I think the main CENTRAL problem is, this game is too casual. The simplicity level is set way too low to the point where this game suffers from lack of immersion, lack of progression etc.
Now I am aware that there are a few casual gamers in the community. I've seen them say keep the game the way it is, we don't want another eve simulator. But then you have people complaining its too simple, has too few options available. No progression and no actual new things...
How about striking that middle balance between super casual and simulator? Both game types are bad options in themselves, but combine the good elements of both and strike that balance and this game would be a lot better...
Beta Antares Shipyards advanced Starship development project.
CLASSIFIED
i use terms closer to the class functions because, well, a spaceship isnt a cleric. which is yet another example of antiquation and limited spectrum.
Which actually brings up one of my chief beefs with STO...we pretty much do have the spaceships which are clerics. We've got all this nonsense space magic healing garbage that has nothing to do with Star Trek and is ludicrous copypasta spew from fantasy MMOs.
But as far as the "cleric"...like I said, you can take those classic archetypes and take them modern easy enough.
Close-combat/assault trooper...heavy weapons, breach tactics, and the like. Fighter.
Sniper/scout...long range attacks, information gathering. Mage.
Medic...tending to the wounded. Cleric.
You can go all over the place with the RPG Trinity, because it's not the garbage system that the MMO Trinity is in trying to pigeonhole things into neat little packages to keep things simple for the player looking for a shoot 'em up action game instead of an adventure game requiring thought.
Hell, we can look at Star Trek: Gold, Blue, Red. Booyah...there's those classical archetypes.
STO, in typical MMO have to TRIBBLE it up half-assed fashion - what did they give us? Access to all the skills, but then turned around and restricted the abilities? We know that most of the major character in the series/movies were dual-spec or even tri-spec.
But going with the simpler action rather than adventure - shoot 'em up instead of think about it...we didn't get that with STO. We got some half-baked botched attempt at doing both the MMO Trinity and avoiding it at the same time to result in the twisted cluster...ugh, I'm going to smoke again.
I think the main CENTRAL problem is, this game is too casual. The simplicity level is set way too low to the point where this game suffers from lack of immersion, lack of progression etc.
Now I am aware that there are a few casual gamers in the community. I've seen them say keep the game the way it is, we don't want another eve simulator. But then you have people complaining its too simple, has too few options available. No progression and no actual new things...
How about striking that middle balance between super casual and simulator? Both game types are bad options in themselves, but combine the good elements of both and strike that balance and this game would be a lot better...
Cryptic has both Normal and Elite modes on certain types of gameplay. It's right there for them to be able to cater to both sides to a greater degree than they already do...
...can the casual folks that would be running Normal instead of Elite accept that it's not a case that they're being punished for running Normal but rather that the other folks are being rewarded for running Elite?
Inability to have character advancement, or a direct increase in character power, is the original complaint. Side upgrade gimmicks are not direct increases in character power and hold very little interest.
Why are upgrades more interesting? "OH, look, a bigger number. How exciting!"
Sidegrades means - I can do X, or I can do Y. Two different modes of play. More choices, content can be played actually differently, instead of the same.
Sidegrades are great. Upgrades are boring.
But sidegrades demand balance. Otherwise, some sidegrades are upgrades and some sidegrades are downgrades, and you of course only take the upgrades.
Star Trek Online Advancement: You start with lowbie gear, you end with Lobi gear.
Fighter, Mage, Cleric...that's the RPG Trinity. And there are so many potential variants from those three archetypes. You can even leave the "magic"/"fantasy" angle behind and still have them.
Attacker, Defender, Healer? Sounds like you're talking 4th ed. D&D after it got the MMO makeover...
Except 4th Edition has also the Controller.
Shocking... There is this game that supposedly turned D&D into a pen & paper MMO, but it doesn't use the trinity.
Star Trek Online Advancement: You start with lowbie gear, you end with Lobi gear.
This morning I logged in and quickly sent my doffs off on a variety of missions on my toons to gain resources to continue advancing the fleet starbase. I tossed marks into the projects, checked the provision levels, and then pondered actually playing the game for a bit. Instead I logged off to play something else for a bit.
Know the feeling .
I hate to agree with Geko, but I do agree with Geko
On what exactly ?
Return the hourly event calendar. Remove some of the content from STO and have it show up in the rotation with increased rewards.
Agreed about the calendar .
The bonus hours kept my interest not just for selfish reasons , but also because the idea that if I stayed ingame a bit more I could help kick off one more darn Starbase project .
Now that specific motivation seems to have disappeared ... , and I only play as much as I feel like it ... which is less and less .
Their really needs to be a few devs who aren't working on the next big release who are available to polish and tweak things.
I'd also like the "chance at a bonus reward" returned ... , not only to the STF's (BNP's) , but expanded to all group content .
I think it would function as a nice incentive to get players to think "ok , just one more time..." .
Old STF's . Back . Plz .
(no , not instead of the new versions , but the new versions could use a nightmare mode as well -- the space parts I mean)
And lastly , I don't agree that content needs to be taken out .
The UI can be reworked to feature Ground / Space missions and shorten the long list of queues .
with the lists of numbers iv seen you post in the pvp forums, you couldnt figure out the hows and whys that would make 'threat' managment essential to mmo's?
That's part of the infestation that has come about because of the MMO Trinity, though. So many things have been perverted to suit it.
If one takes a look at how PvP plays out - is there the tank? Oh, there's going to be a certain level of tank each player is going to run...but a tank? No, not in the least. There's basically going to be three elements: DPS, Heals, and CC/Support.
Now imagine if PvE worked like that, eh?
I don't PvP because I'm all that competitive. I PvP because it's the closest thing to what PnP RPG PvE was like for me back in the day.
