Yes there are fleets out there that base on FAW. near end of my last video in signature.
There they were using Galaxy-x +scimifaw, but they use full scimifaw mostly.
OK, checked out your video, are you referring to the Disorderly Conduct guys?
Yep, they are mostly DPS channel guys, i played most PvE content with them, some PvP as well.
Probably Edna refers to them in that post.
People also tend to compare apples to oranges,
generally, the dps channel people are not worse or better than other pugs. When they fly as a team however, it is very likely that they are gonna beat random pugs. But the emphasis there must be put on team. Judging the state of balance by the outcome of "premade vs. pug" matches, that is comparing apples to oranges.
A better comparison would be to look at how FAW-premades fare against some of the other premades-types out there, and one will notice, 3, 4 and even 5-men FAW-teams are performing rather lacklaster. The surprise moment is gone, some people know how to deal with FAW.
The thing with FAW though, and that is what Edna is probably complaining about, in the solo/duo queues, if there is enough accumulation of FAW on one side, and not enough crossheals on the other side, then it's pretty much game over there.
There are at partial solutions to that though, pre-teaming for example to ensure bringing at least some heals.
I haven't seen a full 5-men Disorderly team for quite some time now, do they even have a real, full premade? And considering their background, do they consider themselves as a PvP fleet? I don't know.
Basic beam cruiser damage is a bigger problem than FAW. I dont even bring my beam cruisers into the queue anymore, its just a huge imbalance. Then you get some guys that dont have that kind of personal constraint, I just want to leave the map when I see some of the common names, cause I know they are crutched to the max.
The solution to beam cruisers is to make them move more slowly. They should be big, mean and slow, more about holding territory (dont come near me) instead of charging into furball and clearing it out. Small ships control the engagement, come and go as they choose, but cruisers kill you if you get close to them. When you got one of them that flies at escort speeds, it breaks the combat model completely. Same for carriers (healers), if you can bait an escort to leave their healer the healer should not be able to tag along.
FAW is also a problem, but its secondary. It could be fixed by dividing damage over the number of targets, so that its still useful for clearing spam or for engaging a couple of targets, but not for blasting 5 targets at max damage. Wont happen though, forum rage would be epic.
Nothing has changed, but enough time has passed where you've forgotten how bad it was. I can save you some time if you read the following:
1) You'll patch the game, play with the new toys, start having fun.
2) You'll want the new stuff, you'll buy some dilithium, you'll dominate.
3) You'll want to take your PvP play from the "fun-zone" to competitive play. Something that makes your time and effort feel worth while.
4) You'll discover that there is nothing to make your time and effort feel worthwhile.
5) You'll remember how awful this game is at balancing PvP as you try to make a name for yourself in premade vs premade matches. Frustration will rule the day.
6) With no rewards for your time invested, and no fun to be had at the competitive level, you'll leave the game for the same reasons you did before.
7) Cryptic continues not to care, because you'll probably be back to buy some dilithium once you forget these reasons again in 3-4 months. They can wait.
generally, the dps channel people are not worse or better than other pugs. When they fly as a team however, it is very likely that they are gonna beat random pugs. But the emphasis there must be put on team. Judging the state of balance by the outcome of "premade vs. pug" matches, that is comparing apples to oranges.
A better comparison would be to look at how FAW-premades fare against some of the other premades-types out there, and one will notice, 3, 4 and even 5-men FAW-teams are performing rather lacklaster. The surprise moment is gone, some people know how to deal with FAW.
The thing with FAW though, and that is what Edna is probably complaining about, in the solo/duo queues, if there is enough accumulation of FAW on one side, and not enough crossheals on the other side, then it's pretty much game over there.
There are at partial solutions to that though, pre-teaming for example to ensure bringing at least some heals.
I haven't seen a full 5-men Disorderly team for quite some time now, do they even have a real, full premade? And considering their background, do they consider themselves as a PvP fleet? I don't know.
