rarity (or to increase odds of getting a success on other crafts). Players have incentives to buy Dilithium gear and de-construct them, but are not forced to.
The quality of DOFFs and materials affect the duration of the craft process.
I'd prefer no failure possibility, but if a failure possbility, I don't want to see any Dilithum or expensive components wasted. Also, if different result qualities are possible, I still want all possible outcomes decided by me (e.g. if I decide to make a Phaser Beam Array [Acc] [CritD] [DMG], and get only a "green" result, I want it to be an [Acc] Phaser.)
Ideally there would be no dilithium requirements. I am fine with time gating and I am fine with Dilithium allowing you to do things faster or easier.
But you can think up the most awesome ideas, in the end, it depends on what Cryptic wants to have for a Crafting system, and we can only provide feedback. Tell them exactly what you dislike, what possible alternatives are. But don't suggest sweeping, major changes, because they won't happen.
Don't invent your own Crafting system, unless you do it purely for your own entertainment, or you plan to make your own Crafting app or game with Crafting.
When it comes to science fiction I see the term crafting as obsolete. So just for nit-picks sake I would rename this new system a 'retrofit system'. The idea is that you combine salvaged bits n' bobs to create new equipment, each piece totally unique.
There would be an element of randomness about it, and since Cryptic do so love their time gates some patience would be required as well.
So. The first step would be salvage. Every enemy in the game on ground and in space would have a small chance of dropping salvage. And I mean a small chance, I'd foresee workable pieces of tech to be hard to come by since every target in STO is violenced to death quite aggressively.
These salvaged parts are like random pieces of a jigsaw and they come in all flavours. The second part would be to figure out what they are, so ship them off via a doff assignment for analysis. The gamble part takes place here, the success of the analysis determines any specific procs or affects the salvage has.
It comes back to you as a named tech module and now can be combined with other pieces. I can see a UI that is basically a grid, and like the new kit system you use a base 'frame' and fill the gaps with the new modules.
A box next to the grid updates the final layout of the item as you swap and change modules, and once your happy with the results you name it, press OK and done. New item.
I'd want to see real customisation at play here so the modules would be very diverse. If it were a weapon everything from beam colour, sound, proc effect and modifiers are determined by these modules. The affects and mods would also go beyond what we have now, and have some unique to the retrofit system.
I would also turn the proc on weapons into modules. I realize that everyone would probably just go with the AP proc, but I don't care. The point in this is to be able to use whatever weapon type you want without having to worry that you're using a "bad" type. It would put an end to threads like "Phaser are teh suck" and "Why is Tetryon so TRIBBLE?" Pick whatever weapon type you want as a base frame and then plug in whatever modules you want to make it go.
Modules would then be added to crafting. Modules could also be added to lockboxes and drop loot tables. Maybe have some new types for crafting. Maybe add in a rarity scale for modules too.
I feel like not reusing the kit module tech is a huge miss.
Mine Trap Supporter
To make anything we need a supply of materials. Raw materials should be obtained from a mine. NPCs dropping banana splits and a pile or two of tetryon particles when we shoot them dead makes no sense whatsoever. Keep the exploration maps, but create a simple mine item which generates a set number of crafting materials per day. The more of these mines you have, the more refined materials you can accumulate to meet production needs. This would make exploration worth while for players to do.
The next step should be developing the item we want to research. Want to make a ray gun with ACC x 3 and a disruptor proc? The player needs to learn how. So we use the same base system we have now. Completing low level gear rewards skill points in one of a number of specific areas of specialty or discipline. Make these correspond to the schematic types. Want to build any kind of beam array? Better know Beam Arrays as a discipline. Want to make an impulse engine? Need to know that discipline. Get me so far?
Next, those wonderful weapons procs and special abilities. They should have to be researched as well, but once known you can use them.
Now we can make an item. It should be fully customizable. Common gets 1 ability, Uncommon gets 2, Rare gets 3, Very Rare gets 4, Ultra Rare gets 4 and a special ability like radiation damage or knock back or scaling damage resist. Unique gets something truly unique. But each has a cost for prototyping and materials. To produce an identical copy after the prototype just costs the materials. Results should be very low for failure for easy stuff and moderate for prototypes, and should not result in catastrophic loss of resources.
What has got to happen, however, is chopping time spent managing resources and grinding to about a tenth of what we have now. Logging into a game should be about having fun with friends and playing actual content, not jumping map after map to get stuff for hours just to build wealth on the exchange.
Player and forumite formerly known as FEELTHETHUNDER
Expatriot Might Characters in EXILE
Modules are used for console slots, equipment slots, boff seatings and visual aspects.
"Visual aspects" encompass all parts related to class...escorts are restricted to all escort parts, cruiser are restricted to all cruiser parts and so on. This would not include lobi and lockbox ships besides mirror versions.
Leveling up process requires you to get a horta boff for fusionesque purposes.
Tiers are designed to craft low level gear at low tiers and high level gear at high tiers. Rarity is based on the mats supplied, not chance based. If you supply the right mats, you select what mods, rarity, and equipment you'll get out of crafting.