Imagine if STO didn't have all the MMO Trinity nonsense, eh? There was no artificial threat for tanks. There were no glass cannons. There was no space magic healing. Well, dayum - doesn't that sound like all the series and movies we watched rather than some fantasy version of a generic space MMO?
We wouldn't have mobs doing the damage they do, the health they do, we wouldn't have all the trash mobs leading up to the boss mobs, we wouldn't have any of that nonsense...it's all tied to the infection that is the MMO Trinity.
Believe bareel was talking about there being too much PvE. As far as the comments about there being too many PvE queues. So with all those queues, rather than deciding to do something - some folks just decide to go do something else...
Still think they should group some of the content, personally. Rather than there being Cure, Hive, Infected, and Khitomer - there should be Task Force Omega and it drops you randomly into one of the four. The same with the other queues along those lines. If folks want to run something specifically, they could always private queue for it. But it would reduce the number of queues sitting out there...course, it would require some balance tweaks on duration/effort/reward.
your pretty much talking about the "ship stats by ship volume thing" i bring up.
They've basically admitted that the "ship avatars" have little to do with the ship stats. Heck, shuttles/fighters are oversized so they can be seen. They decided it would be a good idea to try to equate the Galaxy, Defiant, and Intrepid.
Man, this thread is massively depressing...I usually try not to think about all of this. Trying to focus on meaningless math here and there - just flying around going wheeeeee...
This morning I logged in and quickly sent my doffs off on a variety of missions on my toons to gain resources to continue advancing the fleet starbase. I tossed marks into the projects, checked the provision levels, and then pondered actually playing the game for a bit. Instead I logged off to play something else for a bit.
It is now evening and I have a bit of time to play a game. I consider logging in to sto, maybe run an STF, at the very least turn in more contraband perhaps. But instead I am writing this post as I log into another game. And this is not the first time. But why, am I just burned out on STO? Nope, the gameplay is still enjoyable to me but it is seriously lacking something at the moment.
Lack of character progression
I have no method to truly advance my characters. Season 9 was a massive disappointment for me with the reputation revamp because it removed the only thing I was excited for, new passive reputation traits. Side upgrades get old after awhile. I have no reason to care about increasing my performance against a specific enemy type. And why would I, they offer me nothing I cannot get from other content nor will a marginal increase in performance in a specific scenario be worth the bother of getting the gear, then constantly switching it when I go to other content.
You will notice the only thing I bother to do anymore is directly related to an advancement system, the fleet. I want to actually progress my characters, not just get different tricks. That's what alts are for. Games like Diablo 3 offer paragon levels, EQ offered an AA system, and Marvel Heroes just released their own omega system for a reason. A core part of an RPG is progression and those systems allow the player to continue slowly progressing their character even between content releases.
1000 Rock today, or 2,225 tomorrow
Lets say you have a mark box with 100 marks inside it. If you open it today and convert it to purple rock you will get 1,000. If you wait to open the box during a bonus mark event you will get 1,500 marks which you could then turn into 1,500 purple rock. Or if you then hold on to those marks until a bonus dilithium event it will become 2,250 purple rock.
So I stockpile things to turn into other things to stockpile for no actual purpose aside from advancing the fleet starbase. Incentive is lowered when I am merely stockpiling, incentive is destroyed when I am merely stockpiling to wait to stockpile.
The replacement of the daily event calendar with the weekend events has definitely made it so I won't wait a few hours for the bonus mark hour until I bother playing some content. I now wait months. Desirable rewards, carrots, etc are another core element of an RPG.
Too many options
Their are so many things I could do in STO that I don't want to do any of them. I'm after purple rock, do I feel like doing another ISE, perhaps crystalline entity, nah I should goto a battlezone. Meh, why bother.
I hate to agree with Geko, but I do agree with Geko.
Lack of consumer confidence in Cryptic
This deserves it's own thread honestly. But after the so called revamp of the galaxy and the roll out of the new fleet patrol escort that isn't a revamp of the old fleet patrol escort I was extremely disappointed. When other games I have played revamp older characters (LoL, MH, Warframe, etc) they actually revamp them and then don't turn around and expect people to repurchase them.
The lack of small tweaks to various powers, equipment, and abilities in the game to increase diversity and promote balance. The inability of Cryptic to go the extra mile, unique bridge on risan ships that allows swimwear for example, makes many of the releases fall short. Or the lack of displayed cool-downs for bonus mark boxes.
Loadouts are another perfect example. You have the capability to make content that really requires teamwork and various roles to complete that could be accomplished by PuGs. Imagine the following scenario.. You join a Nightmare Starbase Defense mission with your escort. During the briefing you are informed you will be facing off against Voth. You know the voth have 3 different agro groups, one set always hits the starbase hard with primarily kinetic, another will focus on anyone healing the starbase then the starbase, and the third group is standard agro mechanics. You go to swap to your heal boat cruiser when a fellow team-mate announces he has the starbase support covered with his oddy packing double extend shields (doffed) and an ET3 at global cooldown. Instead you switch out to your Nebula drain build. The Voth heavy hitters can be completely shut down with enough power drain plus their frigates with their annoying photonic cloak only have 15 base AUX power and a TR will help with them. Plus you have Photonic Shockwave at which will strip their annoying shield immune ability. And ST is nice. The rest of the team sticks to their heavy DPS ships.
Of course that will never happen. The loadout system is bugged not to mention extremely limited by not effecting traits and requiring a large number of different bridge officers to use effectively. Not to mention the complete lack of play-counterplay in STO monster design.
Half assed is the term I would use to describe far too many aspects of STO.
Lastly stop being such a slave to your F2P model. Systems are revamped primarily to create a new shiney for lockboxes (trait/kit) it seems. In the end I understand you need to make money but at the same time it would be nice to see a few things released where I cannot immediately spot how it will directly increase lockbox sales. Player retention and/or satisfaction are good enough reasons for some content.
