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Dual cannons and dual heavy cannons: firing arcs?
newplayerguy7
Member Posts: 593 Arc User
We all know that Dual Heavy Cannons are the way to go if you are going to mount them at all. They out-perform plain Dual Cannons in every way - making Dual Cannons kinda redundant in the game as a weapons system.
The biggest draw back to these types of cannons (aside from their poor long range DPS ratio) is their very limited firing arcs. This makes sense as they are very powerful weapons and when used right, are absolutely devastating - they should have a counter-point to all that.
That said, why not make the lowly Dual Cannon more viable by increasing it's firing arc? Single Cannons have a lower DPS but have a nice 180 degree arc, making them actually useful. Dual Cannons and Dual Heavy Cannons both have the very limited 45 degree arc. How about giving plain Dual Cannons a 90 degree arc, allowing them more flexability than Heavies, thus being a nice compromise between the Single Cannons and Dual Heavies? They would certainly see more use in the game this way.
Thoughts?
The biggest draw back to these types of cannons (aside from their poor long range DPS ratio) is their very limited firing arcs. This makes sense as they are very powerful weapons and when used right, are absolutely devastating - they should have a counter-point to all that.
That said, why not make the lowly Dual Cannon more viable by increasing it's firing arc? Single Cannons have a lower DPS but have a nice 180 degree arc, making them actually useful. Dual Cannons and Dual Heavy Cannons both have the very limited 45 degree arc. How about giving plain Dual Cannons a 90 degree arc, allowing them more flexability than Heavies, thus being a nice compromise between the Single Cannons and Dual Heavies? They would certainly see more use in the game this way.
Thoughts?
Post edited by newplayerguy7 on
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I've though about this myself, in their current state dual cannons are effectively useless since Dual Heavy cannons outperform them in almost every way. The only upside is that they have a faster fire rate, personally I feel Cryptic should increase the firing arc to 180 degrees as an escort alternative to single cannons either that or increase their damage per volley so they can compete with their dual heavy counterparts.
I'd like to be able to use Dual cannons since they don't share the same hard points as dual beam banks which has always bothered me.
I think they should have wider arcs than dual heavies.
THOUGH to make single cannons more viable they could push their firing arcs to 250 and allow us to put them on rear slots.
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http://forum.arcgames.com/startrekonline/discussion/1145998/star-trek-battles-channel-got-canon/p1
As a Escort user, with a pure cannon/turret setup, I strongly recommend ignoring any such ideas as the OP.
Why? Because I've been nerfed because of people with this kinds of ideas before... And I really don't want to have to re-tweak my build AGAIN.
CRUISERS NEED A 206% HULL BUFF
/sarcasm off
My initial suggestion was 70~ degrees, because cannons typically have a tighter firing arc than beams(DBBs are 90).
Edit: As for the fire rate, it's actually a disadvantage compared to Dual Heavy Cannons. The proc rate is normalized and DCs lose more power from the constant energy drains throughout its firing cycle than DHCs do(which translates to a very noticeable difference in overall damage).
That is practically everything that can mount Dual / Dual Heavy Cannons turns well enough that a 90 degree firing arc is nothing special.
Even with a 90 degree arc, why would my Escort, Battlecruiser use a 90 degree arc Dual Cannon when I can turn well enough to make Dual Heavies effective?
For an Escort, Destroyer, or Raider, DHC all the way even with a 90 degree arc Dual Cannon.
Even for the slowest turning Battlecruisers with 9 turn rate, the Dual Heavy Cannons are still the clear superior choice, because 9 turn rate is still more than enough when a build is finalized (Skills in the right skillboxes, extra power from Plasmonic Leech / MACO Shields or Adapted KHG Shields, Engineer Captain bonuses and abilities, etc).
Torps have an arc of 90 degrees (like Dual beam banks).
And at 250, SCs would have a wider arc than beams (240 degrees).
Toi'Va, Ti'vath, Toivia, Ty'Vris, Tia Vex, Toi'Virth: Add Tier 6 KDF Carrier and Raider.
