They honestly better keep dilithium out of the system completely.
Thats what completely killed the old crafting system with the replicatable materials fiasco.
i hope so to but come on this cryptic PWE we talking about they love to tie dill to every thing they can
They honestly better keep dilithium out of the system completely.
Thats what completely killed the old crafting system with the replicatable materials fiasco.
Yeah, it wasn't things like the Mk XII Reputation Gear, the Fleet-quality equipment from Starbases, or Lockbox/Lobi Store things. It wasn't the fact 99% of the stuff you could craft you could easily loot by killing enough bosses or placing in enough fleet actions.
It was that gosh-darned dilithium in the crafting system!
You need to create 165 Large Hypos in order to max out crafting.
What kind of 'grandfather' clause are people expecting to get out of the crafting revamp?
\snip
Completely agree. Actually 'crafting' anything in the game is a moot point. It was always cheaper to buy the finished product with ec, than the cost and annoyance of the process itself.
AEGIS? 6 days of loot farming.
Crafting points did - nothing - for development.
Now this could be a major change, and I'm hoping it is... imagine personalized / customized weapons and gear. Take an Adapted Omega set and increase its abilities, or direct energy to a different ability.
The more 'expensive' the base set, the greater the cost and time necessary to enhance it. Failure just means you start again.
Doff assignments are required at multiple-steps in the process. Processes should take weeks or months to achieve. Yeah - essentially a crafting reputation.
I HAVE NO PROBLEM WITH ANOTHER GRIND IF IT DOES SOMETHING COOL.
Entirely new weapons in new power ranges. Adapted XIII Undine weapons perhaps (leveraging heavily on the graphics update icon show on the Reddit forums).
Add a new weapons 'class' every 14 months. Suddenly crafting becomes a part of the game.
My Two Bits
Admiral Thrax
Who mysteriously crossed the 1000 post threshold in the last week and never noticed.
Yeah, it wasn't things like the Mk XII Reputation Gear, the Fleet-quality equipment from Starbases, or Lockbox/Lobi Store things. It wasn't the fact 99% of the stuff you could craft you could easily loot by killing enough bosses or placing in enough fleet actions.
It was that gosh-darned dilithium in the crafting system!
most of that was not even in the game when dill got tied to crafting that was done before F2p or not to long after
The Borg set showed up around the same time as the Aegis set during the first crafting revamp in Season 3. Crafting has always played second-string to STF gear. It simply was moved from second string to third string. Then fourth string. Then fifth string. Eventually it isn't even part of the orchestra due to the sheer amount of better gear that subsequently existed.
i say its naive not to say it was even partly to blame
Partly to blame? I will concede that.
But this is a case of multiple factors that resulted in crafting gear becoming obsolete. In the grand scheme of contributing factors (Fleet gear, Rep Gear, Lockbox and Lobi Gear), Dilithium played such a small part it could barely be recognized as a major contributing factor, much less 'killing crafting completely', like this hyperbolic nonsense I'm reading.
It's a classic case of hating dilithium -- not the fact Cryptic had no idea what to do with the crafting system. That was the major flaw.
Cryptic has/had no idea what place crafting has in STO. Certainly not in regards to the long-term. Crafting was a victim of poor planning, poor foresight, and bad decision making. Dilithium might have been an unwise decision, but it was hardly the smoking gun.
We can hope that this revamp not only reveals Cryptic has come to a decision on what place Crafting will have in the game, but will actually be viable and sustainable over a very long period of time.
But this is a case of multiple factors that resulted in crafting gear becoming obsolete. In the grand scheme of contributing factors (Fleet gear, Rep Gear, Lockbox and Lobi Gear), Dilithium played such a small part it could barely be recognized as a major contributing factor, much less 'killing crafting compltely', like this hyperbolic nonsense I'm reading.
fleet TRIBBLE Rep TRIBBLE lockbox TRIBBLE lobi TRIBBLE was not in the game when dill got tied to crafting all that did was make sure it stayed dead till now only sets at that time was out MACO borg and the crafted aegis set
Well, to me, adding dil requirements might not have 'killed' crafting, though it didn't help.
Honestly, I look back at then and now, and see crafting as a good thing for a newer player to have. Everyone was kind of on the same page in a way. Everyone could gather materials and craft stuff on the level as anyone else. You didn't need anything...hmm...extraneous to do it. But after dil was made a part of it, people didn't want to spend dil or large amounts of ECs on it. It removed the ability for newer players to be a part of that system as easily.
It was also a good way for said newer player to get some decent gear, especially if they were in a fleet. Such as making blue Mk XI consoles.