Suggestions
Create an advancement system at max level that effects all characters similar to the Paragon levels of Diablo 3. It will help player retention between content releases.
Return the hourly event calendar. Remove some of the content from STO and have it show up in the rotation with increased rewards.
Their really needs to be a few devs who aren't working on the next big release who are available to polish and tweak things.
Final Thought
STO content is designed to be played again and again. For that model to work the content needs to be an enjoyable experience in itself and offer a compelling reward for continued play. Stockpiling tokens to acquire gimmicks is getting old.
the answer is actually yes, when you feel no great need to play the game and you get the idea everything else you do is more stimulating to your mental thinking, then it is burn out. gameplay is besides the point, if there is no interest because you wore it out a while back, a moments pleasure in game destroying ships will return to being left wondering "what the hell am i doing here?!!" further to the point is your wall of death text, tl;dr but basically you want changes so you got something new to try out, again more stimulation for your mental thinking... however, that will only last a week at most before your back to square one wondering whats next.
your likely to get a suggestion of taking a time out, play other stuff and then come back is what you may get recommended, but from my end, i have done these enough times and feel nothing for the game, such as it is i want to get the pearls for the cruiser but sto isnt on the list of things to do. i have already given up planetside 2 the other day because it was just getting plain annoying rather then burn out and ive been trying out champions online recently to see what was left of the game, indeed some stuff has changed and i need to run up the level progression again and end content to find out what has changed. the last time i logged onto that previously since the other day was well over 720 days ago according to character last use data in the selection screen. so it could take you that long to find your way back to sto if you feel the need for it...
T6 Miranda Hero Ship FTW. Been around since Dec 2010 on STO and bought LTS in Apr 2013 for STO.
ive been trying out champions online recently to see what was left of the game...
That's probably what I'm missing. I used to have it installed - I would do little more than log into it for a few hours every now and again just to punch things in the face, lol. Then I'd come back to STO feeling better...
there isnt any end game content in this game just grind content thats the problem...There isnt anything to do once you have leveled and gered up
Its clear there are no old gamemasrers at cryptic or they are not listened too
character progression is important and should always be in motion this is also possibe without making characters so powerful that they upset balence but you must have end game content that is not combat relted to do this....something more than pew pew
The trinity is a joke and should be removed first thing . It has no place in a star trek mmo
cross healing should be removed .......ships are repired with engineers damage control teams and repair parts not magic beams
you must have end game content like colonization ....thats where you use the ( loot ) resources gathered in the game
so much can be done with colonization ..........its massive
character progression and skills is also massive if done correctly.......the current sustem is really trash it gives up too much too quickly and focuses only on one goal damage..........the reson its this wy is because there isnt any end game content to mix it up.
battle is a small part of star trek but in this game its the only part..thats one of its worst problems
player driven economy....this is also so massive along with crafting and resource gathering ...first 2 years SWG did this so well
balencing vet players and new players is also easy to do its already been done in the battle tech board game ....use its system the BPV system works really well ( Battle point value )
I think we will get a new lockbox shiney tho...................................
Jellico....Engineer ground.....Da'val Romulan space Sci
Saphire.. Science ground......Ko'el Romulan space Tac
Leva........Tactical ground.....Koj Romulan space Eng
JJ-Verse will never be Canon or considered Lore...It will always be JJ-Verse
I know these were in reply to skollulfr...but anyway...
You resolve the issue of folks collecting and hoarding such items by putting expiration dates on them. They only last so long and then they're gone. Use them or lose them. Problem resolved...
That would be a workable solution. I know it seems weird what I am saying but yes, I want the rewards for my play style to be nerfed.
If I read your loadout suggestion there, you were suggesting that folks could do whatever they wanted once a mission had already started? Basically trying to push this even more away from Star Trek and toward some generic spaceship shoot 'em up game?
And well, speaking of - there's this...
Only during the one minute briefing period before the match begins. Think of it as 'champion select' phase of other games. As for it being less Star Trek and generic spaceship shoot 'em up game, uh, ahem, the pve queues mostly already are.
This still irks the Hell out of me. It's not the RPG Trinity that's an issue. It's the MMO Trinity that's an issue. The RPG Trinity exists without issue for all sorts of content creation - it's based on typical archetypes from thousands of years of literature and works very well. The MMO Trinity on the other hand is a complete bastardization of that - TRIBBLE that's ruined so many games and left them with only pale possibilities. The MMO Trinity has created some of the most absurd logic bombs...it's mind boggling the manner in which folks consume it without a second thought...meh. The basic archetypes, the RPG Trinity, is nothing like the garbage that they started tossing around with EQ and so many folks cloned afterward...
And hrmm, saw this as I was previewing this...
EQ originally lacked what we now think of as a DPS role, had the CC and puller role as well. But I agree with you I have played far too many systems both in electronic form and PnP form to consider standard tank/dps/healer tank n spank design enjoyable and it is not at all what I wish loadouts could bring us.
I just can't fathom that. I mean, I get what you're saying...but that would be as enjoyable as watching the second hand on a clock tick away for no other purpose than it is ticking. Not that it's a case of getting closer to something - not that it means something is almost over - that it has no meaning outside of it simply advancing.
Keep in mind that is the secondary reason for playing. The primary one is the actual gameplay is enjoyable but that is simply not enough on it's own in this era of entertainment options.
It's kind of funny, cause something sarcasmdetector said in another thread got me thinking. I've got my thread there of Average builds...yaddayadda...where I believe I made a comment about any min/max that was done was done subconsciously. sarcasm said in another thread that folks basically picking items for bonuses were basically doing min/max. Sure, there was the debate with rinkster about the level of min/max - what folks generally think of, etc, etc, etc...
