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  • simeion1simeion1 Member Posts: 898 Arc User
    edited June 2014
    pottsey5g wrote: »
    I did read and learn what you typed and you are still wrong after a reread. You said it’s not P2W unless something comes out your pocket but that is wrong. You can do it for free and it can still be P2W. Just you chose to do it the free way.

    If some players have a disadvantage over people who paid money even if it’s only for a limited time then its P2W. They might not have an advantage over you but they have an advantage over other players due to spending money. Hence its P2W.

    By your terms and definition any new player in sto that is at any level should be able to be any of my level fifty captains at PvP. That is not fair to the player that has been playing a long time. This game is a grind and yes it does have so I win buttons in the game. I had no other advantage that any other captain that did the summer event last year. I just took advantage of grinding longer. Well sir I have to disagree with you interpretation. I earned my title fairly without paying any money.
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  • lordhavelocklordhavelock Member Posts: 2,248 Arc User
    edited June 2014
    I'm 99% OK with the Powerboard Race. I LOVE IT!

    The only things it requires are EFFORT and SKILL.

    The amount of either varies, as do the rewards.

    Anyone who puts in the least of either can still get the minimum "participation" reward (2 or 3 tags?), and after a couple races and a DOff assignment, get their monkey. Done.

    Anyone who puts in more effort upfront can get a faster board. This effort might be grinding for Favors, using EC to buy Favors from the Exchange, or using Lobi to get Favors (and that Lobi may have come from Zen-purchased keys, EC-purchased keys, or any of the several Lobi-events they've had over the last year - again more effort, but possible to have got the Lobi for "free").

    The more skill you have the more you can stay on the track, hug-the-inside on turns, use the "power-up" features in the race that make you go faster (ie like the jumps or the glowing arrows), and grab a better flag at the end. So more skill generally means better rewards.

    People complain about the flags at the end. Personally, I love it! Few things in this game require skill/challenge. I think grabbing the flag does just that. Just like in the Winter Race, I love it when I'm neck'n'neck with someone and we both strive for the 1st Place Flag. Only one is going to get it, or someone can bank off towards the 2nd Place (and that leans towards the less-effor-less-reward side of the scale).

    Sadly, there are people who play STO that feel entitled or otherwise want everything handed to them with no effort or skill. C'mon people... It's a game! PLAY IT!!! :D

    Honestly, my only -1% "complaint" about the surfboards is that there are so few "trick" animations. I was really hoping when I launched off the ramp I could do flips or spins or the like. Nope, just basic jumps (well, you can sort of spin yourself around, but it's not really a special trick animation, it's just turning around). I'm hoping by next year they will add "FX" to this the way they added fancy animations to the ice skating lake in the Winter Event.

    P.S. For those who hate the competition, just give the Event a week or two to die down a bit, and you'll find empty maps where you can race against yourself and win every time. :cool:

    You can find/contact me in game as @PatricianVetinari. Playing STO since Feb 2010.
  • simeion1simeion1 Member Posts: 898 Arc User
    edited June 2014
    Could not agree more with you Lord Havelock. It is a game and not every one should win everything. That is why the old STFs are no longer around. People did not learn and adapt to the mission at hand. During teradome people spammed the f key and made the console part harder than it had to be. And during KA people did not adapt there build to complete the first half of the mission.

    I too wish animations and a finish line not a finish grab a flag was in place. This is bugged. A friend and I complete it first and second. He beat me but I grabbed the flag first. He got a first place reward se how and so did I. We posted the time and lot drop in team chat. That is the only time I have heard of a double winner.
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  • senatorvreenaksenatorvreenak Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited June 2014
    I think the problem is that the game engine at present cannot support a true "finish line" for multiple players, due to the fact that the race and reward system counts as a "mission".
  • captainoblivouscaptainoblivous Member Posts: 2,284 Arc User
    edited June 2014
    *Blahblahblah, typical cryptic apologist/foundry fanatic*

    I think it would have been much more of a test of skill if it were like the winter event pvp race where equipment was all standardised i.e. no one had an innate advantage due to gear (other than the boots). With this surf thing, it's a case of "he who has the superior board wins, unless he is an idiot or is incredibly unlucky".
    The whole thing just smells like a desperate scheme to get us to buy favours with lobi so we can get the best boards "NOW NOW NAO!".