I remain empathetic to the concerns of my community, but do me a favor and lay off the god damn name calling and petty remarks. It will get you nowhere.
I must admit, respect points to Trendy for laying down the law like that.
Well, to me, adding dil requirements might not have 'killed' crafting, though it didn't help.
I compare 'Crafting' to an obese alcoholic who smokes 6 packs a day and gets into fights at the local bar every weekend, until finally someone pulls out a gun and shoots the guy.
It was a reckless lifestyle and an irresponsible chain of bad decision making. I compare Dilithium to one of the 'vices' he had, but the smoking gun came in the form of either the Mk XII rep gear or the Fleet holding gear.
To blame Crafting's ultimate failure on dilithium in the system is like blaming the guy's poor diet, alcoholism, or cigarettes on his death when it was another guy who shot him with a gun.
Dilithium in the system unhealthy? Unwise? Sure.
The primary culprit in its obsoleteness? Not even close.
I compare 'Crafting' to an obese alcoholic who smokes 6 packs a day and gets into fights at the local bar every weekend, until finally someone pulls out a gun and shoots the guy.
It was a reckless lifestyle and an irresponsible chain of bad decision making. I compare Dilithium to one of the 'vices' he had, but the smoking gun came in the form of either the Mk XII rep gear or the Fleet holding gear.
To blame Crafting's ultimate failure on dilithium in the system is like blaming the guy's poor diet, alcoholism, or cigarettes on his death when it was another guy who shot him with a gun.
Dilithium in the system unhealthy? Unwise? Sure.
The primary culprit in its obsoleteness? Not even close.
im going to make my bet now 1000 Quatloo we get a rep crafting with time gates tied heavily more to dill maybe even new marks to grind and any one who maxed crafting gets a slap to the face and has to start over from scratch
I've always liked the idea of my toons making something. Something which is only available through research and development. But the current crafting sub game(if this is the right word) feels very slapdash. The type and quality of items is okay if one is running a quartermaster depot for lower level toons or Fleet mates. But for a L50 toon, none of it has any real value. Except for the Aegis. Which itself probably could use a slight buff.
A revamp of the crafting system had better have gotten the same care and attention the revamp of ESD and the Rep system received. Otherwise it is the same stale perfume in a new bottle. The Dilithium requirement was a mistake. A new player can spend Dil on making stuff which is okay but not great or spend Dil on that new ship or Rep gear.
Which one did you go for? Unh hunh. Thought so.
As to wiping out my current crafting abilities, I'm not all that concerned. Since I've no real attachment to anything currently capable of being made. Means I'll have a reason again to search for data samples and other items. Which means I'll revisit parts of STO I've long since forgotten about. Wailing and teeth gnashing in public over a possible reset, which has yet to be seen or proven to exist, is unattractive.
In short, I am looking forward to the new crafting system. Some of my favorite Trek episodes are those where the crew attempts to make something new. Sometimes the results came out very good (e.g. Delta Flyer). I am strongly hoping for a similar positive result here.
A six year old boy and his starship. Living the dream.
They had better reduce the number of sample type stuff or figure out an alternate storage mechanism to store it without taking up an inordinate number of storage slots, say like with a crafting materials storage container that can store many multiple sample type items within that only takes up one or so inventory slots.
'But to be logical is not to be right', and 'nothing' on God's earth could ever 'make it' right!'
Judge Dan Haywood
'As l speak now, the words are forming in my head.
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
I am happy with what they have done so far since the start of season 9. i am however unhappy with so many things in the game. Starting with how hard it is to do the ground combat at times with little focus on ground abilities and an extensive focus on space combat the game tends to make you want to stay and fight in space more than anything else. but most of my other complaints are more lack of content and the like so there more personal preference.
Let me tell you what line in that dev post scares me:
We moved on through the whole process of crafting, introducing multiple schools for captains to level up in
I remember how crafting worked when STO launched. At the beginning of 2010. Before Season 1-ish when the system got its first remake.
You'd run to one vendor to be able to craft one thing, run to another vendor to craft another thing, other vendors would be locked out until you had crafted enough stuff at the previous ones. The whole system was ridiculous and terrible.
"Multiple schools to level up in" sounds an awful lot like that.
so again not in game when dill was tied to crafting
You're being intentionally obtuse. I'm actually under the impression you don't read anything I have to say on the matter, therefore I'll extend to you the same courtesy you extend me.
I never played SWTOR but heard about how people liked their crafting system because it involved swtor's equivalent of duty officers. I think they made a whole bunch of DOFF Crafting Assigments:
- The better your doff, the better the crafted item's stats will be.