But what I do know is, they explode very nicely!
it had been a wile, but i went up against some DPS heroes the other day. non of the pugs i was in could get close enough to their wall of FAW to pop their fragile scimitar builds, my poor vaper didn't last more then 3 seconds, but it was enough to get 2 or 3 kills. the C&H was a bit different, though this time there was actually a full 5 of them. managed to get 2 of their scims to split off from their FAW ball and chase me, and i managed to kill them both with my single cannon d'deridex thank you valdor console, and your proc a second with that many individual hits. and TBR pull, so those singles weren't dealing with range hurting their numbers. there's more to pvp then just how high you can crank dps, i didn't see them again after that.
FAW is a pug thing. You may have a point by saying that you personally don't have much fun anymore when pugging, but thats about it, no single player speaks for the rest of PvP'ers, some are still enjoying it, some don't.
There ARE PvP fleets playing, and to my knowledge none of those fleets are using FAW. Why should they, there are stronger playstyle options available. The other day there has been a tournament, and none of the teams I played against based their strategy on FAW, heck I don't even recall seeing FAW at all in our matches.
You say "A fleet that faws all day can't be a pvp fleet", seriously what fleet would that be, whats their name? If there are indeed PvP fleets playing FAW spam, they must suck so hard that I didn't even have recognize them as a premade.
Now let's say, if you pug alone, and by chance you have been pitted against 5 FAW tac cruisers, well of course, without crosshealing it will get tough and most likely the tac cruisers will win. But if you're in a team with at least two competent pug healers, then it may turn out differently.
I wouldn't mind if they took out FAW completly out of the game, it would definitelly increase the skill requirements for players wanting to participate in PvP, but Cryptic has also think about the noobs, they want their fun too. As long as 1 or 2 healers can nullify any FAW spam by noobs, I have no problems.
What you call "pvp fleets" have people who faw all day.As I said fawing is also used by pve people who don't call their fleets pvp fleets.If you want names list all fleets in game.
The majority is what people call pugs not premades.You barely find 10 people for a match so be sure premades ,like good game design, is really really rare.
I want to see how will you find 2 healers when the healers(aka cruisers from the original game design) faw in all directions.
Yep, they are mostly DPS channel guys, i played most PvE content with them, some PvP as well.
Probably Edna refers to them in that post.
No ,Im talking about all fleets ...you will find at least one or two little fawers in every "pvp" fleet.Also Im pretty sure all who "play" pvp have a faw a2b kirk ship.
If you build a beamboat for enormous DPS, you will do enormous DPS everywhere you take it (relatively). EG, a cruiser that can flatten a tac cube in seconds will do the same thing to player ships (relatively). In my experience, my beam cruisers do monster damage while soaking it up, even without using FAW at all. I find the same thing true for most of the killer cruisers in the queues, they dont even FAW.
Most beam cruisers are low-threat, because they die faster than they can do any damage. Its like, most FBP boats are low-threat because they arent really spec'd into it and they dont hurt enough when you shoot them to make you stop shooting them. But when you run across somebody who has fully spec'd into it, scary stuff. Beams are the same way, if you meet somebody who has put a lot of effort into buffing damage, and they are also able to sponge it up, they will win every encounter. FAW is not needed to do it either.
What you call "pvp fleets" have people who faw all day. [...] No ,Im talking about all fleets ...you will find at least one or two little fawers in every "pvp" fleet.
I don't know but I'm getting the feeling we are diving down to silly territory now...
Might wanna check my, Mira's, Yoda's and Pax' YouTube channel and count how much FAW you'll find has been used by us.
As an example, a fleet with about 100 active PvE'ers and roughly 30 active PvP'ers, you'll of course find at least one or two people using FAW here and there (maybe even more :P). Doesn't make them an "amoral" fleet nor really diminishes their standing as a PvP fleet...
I don't know but I'm getting the feeling we are diving down to silly territory now...
Might wanna check my, Mira's, Yoda's and Pax' YouTube channel and count how much FAW you'll find has been used by us.
As an example, a fleet with about 100 active PvE'ers and roughly 30 active PvP'ers, you'll of course find at least one or two people using FAW here and there (maybe even more :P). Doesn't make them an "amoral" fleet nor really diminishes their standing as a PvP fleet...