    A pve surfboard race would have been nice. It might have meant that I'd actually get a surf board and use it.
    I need a beer.

  • capemike4capemike4 Member Posts: 394 Arc User
    edited June 2014
    I've watched people win -handily- with the Rental Board, and won a race myself with the 50 Favor(Standard) Board by a good 3 seconds...a little bit of luck helps, and knowing the lines of the course helps, of course...there's only one spot on the course where I even have to consider backing off the throttle, and even then, only for a literal heartbeat.... :)

    It's still a fun diversion, and if I end up with leftover Favors, I'll likely buy a better board, just for showing off, hehe!
    When in doubt...Gravity Well TO THE FACE!! :D
  • erei1erei1 Member Posts: 4,081 Arc User
    edited June 2014
    I played a race earlier, and 2 people had the most expensive board. They went faster than any of us, and were ahead right from the start. Don't tell me it's skill, because it was right from the start, I mean right away, when it's just a line and nothing else.
    Obviously, they won easily, and to be honest, we lost sight of them near the middle of the race. I was 4th, the 3rd was right in front of me were I was able to see him.

    Want to win the race ? Buy the most expensive board, or find a near empty instance.
    Sure some people will claim they won a race using rental etc... but some people are so bad not even the best board can help them.
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  • sunfranckssunfrancks Member Posts: 3,925 Arc User
    edited June 2014
    bitemepwe wrote: »
    I'm indifferent as long as I get my 3 tags for completion.

    2 tags for completion. At least that is what I get for completing it and being out of the top 3..


    Already had abuse from a few people that I "stole" the win from. I hate this system for that very reason. :rolleyes:
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  • lastwolf25lastwolf25 Member Posts: 45 Arc User
    edited June 2014
    simeion1 wrote: »
    Maybe you need to learn or read what I typed. I did not spend any money to get an advantage over another player. I gridded out my board. That sir is not P2W. I had earn my board and my title. Sorry that some players have not done so. But because I worked last year at this years rewards does not mean the mini game is P2W. Every player has the ability to earn bigger and faster boards without spending real life money. This is what is wrong with society toady. People believe that something should be given and not earned. I earned it through a better board that I had saved for with last years winnings. It is the same grind every other player does with out spending lobi to convert. There is no advantage besides time and the grind. Yesterday I did see a fleet mate win a race against someone with better board. He just piloted better.

    I agree with you, took me some time to get my superior board, and I agree it comes with a great speed advantage, but even with my olf green board ( first thing I got this summer event) I beat a lot of superior boards even earned my title before I got the Midnight Marauder board, but now is getting harder, yesterday I found a miniature toon RUNNING without a board faster than us in boards during the race, also guys dropping discoballs all along race track to block LoS or reduce speed during the races
  • metaphorgrandemetaphorgrande Member Posts: 110 Arc User
    edited June 2014
    Please fix the friggin finish line. I am not sure how anybody on the dev team thought this was a good way to end the race. Maybe they can at least explain the decision to us so we can understand why it is the way it is. AWFUL!
  • azniadeetazniadeet Member Posts: 1,871 Arc User
    edited June 2014
    I was racing some guy who had me beat, but he abandoned his board at the finish line, and tried to run up to the flag on foot. I saw this, and knew it was a great opportunity to steal, so I bombed right at the flag and clicked it out from under him... haha.

    When he PM'd me expressing displeasure, I simply replied "You shouldn't have abandoned your board!"