- If the assignment fails you loose your dilithium and materials.
- But if the assignment crits you get some desirable and very rare stats and procs on your crafted item.
I never played SWTOR but heard about how people liked their crafting system because it involved swtor's equivalent of duty officers. I think they made a whole bunch of DOFF Crafting Assigments:
- The better your doff, the better the crafted item's stats will be.
- If the assignment fails you loose your dilithium and materials.
- But if the assignment crits you get some desirable and very rare stats and procs on your crafted item.
Just my guess
I played SWTOR, and crafting was highly hyped for pretty much nothing. You basically send your companions (STO boff equivalent, sort of) in mission to retrieve mats (you can also find it while playing). They can also be sent to crafts items. Otherwise, it's exactly the same than anywhere else. Craft X items to lvlup your craft rank, unlock and buy new recipes, rinse and repeat until you reach max rank.
The companions have their own stats for craft, either efficiency (lower the time needed to do a mission/craft) or critical chance for a specific sort of craft/mats mission.
As for the mission itself, it was highly disappointing, since they hyped the "new" crafts, like investigations, archeology, diplomacy... but in the end, it was like our DOFF mission, just a bit of text, and the same mission over and over, with little to no differences between the crafts. They all looked the same, and we never had any investigation or diplomacy to do.
As for STO crafting revamp, I'm almost certain it will be a copy and paste of the NWN craft system. Send doffs to retrieve mats/craft items. With maybe the same rare missions for some unique mats/more resources.
Would it be better to max out crafting and craft a few items NOW before the changes? What's the consensus on that question?
I don't have the ec to purchase an Aegis set on the exchange atm, and wonder if it would be better to craft it now, or wait? Will we be able to update gear (like the updates to certain Mk XI to XII gear) and turn an existing Aegis XI set to an even better XII set? Or will we, like the blog says, have to start from scratch?
Keep in mind also that any time Cryptic says something will be fun, they most likely mean a grind, since a grind is what they somehow think that's what we enjoy nowadays...
CM
"Equipped with his five senses, man explores the universe around him and calls the adventure science." - Edwin Hubble
so in other words for us who did max craft on some toon will now have to start over?
I would expect so, but it hardly matters. Currently my crafting toon can't create anything useful with the investment in crafting he did, in the future it will stay the same.
At least in the future, I may be able to make my crafting toon actually craft useful stuff.
That said - There was originally a goal to give people that have mastered the current crafting system to give them some advantage. Maybe something like the old Mark-To-Dilithium conversion?
Star Trek Online Advancement: You start with lowbie gear, you end with Lobi gear.
Would it be better to max out crafting and craft a few items NOW before the changes? What's the consensus on that question?
I don't have the ec to purchase an Aegis set on the exchange atm, and wonder if it would be better to craft it now, or wait? Will we be able to update gear (like the updates to certain Mk XI to XII gear) and turn an existing Aegis XI set to an even better XII set? Or will we, like the blog says, have to start from scratch?
Keep in mind also that any time Cryptic says something will be fun, they most likely mean a grind, since a grind is what they somehow think that's what we enjoy nowadays...
CM
There is no way to tell, until we know how the transition will work. By then it may or may not be too late.
Star Trek Online Advancement: You start with lowbie gear, you end with Lobi gear.
That said - There was originally a goal to give people that have mastered the current crafting system to give them some advantage. Maybe something like the old Mark-To-Dilithium conversion?
I wouldn't get too hopeful about anything like that. I doubt that it'd be much of anything at all honestly.
I remain empathetic to the concerns of my community, but do me a favor and lay off the god damn name calling and petty remarks. It will get you nowhere.
I must admit, respect points to Trendy for laying down the law like that.
Let me tell you what line in that dev post scares me:
I remember how crafting worked when STO launched. At the beginning of 2010. Before Season 1-ish when the system got its first remake.
You'd run to one vendor to be able to craft one thing, run to another vendor to craft another thing, other vendors would be locked out until you had crafted enough stuff at the previous ones. The whole system was ridiculous and terrible.
"Multiple schools to level up in" sounds an awful lot like that.
Yeah, I remember that grind. And I remember being relieved when they changed it all to the easier "One R&D Level To Rule Them All".
But I didn't bow out of the crafting system strictly because of power creep.
I bowed out when they introduced dilithium costs for gear that was little or no better than the stuff you could earn in other parts of the game. At the time, Cryptic was introducing dilithium costs for more and more stuff. And then came the fleet system.
My dilithium was spoken for and crafting was suddenly no longer all that worthwhile as it consumed valuable resources and time for too little benefit.