Teamwork bro. Teamwork utterly destroys FAW.
What i see in queues is 100% pve bs .If you call that pvp fleets I call it pve fleets ....that is what I see so I can't call it any other way.
Faw needs no teamwork so why is required teamwork to defeat something that needs no teamwork?
What i see in queues is 100% pve bs .If you call that pvp fleets I call it pve fleets ....that is what I see so I can't call it any other way.
Faw needs no teamwork so why is required teamwork to defeat something that needs no teamwork?
Y'know Edna, you could remove 'FAW' from your post and replace it with any other easy done, 'cheap' tactic over the four years of this game's life, and the meaning would be the same. It's just a flavor-of-the-month thing.
"'TIF' needs no teamwork, so why is required teamwork to defeat something that needs no teamwork?"
See? TIF, was and really still is, an easily spammed, cheap tactic (entirely an opinion of course) that can require teamwork to be able to counter it.
Point is that this isn't anything new, and that teamwork can overcome any strategy, given enough time. There will ALWAYS be something that is cheap and easily done in PvP, FAW is just the current iteration of it.
I remain empathetic to the concerns of my community, but do me a favor and lay off the god damn name calling and petty remarks. It will get you nowhere.
I must admit, respect points to Trendy for laying down the law like that.
a single FAW boat is not scary in the least, you need multiple in range of you before you are in danger. team work with FAW is as simple as having at least 2 other FAW boats on your team, and making sure you all hit the same target.
a single FAW boat is not scary in the least, you need multiple in range of you before you are in danger. team work with FAW is as simple as having at least 2 other FAW boats on your team, and making sure you all hit the same target.
you see you don't need a premade group to get a full team of faw ships.Since almost everyone has that (its not because thats broken ,its because it requires skill to play it :rolleyes: ) chances are you will get a full team with faw in pugs.
Y'know Edna, you could remove 'FAW' from your post and replace it with any other easy done, 'cheap' tactic over the four years of this game's life, and the meaning would be the same. It's just a flavor-of-the-month thing.
"'TIF' needs no teamwork, so why is required teamwork to defeat something that needs no teamwork?"
See? TIF, was and really still is, an easily spammed, cheap tactic (entirely an opinion of course) that can require teamwork to be able to counter it.
Point is that this isn't anything new, and that teamwork can overcome any strategy, given enough time. There will ALWAYS be something that is cheap and easily done in PvP, FAW is just the current iteration of it.
i said what people use in queue and the majority is not tif .Thats not current iteration ....this bs is from at least season 8 .
Comments
OK, checked out your video, are you referring to the Disorderly Conduct guys?
Yep, they are mostly DPS channel guys, i played most PvE content with them, some PvP as well.
Probably Edna refers to them in that post.
Super SpecialStar Trek Online Review
SpecialTemporal PUG 100K DPS Build
We are Travelers
People also tend to compare apples to oranges,
generally, the dps channel people are not worse or better than other pugs. When they fly as a team however, it is very likely that they are gonna beat random pugs. But the emphasis there must be put on team. Judging the state of balance by the outcome of "premade vs. pug" matches, that is comparing apples to oranges.
A better comparison would be to look at how FAW-premades fare against some of the other premades-types out there, and one will notice, 3, 4 and even 5-men FAW-teams are performing rather lacklaster. The surprise moment is gone, some people know how to deal with FAW.
The thing with FAW though, and that is what Edna is probably complaining about, in the solo/duo queues, if there is enough accumulation of FAW on one side, and not enough crossheals on the other side, then it's pretty much game over there.
There are at partial solutions to that though, pre-teaming for example to ensure bringing at least some heals.
I haven't seen a full 5-men Disorderly team for quite some time now, do they even have a real, full premade? And considering their background, do they consider themselves as a PvP fleet? I don't know.
But what I do know is, they explode very nicely!
The solution to beam cruisers is to make them move more slowly. They should be big, mean and slow, more about holding territory (dont come near me) instead of charging into furball and clearing it out. Small ships control the engagement, come and go as they choose, but cruisers kill you if you get close to them. When you got one of them that flies at escort speeds, it breaks the combat model completely. Same for carriers (healers), if you can bait an escort to leave their healer the healer should not be able to tag along.