    As far as I'm concerned, it was a head's up move on my part, and if someone else did it to me, it would be good on them.
  • mikoto8472mikoto8472 Member Posts: 607 Arc User
    edited June 2014
    Advice for the Boarder event? Easy, remove the 'capture the flag' thing at the end. Just cross the 'effing finishline.
  • farmallmfarmallm Member Posts: 4,630 Arc User
    edited June 2014
    I did my first race over the weekend. Using the low cost board on favors. I had fun doing it, and it was something different. I didn't win, or place last. But overall it was fun. I will do it again when I get a chance.

    Its about being fun. That is where it counts. I'm glad they offered this new event to Risa. I hope to see more in the future as they expand from it.
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  • prrgg1prrgg1 Member Posts: 30 Arc User
    edited June 2014
    The flags can be a pain, but you can work around them. What really bothers me though is the boost pads and ramps.

    There's a slight cool down for the boost the pads and ramps provide, so if you're in second place right behind the leader, they'll get the boost while you get nothing, causing you to fall further behind. The flags are annoying, the boost pads are just plain BS.

    Either get rid of the cool down on them, or get rid of the boosts all together.
  • lordhavelocklordhavelock Member Posts: 2,248 Arc User
    edited June 2014
    *Blahblahblah, typical cryptic apologist/foundry fanatic*
    Hmm... Never thought of myself as a Cryptic Apologist. :rolleyes: I'm not trying to make amends of Cryptic's design work. I'm only stating my opinion in a feedback thread, that I genuinely like the game play. And I've certainly never supported, much less been fanatical about, the Foundry. Quite the contrary: I've never been a fan, and have openly despised the way Cryptic has, at times of content-drought, tried to pawn-off player-made missions as New Content.
    ...I think it would have been much more of a test of skill if it were like the winter event pvp race where equipment was all standardised i.e. no one had an innate advantage due to gear (other than the boots)...
    Your opinion that you want an even-playing field is valid, and I can see your point. I just do not have a problem with putting effort into getting a better board, the way you do. I think it gives something to work towards and adds variety to the gameplay.

    I'm curious if you feel PvP ship-to-ship combat should be all players playing with the same Common Mk XII weapons and gear, in the same ships?

    Because, frankly, I don't think getting an advantage through a better board is any different than how players put effort into improving their Levels, Skills, Reps, DOffs, Traits, Weapons, Gear, etc. to be competitive in other PvP. Everyone having the same build seems like it would be boring.
    ...The whole thing just smells like a desperate scheme to get us to buy favours with lobi so we can get the best boards "NOW NOW NAO!".
    So what if it is?

    I'm always amused (and somewhat bemused) by those that rag on Cryptic for adding a way for players (who are actually the desperate ones in this scenario, by the way) to spend money. It's not a scheme in a diabolical fashion as you seem to represent. It's an open and advertised business model.

    This game is built around Time = Money. With the exception of some Subscription/LTS-only features, legacy retail/pre-purchase items, and the like, "Everything" in this game is available with Time spent playing the game FOR FREE. If you do not have, or do not want (if, for example, you need something "NAO"), to spend Time, you can spend Money. I think Cryptic, balances the two pretty well. YMMV as to how even you think it's scaled, but what you can't deny is the freedom to CHOOSE to spend the cash or not (or even play the game at all, for that matter). Certainly nothing "scheme-y" about that.

    BTW, for the record: Comprehending how the game worked, on the first day, before I bothered to invest any resources in any non-Superior board, I used the 833 Favors I had saved from last year and a TRIBBLE-ton of EC to buy another 167 Favors (at what I knew would be CRAZILY overpriced amounts, but I excepted that for wanting the best "NAO") and got a Superior Board for my Main character. And yes, I won my first race (and several since). My Alts have the 50-Favor Standard Wood boards. Some have come in first-third on occasion (when there are no higher-ranked boards), but most of the time they don't place, and I'm OK with that. I still enjoy the race-game-play and they've got enough tags-over-time that they have DOff missions in-progress for monkeys.
    A pve surfboard race would have been nice...
    A PvE surfboard race would be neat. I think it would be cool if it were some how a "trick" race - like you got points for how many jumps you do, or if they could make a variety of jumps through certain keystrokes combinations or something, you could get points for those... That would be awesome!

