Separation pets need a UI

angrytarg · June 2014

Seriously. The fun in having a separatable ship is not to have one or two uncontrollable, weak combat pets without any singificant use whatsoever. The fun comes from the thought of being in two places at the same time or getting some significant support for the health points one sacrifices.

Let's take a look at the Galaxy saucer. In theory, separation grants you a pet with support abilities and limited firepower. It's support to throw ET on you, placate enemies via antimatter spread. In practice, however, the pet doesn't really do anything. It's slow, uncontrollable, fires it's antimatter spread randomly (9 out of 10 times when no enemy is in range) and I never saw it healing either itself or me/my allies. Runabout shuttle pets are more useful.

I'd like (like many others) a UI for the saucer. Intercept, attack, defend. Also, It woulb be great to have control over it's abilities (manually and rihgt-click automatic). And further, it would really help when the saucer would have a tractor beam so you could at least send it to grab a probe or something.

sunfrancks · June 2014

Agreed, would be nice to stop my ships parts from aiming for the nearest warp core explosion!

architect13 · June 2014

What?!? So the pets could be repaired instead of going on cd, that is crazy talk!

talonxv · June 2014

Or better yet the MVAE should get not only pet UI, it should get attack patterns like we saw in the first episode we saw the Prometheus.

So instead of attack, defend, escort, dock, you get MVAE attack patterns, Alpha, Bravo, Charlie and Delta. And they attack your target by default.

Far as the saucer on the Galaxy, yeah they should get pet commands.

rinkster · June 2014

I'd be very happy with just the simple version of this idea.

Give us a UI, probably like the current carrier one, that tells us range and health.

Doesn't need much else, except maybe a recall command.

These pets are not supposed to be the functional equivilant of hangers, so I don't mind not having carrier commands.

But I would like to know, in a big, complicated, flashy firefight if my saucer or Talkyr is still alive, where it is and if its in range of a heal.

rickeyredshirt · June 2014

Yes they do, badly. It's like they aim to fly into explosions.

teluas · June 2014

I think a Carrier console is too much for these. Maybe use the "Special Functions" tray for a small number of commands, all of which are toggleable.

1. Separate/Reattach (frees up the button in the standard tray)
2. Attack My Target (when toggled off, saucer attacks closest target always)
3. Retreat (makes the saucer fly to a distance of 15km at full impulse and maintain that distance until toggled off)
4. Antimatter Spread(Gal)/Gravity Well (Oddy) - only non-toggle ability, saucers will not use these unless commanded through this button. Is grayed out or not present if the proper consoles aren't equipped

The tractor beam ability of the Oddy would still be automated. I just can't think of a good reason why it would need to be added on top of 4 other command functions.

policestate76 · June 2014

Yup, this game seroiusly need something like this. Pets like the saucer of galaxy, haakona , mvae, and others are really useless most of the times, unfortunately. Mostly not only because the stupid AI, but because they dont attack with regular strong weapons. Their weapons are nerfed, so it doesnt matter if a separated pet keeps firing, it will never do enough damage to make a difference.

Other thing is the behaviour of those pets. They stay stucked for a few seconds, they suddenly start to turn around with no control, they are out of range and they dont get closer until a lot of time passed, and a huge etc.

A lot of work will be needed in this, but i really miss it. I love flying separatable ships, like the Haakona, but sometimes, the attack saucer is so useless that is embarrasing. For the other hand, the guardian part is more useful, it heals you, it uses tractor beam, it attacks with attack pattern beta.

I think the 2 important points here are -> they need the same damage as your main ship, and they need better AI. Having a ship that can use other part of the ship as another ship should be translated into 2 ships, not one and a little.. lol.

mycroft1701 · June 2014

Agreed, there's nothing better than having to search the screen to see if my other 2 MVAE vectors are still alive. I like the idea of us being able to control their boff powers too

seriousdave · June 2014

Yes they need something, badly. I really like my Oddy but the only reason to separate the saucer is to get a turn rate boost. The saucer AI itself is dumb to the level of uselessness. If it really targets the same ship as I do, once in a while at least , it does it's best to fly as close as possible as once the target explodes. I know full control would probably be too much and is likely to TRIBBLE off al lot of carrier users but a simple "attack target" and "recall" button would be really appreciated

angrytarg · June 2014

Glad some poeple like the idea

But I really don't get the "carrier owners would be pissed if separation pets would be useful".