And that's why the crafting system needs an overhaul. Hopefully they nail it this time.
My views may not represent those of Cryptic Studios or Perfect World Entertainment. You can file a "forums and website" support ticket here Link: How to PM - Twitter @STOMod_Bluegeek
Comments
i hope so to but come on this cryptic PWE we talking about they love to tie dill to every thing they can
system Lord Baal is dead
Yeah, it wasn't things like the Mk XII Reputation Gear, the Fleet-quality equipment from Starbases, or Lockbox/Lobi Store things. It wasn't the fact 99% of the stuff you could craft you could easily loot by killing enough bosses or placing in enough fleet actions.
It was that gosh-darned dilithium in the crafting system!
Nailed it.
Completely agree. Actually 'crafting' anything in the game is a moot point. It was always cheaper to buy the finished product with ec, than the cost and annoyance of the process itself.
AEGIS? 6 days of loot farming.
Crafting points did - nothing - for development.
Now this could be a major change, and I'm hoping it is... imagine personalized / customized weapons and gear. Take an Adapted Omega set and increase its abilities, or direct energy to a different ability.
The more 'expensive' the base set, the greater the cost and time necessary to enhance it. Failure just means you start again.
Doff assignments are required at multiple-steps in the process. Processes should take weeks or months to achieve. Yeah - essentially a crafting reputation.
I HAVE NO PROBLEM WITH ANOTHER GRIND IF IT DOES SOMETHING COOL.
Entirely new weapons in new power ranges. Adapted XIII Undine weapons perhaps (leveraging heavily on the graphics update icon show on the Reddit forums).
Add a new weapons 'class' every 14 months. Suddenly crafting becomes a part of the game.
My Two Bits
Admiral Thrax
Who mysteriously crossed the 1000 post threshold in the last week and never noticed.
most of that was not even in the game when dill got tied to crafting that was done before F2p or not to long after
system Lord Baal is dead
The Borg set showed up around the same time as the Aegis set during the first crafting revamp in Season 3. Crafting has always played second-string to STF gear. It simply was moved from second string to third string. Then fourth string. Then fifth string. Eventually it isn't even part of the orchestra due to the sheer amount of better gear that subsequently existed.
To blame it on dilithium is naive. At best.
i say its naive not to say it was even partly to blame
system Lord Baal is dead
Partly to blame? I will concede that.
But this is a case of multiple factors that resulted in crafting gear becoming obsolete. In the grand scheme of contributing factors (Fleet gear, Rep Gear, Lockbox and Lobi Gear), Dilithium played such a small part it could barely be recognized as a major contributing factor, much less 'killing crafting completely', like this hyperbolic nonsense I'm reading.
It's a classic case of hating dilithium -- not the fact Cryptic had no idea what to do with the crafting system. That was the major flaw.
Cryptic has/had no idea what place crafting has in STO. Certainly not in regards to the long-term. Crafting was a victim of poor planning, poor foresight, and bad decision making. Dilithium might have been an unwise decision, but it was hardly the smoking gun.
We can hope that this revamp not only reveals Cryptic has come to a decision on what place Crafting will have in the game, but will actually be viable and sustainable over a very long period of time.
fleet TRIBBLE Rep TRIBBLE lockbox TRIBBLE lobi TRIBBLE was not in the game when dill got tied to crafting all that did was make sure it stayed dead till now only sets at that time was out MACO borg and the crafted aegis set
system Lord Baal is dead
Honestly, I look back at then and now, and see crafting as a good thing for a newer player to have. Everyone was kind of on the same page in a way. Everyone could gather materials and craft stuff on the level as anyone else. You didn't need anything...hmm...extraneous to do it. But after dil was made a part of it, people didn't want to spend dil or large amounts of ECs on it. It removed the ability for newer players to be a part of that system as easily.
It was also a good way for said newer player to get some decent gear, especially if they were in a fleet. Such as making blue Mk XI consoles.
I compare 'Crafting' to an obese alcoholic who smokes 6 packs a day and gets into fights at the local bar every weekend, until finally someone pulls out a gun and shoots the guy.
It was a reckless lifestyle and an irresponsible chain of bad decision making. I compare Dilithium to one of the 'vices' he had, but the smoking gun came in the form of either the Mk XII rep gear or the Fleet holding gear.
To blame Crafting's ultimate failure on dilithium in the system is like blaming the guy's poor diet, alcoholism, or cigarettes on his death when it was another guy who shot him with a gun.
Dilithium in the system unhealthy? Unwise? Sure.