...but it got me thinking about the builds I fly, and if I was actually to be honest with myself about them. They are absolutely a form of min/max. Not at the minimal level or maximum levels as suggested in the discussion in that thread, but in a form that suits my ability to have fun. I'm doing min/max mediocrity...builds that do at least a certain amount of damage, have a certain amount of survivability - builds that do not have too much damage, etc, etc, etc. I'm aiming for the middle where I can have some casual fun.
Nothing is too much of a challenge - nothing is so little of a challenge. Nothing that's going to leave me tired or frustrated - nothing that's going to leave me bored to tears.
And on top of that, I'm rolling with eight toons with eight different playstyles...so in bouncing around with those, it further helps me avoid ending up in the doldrums of tedium that could easily come about.
I've created my own challenge...to keep myself entertained.
So...yeah, I'd be one of the challenge folks. Not leet by any stretch of the imagination, but a challenge kind of person.
But as I said, where you feel the need to see that 100 go to 101...I believe that happens, without needing some external measurement of it. After all, time passes whether there's a clock there or not.
To be blunt, you seek and value self mastery and personal skill improvement from gaming. I have absolutely no interest in that but I do understand it.
I have been a DM for far too many years for too many people. That is where I fill that same exact self mastery as I get ever so slightly better at it after every single session. It has also taught me that every single player sits down and pulls out their dice seeking something slightly different from the game.
One player simply enjoys the social experience and sense of comradery the game provides. When intra party conflict rears it's ugly head he enjoys the game less, when they combine abilities to overcome a challenge he enjoys the game even more.
Another enjoys the challenge of combat. Even if the challenge is not real my ability to create the illusion of a tough fight the party over comes he is ecstatic. When the setting requires the party to flee a bit he enjoys the game far less.
And so on and so on. We all seek to fill some form of desire in our gaming. That is why RPGs have progression. That is why guild/fleet/social bond creating mechanics exist in MMOs, or why MMOs even exist. It is why proper match making is required for most to enjoy PvP, and bad match making is required for others to enjoy PvP.
But it all goes back to the sunk cost fallacy for why I still play, and I would wager a few others who took a cold hard look at it are the same.
But it all goes back to the sunk cost fallacy for why I still play, and I would wager a few others who took a cold hard look at it are the same.
That's a reason that I played Blizzard's ball of fun so long, ahem. From beta through a week after Catalyst...heavy time investment - more toons than here by a long shot. Leading up to Catalyst, I knew the game was doomed for me. I was arguing with folks about it - it wasn't pretty. Catalyst dropped, I picked it up - dorked around - had a toon to 85 by the weekend...and...had cancelled my account before the weekend was out. Folks loved it, it was the straw I needed to break the camel's back and get me out of there.
That's a reason that I played EVE so long. No, I only started in early 2005 with that one rather than with beta or anything like that. With some changes CCP made, with some comments the devs made on the forums in reply to things said, I found the /ragequit method. Over five years worth of stuff...I just got rid of it all. Not by deleting the toon - no EVE had that pesky had to wait a couple of days for that - I went through everything piece by piece and then mailed the ISK to a random player I'd met.
With STO...tada...I had the "no toon lasts more than a month or two" - there would be no more sticking to a game because of what I had invested in it. And prior to S7, no toon did. Most were rerolled every 2-3 weeks. At the end of last year, I had those feelings that I was sticking around for the same wrong reasons again. I deleted 8 of my 9 toons. Six months later, I'm still here...playing the game as casually and without what I consider any sort of investment as possible.
It's entertainment. Did you enjoy the time spent? Yes? Can't take that away. No longer enjoying the time spent? No? Then it's time to walk away. Doesn't mean it has to be a permanent walk away...could just mean it's time to do something else. Heck, I mentioned two games up there - I rarely played any MMOs simultaneously. I had a rotation of around 4 MMOs that I played - might play 1-3 months of one, then play another, then play another. It kept me from getting too caught up in what I disliked about the games...let me come back somewhat fresh to what I did like.
I'm pretty sure PWE understands that concept...thus why there's been that big push with Arc. "We understand that you'll need a break from the game from time to time, here's some other games you might enjoy and you'll always have this game to come back to from the same launcher!"
I can play for pretty long periods of time, without thinking too much about what I'm doing - but obviously there's a seething rage lurking beneath the surface, things I just hate going on with STO - there's been a bunch of threads lately from folks wanting things that I don't like. I guess this was another that came at the wrong time/right time...throw in the discussion about the MMO/RPG Trinities...and boom. My apologies for that...
But it's something that I agree with to a point but feel has been ruined in MMOs. One of the things I liked about MMOs was that they weren't the $60 done in a weekend sort of game. Heh, that really started to drive me crazy. Even games that just lasted a week or so...just ticked me off. I much preferred paying that for a box and tossing my $10-15 at a company month after month for years on end to have that persistent world where I could enjoy the journey...
These days, it's complaints about how long leveling takes - getting to endgame as fast as possible - then complaining there's nothing to do and no progress.
There was a shift back around 2004-2005 as home broadband use increased...up to the point we're at now, where the need for instant gratification has reached a point where even as we get rewards faster and faster, we feel less rewarded.
Makes me think of lyrics from a song...Mr. Brownstone by Guns 'n Roses.
So in a game with no vertical content progression, asking for even more vertical character progression...meh.
I just logged in to play. Did a quick DOFF rundown for all 3 characters. Checked all the STF's and did the ISE(Borg one) and that's it. Seeminly after Season 9 Nerf Bat a lot of players been leaving and the three fleets I'm in are completely in stand still. I done most of the STF's a 100 hundred times plus so no fun or challenge. As the recent ISE, the group trashed the Borgs in 4 mins.