I mean every ship that is able to separate is a payship. And right now, the separation does little more than nerf your hitpoints. What's the point? And even if the saucer of the galaxy would really do something useful, that would still not invalidate "carriers". I can't accept the argument that those are supposed to be useful and separation is just a gimmick. This is Star Trek, not BSG. separation is a canon thing, and a specialty of Starfleet - if any, this should be the counter to carriers.

wilbor2 · June 2014

ive stopped using the Separation pets because they go off n do there own thing ive carriers on 3 of my chars n think it would be a good thing to have on Separation pets.

hravik · June 2014

I've stopped using separation as well.

The pet will get lost and end up dead in short order anyway, and even if it lives, it won't do anything terribly useful. The set bonus isn't worth the wasted slots, the saucers are brain dead, and any nostalgia/cool factor gets lost when the saucer ends up as a flaming wreck in moments anyway.

It needs something of value to justify its use, and as it is right now, I'm not seeing anything.

diotw · June 2014

Even just a box that showed you its hit points, shields, and distance from you, like the BOFFs on the ground, would be helpful. I lose track of them all the time!

chrishellmax2363 · June 2014

There is a button that recalls it. Its the same button that activates it . If you click it again, the saucer or aquarias comes back. No matter where it is. Ive left it on one side of the map before and travelled to the other side, just click launch/recall and it comes back. Even if you parked next to it, you can see it dissapear and appear to come back while you are in flight.

As for hit points, as it seperates , click on it, on the middle part of your screen it will become the focus of the enemy/friend, you even have a button to press to keep it on the screen, look like a pin.

But i would pay to have better control over it. Or just make me know where it is better. Ui could be simple, nothing special. I think we could have simple commands, like the one we have for shuttles atm, give me an abillity to control its attack patterns, eg , tray 6 will be dedicated to my oddys saucer.

Atm if you are in ground you can activate your boff's powers by putting them on your own personal tray, thus giving you control over when they place their stuff. My borg boff is lazy and she never puts healing/turret together. Why not copy that into a saucer abillity as well. Let me choose a way for the saucer to react in places.

Overall, i am considering removing my aquarias pet from my consoles as i never use it. In elites it dies way too fast and in undine battleground its as useful as a porcupine in a balloon shop.

policestate76 · June 2014

chrishellmax2363 wrote: »

There is a button that recalls it. Its the same button that activates it . If you click it again, the saucer or aquarias comes back. No matter where it is. Ive left it on one side of the map before and travelled to the other side, just click launch/recall and it comes back. .

Funny you said this. I experimented a bug last night with my haakona. I coudnt re call the separated saucer even if i was smashing the skill with my mouse. It will just ignore me. It was the first time it happened to me, but i only hope that this is not a new bug (

seriousdave · June 2014

policestate76 wrote: »

Funny you said this. I experimented a bug last night with my haakona. I coudnt re call the separated saucer even if i was smashing the skill with my mouse. It will just ignore me. It was the first time it happened to me, but i only hope that this is not a new bug (

rekurzion · June 2014

Agreed. I use the tac oddy with the Aquarius and I would love some control. I can't click through enemies because it's set to always attack with no way to call it back. So it will fly of 30m because that was the first tabbed target. It also be nice to have it in defense mode. Don't other hanger pets have these options? Why not just extend them

asches1 · June 2014

Nothing to add: Agreed! Same for Multi-Vec and the Romulan separator

graleron · June 2014

I still use the Aquarius on my Odyssey, and rarely the saucer separation. I've observed a couple of things:

Occasionally, the pet will get into a state where it cannot be launched or recalled. I press the button, it goes through the cycle time, but nothing happens. The only cure is to change maps.
The pet will keep attacking the first enemy you had targeted until you clear your target completely or the target dies.
There are some zones (specifically a couple of the Borg STFs) where the pet AI gets really screwy. For example, the pet deciding to travel 30km away even when current target is cleared.

I will say I would really like a pop-up UI with some basic functions for these, like separate / integrate, a hotbutton to target it (for heals), and perhaps a "switch to my current target" button. Fewer functions than Carrier Commands, as Cryptic has indicated that greater controllability is meant to be a distinctive feature of carriers, but still a distinct quality of life improvement.

adamkafei · June 2014

I agree we need a system by which to control the various pets in the game.