That's the basic idea what id do. Chance of something good or something poor happening is not how today's communities like their gaming
My PvE/PvP hybrid skill tree
Add deconstruction:
--You assign doffs to break down and reverse engineer salvage (loot drops); success gives either a quality improvement B][COLOR="White"]Common[/COLOR][/B]>[B][COLOR="Green"]Uncommon[/COLOR][/B]>[B][COLOR="RoyalBlue"]Rare[/COLOR][/B]>[COLOR="Purple"][B]Very Rare[/B][/COLOR or [Mod] component; crit success gives either additional components, a B][COLOR="Purple"]Very Rare[/COLOR][/B]>[B][COLOR="DarkSlateBlue"]Ultra Rare[/COLOR][/B quality improvement component, or creates a unique [Mod] component such as [Arc],[CrtX], [KB3], an added proc, etc. Also works with unique items. For example, the Omni-Directional Antiproton Beam Array could be deconstructed, but the component you get is random so that deconstruction does not guarantee getting an [Arc]. In addition, discovering an improvement or modification component unlocks that item in the main crafting menu, which can then be crafted using data samples, particle traces, and Unreplicatable Materials (500>1000>2500>5000 dilithium equivalent for B][COLOR="Green"]Uncommon[/COLOR][/B]>[B][COLOR="RoyalBlue"]Rare[/COLOR][/B]>[COLOR="Purple"][B]Very Rare[/B][/COLOR]>[B][COLOR="DarkSlateBlue"]Ultra Rare[/COLOR][/B outcome upgrade components and 1000/5000 dilithium equivalent for standard/unique [Mod] components). For example, this would allow crafting components to upgrade a Beam Array Mk XII [Acc] [Dmg] to a Beam Array Mk XII [Acc] [Dmg] [Arc], at a cost of 7500 dilithium equivalent in Unreplicatable Materials. Or you can just deconstruct a few things and get the components that way.
Add Upgrade and Modify projects:
--Upgrade: requires an item to upgrade, a quality improvement component of the appropriate type (upgrading a Common item requires a COLOR="White"][B]Common[/B][/COLOR]>[COLOR="Green"][B]Uncommon[/B][/COLOR component) and a [Mod] component to select the one being added. Using a doff of equal quality to the desired outcome (Very Rare doff for upgrading to a Very Rare item) guarantees success, with a chance at failure from using a less skilled doff and a chance to crit with a more skilled doff; crit success refunds one or more components used in the process. Ultra Rare upgrades would have a small chance of failure even with a Very Rare doff, since they are pushing the limits of technology.
--Modify: requires an item to modify and a [Mod] component. Any standard [Mod] can be selected for removal, and any [Mod] you have the component for may added in its place. Using a doff of equal quality to the desired outcome (Very Rare doff for modifying a Very Rare item) guarantees success, with a chance at failure from using a less skilled doff and a chance to crit with a more skilled doff; crit success refunds one or more components used in the process. Modifying Ultra Rare items would have a small chance of failure even with a Very Rare doff, since they are already pushing the limits of technology to start with.
--The full list for upgrade and modifying is always available at the appropriate crafting hub, while the ship/doff list varies hourly.
See, it can be made competitive with other sources of gear, add doff interaction like they seem to want (needing more doffs to cover both crafting and doffing is more likely to sell the General Recruitement and Reassign Underperforming Officers dilithium costs that I for one never pay, as well as sell more Roster space unlocks from the C-Store... you know that's part of the monetization in the new system, right?), use the RNG (again, inefficiencies promote spending, thus the chance for failure on the Tribble version) sensibly, and build on existing mechanics rather than trying to recreate the whole thing. This is just a rough layout, of course, but I'd have been happier with even this over the pure RNG, long timers, and silly cost relative to alternative equipment sources that the current Tribble setup has.
http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showpost.php?p=17618381&postcount=10
Jo Cox 22.6.1974 - 16.6.2016
Thinking on your TOR suggestion and the fact they put a slotted item in the game.
Make slotted highend gear. Like TOR you get one crafting skill. Higher levels let you make more and better items under your specialty. But one person cannot make everything.
Example. You take the hand weapon specialization. Once you know how to make a phaser pistol you can make white level. Then green, then blue etc. Once you hit blue and purple quality they begin to get slots.
Someone else makes mods. Learning DOT, knock back etc. To be put into weapons or armour etc.
This makes people buy and sell pieces they need and fleets can prioritize their people in certain areas as well.
Originally Posted by pwlaughingtrendy
Network engineers are not ship designers.
Nor should they be. Their ships would look weird.
Want a torpedo that outperforms all known torpedos? Just get on your crafting console and play the 'crafting version of the dilithium mining minigame' for say... 17 solid hours... and voila! One beautiful mk xiii +crit console.
Couldnt abuse it with 30 alts since it takes all day to craft no matter what.
Number of ship slots is like 23+, so you could craft your way to a monstrous all crafted ship in only 23 days of crafting for 17 hours straight... IF you can handle it... Muhahahahaah.
Have a job? Guess you'll have to stretch those 23 crafting days out over your weekends so you're not going to see your whole mk xiii ship for another 23+ weeks... unless these crafted mk xiii things are sellable on the exchange!!!
Now thats a way to justify a selling price if something took you 17 hours of battling the mind numbing minigame for 17 hours straight.
I guess the only drawback to this system is that the asian sweatshops could run it in shifts...