    >shrug< Maybe next year.
    ...It might have meant that I'd actually get a surf board and use it.
    Just curious, have you purchased a favor-surfboard, of any kind?

    You can find/contact me in game as @PatricianVetinari. Playing STO since Feb 2010.
  • farmallmfarmallm Member Posts: 4,630 Arc User
    edited June 2014
    f2pdrakron wrote: »
    Ah but its not now is it?

    This is about a paygate, its not for us to do it because we want to is because we get payed ... lets not try to pretend this is nothing but getting payed.

    Thats why I abhor when people say "its to have fun" when there is a carrot at the end of the stick, its very clear to me that if its "for fun" the carrot would be there, if it is then its about a payment.

    Sure you can have fun in your job but its still work.

    I don't know how you say I didn't have fun. Which I did during the race. I didn't care for the rewards as I can get far more by doing the other events. To me it was just for fun. I didn't get paid for any of it, and didn't do the race to do so. So what reward I got was nice.

    Being totally optional, they didn't dangle a carrot in front of me to get me to do it either. For me it was only just for fun to see what it was like. I thought it was fun and will do it again.

    Lastly I already have the stuff I want from the Summer Event. So now its all fun and RP. Doing the race was part of my RP experience to enjoy the Risa summer fun.
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  • lordhavelocklordhavelock Member Posts: 2,248 Arc User
    edited June 2014
    f2pdrakron wrote: »
    Ah but its not now is it?

    This is about a paygate, its not for us to do it because we want to is because we get payed ... lets not try to pretend this is nothing but getting payed... Sure you can have fun in your job but its still work.
    Speak for yourself, don't include me in your "we" :rolleyes:

    ...I play Star Trek Online as a way to relax and have a good time. When I no longer want to play with this "toy", I move on to something else, like my PS3, Magic cards, or watch TV or BDs, or go for a hike or swim. However my mood strikes.

    Specifically, I participate in the Powerboard races because I enjoy it. I would do them even if they offered no reward. I strive for the greatest reward because for me, in all competition, it's more... rewarding... to win. But I like it, win or lose.

    I build sand castles even though the rewards are basically non-existant.

    I spend time skating round Q's frozen lake just to make fun jumps and animations. And there are literally no rewards in that.

    The fact that there are "carrots" associated with the game do not take away the fun. To me the carrots enhance the fun.
    f2pdrakron wrote: »
    Sure you can have fun in your job but its still work.
    I'm sure there's a famous saying out there to the effect that "if you have fun at/love your job, you'll never work a day in your life." Heh. :P

    You can find/contact me in game as @PatricianVetinari. Playing STO since Feb 2010.
  • farmallmfarmallm Member Posts: 4,630 Arc User
    edited June 2014
    I agree with Lordhavelock.

    I built several castles during the events. It was fun and made good RP. I even rode my power board all around the island and it didn't give me nothing. Mostly it to explore and see what it was like. I heard there is a Volcano on the map. Next time I get on, I will try to find it. For more exploration and having fun. And squeeze some time in for more favors events. So I can get something else or save them for next year's event.

    Its all about having fun. Until then I will be sitting by the beach soaking in the sun on Risa.
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  • lordhavelocklordhavelock Member Posts: 2,248 Arc User
    edited June 2014
    farmallm wrote: »
    ...I heard there is a Volcano on the map. Next time I get on, I will try to find it....
    Just an FYI - While there's an volcano caldera, there's no active volcano. Ie the volcano is dormant, so there's only a sort of "crater" at the top of a mountain.

    Don't mean to spoil it for you, it's still worth visiting (and IIRC there's accolades in the area), but don't be expecting lava or anything like that. ;)

    Have fun exploring!

    :cool:

    You can find/contact me in game as @PatricianVetinari. Playing STO since Feb 2010.
  • farmallmfarmallm Member Posts: 4,630 Arc User
    edited June 2014
    Just an FYI - While there's an volcano caldera, there's no active volcano. Ie the volcano is dormant, so there's only a sort of "crater" at the top of a mountain.