I'm not too sure about having a full UI for them though, I've been having a hard enough time fitting all the things I need for 1 ship on my screen, the last thing I need is to add the elements for X others :P

rinkster · June 2014

adamkafei wrote: »

I agree we need a system by which to control the various pets in the game.

I'm not too sure about having a full UI for them though, I've been having a hard enough time fitting all the things I need for 1 ship on my screen, the last thing I need is to add the elements for X others :P

As said, i'd be happy with a stripped down UI for this sort of pet.

Just something that shows shields/hull strength, range and something I can click on to target it.

No commands, ala hanger decks, required.

crusaders4christ · June 2014

Things is, how does one go about balancing ships with pets, like the Oddy, Prometheus, Galaxy X etc... UI would be helpful for starters, but I would take it further - what about commands like the ones used by Carriers.

sernonserculion · June 2014

Greetings and standing ovations. I bought a Haakona advanced Warbird, and noticed that the support section tend to get stuck in some space snot in Undine Battles, and thus is quite unable to support me. It obviously could use some sort of mechanic to live long enough to merit the console slot space. As opposed to snot space.

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sle1989 · June 2014

Hangars on ships that have them are permanent, therefore it is easy to have a UI attached to them, as the UI is attached to the ship. The problem with the separation pets is that they are typically console based.

This makes programming any UI interface for the pets more difficult. We may not always have the console on the ship, so we won't always need the UI.

I'm not disagreeing that we need pet UI's, I'm just pointing out the difficulty.

jeffel82 · June 2014

graleron wrote: »

Occasionally, the pet will get into a state where it cannot be launched or recalled. I press the button, it goes through the cycle time, but nothing happens. The only cure is to change maps.

The pet will keep attacking the first enemy you had targeted until you clear your target completely or the target dies.

There are some zones (specifically a couple of the Borg STFs) where the pet AI gets really screwy. For example, the pet deciding to travel 30km away even when current target is cleared.

All true.

All frustrating.

mycroft1701 · June 2014

sle1989 wrote: »

Hangars on ships that have them are permanent, therefore it is easy to have a UI attached to them, as the UI is attached to the ship. The problem with the separation pets is that they are typically console based.

This makes programming any UI interface for the pets more difficult. We may not always have the console on the ship, so we won't always need the UI.

I'm not disagreeing that we need pet UI's, I'm just pointing out the difficulty.

Not disagreeing, but surely cryptic could just make that UI element "hide-able" by the player, just like we can with the other UI elements?

ltdata96 · June 2014

+1 for seperation commands

Another thing that really annoys me are the long cooldowns if they die once or you have to recall them for whatever reason.
Also, if it was at 100% hp it goes into full CD after re-docking. Why? You could say for repairing but that only counts if it actually took damage.

So what would i like to see? It would be really nice if the CD of the re-launch ability was based on:
A)the damage the pet has taken
B)your hull repair-skill

Why? I think it would just make a lot more sense and make the whole seperation-pet thing a lot more fun.
If you wish to redock because your saucer had been stuck? NP, just dock it and launch it again.
Your Aquarius has taken only slight damage and engineers say it would be repaired in no time? Great, let's just launch it again. Because why would the repair take as long as if it was completely wrecked?

Just some thoughts out of my confused mind

bobbydazlers · June 2014

I don't know if I would like a UI for space combat pets, I have enough to do controlling my own weapons and such.
I would rather they just had better AI rather then a UI.

rinkster · June 2014

sle1989 wrote: »

Hangars on ships that have them are permanent, therefore it is easy to have a UI attached to them, as the UI is attached to the ship. The problem with the separation pets is that they are typically console based.

This makes programming any UI interface for the pets more difficult. We may not always have the console on the ship, so we won't always need the UI.

I'm not disagreeing that we need pet UI's, I'm just pointing out the difficulty.

Interesting point.

So, why not make it so activating the console in the normal way brings up the UI, from where you do the actual launching/recalling and such.

galanis2814 · June 2014

Personally I think the MVAE should operate differently than the separation powers or the launched auxiliary craft powers.

MVAE should work on a short duration, you select an attack pattern, your ship separates, all pieces gain flanking bonuses for the duration as they attack your target. When the pattern is done, the ship reassembles and you start your cooldown.

Effectively have it so it operates like in the show, a brief maneuver that greatly enhances the combat effectiveness of one ship by allowing it to hit from multiple vectors for a short time.

Separation pets need a UI

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