I have three characters, 3 all Reps is at 5 and tiers almost all will hit tier 4(This week). The other three Tier 5. I configuration all my ships with Fleer purple shiny Tier XII gear and shiny purple DOFF's.
So, me and another fleet mate was joking about the new releases. We are happey with the Season 8 release - Legacy of Romulus.y is at
So we came up with it.
Season 8 - Romulan release (Awesome)
Season 9 - Release Lagfest
Season 9-9.5 - Release Nerf Bat with a Cap
Season 9.5 - Release Repackage Bat. Cryptic will make it that you have to re-buy ships you already brought. New ships with fused weapons.
If someone does the Doff missions, they will realize some of the mission requires resources and DOFF's to make gear. All Cryptic is doing is now giving it a shiny new UI and adding more options of gear. Noted, since to get minerals and stuff, you have to explore. Oh. The exploration aspect is laughable. Although it's Star Trek Online, and Exploration should be a major part of the game. Yes. Star Trek = Exploration + any other fighting in the process
Still there is no ETA on the secondary deflectors, which they announced a while ago. Then this new blog note #24 pretty much says nothing.
It's entertainment. Did you enjoy the time spent? Yes? Can't take that away. No longer enjoying the time spent? No? Then it's time to walk away. Doesn't mean it has to be a permanent walk away...could just mean it's time to do something else. Heck, I mentioned two games up there - I rarely played any MMOs simultaneously. I had a rotation of around 4 MMOs that I played - might play 1-3 months of one, then play another, then play another. It kept me from getting too caught up in what I disliked about the games...let me come back somewhat fresh to what I did like.
That sounds a bit familiar. For a long time, I played STO intensively. Then I started playing less. PvP provided me a surprising amount of fun, but the fun lessened the more I understood the game and all the balance issues - issues that were only added on with new additions.
So I basically stopped playing. It wasn't even a concious choice. I just stopped coming back and doing other stuff.
Then, a few months ago, I came back, started playing again, and was having fun "grinding" my reputations, playing content that was added in the mean time. I wouldn't be surprised if I stopped playing soon, too, and focus on something else again, and come back again eventually.
It's okay. And you're probably right this is a good reason why PWE created Arc. It encourages people to try others of their games when they get tired of the current one.
Star Trek Online Advancement: You start with lowbie gear, you end with Lobi gear.
I'm in the same boat of just logging on to do doff missions, refine my dilithium and log off. If the fleet is making some runs I might stick around, but other than that, my playtime may as well be down to zero.
The hate I feel for the MMO Triniity is just so...so freaking overwhelming. I remember the first time I played a MMO that had it, instead of MMOs that were more like PnP RPGs. The whole "why the Hell would that NPC focus on that guy and ignore the rest?" thing...and...meh, it just massively built up over the years - game after game that dd that. I literally just start seeing red with it.
A villain/enemy/etc - that is a threat to the world...isn't going to be that stupid.
It just...it just blows my mind. I've lost track of how many cigarettes I've smoked because of having to think of the MMO Trinity in this thread.
It's not excuse for anything I've said...and maybe I'm looking for a forced vacation. Hell, maybe I'm looking for an excuse to uninstall.
The combination of the MMO Trinity and the Monster Farm...it's usually too much for me to handle, I go off the deep end. It makes me question what I'm doing with a game - why I'm bothering - I start to think about the time I've spent playing - I get ticked off - I get pissed off - and - I tend to end up having a meltdown/breakdown...
Well I do hear you on the stupidity of the MMO Trinity. It is the deformed child of the classic system made to try and fit a much more simplistic game model that is less about problem solving and fully utilizing your party and more about dishing out the most damage possible while staying alive...
I do feel the pain of the dislogic of it all because in PvP for instance a big tanky cruiser is the last thing I am going to bother wasting my time with when the Science ships and Escorts are squishier and far more important. Yet with the right skills the same Cruiser that can barely kill a single probe in Khitomer may be able to take aggro over the Science ships and Escorts which is stupid.
What is worse though is that a LOT of MMO creators take this problem and make it WORSE; which is quite the feat. They make the Healer and the Damage Dealer take all sorts of aggro making the job of the tank so much harder. It begs the question "Why can't the Damage Dealer also be the one who tanks?". If you are going to make the enemy largely respond to heals and damage then do not gimp your Tank's ability to deal damage. That is just even more idiotic.
Going back to good ol' PnP for a moment: Your Warrior is both Tank AND Damage Dealer. It is his sole purpose to kill the big scary physical threat that get in your way. Now in that system killing everything in sight is not the goal nor the main focus but there will be obstacles of that nature to overcome. The Mage and or Cleric should not take Aggro because the Warrior would be right up in the face of his foe making himself impossible to ignore. Are you going to attack the guy in the white robes over there who is not doing anything to you or the guy right infront of you trying to rip you a few new ones with his weapons?
So yeah I feel you VD, I really do. I am glad STO offers us the ability to at least TRIBBLE up the MMO trinity via specialization, ship vs. captain, and various tactics. However, it is a shame it cannot provide more of the classic mechanics, rich problem solving, and non-pure damage dishing focus.
A nice example of one of STO's better attempts is in Temporal Ambassador where you must choose which of your provided NPC's should do what task. Each is better at certain tasks and can do them more quickly. THAT is a lot more like the old style. It is a very limited inclusion but at least it is a valid attempt. Hint Hint Cryptic.
I kind of have to agree with the OP. Take Risa for example... I'm grinding all these lolunhat favors in order to get swimwear which I can only use on Risa. But what else is there to do on Risa aside from grinding lolunhat favors? Same thing with Dyson and Undine reps. Don't get me wrong... I enjoy all these things, but eventually I get burned out. I think this game will really take off if they really make foundry robust foundry and link it to exploration. Let the fans really be able to tell interesting stories in a cohesive and integrated manner. It would be Something new other than repeatable content.