    Don't mean to spoil it for you, it's still worth visiting (and IIRC there's accolades in the area), but don't be expecting lava or anything like that. ;)

    Have fun exploring!

    :cool:

    Sweet it will make it even more fun to look for it. And to see what it look likes. I went into the cave tunnel last time. That was really fun.
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  • thomasp94232thomasp94232 Member Posts: 129 Arc User
    edited June 2014
    Considering this grab the flag bull TRIBBLE has been in place in the winter event for the last two years I don't guess cryptic is going to both getting off their lazy butt and fix it any time before Risa ends, but this finishing mechanic is beyond enraging!

    In chat people have found some work arounds, like jumping off the board or running into the flag and having the flag stop you, but twice now I have went strait though my first place flag only have have some scum bag steal it before I can turn around. The last time it happened I couldn't even get the finish flag, the race didn't actually drop but I still couldn't pick up any flag.

    First and foremost this is Crpytic's fault because they are too lazy to program a finish mechanic that rewards you as you cross though the finish gate. But secondly this is a player problem because people are so damn greedy that given the opportunity they will happily steal from each other. If I come into the finish line in second or third place and I am neck and neck with the person ahead of me I don't slam the F key like a mad man in an effort to steal that person's flag. No, instead I act like a respectable human being and I slow down just a bit so that I can wait for the next place flag to pop up so I can get that. If we showed some simply human decency to each other then this grab the flag mechanic wouldn't be such an issue.

    I've been here since beta
  • wilbor2wilbor2 Member Posts: 1,684 Arc User
    edited June 2014
    Ive missed the flag at the end loads of time it ruins the race for me same as the winter race.
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  • futurepastnowfuturepastnow Member Posts: 3,660 Arc User
    edited June 2014
    Try to find the hatch on the island ;)
  • ryvakenryvaken Member Posts: 57 Arc User
    edited June 2014
    I've played enough races by now to eliminate luck or happenstance from this declaration -- I can match an average racer while using a board one tier slower than that racer's. Against an even tier, I usually lose sight of the pack by the second turn, usually with one person who can match me. I get 1st and 2nd place wins with about equal distribution, lesser victories only when I TRIBBLE up. And I have to TRIBBLE up bad, I once got wedged under a ramp and still got 2nd.

    I have no explanation for my performance. Frankly I don't have enough exposure to most racers to have a clue what they're doing that I'm not, or what I'm doing that they're not. I know I'm not cheating, I know I'm not exploiting a bug. I just race well.
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  • medtac124medtac124 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited June 2014
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  • hyplhypl Member Posts: 3,719 Arc User
    edited June 2014
    Why? Because Cryptic, that's why.
  • nightkennightken Member Posts: 2,824 Arc User
    edited June 2014
    because they hate you and want to make you cry like a little girl


    p.s. I apologize to any little girls reading this

    if I stop posting it doesn't make you right it. just means I don't have enough rum to continue interacting with you.
  • drogyn1701drogyn1701 Member Posts: 3,606 Media Corps
    edited June 2014
    As I understand it, and to be perfectly honest this may not be accurate, they've done it this way because - due to the vagaries of connecting people and servers across nearly every continent - what you see on your screen and what the server sees aren't necessarily the same thing. You may think you're leading the race, but you might be lagging a bit and according to the server, someone else is in the lead. Having the interact flag prevents a situation where you think you've crossed the line first but the game awards first place to someone else. Obviously the interact has its own issues, but there is a reason it's there.
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  • conundrumnsaconundrumnsa Member Posts: 705 Arc User
    edited June 2014
    So in reality the whole race is pointless and they really just need a click the flag contest.


    Because we all know that you can be in first place by a mile but make a miss click and miss the flag and now you don't even place.


    Stupid mechanic is stupid.
  • spaceeagle20spaceeagle20 Member Posts: 971 Arc User
    edited June 2014
    Well, don't run then...
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