Tae'Va, T'Vaya, To'Var, Tevra, T'Vira, To'Vrak: Give us Asylums for Romulans.
Don't make ARC mandatory! Keep it optional only!
Umm they don't really...the only advantages they have over DHC's if I recall is with use of either the 2 piece omega set or with DEM.
Sure they have a faster rate of fire but they do less damage per bolt,they drain more energy with the quicker fire, both have the same proc rate (Which is odd to me), and DHC's have a extra crit damage mod (Which is even odder to me).
Care to tell me where any real advantage is?
But how many people rely on that advantage? It doesn't seem enough from my experience, so you need to give a tiny buff that brings it the point where DHCs and DCs seem equally attractive alternatives on the kind of ships that can use them.
Maybe 90° would be too much - maybe it could be 60°. Or it should be something entirely different, I don't know.
I mean logically since people seem to think DC's are so powerful, since everyone uses DHC's they must be way op...so they should be nerfed so we don't risk buffing DCs!
Easy: If cryptic starts increasing the Arc, you can bet they will be decreasing the damage to avoid PvP'ers crying nerf... Think of it as pre-emptive nerfing.
And this
The only thing better with the DC is the HV prices. Almost nobody that know a bit about the game use them.
Why not increase the number of per pulse effects/procs? Not only would it be a boost to DCs, but also Single Cannons and even Turrets.
Not everything is proc per cycle...there are per pulse effects/procs as well.
The Dual Cannons fire slower than Dual Heavy Cannons. At least they do on all of my toons. My DHCs fire four quick burst, but the DCs will fire two shots of two each. They come off of cool down at the same time, and are ready to fire their first shots again.
For that reason, they each can give you an advantage. If you think about it, a beam boat not using A2B can keep shields down because of it's near constant fire hitting the enemy. DHCs can't do this because they fire in burst. They will take shields down fast, and hit the hull quick. However, the shields can start coming up between shots fired. This is where DCs can be added to help.
Since the DCs fire in two separate blasts, this will let them hit their first hit with the DHCs, and another blast comes right after that to hit either hull again, or the shields as they start coming back up. If it can hit the shields with enough damage, it can drop them back down so that the next volley of DHCs can have a chance of hitting the hull again directly.
I use to use all DHCs, and even spent time testing different builds. What I have found is that without being able to use A2B, I can do more damage with a combination of DHCs, and DCs. On an escort that has 4 fore weapons, I use 2, or 3 DHCs, and 1 DC. Or I will use 2 of each. The 3:1 id better though.
With an A2B build I can put 2 DBB on the front with FAW, and one DC, and one DHC using CRF. This will help me do more damage constantly, and well as having good spike damage. The all DHC builds are better with spike damage, however, there is so much down time for the skills that are used for spike damage. I can loose very little spike damage, yet still have higher long term damage. Pretty much, anything I can kill with the higher spike damage, I can still kill with this spike damage. However, if it is something that I can't take down in the first alpha strike, then this will kill it faster.
The weapon dps cant be changed. DC basically has the same dps as DHC.
You're killing me, Smalls...
The numbers on the tooltip are not everything.
When the term "fire rate" is used in STO, what does it mean? I always thought it meant how fast it fires shot in a single activation. If so, then the DHCs will fire 4 shots in one quick burst. However, the DCs fire 2 different burst with 2 shots in each.
If it is looked at like a real gun, firing 4 shots in a quick burst is a faster fire rate than two separate burst that fire only 2 shots each. And, since they will both come off cool down at the same time, they can fire together again. So how is the fire rate of the DC faster than the DHCs?
I do sometimes on my avenger although I'm not a hardcore min/max pvper.
I use one set of dual cannons alongside my four heavy cannons simply to add a little extra pressure damage. On rapid fire it more or less meant that there was still damage being output in between the heavy cannon cycles. It meant enemies had less breathing room.
Whether or not it was that effective is up for debate but I liked it. *shrugs*