Comments
Now I am aware that there are a few casual gamers in the community. I've seen them say keep the game the way it is, we don't want another eve simulator. But then you have people complaining its too simple, has too few options available. No progression and no actual new things...
How about striking that middle balance between super casual and simulator? Both game types are bad options in themselves, but combine the good elements of both and strike that balance and this game would be a lot better...
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Which actually brings up one of my chief beefs with STO...we pretty much do have the spaceships which are clerics. We've got all this nonsense space magic healing garbage that has nothing to do with Star Trek and is ludicrous copypasta spew from fantasy MMOs.
But as far as the "cleric"...like I said, you can take those classic archetypes and take them modern easy enough.
Close-combat/assault trooper...heavy weapons, breach tactics, and the like. Fighter.
Sniper/scout...long range attacks, information gathering. Mage.
Medic...tending to the wounded. Cleric.
You can go all over the place with the RPG Trinity, because it's not the garbage system that the MMO Trinity is in trying to pigeonhole things into neat little packages to keep things simple for the player looking for a shoot 'em up action game instead of an adventure game requiring thought.
Hell, we can look at Star Trek: Gold, Blue, Red. Booyah...there's those classical archetypes.
STO, in typical MMO have to TRIBBLE it up half-assed fashion - what did they give us? Access to all the skills, but then turned around and restricted the abilities? We know that most of the major character in the series/movies were dual-spec or even tri-spec.
But going with the simpler action rather than adventure - shoot 'em up instead of think about it...we didn't get that with STO. We got some half-baked botched attempt at doing both the MMO Trinity and avoiding it at the same time to result in the twisted cluster...ugh, I'm going to smoke again.
Cryptic has both Normal and Elite modes on certain types of gameplay. It's right there for them to be able to cater to both sides to a greater degree than they already do...
...can the casual folks that would be running Normal instead of Elite accept that it's not a case that they're being punished for running Normal but rather that the other folks are being rewarded for running Elite?
Sidegrades means - I can do X, or I can do Y. Two different modes of play. More choices, content can be played actually differently, instead of the same.
Sidegrades are great. Upgrades are boring.
But sidegrades demand balance. Otherwise, some sidegrades are upgrades and some sidegrades are downgrades, and you of course only take the upgrades.
Except 4th Edition has also the Controller.
Shocking... There is this game that supposedly turned D&D into a pen & paper MMO, but it doesn't use the trinity.
Know the feeling .
On what exactly ?
Agreed about the calendar .
The bonus hours kept my interest not just for selfish reasons , but also because the idea that if I stayed ingame a bit more I could help kick off one more darn Starbase project .
Now that specific motivation seems to have disappeared ... , and I only play as much as I feel like it ... which is less and less .
Their really needs to be a few devs who aren't working on the next big release who are available to polish and tweak things.
I'd also like the "chance at a bonus reward" returned ... , not only to the STF's (BNP's) , but expanded to all group content .
I think it would function as a nice incentive to get players to think "ok , just one more time..." .
Old STF's . Back . Plz .
(no , not instead of the new versions , but the new versions could use a nightmare mode as well -- the space parts I mean)
And lastly , I don't agree that content needs to be taken out .
The UI can be reworked to feature Ground / Space missions and shorten the long list of queues .
That's part of the infestation that has come about because of the MMO Trinity, though. So many things have been perverted to suit it.
If one takes a look at how PvP plays out - is there the tank? Oh, there's going to be a certain level of tank each player is going to run...but a tank? No, not in the least. There's basically going to be three elements: DPS, Heals, and CC/Support.
Now imagine if PvE worked like that, eh?
I don't PvP because I'm all that competitive. I PvP because it's the closest thing to what PnP RPG PvE was like for me back in the day.
Imagine if STO didn't have all the MMO Trinity nonsense, eh? There was no artificial threat for tanks. There were no glass cannons. There was no space magic healing. Well, dayum - doesn't that sound like all the series and movies we watched rather than some fantasy version of a generic space MMO?
We wouldn't have mobs doing the damage they do, the health they do, we wouldn't have all the trash mobs leading up to the boss mobs, we wouldn't have any of that nonsense...it's all tied to the infection that is the MMO Trinity.
Believe bareel was talking about there being too much PvE. As far as the comments about there being too many PvE queues. So with all those queues, rather than deciding to do something - some folks just decide to go do something else...
Still think they should group some of the content, personally. Rather than there being Cure, Hive, Infected, and Khitomer - there should be Task Force Omega and it drops you randomly into one of the four. The same with the other queues along those lines. If folks want to run something specifically, they could always private queue for it. But it would reduce the number of queues sitting out there...course, it would require some balance tweaks on duration/effort/reward.
Probably because I had played PnP RPGs for 17 years before playing my first MMO...and I played my first MMO almost 17 years ago.
They've basically admitted that the "ship avatars" have little to do with the ship stats. Heck, shuttles/fighters are oversized so they can be seen. They decided it would be a good idea to try to equate the Galaxy, Defiant, and Intrepid.
Man, this thread is massively depressing...I usually try not to think about all of this. Trying to focus on meaningless math here and there - just flying around going wheeeeee...
But not all got the portrait to back it up! I salute such complete devotion to the lower spectrum of feelery!
Yeah, I'm in that love boat too. If this is not the low point, then it is time to get some light down here...