FAW is also a problem, but its secondary. It could be fixed by dividing damage over the number of targets, so that its still useful for clearing spam or for engaging a couple of targets, but not for blasting 5 targets at max damage. Wont happen though, forum rage would be epic.
Er, how so?
Nice to see you again.. and ofcourse.. welcome back old friend.
greetings
PS. Mouse with one button.. :eek:
*** R.I.P. ***
1) You'll patch the game, play with the new toys, start having fun.
2) You'll want the new stuff, you'll buy some dilithium, you'll dominate.
3) You'll want to take your PvP play from the "fun-zone" to competitive play. Something that makes your time and effort feel worth while.
4) You'll discover that there is nothing to make your time and effort feel worthwhile.
5) You'll remember how awful this game is at balancing PvP as you try to make a name for yourself in premade vs premade matches. Frustration will rule the day.
6) With no rewards for your time invested, and no fun to be had at the competitive level, you'll leave the game for the same reasons you did before.
7) Cryptic continues not to care, because you'll probably be back to buy some dilithium once you forget these reasons again in 3-4 months. They can wait.
Lag Industries STO/TOR Guild
it had been a wile, but i went up against some DPS heroes the other day. non of the pugs i was in could get close enough to their wall of FAW to pop their fragile scimitar builds, my poor vaper didn't last more then 3 seconds, but it was enough to get 2 or 3 kills. the C&H was a bit different, though this time there was actually a full 5 of them. managed to get 2 of their scims to split off from their FAW ball and chase me, and i managed to kill them both with my single cannon d'deridex
What you call "pvp fleets" have people who faw all day.As I said fawing is also used by pve people who don't call their fleets pvp fleets.If you want names list all fleets in game.
The majority is what people call pugs not premades.You barely find 10 people for a match so be sure premades ,like good game design, is really really rare.
I want to see how will you find 2 healers when the healers(aka cruisers from the original game design) faw in all directions.
No ,Im talking about all fleets ...you will find at least one or two little fawers in every "pvp" fleet.Also Im pretty sure all who "play" pvp have a faw a2b kirk ship.
DBB (BO)
DHCs
DCs
Mines
Cannons
Arrays
Turrets*
Would be the order of things I feel threatened by...
*Not sure I've ever actually been killed by somebody running Turrets, but knowing me - I probably have been.
I don't know but I'm getting the feeling we are diving down to silly territory now...
Might wanna check my, Mira's, Yoda's and Pax' YouTube channel and count how much FAW you'll find has been used by us.
As an example, a fleet with about 100 active PvE'ers and roughly 30 active PvP'ers, you'll of course find at least one or two people using FAW here and there (maybe even more :P). Doesn't make them an "amoral" fleet nor really diminishes their standing as a PvP fleet...
Teamwork bro. Teamwork utterly destroys FAW.
What i see in queues is 100% pve bs .If you call that pvp fleets I call it pve fleets ....that is what I see so I can't call it any other way.
Faw needs no teamwork so why is required teamwork to defeat something that needs no teamwork?
Y'know Edna, you could remove 'FAW' from your post and replace it with any other easy done, 'cheap' tactic over the four years of this game's life, and the meaning would be the same. It's just a flavor-of-the-month thing.
"'TIF' needs no teamwork, so why is required teamwork to defeat something that needs no teamwork?"
See? TIF, was and really still is, an easily spammed, cheap tactic (entirely an opinion of course) that can require teamwork to be able to counter it.
Point is that this isn't anything new, and that teamwork can overcome any strategy, given enough time. There will ALWAYS be something that is cheap and easily done in PvP, FAW is just the current iteration of it.
you see you don't need a premade group to get a full team of faw ships.Since almost everyone has that (its not because thats broken ,its because it requires skill to play it :rolleyes: ) chances are you will get a full team with faw in pugs.
i said what people use in queue and the majority is not tif .Thats not current iteration ....this bs is from at least season 8 .