The primary culprit in its obsoleteness? Not even close.
if im looking at this right dill got tied to crafting 10/20/2011
fleet system 3/18/2013
first lock box was 2/9/2012
so again not in game when dill was tied to crafting
system Lord Baal is dead
system Lord Baal is dead
A revamp of the crafting system had better have gotten the same care and attention the revamp of ESD and the Rep system received. Otherwise it is the same stale perfume in a new bottle. The Dilithium requirement was a mistake. A new player can spend Dil on making stuff which is okay but not great or spend Dil on that new ship or Rep gear.
Which one did you go for? Unh hunh. Thought so.
As to wiping out my current crafting abilities, I'm not all that concerned. Since I've no real attachment to anything currently capable of being made. Means I'll have a reason again to search for data samples and other items. Which means I'll revisit parts of STO I've long since forgotten about. Wailing and teeth gnashing in public over a possible reset, which has yet to be seen or proven to exist, is unattractive.
In short, I am looking forward to the new crafting system. Some of my favorite Trek episodes are those where the crew attempts to make something new. Sometimes the results came out very good (e.g. Delta Flyer). I am strongly hoping for a similar positive result here.
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
As for the old system, I hope it burns down like how Bajor should.
now thats just not nice :P you sound like a man that wanted to see the universe burning in flames
system Lord Baal is dead
I remember how crafting worked when STO launched. At the beginning of 2010. Before Season 1-ish when the system got its first remake.
You'd run to one vendor to be able to craft one thing, run to another vendor to craft another thing, other vendors would be locked out until you had crafted enough stuff at the previous ones. The whole system was ridiculous and terrible.
"Multiple schools to level up in" sounds an awful lot like that.
You're being intentionally obtuse. I'm actually under the impression you don't read anything I have to say on the matter, therefore I'll extend to you the same courtesy you extend me.
- The better your doff, the better the crafted item's stats will be.
- If the assignment fails you loose your dilithium and materials.
- But if the assignment crits you get some desirable and very rare stats and procs on your crafted item.
Just my guess
The companions have their own stats for craft, either efficiency (lower the time needed to do a mission/craft) or critical chance for a specific sort of craft/mats mission.
As for the mission itself, it was highly disappointing, since they hyped the "new" crafts, like investigations, archeology, diplomacy... but in the end, it was like our DOFF mission, just a bit of text, and the same mission over and over, with little to no differences between the crafts. They all looked the same, and we never had any investigation or diplomacy to do.
As for STO crafting revamp, I'm almost certain it will be a copy and paste of the NWN craft system. Send doffs to retrieve mats/craft items. With maybe the same rare missions for some unique mats/more resources.
Would it be better to max out crafting and craft a few items NOW before the changes? What's the consensus on that question?
I don't have the ec to purchase an Aegis set on the exchange atm, and wonder if it would be better to craft it now, or wait? Will we be able to update gear (like the updates to certain Mk XI to XII gear) and turn an existing Aegis XI set to an even better XII set? Or will we, like the blog says, have to start from scratch?
Keep in mind also that any time Cryptic says something will be fun, they most likely mean a grind, since a grind is what they somehow think that's what we enjoy nowadays...
CM
I would expect so, but it hardly matters. Currently my crafting toon can't create anything useful with the investment in crafting he did, in the future it will stay the same.
At least in the future, I may be able to make my crafting toon actually craft useful stuff.
That said - There was originally a goal to give people that have mastered the current crafting system to give them some advantage. Maybe something like the old Mark-To-Dilithium conversion?
There is no way to tell, until we know how the transition will work. By then it may or may not be too late.
I wouldn't get too hopeful about anything like that. I doubt that it'd be much of anything at all honestly.
But I would have spent 15 minutes going from 0 to 1,650 for no reason at all. I demand satisfaction.
Oh... you did it on the new system...
Yea yea... Already kicked myself for doing it under the old system several times.
this ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ stuff like this tells you who real vets are
system Lord Baal is dead
Yeah, I remember that grind. And I remember being relieved when they changed it all to the easier "One R&D Level To Rule Them All".
But I didn't bow out of the crafting system strictly because of power creep.
I bowed out when they introduced dilithium costs for gear that was little or no better than the stuff you could earn in other parts of the game. At the time, Cryptic was introducing dilithium costs for more and more stuff. And then came the fleet system.
My dilithium was spoken for and crafting was suddenly no longer all that worthwhile as it consumed valuable resources and time for too little benefit.
And that's why the crafting system needs an overhaul. Hopefully they nail it this time.
Link: How to PM - Twitter @STOMod_Bluegeek