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the answer is actually yes, when you feel no great need to play the game and you get the idea everything else you do is more stimulating to your mental thinking, then it is burn out. gameplay is besides the point, if there is no interest because you wore it out a while back, a moments pleasure in game destroying ships will return to being left wondering "what the hell am i doing here?!!" further to the point is your wall of death text, tl;dr but basically you want changes so you got something new to try out, again more stimulation for your mental thinking... however, that will only last a week at most before your back to square one wondering whats next.
your likely to get a suggestion of taking a time out, play other stuff and then come back is what you may get recommended, but from my end, i have done these enough times and feel nothing for the game, such as it is i want to get the pearls for the cruiser but sto isnt on the list of things to do. i have already given up planetside 2 the other day because it was just getting plain annoying rather then burn out and ive been trying out champions online recently to see what was left of the game, indeed some stuff has changed and i need to run up the level progression again and end content to find out what has changed. the last time i logged onto that previously since the other day was well over 720 days ago according to character last use data in the selection screen. so it could take you that long to find your way back to sto if you feel the need for it...
Been around since Dec 2010 on STO and bought LTS in Apr 2013 for STO.
That's probably what I'm missing. I used to have it installed - I would do little more than log into it for a few hours every now and again just to punch things in the face, lol. Then I'd come back to STO feeling better...
there isnt any end game content in this game just grind content thats the problem...There isnt anything to do once you have leveled and gered up
Its clear there are no old gamemasrers at cryptic or they are not listened too
character progression is important and should always be in motion this is also possibe without making characters so powerful that they upset balence but you must have end game content that is not combat relted to do this....something more than pew pew
The trinity is a joke and should be removed first thing . It has no place in a star trek mmo
cross healing should be removed .......ships are repired with engineers damage control teams and repair parts not magic beams
you must have end game content like colonization ....thats where you use the ( loot ) resources gathered in the game
so much can be done with colonization ..........its massive
character progression and skills is also massive if done correctly.......the current sustem is really trash it gives up too much too quickly and focuses only on one goal damage..........the reson its this wy is because there isnt any end game content to mix it up.
battle is a small part of star trek but in this game its the only part..thats one of its worst problems
player driven economy....this is also so massive along with crafting and resource gathering ...first 2 years SWG did this so well
balencing vet players and new players is also easy to do its already been done in the battle tech board game ....use its system the BPV system works really well ( Battle point value )
I think we will get a new lockbox shiney tho...................................
Saphire.. Science ground......Ko'el Romulan space Tac
Leva........Tactical ground.....Koj Romulan space Eng
JJ-Verse will never be Canon or considered Lore...It will always be JJ-Verse
If you quit no one cares, you could simply just go away but no, you had to open a topic for the problems you have.
Move along.
That would be a workable solution. I know it seems weird what I am saying but yes, I want the rewards for my play style to be nerfed.
Only during the one minute briefing period before the match begins. Think of it as 'champion select' phase of other games. As for it being less Star Trek and generic spaceship shoot 'em up game, uh, ahem, the pve queues mostly already are.
EQ originally lacked what we now think of as a DPS role, had the CC and puller role as well. But I agree with you I have played far too many systems both in electronic form and PnP form to consider standard tank/dps/healer tank n spank design enjoyable and it is not at all what I wish loadouts could bring us.
Keep in mind that is the secondary reason for playing. The primary one is the actual gameplay is enjoyable but that is simply not enough on it's own in this era of entertainment options.
To be blunt, you seek and value self mastery and personal skill improvement from gaming. I have absolutely no interest in that but I do understand it.
I have been a DM for far too many years for too many people. That is where I fill that same exact self mastery as I get ever so slightly better at it after every single session. It has also taught me that every single player sits down and pulls out their dice seeking something slightly different from the game.
One player simply enjoys the social experience and sense of comradery the game provides. When intra party conflict rears it's ugly head he enjoys the game less, when they combine abilities to overcome a challenge he enjoys the game even more.
Another enjoys the challenge of combat. Even if the challenge is not real my ability to create the illusion of a tough fight the party over comes he is ecstatic. When the setting requires the party to flee a bit he enjoys the game far less.
And so on and so on. We all seek to fill some form of desire in our gaming. That is why RPGs have progression. That is why guild/fleet/social bond creating mechanics exist in MMOs, or why MMOs even exist. It is why proper match making is required for most to enjoy PvP, and bad match making is required for others to enjoy PvP.
But it all goes back to the sunk cost fallacy for why I still play, and I would wager a few others who took a cold hard look at it are the same.
That's a reason that I played Blizzard's ball of fun so long, ahem. From beta through a week after Catalyst...heavy time investment - more toons than here by a long shot. Leading up to Catalyst, I knew the game was doomed for me. I was arguing with folks about it - it wasn't pretty. Catalyst dropped, I picked it up - dorked around - had a toon to 85 by the weekend...and...had cancelled my account before the weekend was out. Folks loved it, it was the straw I needed to break the camel's back and get me out of there.
That's a reason that I played EVE so long. No, I only started in early 2005 with that one rather than with beta or anything like that. With some changes CCP made, with some comments the devs made on the forums in reply to things said, I found the /ragequit method. Over five years worth of stuff...I just got rid of it all. Not by deleting the toon - no EVE had that pesky had to wait a couple of days for that - I went through everything piece by piece and then mailed the ISK to a random player I'd met.
With STO...tada...I had the "no toon lasts more than a month or two" - there would be no more sticking to a game because of what I had invested in it. And prior to S7, no toon did. Most were rerolled every 2-3 weeks. At the end of last year, I had those feelings that I was sticking around for the same wrong reasons again. I deleted 8 of my 9 toons. Six months later, I'm still here...playing the game as casually and without what I consider any sort of investment as possible.
It's entertainment. Did you enjoy the time spent? Yes? Can't take that away. No longer enjoying the time spent? No? Then it's time to walk away. Doesn't mean it has to be a permanent walk away...could just mean it's time to do something else. Heck, I mentioned two games up there - I rarely played any MMOs simultaneously. I had a rotation of around 4 MMOs that I played - might play 1-3 months of one, then play another, then play another. It kept me from getting too caught up in what I disliked about the games...let me come back somewhat fresh to what I did like.
I'm pretty sure PWE understands that concept...thus why there's been that big push with Arc. "We understand that you'll need a break from the game from time to time, here's some other games you might enjoy and you'll always have this game to come back to from the same launcher!"
I can play for pretty long periods of time, without thinking too much about what I'm doing - but obviously there's a seething rage lurking beneath the surface, things I just hate going on with STO - there's been a bunch of threads lately from folks wanting things that I don't like. I guess this was another that came at the wrong time/right time...throw in the discussion about the MMO/RPG Trinities...and boom. My apologies for that...
But it's something that I agree with to a point but feel has been ruined in MMOs. One of the things I liked about MMOs was that they weren't the $60 done in a weekend sort of game. Heh, that really started to drive me crazy. Even games that just lasted a week or so...just ticked me off. I much preferred paying that for a box and tossing my $10-15 at a company month after month for years on end to have that persistent world where I could enjoy the journey...
These days, it's complaints about how long leveling takes - getting to endgame as fast as possible - then complaining there's nothing to do and no progress.
There was a shift back around 2004-2005 as home broadband use increased...up to the point we're at now, where the need for instant gratification has reached a point where even as we get rewards faster and faster, we feel less rewarded.
Makes me think of lyrics from a song...Mr. Brownstone by Guns 'n Roses.
So in a game with no vertical content progression, asking for even more vertical character progression...meh.
I just logged in to play. Did a quick DOFF rundown for all 3 characters. Checked all the STF's and did the ISE(Borg one) and that's it. Seeminly after Season 9 Nerf Bat a lot of players been leaving and the three fleets I'm in are completely in stand still. I done most of the STF's a 100 hundred times plus so no fun or challenge. As the recent ISE, the group trashed the Borgs in 4 mins.
I have three characters, 3 all Reps is at 5 and tiers almost all will hit tier 4(This week). The other three Tier 5. I configuration all my ships with Fleer purple shiny Tier XII gear and shiny purple DOFF's.
So, me and another fleet mate was joking about the new releases. We are happey with the Season 8 release - Legacy of Romulus.y is at
So we came up with it.
Season 8 - Romulan release (Awesome)
Season 9 - Release Lagfest
Season 9-9.5 - Release Nerf Bat with a Cap
Season 9.5 - Release Repackage Bat. Cryptic will make it that you have to re-buy ships you already brought. New ships with fused weapons.
If someone does the Doff missions, they will realize some of the mission requires resources and DOFF's to make gear. All Cryptic is doing is now giving it a shiny new UI and adding more options of gear. Noted, since to get minerals and stuff, you have to explore. Oh. The exploration aspect is laughable. Although it's Star Trek Online, and Exploration should be a major part of the game. Yes. Star Trek = Exploration + any other fighting in the process
Still there is no ETA on the secondary deflectors, which they announced a while ago. Then this new blog note #24 pretty much says nothing.
I think Cryptic is doing a awesome job.
That sounds a bit familiar. For a long time, I played STO intensively. Then I started playing less. PvP provided me a surprising amount of fun, but the fun lessened the more I understood the game and all the balance issues - issues that were only added on with new additions.
So I basically stopped playing. It wasn't even a concious choice. I just stopped coming back and doing other stuff.
Then, a few months ago, I came back, started playing again, and was having fun "grinding" my reputations, playing content that was added in the mean time. I wouldn't be surprised if I stopped playing soon, too, and focus on something else again, and come back again eventually.
It's okay. And you're probably right this is a good reason why PWE created Arc. It encourages people to try others of their games when they get tired of the current one.
Well I do hear you on the stupidity of the MMO Trinity. It is the deformed child of the classic system made to try and fit a much more simplistic game model that is less about problem solving and fully utilizing your party and more about dishing out the most damage possible while staying alive...
I do feel the pain of the dislogic of it all because in PvP for instance a big tanky cruiser is the last thing I am going to bother wasting my time with when the Science ships and Escorts are squishier and far more important. Yet with the right skills the same Cruiser that can barely kill a single probe in Khitomer may be able to take aggro over the Science ships and Escorts which is stupid.
What is worse though is that a LOT of MMO creators take this problem and make it WORSE; which is quite the feat. They make the Healer and the Damage Dealer take all sorts of aggro making the job of the tank so much harder. It begs the question "Why can't the Damage Dealer also be the one who tanks?". If you are going to make the enemy largely respond to heals and damage then do not gimp your Tank's ability to deal damage. That is just even more idiotic.
Going back to good ol' PnP for a moment: Your Warrior is both Tank AND Damage Dealer. It is his sole purpose to kill the big scary physical threat that get in your way. Now in that system killing everything in sight is not the goal nor the main focus but there will be obstacles of that nature to overcome. The Mage and or Cleric should not take Aggro because the Warrior would be right up in the face of his foe making himself impossible to ignore. Are you going to attack the guy in the white robes over there who is not doing anything to you or the guy right infront of you trying to rip you a few new ones with his weapons?
So yeah I feel you VD, I really do. I am glad STO offers us the ability to at least TRIBBLE up the MMO trinity via specialization, ship vs. captain, and various tactics. However, it is a shame it cannot provide more of the classic mechanics, rich problem solving, and non-pure damage dishing focus.
A nice example of one of STO's better attempts is in Temporal Ambassador where you must choose which of your provided NPC's should do what task. Each is better at certain tasks and can do them more quickly. THAT is a lot more like the old style. It is a very limited inclusion but at least it is a valid attempt. Hint Hint Cryptic.
LOL... wonderful...
*still eating popcorn*